Bulk or cut

[craigydar]

Went from 20-to 14% bodyfat in 4 months
I've noticed fat burning slowing up.
Been advised to clean bulk for 12 weeks in the winter leaving me 12 weeks to cut after again for the summer

I'm currently 5,11ft , 86kg

I've noticed done muscle loss also so upped my calories to maintenance again until I decide what to do

What's best thing to do ? Calories etc
Train 5 times week

Also might go with test tren sensible dosage but it only is a maybe

 

[Matthersby]

Is this a before/after pics?. I'm confused. What do you think? Who's advising you? I truly believe that the biggest problem we run into is a lack of fortitude and commitment to bulking. Most freak out when they start to get fat. They discontinue bulking and never really achieve the size they want because they are bulking for just a few months and then cutting that weight right off for a few months. Then, puny and weak, they decide to start bulking again. I honestly believe, If one could only cycle for one of the 2 goals, it serves better for cutting. Food and lots of it is such an easy way to put on tons of size. I think maintaining muscle while dropping bodyfat makes AAS more critical during cutting. Obviously a cycle for both is ideal. I am bulking year round and have more size than I ever have because I stopped the wishy-washy bulk and cut rollercoaster.

 

[craigydar]

Is this a before/after pics?. I'm confused. What do you think? Who's advising you? I truly believe that the biggest problem we run into is a lack of fortitude and commitment to bulking. Most freak out when they start to get fat. They discontinue bulking and never really achieve the size they want because they are bulking for just a few months and then cutting that weight right off for a few months. Then, puny and weak, they decide to start bulking again. I honestly believe, If one could only cycle for one of the 2 goals, it serves better for cutting. Food and lots of it is such an easy way to put on tons of size. I think maintaining muscle while dropping bodyfat makes AAS more critical during cutting. Obviously a cycle for both is ideal. I am bulking year round and have more size than I ever have because I stopped the wishy-washy bulk and cut rollercoaster.

Yes mate before is fatter one lol
After slimmer one

Your right
I need a goal . Was going to keep cutting but lost too much size . I didn't have enough mass to start . I'm going to bulk 4 -5 months and hope I achieve a descent size and evaluate basically ..
I just worked out maintenance is 2800-3000 so my new diet will be 3800 cals 40/40/20f split which is 1.5g lb protein and 0.50g lb fat mate
I'll be doing hiit cardio every morning Aswel for 20mins and weights evening 4 times week

 

[craigydar]

Cardio just for health so cals are high but ill burn 200 off in mornings hiit

 

[Matthersby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeOh18mWWzg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[craigydar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeOh18mWWzg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ha ha ha the blokes off his tits ! Mental lol
So basically don't count cals just eat whatever all winter and then cut for the summer I'm guessing

 

[Matthersby]

Not exactly. He's just being sarcastic. However, I had a successful bulk and didn't really "count". For example, I usually eat almost 1000 cals over maintenance the day after leg day. And at least 500 over on most days. Cheat days I ate a couple thousand over and once every week/2 weeks I would drop carbs and go 1000 under. My version of clean bulking is eating waaaay over maint but with clean foods. Not thinking that you can adequately measure out exactly 3700 cals every day with so many variables including expenditure that day, etc.

 

[craigydar]

Not exactly. He's just being sarcastic. However, I had a successful bulk and didn't really "count". For example, I usually eat almost 1000 cals over maintenance the day after leg day. And at least 500 over on most days. Cheat days I ate a couple thousand over and once every week/2 weeks I would drop carbs and go 1000 under. My version of clean bulking is eating waaaay over maint but with clean foods. Not thinking that you can adequately measure out exactly 3700 cals every day with so many variables including expenditure that day, etc.

I'm a plumber so sometimes I'm flat out n sometimes I'm sat in the van all day
I think I'll try and hit same surplus as clean as poss
How much did u gain on last bulk and how long was the bulk ?was fat gain an issue ?

Thinking of getting this bulk diet like clock work and maybe hit some test and deca to help out .

