Epiandro+Dermacrine+S4 Cycle Thoughts?

[cubs1987]

Hola guys... I am looking to run a recomp/athletic cycle here this summer. I had seen this idea on another forum and I think you could shred/recomp on this. Below is what I am thinking. Thoughts?

8 Week Cycle:

Alpha-Stano (Epiando Cyclodextrin) - 150mg x 3 ED
Dermacrine- 5 pumps ED
S4 - 50mg ED
TUDCA
Advanced Cycle Support

PCT:

2 Options:

Option 1:
Rebirth
Formestane
Sustain Alpha

Option 2:
Nolva 20/20/20/20
Sustain Alpha

Edit: I can't spell when half awake ugh- recreated thread bc ****ed up the title

 

[yates84]

Why s4, why not ostar1ne? Will this be your first run with s4? Vision sides are crazy. Tudca is completely unnecessary for your stack and you really don't need cycle support either. Hawthorne berry should have you gtg since bp is the only thing you need to watch with that stack. Definitely pct option #2 just dose your nolva at 20/20/10/10. You always want to taper your serm. A natural anabolic like epic unleashed would be perfect for pct as well, I'm using it now and haven't dropped any of my cycle gains, very happy with it so far.

 

[cubs1987]

Yes, this would be my first run of S4. I had heard the vision sides weren't too bad though. I was looking more for and endurance/metabolic boost/recomp and landed on S4- I was trying to decide between S4 and GW-501516, but the cancer literature kinda scared me away. I kinda nixed Ostarine because some people seem to run Ostarine fine and others seem like its super suppressive (gyno), hence my hesitation.

 

[yates84]

Yes, this would be my first run of S4. I had heard the vision sides weren't too bad though. I was looking more for and endurance/metabolic boost/recomp and landed on S4- I was trying to decide between S4 and GW-501516, but the cancer literature kinda scared me away. I kinda nixed Ostarine because some people seem to run Ostarine fine and others seem like its super suppressive (gyno), hence my hesitation.

Vision sides for me where crazy, you should definitely consider the 5 on 2 off dosing protocol. GW is great, I'm on it now. Those studies that showed gw caused cancer where very long and high dosed. Cycle gw responsibly and it shouldn't be an issue

 

[cubs1987]

Vision sides for me where crazy, you should definitely consider the 5 on 2 off dosing protocol. GW is great, I'm on it now. Those studies that showed gw caused cancer where very long and high dosed. Cycle gw responsibly and it shouldn't be an issue

Damn... so in your opinion if I was to move forward with the above cycle sans S4, sub in GW at 5mg ED? Thanks for the help man... this'll be my first SARM cycle

 

[yates84]

Damn... so in your opinion if I was to move forward with the above cycle sans S4, sub in GW at 5mg ED? Thanks for the help man... this'll be my first SARM cycle

If I was going to drop the s4 it would be for ostar1ne or lgd, gw will help with endurance and bp but that's about it. Technically, gw is not a sarm. It is a ppar delta modifier. I'm using it in pct for its bp lowering effects and it's positive effect on lipid profile. A little extra endurance is nice but epic unleashed works great for that as well. Estrogen sides aren't a big deal as long as you have an ai to get them under control, osta has been run successfully by many people as their first cycle.

 

[highlander31]

Why s4, why not ostar1ne? Will this be your first run with s4? Vision sides are crazy. Tudca is completely unnecessary for your stack and you really don't need cycle support either. Hawthorne berry should have you gtg since bp is the only thing you need to watch with that stack. Definitely pct option #2 just dose your nolva at 20/20/10/10. You always want to taper your serm. A natural anabolic like epic unleashed would be perfect for pct as well, I'm using it now and haven't dropped any of my cycle gains, very happy with it so far.

Why against Rebirth as a PCT option?

 

[yates84]

Why against Rebirth as a PCT option?

Because the blood work results I have seen where not very impressive. Nolva and clomid work and are cheap, if it isn't broke don't fix it.

 

[highlander31]

Because the blood work results I have seen where not very impressive. Nolva and clomid work and are cheap, if it isn't broke don't fix it.

could you link any? I followed a log that he used only rebirth as SERM along with Viron after a dmz/trest run and his bloods after were better than before his cycle.

 

[yates84]

could you link any? I followed a log that he used only rebirth as SERM along with Viron after a dmz/trest run and his bloods after were better than before his cycle.

Will have to look for them. My personal opinion is no serm, no cycle. An otc pct is meant to be used in addition to a serm. I definitely wouldn't trust my hpta to a new and unproven product like this

 

[cubs1987]

Will have to look for them. My personal opinion is no serm, no cycle. An otc pct is meant to be used in addition to a serm. I definitely wouldn't trust my hpta to a new and unproven product like this

The reviews seemed to be pretty positive, hence my thought, but I know the gold standard is SERM.

