Xtreme dmz

Ohsobuttery

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What's happenin gents!

I posted a couple months back about running a dmz/msten stack and was hoping to record a full log but some occupational things changed and wasn't around any Internet for a while.
(#Africawifiproblems)
All in all, I got some tremendous gains in both strength and size. I started out the cycle at 6'2 189lbs...and after the cycle & pct I was 210lbs.
All lifts went up a drastic amount but my cardio endurance TANKED!
Also, something that really concerned me was my abilities in the bedroom...it took ALOT to get going right before PCT. **** freaked me out.... anywho everything bounced back just fine during pct and it's been about 2 months since the cycle.

I'm thinking about running another cycle of DMZ standalone now...but I really need some input to help me choose what PCT to go with and on-cycle support.

Here are my thoughts, and if anyone has any better suggestions please do share!

Week 1-4: 32mg/day xtreme dmz
Week 1-8: Rise and Swell
Week 1-8: Blockade
Week 5-8: Apex Male
Week 5-8: Estrogenex 2.0
Week 5-8: Post Cycle 3x
Week 5-8: Reduce XT

If I can get my hands on any Nolvadex, should I replace any of these with it? If so, what sort of dosage/duration?
Also, I really need to keep my sex drive/ability good to go while on-cycle and after...

Any help is seriously appeciated gents!!

Semper
 
drock77

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The OTC PCT is ok but nolvadex is a must and just in case I would have a stronger AI like Aromasin
 
Ohsobuttery

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Ok that's kinda what I was thinking about the nolva...though Ive never ran it...maybe that was my missing ingredient the last couple times!

Would you think that 20mg/day throughout the whole 8 week cycle would be sufficient? Also, regarding the Aromasin, is it a better fit than Estrogenex 2nd gen(without 6-bromo)? From what I've read, DMZ doesn't aromatize being a "dry" compound... could be inaccurate though
 
booneman77

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Ok that's kinda what I was thinking about the nolva...though Ive never ran it...maybe that was my missing ingredient the last couple times!

Would you think that 20mg/day throughout the whole 8 week cycle would be sufficient? Also, regarding the Aromasin, is it a better fit than Estrogenex 2nd gen(without 6-bromo)? From what I've read, DMZ doesn't aromatize being a "dry" compound... could be inaccurate though
What????

First off, you should absolutely NOT run dmz without a serm for pct. no way. Dmz is a harsh compound and will have you thoroughly suppressed. OTC pct will not cut it.

Second, you're not going to run Nolva during your cycle! It's for pct. post. Cycle. Therapy.

You run it something like 20/20/10/10 the four weeks AFTER your cycle.

Not trying to be hash, just honest here... And Honestly it doesn't seem like you're very well informed on these compounds and how to use them properly. I think you seriously need to learn a bit more before you jump into this and make a mistake that you could potentially regret for the rest of your life.
 
booneman77

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The OTC PCT is ok but nolvadex is a must and just in case I would have a stronger AI like Aromasin
Just no. OTC pct is not even in the same ballpark as Nolva. This is horrible horrible advice.

I think I know how you meant this but the wording makes it sound like OTC is ok to use solo. It's ok to support the serm, not solo.
 
drock77

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booneman77* is right I'm about to run DMZ and I will log it
 
DonnieM

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+1 on what booneman77 said about the importance of a serm for pct (nolva, clomid).
Also Im not very familiar with the other supps you listed, support for libido and estro are good, but more crucial I think the liver/heart support is. Something with NAC and Tudca.
 
unreal89

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Yes DMZ can **** u up if not careful mark my words..
 
Ohsobuttery

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Not taking it harsh at all brother! If I had the knowledge, I'd react the same way to someone in my situation.

I've always thought and read that Nolvadex would be optimum way to go, its just that I haven't a clue where to source it outside of going through research chemical suppliers, and that route makes me pretty darn weary about the purity and quality since I'd be a first-time purchaser. So I was trying to make the most complete OTC pct and on-cycle therapy possible... but I'm definitely seeing the big risk of doing that.

Also, the thing that gave me the idea of running tamoxifen through the whole cycle was this thread that I came across when I searched for on-cycle therapy to keep natural test being produced to avoid sexual shutdown while on. Every other thread I've read said it was used only in pct just like you have said. I take that as sound advice!

Regarding Liver and heart support, the NAC is covered by Blockade along with nearly everything else besides TUDCA which I now realize I should purchase separately.

Either way I'd really like to get all of my info and a bulletproof cycle plan before ordering anything! I really appreciate the criticism so-far gents.
Definitely eager and willing to learn!
 
booneman77

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Not taking it harsh at all brother! If I had the knowledge, I'd react the same way to someone in my situation.

I've always thought and read that Nolvadex would be optimum way to go, its just that I haven't a clue where to source it outside of going through research chemical suppliers, and that route makes me pretty darn weary about the purity and quality since I'd be a first-time purchaser. So I was trying to make the most complete OTC pct and on-cycle therapy possible... but I'm definitely seeing the big risk of doing that.

Also, the thing that gave me the idea of running tamoxifen through the whole cycle was this thread that I came across when I searched for on-cycle therapy to keep natural test being produced to avoid sexual shutdown while on. Every other thread I've read said it was used only in pct just like you have said. I take that as sound advice!

Regarding Liver and heart support, the NAC is covered by Blockade along with nearly everything else besides TUDCA which I now realize I should purchase separately.