 

[Matthersby]

I don't know if I'm just too old school and have seen the science come and go. Bodybuilding principles get debunked and new ones take their place every 5 years.
Clean bulking is a joke for the bodybuilder with a full time job, a hectic life and responsibilities. I think you should eat as much as you can, backing off when u notice bf increase too quickly.(it is pretty hard to get fat if you eat clean.) and freaking B U L K. Do guys realize how easy it is to cut when you have a ton of muscle on you?
Anyways, I took 9 months off after a surgery and lost 35 pounds.
I started back up in April.
Below are pictures of me in April just getting back into it. And the last was early November. So 8-9 months I ate FOOD. And a lot of it. I only cycled epistane and m-lmg for 4 weeks. And SD/Test for 6 weeks. So 2 and 1/2 months of the 8 months I was on cycle. I did very little cardio and the body fat I put on came off easily during a modest cut. Beginning weight: 202- final weight: 247

 

[Matthersby]

Now I see why your pics are in reverse-order. Same here. 1st pic was 5 weeks ago and the 2nd was 9 months ago. Backwards order

 

[craigydar]

Now I see why your pics are in reverse-order. Same here. 1st pic was 5 weeks ago and the 2nd was 9 months ago. Backwards order

Wow great transformation
You weren't much bigger than me 9months ago
Have you cut in the 9 months then and how long cut ?

 

[Matthersby]

Not really. I got sick 2 weeks ago and dropped a bunch of bf. Prob some muscle too. I don't plan on a cut until next august

 

[craigydar]

Not really. I got sick 2 weeks ago and dropped a bunch of bf. Prob some muscle too. I don't plan on a cut until next august

Jesus that's a hell of a bulk !!
Bit of fat over the summer won't hurt lol
Think I'm going to bulk for ages see what happens

 

[Matthersby]

As much of a joke that YouTube guy's video was, it spoke a truth that we have all experienced: Bulking while staying ridiculously lean is ridiculous .... I say forget about it. Find what your target size/weight is and overshoot it by 20 lbs. Even if it takes you 3 years. Then, cut up

 

[craigydar]

As much of a joke that YouTube guy's video was, it spoke a truth that we have all experienced: Bulking while staying ridiculously lean is ridiculous .... I say forget about it. Find what your target size/weight is and overshoot it by 20 lbs. Even if it takes you 3 years. Then, cut up

So the cut will in theory be a lot longer , and maybe loose abit of that 20lbs in muscle
But hey at least the muscle will be there !
I feel skinny after that cut it's rediculous ! Hate the little stubborn belly fat lower abs and puffy nipples !! I get that unfortunately ,That's what annoys me about bulking

 

[Matthersby]

So the cut will in theory be a lot longer , and maybe loose abit of that 20lbs in muscle
But hey at least the muscle will be there !
I feel skinny after that cut it's rediculous ! Hate the little stubborn belly fat lower abs and puffy nipples !! I get that unfortunately ,That's what annoys me about bulking

Everyone does. You can deal with it or use a lot of gear and GH. Or clean bulk....which takes decades

 

[craigydar]

Everyone does. You can deal with it or use a lot of gear and GH. Or clean bulk....which takes decades

Well this is what I'm starting mate along with 3800-4000 cals a day




Caber 0.25 x2 wk after 4 wks 0.25 x3 wk all the way through inc pct
Adex 0.25 eod throughout


tren enanthate 400mg wk 1-10

Tri test 800mg 1-14

Dbol 40mg 1-4

Hcg 500iu x2 wk 1-14
14-15 no hcg
15- 10days of 1000iu hcg EOD
Wait four days then
Clomid 300mg first day 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20



Tren enanthate 200/ml x 2vials
Tri test 400/ml x 3 vials
Clomid x2
Nolva
Caber pills
Arimidex
Hcg x 20,000iu hcg
Dbol 4wks worth at 40mg

 

[Matthersby]

I don't recommend on Tren having never used it, but you could probably cut that test dose in half, easily. That sounds like a slew of sides, although extremely well planned out otherwise.