 

[yates84]

I'm not impressed with rebirth but that is just my opinion.

 

[goodvibes]

For OP I would run ostarine. It's great for a recomp/cut. I'm on it now with dermacrine and Im preserving lbm really well. S4 I haven't dabbled w/ yet so I cnt give you a straight comparison.

As for pct if you run osta you'll most likely be ok with rebirth/viron. How do I knw? Cause on my last osta run I just ran viron/formestane and I recovered well. Suppression on it was very minimal, easy to recover from.

 

[goodvibes]

Dnt get me wrong Nolva or any serm is great but your option 1 is okay too.

 

[cubs1987]

For OP I would run ostarine. It's great for a recomp/cut. I'm on it now with dermacrine and Im preserving lbm really well. S4 I haven't dabbled w/ yet so I cnt give you a straight comparison.

As for pct if you run osta you'll most likely be ok with rebirth/viron. How do I knw? Cause on my last osta run I just ran viron/formestane and I recovered well. Suppression on it was very minimal, easy to recover from.

What were you running Osta at? I'm looking at an 8wk cycle so 13mg ED?

 

[Gutterpump]

Just a heads up that Ostarine is known to increase estrogen sensitivity, or interacts somehow with E2 (not sure how/why), so you may need to keep a watch on E2 and use an AI while using anything that aromatizes alongside it. I'm not really a fan of it for this reason. I guess it's decent for something that's quasi-legal.

 

[cubs1987]

Just a heads up that Ostarine is known to increase estrogen sensitivity, or interacts somehow with E2 (not sure how/why), so you may need to keep a watch on E2 and use an AI while using anything that aromatizes alongside it. I'm not really a fan of it for this reason. I guess it's decent for something that's quasi-legal.

That was my worry as well... I actually have plenty of AI's on hand so that wouldn't be an issue

 

[vujade]

Why against Rebirth as a PCT option?

I ran rebirth after running a 12 week Trest. Cycle Plus four other compounds.

My total was 62 when coming off cycle.
I ran 60 days of rebirth and viron.

My total test is now 445.

That's pretty damn impressive considering
It was in the very low 400s before starting
The cycle. And I'm 46 and have had low T.

I have blood work posted on my rebirth log.

Not sure if Yates is referring to my blood work.?

 

[goodvibes]

What were you running Osta at? I'm looking at an 8wk cycle so 13mg ED?

I went for 20mg/8 weeks but the last two weeks I felt a bit suppressed and I dialed it down to 15mg. Now though because of dermacrine I have no issues at all. I feel like it's so easy to run it for 10-12 weeks but I am switching to the tridermal soon

 

[yates84]

I ran rebirth after running a 12 week Trest. Cycle Plus four other compounds.

My total was 62 when coming off cycle.
I ran 60 days of rebirth and viron.

My total test is now 445.

That's pretty damn impressive considering
It was in the very low 400s before starting
The cycle. And I'm 46 and have had low T.

I have blood work posted on my rebirth log.

Not sure if Yates is referring to my blood work.?

Yes vujade I was referring to your blood work. I think there are many outside factors that could have played into your test being higher after pct. Also, bloods where done 60 days after your cycle. That's a LONG recovery time. What do you think your levels would be after 30 days of clomid? Lastly, you are one person. It is really hard to determine a products worth by one man's bloods, good or bad. Needless to say, I can only reccomend clomid or Nolva.

 

[cubs1987]

I think I am kinda landing on this 8 wk cycle:

Alpha-Stano (Epiando Cyclodextrin) - 150mg x 3 ED (2 bottles)
Dermacrine- 5 pumps ED (2 bottles)
Osta 8 wks 13mg ED (1 bottle)
S4 50mg ED (2 bottles)

PCT:
Torem 120/90/60/30
Formestane
Sustain Alpha

a little lower on the Osta side just to help with the recomp and to not get too suppressive... I have plenty of AI's available too and could throw that in if needed

 

[yates84]

I think I am kinda landing on this 8 wk cycle:

Alpha-Stano (Epiando Cyclodextrin) - 150mg x 3 ED (2 bottles)
Dermacrine- 5 pumps ED (2 bottles)
Osta 8 wks 13mg ED (1 bottle)
S4 50mg ED (2 bottles)

PCT:
Torem 120/90/60/30
Formestane
Sustain Alpha

a little lower on the Osta side just to help with the recomp and to not get too suppressive... I have plenty of AI's available too and could throw that in if needed

I would leave the formastane out of pct, it can be suppressive. Everything else looks good

 

[vujade]

Yes vujade I was referring to your blood work. I think there are many outside factors that could have played into your test being higher after pct. Also, bloods where done 60 days after your cycle. That's a LONG recovery time. What do you think your levels would be after 30 days of clomid? Lastly, you are one person. It is really hard to determine a products worth by one man's bloods, good or bad. Needless to say, I can only reccomend clomid or Nolva.