Either way I'd really like to get all of my info and a bulletproof cycle plan before ordering anything! I really appreciate the criticism so-far gents.
Definitely eager and willing to learn!
Good man. Glad to see someone who actually takes advice when they ask for it! Its refreshing ha. Here's the rest of my thoughts, now that we've covered the SERM portion ;)

TUDCA is definitely a must-have with a liver toxic compound like dmz. 500mg/day is what I would do. CEL Tudca is proabably the cheapest around

Rise and swell is a waste on cycle. No natty test booster will help at all. Also, it has yohimbe in it which is a powerful stim and could jack your bp through the roof (which it may already be high from the cycle alone) - definitely a no go. Save it for pct if you want.

Choose either RnS or Apex male in pct. they have a couple of the same ingredients and theres no benefit to overlapping them.

For pct, obviously a SERM is a must. For me personally, reduce xt is also as I have horible cortisol issues coming off so youre good there. I like to run it for 8 weeks tho (4 past my serm) - personal preference. A natty test booster is fine (pick one of the two you have). Also for me personally, I'm a big fan of adding as many natural anabolic type compounds as funds will allow (and that don't overlap) - my typical pct consists of anabeta elite and xgels (they have synergy with eachother), sometimes an epicatechin product, and I often suggest soy lecithin granules (phosphaditic acid) both for the benefits it has solo, as well as the emulsification help for the xgels (arachidonic acid).
 
Ohsobuttery

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hell yea. thanks man thats why I'm on here! Trying to make safest and most efficient gains possible.

I'm gonna research those PCT products and see what they're all about.

I can definitely see how over-lapping the test boosters is redundant.
 
booneman77

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hell yea. thanks man thats why I'm on here! Trying to make safest and most efficient gains possible.

I'm gonna research those PCT products and see what they're all about.

I can definitely see how over-lapping the test boosters is redundant.
outside of a test booster and something like reduce xt, anything else I listed is just a natty anabolic... something non-hormonal that can help build (or in pct case, maintain) muscle. I like them for two main reasons - 1) they help maintain the gains you made on cycle while your hormones are recovering. 2) they give me a nice mental edge knowing that I'm adding things that will give me better pumps, nutrient partitioning and delivery, etc... they can give the "almost" "on" type feeling that otherwise is dead to the world during pct.
 
Ohsobuttery

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Ok so through this info, I've refined my cycle quite a bit.

Week 1-4: Xtreme DMZ 32mg/day
Week 1-8: Blockade (assault labs) cycle support
Week 1-8: Tudca 500mg/day
Week 5-6: Exemestane 25mg/day
Week 5-8: Tamoxifen 20/20/10/10
Week 5-8: Apex Male
Week 5-8: Reduce XT

Is it looking a bit more complete?
 
unreal89

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Apex male worked great for me in pct kept all my strength
 
booneman77

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No need to run exem that high (or at all). I would have it on hand but with a dry compound like dmz there's no need. It'll just crush your e. If you want to run it for the slight boost it could provide in helping natty t, run it at half that dose at most.
 
highlander31

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Ok so through this info, I've refined my cycle quite a bit.

Week 1-4: Xtreme DMZ 32mg/day
Week 1-8: Blockade (assault labs) cycle support
Week 1-8: Tudca 500mg/day
Week 7-10: Exemestane 12.5mg tapering off
Week 5-8: Tamoxifen 20/20/10/10
Week 5-8: Apex Male
Week 7-10: Reduce XT
Updated with what I think is a better option with what youve provided you will be running. If you are only running the 4 weeks of Reduce XT, starting 2 weeks into PCT is a better option as cort levels sort of have a lag time to spike after cycle. Also, you probably wont need the AI on cycle, you might, who knows, but I always like to add it to PCT and feel it out based on levels of lethargy and joints/dryness. But again, I would add it in starting your 3rd week of PCT and running it for 2 weeks after your SERM, tapering it off, so it would be 12.5/12.5/12.5 eod/12.5 eod/possibly 6.25 eod or 12.5 e3d if you really want to taper. Again, a lot of this is based off feel and experience with your own body. either way, take it or leave it.
 
booneman77

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Updated with what I think is a better option with what youve provided you will be running. If you are only running the 4 weeks of Reduce XT, starting 2 weeks into PCT is a better option as cort levels sort of have a lag time to spike after cycle. Also, you probably wont need the AI on cycle, you might, who knows, but I always like to add it to PCT and feel it out based on levels of lethargy and joints/dryness. But again, I would add it in starting your 3rd week of PCT and running it for 2 weeks after your SERM, tapering it off, so it would be 12.5/12.5/12.5 eod/12.5 eod/possibly 6.25 eod or 12.5 e3d if you really want to taper. Again, a lot of this is based off feel and experience with your own body. either way, take it or leave it.
I second the reduce recommendation. starting 2 weeks in is the correct protocol.
 
Ohsobuttery

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Thank you guys so much for all the good input!! I'm starting to really see the reasoning and methodology for all of this. I cant wait to get it rollin!
 
unreal89

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Well I upped my DMZ to 50 mg today and 20 mg msten
 
wicked442

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Has anyone noticed a difference in pre ban and post ban Msten and DMZ?
 
T-Bone

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500mg TUDCA from my experience isn't nearly enough. 1500-2000mg is more like it. The more you can afford the better.

OP how many cycles have you run in the past this way?. Without proper pct, and how long did you wait between stopping one cycle and starting another?.
 
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