 

[Montego1]

Long ester tren for first tren cycle could be awful if you don't react well.

 

[craigydar]

Long ester tren for first tren cycle could be awful if you don't react well.

I've used tren e before so prepared for it
What sort of doses of test and tren don't outguns I should do
I only want to jab twice week maximum really

 

[craigydar]

Debating higher tren lower test ! But I've not done it that way round before

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Debating higher tren lower test ! But I've not done it that way round before

You'll shred up and still get big. Idt there's a point to go high test on tren. I'd go high test with everything but tren. Tren binds so much more aggressive to the AR than test.

 

[craigydar]

You'll shred up and still get big. Idt there's a point to go high test on tren. I'd go high test with everything but tren. Tren binds so much more aggressive to the AR than test.

So what we talking 500-600 tren e and 300-400 test e??

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

So what we talking 500-600 tren e and 300-400 test e??

Correct sir.

 

[Matthersby]

Tren scares me but that looks much more pleasant.

 

[craigydar]

I know I'm a loose cannon at the best of times , mixed it previously whilst going out single every fri sat Sunday ! Got in loads if trouble and upset a lot of people lol
But I'm now in a relationship and gym is my going out so hopefully with test lower this time less sides !!

Let's see how much lean muscle I can put on then . I'll be eating ALOT and got a mutant mass gainer to bump an extra 500-1000 cals a day if I can't eat it !

A little excited now !
Just thinking about cardio , as I'm not wanting to loose precious calories but just to increase fitness abit and burn some fat excess fat I'm gunna be adding ? What you think ? Hiit interval sprints eod for 20mins

 

[craigydar]

Correct sir.

Would you guys add eq at say 500mg wk Aswel?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Would you guys add eq at say 500mg wk Aswel?

Idk how fast your metabolism is but I can't put on any fat on 400mg of tren e right, I'm just getting leaner on a dirty bulk lol. My appetite is retarded vicious, over 5000 calories 2day and I'm still starving. I say yes to EQ but prepare for brutal hunger all the time.

 

[craigydar]

Idk how fast your metabolism is but I can't put on any fat on 400mg of tren e right, I'm just getting leaner on a dirty bulk lol. My appetite is retarded vicious, over 5000 calories 2day and I'm still starving. I say yes to EQ but prepare for brutal hunger all the time.

So tren 600, test 400 is enough? Or add eq in at 500mg Aswel ?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

So tren 600, test 400 is enough? Or add eq in at 500mg Aswel ?

The test and tren is enough. I'd only throw in the EQ for added vascularity and the appetite increase.

 

[craigydar]

The test and tren is enough. I'd only throw in the EQ for added vascularity and the appetite increase.

What sort of dose for eq mate

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

What sort of dose for eq mate

600 and higher

 

[craigydar]

Caber 0.25 x2 wk after 4 wks 0.25 x3 wk all the way through inc pct
Adex 0.25 eod throughout

Eq600 1-16
tren enanthate 600mg wk 1-12/14

Tri test 400mg wk 1-16

Dbol 40mg 1-4

Hcg 500iu x2 wk 1-14
14-15 no hcg
15- 10days of 1000iu hcg EOD
Wait four days then
Clomid 300mg first day 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

What you think

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

I'm jealous lol. Looks good but I'd add something for cortisol in your pct.

 

[frogleg]

If you are running eq with tren for strength and size it's a waste tren is much strong and will do all the work. If you are adding eq for vascularity it's a waste you can get vascular by dropping body fat. Don't run 600mg a week of eq for increased appetite it's a waste you should only need 200mg a week you can always bump it up if need for appetite but 200mg week should be all that's needed

 

[craigydar]

Hmmmm decisions lol
I stop tren at like 10-12 wk so eq at 600 will kick in with test up until 15-16 wks tho ?
So is it best to keep eq same all way through as it takes a while to kick in ? Tren would have done its work by then

 

[frogleg]

Yes if you stop tren at week 10 the eq would be kicking in but in your cycle layout you were thinking of running tren 12 or 14 weeks. Tren e being much stronger than eq I would run it the 14 weeks with the 200 mg of eq for appetite. I don't think you will be disappointed or miss anything from not running the eq high that you couldn't get from the tren. That's just my opinion, it's your cycle your body your decision.