No worries Yates. I understand where you are coming from. Yes it was a long recovery. Yes i did it all natural.

Also i can understand from your point, that its hard to recommend something you haven't used...

Im just saying that it made a believer out me, because my T is higher then it was when i started.
Even if it took 60 days instead of 30.

I'm sure once there is more real world feedback from other loggers will be able to confirm what I experienced.

:bigok:

 

[yates84]

No worries Yates. I understand where you are coming from. Yes it was a long recovery. Yes i did it all natural.

Also i can understand from your point, that its hard to recommend something you haven't used...

Im just saying that it made a believer out me, because my T is higher then it was when i started.
Even if it took 60 days instead of 30.

I'm sure once there is more real world feedback from other loggers will be able to confirm what I experienced.

:bigok:

Will be looking forward to it! I know there is going to be a lot of guys trying rebirth out, we will see what happens.

 

[vujade]

Will be looking forward to it! I know there is going to be a lot of guys trying rebirth out, we will see what happens.

I am as well. Im hoping to see some younger guys too.

Ones that started with high test levels before their cycle to see how it does for them.

Plus like to see how it does for someone not using Trestolone

 

[yates84]

I am as well. Im hoping to see some younger guys too.

Ones that started with high test levels before their cycle to see how it does for them.

Plus like to see how it does for someone not using Trestolone

What form of trest did you use? I found dermatrest easy to recover from but only ran for 6 weeks

 

[vujade]

What form of trest did you use? I found dermatrest easy to recover from but only ran for 6 weeks

Olympus Labs DT. For 8 weeks.
Cycle was 12 weeks. Plus 6 weeks of Osta
Before the 12 weeks.

 

[cubs1987]

No worries Yates. I understand where you are coming from. Yes it was a long recovery. Yes i did it all natural.

Also i can understand from your point, that its hard to recommend something you haven't used...

Im just saying that it made a believer out me, because my T is higher then it was when i started.
Even if it took 60 days instead of 30.

I'm sure once there is more real world feedback from other loggers will be able to confirm what I experienced.

:bigok:

impressive! Thanks for all of the feedback btw guys

 

[muad33b]

cubs, tried to reply to your PM, but your inbox is full. I'm good with that deal. I can ship tomorrow before 1pm ET if you get it to me by then...

 

[AndroRage]

If I was going to drop the s4 it would be for ostar1ne or lgd, gw will help with endurance and bp but that's about it. Technically, gw is not a sarm. It is a ppar delta modifier. I'm using it in pct for its bp lowering effects and it's positive effect on lipid profile. A little extra endurance is nice but epic unleashed works great for that as well. Estrogen sides aren't a big deal as long as you have an ai to get them under control, osta has been run successfully by many people as their first cycle.

I'm interested in the bp effect of GW & it's affect on lipid profile. Do you have any more info bro, sounds like a win win situation if it can increase performance and help/improve health parameters ?

 

[yates84]

I'm interested in the bp effect of GW & it's affect on lipid profile. Do you have any more info bro, sounds like a win win situation if it can increase performance and help/improve health parameters ?

I usually have a lot of bp issues, especially during pct. I am on gw now at 10mg ed and my bp is beautiful. Lowest I've ever seen it. Was getting 170/100 or something similar for the first few weeks of pct and right now it's 120/60. Not sure about lipid profile bit will find that out in a few weeks when I get my bloods

 

[AndroRage]

I usually have a lot of bp issues, especially during pct. I am on gw now at 10mg ed and my bp is beautiful. Lowest I've ever seen it. Was getting 170/100 or something similar for the first few weeks of pct and right now it's 120/60. Not sure about lipid profile bit will find that out in a few weeks when I get my bloods

So it may have potential with stronger compounds which have a tendency to adversely affect bp to stack them and it could possible alleviate some of the problem, in your experience?

 

[yates84]

So it may have potential with stronger compounds which have a tendency to adversely affect bp to stack them and it could possible alleviate some of the problem, in your experience?

I have no experience with gw on cycle but I think it would work great. Extra hawthorne berry (2.5 grams) kept my bp great on cycle this time around. I might try gw on cycle next time to see how it works. It would definitely be worth trying