 

[craigydar]

Ghrp/mod grf probably not a good idea on this cycle although was considering it
Don't know enough
You lot ever done it ?

 

[frogleg]

Ghrp/mod grf probably not a good idea on this cycle although was considering it Don't know enough You lot ever done it ?

I Never done ghrp/mod grf so cannot comment but have run gh for long periods and can say that is helpful with sleep and recovery at 4ius a day. Which is what is expected.

 

[craigydar]

I Never done ghrp/mod grf so cannot comment but have run gh for long periods and can say that is helpful with sleep and recovery at 4ius a day. Which is what is expected.

Not worth the money tho ?
I'm not loaded

 

[frogleg]

If you had the extra and to run it 6 months I say go for it but if it's gonna put you in back too much I wouldn't worry about adding it as it's not really needed

 

[craigydar]

Yea see what you mean , just waiting on my blood tests to come back before I start the course ! Already on the bulking diet

 

[frogleg]

Good luck it looks like you have a solid cycle laid out

 

[craigydar]

Cheers mate !!
First time in my life I'm dedicated !!
Kid on the way , so gym gym gym no alcohol or partying anymore lol
What do you think I could gain ? Maintenance is 3000 cals , you think 4000 cals enough to get big n not too much fat ?
What' your cycle like mate ? Or any planned

 

[frogleg]

Cheers mate !! First time in my life I'm dedicated !! Kid on the way , so gym gym gym no alcohol or partying anymore lol What do you think I could gain ? Maintenance is 3000 cals , you think 4000 cals enough to get big n not too much fat ? What' your cycle like mate ? Or any planned

If maintenance is 3000 I would shoot for 4500 and bump up if stopped gaining. The tren should help with keeping fat away especially if you are eating clean. I think if u respond well to the tren keep cals up and put the work in you should have no problem keeping 20 pounds but everyone's different maybe more or maybe less. I'm cruising at 300mg test e a week now but looking to blast some tren or deca in February after holidays are over and get diet in check but I'm undecided right now. Depends on what I look like and how I feel and what my current goal will be.

 

[craigydar]

If maintenance is 3000 I would shoot for 4500 and bump up if stopped gaining. The tren should help with keeping fat away especially if you are eating clean. I think if u respond well to the tren keep cals up and put the work in you should have no problem keeping 20 pounds but everyone's different maybe more or maybe less. I'm cruising at 300mg test e a week now but looking to blast some tren or deca in February after holidays are over and get diet in check but I'm undecided right now. Depends on what I look like and how I feel and what my current goal will be.

Ok mate all the best in what u decide
I'm guessing you'll be on trt
Well I'll eat 4000 until my course starts then up it to 4500 ! Never eaten this much before lol
I'll try an get in 20mins cardio hiit 3 x week also just to help fat loss a bit

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Ok mate all the best in what u decide
I'm guessing you'll be on trt
Well I'll eat 4000 until my course starts then up it to 4500 ! Never eaten this much before lol
I'll try an get in 20mins cardio hiit 3 x week also just to help fat loss a bit

I think you'll lose fat regardless at those calories on tren.

 

[craigydar]

I think you'll lose fat regardless at those calories on tren.

Really ? That's insane mate !!
Be nice to bulk until after this cycle all the way to end next year ! Get more bloods and run it in a cut
If it's that good
Last time I done tren I was drinking n partying hard so didn't get full effects

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Really ? That's insane mate !!
Be nice to bulk until after this cycle all the way to end next year ! Get more bloods and run it in a cut
If it's that good
Last time I done tren I was drinking n partying hard so didn't get full effects

I'm eating whatever I want and just look better everyday. Its insane lol

 

[craigydar]

I'm eating whatever I want and just look better everyday. Its insane lol

What is your exact cycle