Double Epistane Log - Should be interesting

[Aaron330]

I have been planning on running this 6 week Epi cycle for a few months now, and have already pre-loaded cycle assist for the past 2 weeks. I am ready to start my Epi Cycle on Monday.

However another user, S0briquet, saw my advice thread and pm'd me saying he has been thinking of running an Epi cycle too and would like to mimic my exact cycle. So we decided it could be cool to run a Dual-Epistane log, to see how two people respond to the same identical cycle. We will both be going for as much lean mass and strength increases as possible, however the only difference will be our training regimen's. Maybe we can see what kind of a training regimen Epistane responds the best with. I will be running a higher-volume 5-6 day a week split, lifting sometimes even twice a day, while S0briquet will be running a less high-volume 4 day split.

Here is our cycle. S0briquet is about 1 week behind me I believe, so we will overlap a little.

1-2 weeks pre-load Cycle assist

Cycle Weeks 1-6:
Epi: 30/30/30/45/45/45
Aegis shield of the gods throughout
Cycle assist throughout
Animal Flex for joint support throughout

Post Cycle weeks 1-5:
Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Erase: 0/3/2/2/1
DAA: 3g ED
Cycle Assist throughout
Liv52 throughout

I will also be running Nolva at 20/20/20/20/20 just to be sure, although S0briquet won't be running that.

Here are my only two questions remaining about this cycle. I've read so many threads the past few weeks that my eyeballs hurt. Should I run a Cortisol Blocker like Lean X-treme? And I've also read a ton of different opinions on running a DHEA on cycle like Transaderm. Alot of guys say that it helps you make alot more gains and most importantly avoid lethargy and crazy shutdown. I'm afraid of lethargy more than anything. What do you more experienced guys think? Are Lean Xtreme and Transaderm worth it to get the most out of a cycle?

Pictures and log soon to come as well.

 

[Aaron330]

Pre-Cycle pics, stats & diet info

I weighed myself this morning upon waking up with nothing but shorts on, and its the same it has been for months - 193 lbs
I also tested all of my max's last week, so I know exactly where I'm at. I'm hoping to gain 6-10 lbs of lean mass on this cycle, as well as drop a few % body fat.

Height: 6 1'
Weight: 193 lb
Bench Press: 290#
Back Squat: 330#
Deadlift: 425#
Overhead Press: 160#

I'm hoping to increase my clean&jerk and snatch as well, but those lifts are more based on neurological improvements than strength.

Diet
I've been on a clean bulk of 4-5k calories a day for 5 months now, with hardly 1 lb of muscle gain. Just at a huge plateau I can't seem to break through, which is why I decided to run this cycle. At my height there's no reason I shouldn't be 205+.

I will be eating 4000-4500 clean calories a day. My diet consists of the same foods everyday.
Blended shake- Kale & Spinach, carrots, banana, blueberries, strawberries, almonds.
Oatmeal
ON Pro Complex Gainer shake with whole milk and 2 raw eggs
Brown rice, chicken and 2 tbsp coconut oil
Banana with 4 tbsp of peanut butter/almond butter
2 beef patties with cheese wrapped in lettuce
Sweet potato
Tuna
12 fish oil caps a day

Training Regimen
I will be running the Russian Squat Program for the next 6 weeks, so I'll be squatting 3 days a week. Also will continue to run 5/3/1 for Deadlift and overhead press. I'm on a separate program for Bench. Will also be doing crossfit style metcon's for cardio 3 days a week, using moderate to heavy weights.

Monday:
Back Squat
Front Squat
Snatch
Overhead Squat

Tuesday:
Bench Press
Assistance Bench lifts
Metcon

Wednesday:
Deadlift
Barbell Rows
Pull-ups
Biceps

Thursday:
Back Squat
Metcon

Friday:
Overhead Press
Shoulders
Power Cleans
Metcon

Saturday:
Biceps/Triceps
Back Squat

Sunday:
Off day

I know it may seem like too much volume, but I am able to get 9-10 hours of sleep a night, as well as 4-5k calories of food every day, so I recover very well. As they say, "there's no over-training, just under-recovering". I've been making huge strength gains, just haven't gained any weight. Muscle soreness leaves in 1-2 days tops. With the Epistane, I'm assuming that will only improve. If lethargy hits me hard for some reason, I will change up the split and add a 2nd rest day.

Pre-Cycle Pics

 

[absurd]

Cool keep us updated. What are your dosages gonna be. I just finished my 5th week @ 40mg and I think for 6th week I might ramp it up to 50mg not sure. But I started cycle at 198 lbs. now I'm sitting at a solid 210. Strength went up like crazy I was db shoulder pressing only 65s (10 reps) at the beginning now I'm doing 80s (10 reps) like nobody's business.

 

[Aaron330]

Cool keep us updated. What are your dosages gonna be. I just finished my 5th week @ 40mg and I think for 6th week I might ramp it up to 50mg not sure. But I started cycle at 198 lbs. now I'm sitting at a solid 210. Strength went up like crazy I was db shoulder pressing only 65s (10 reps) at the beginning now I'm doing 80s (10 reps) like nobody's business.

Holy **** man that's awesome. That definitely makes me even more stoked to get this cycle started!

I think I listed the dosage at 30/30/30/45/45/45. I have Epi-10 and Epi-150, so I may end up changing it to something like 30/30/40/40/50/50

BTW, what are your opinions about running a Cortisol Control like Lean Xtreme in PCT, and running a DHEA to help keep test levels up and lethargy down. Something like Transaderm? I've read some guys saying that running a DHEA with a PH cycle is a must.

 

[absurd]

See that's where I get confused too some people tell me to take an A.I like Erase on 2nd or 3rd week and others insist that I don't. I think just stick with serm. I'll be doing Nolva 20/20/10/10 and if I experience any estrogen rebound sides I'll start taking my erase. I'll also be taking some preworkout, creatine, whey, bcaa, and fish oil during pct. I recently read that fish oil can cause prostate cancer so once I'm out of that I'm sticking with flax seed oil.

 

[s0briquet]

As Aaron has said, I will be joining him in this exact cycle, although due to a delay in shipping, it looks like I will be a full two weeks behind him instead of just one. I won't reiterate the specifics of the cycle as they can be seen above. As for my personal pre-cycle info;

Weighing myself this morning I clocked in at 182 lbs (definitely need to test at a second scale though because I was told it may be off - great.)
I also tested all of my max's last week, so I know exactly where I'm at. My main concern will be breaking through the strength gain plateaus that I have been stuck at for quite a few weeks now - they're the same plateaus that I have encountered twice before throughout my training. I have had to take a few breaks over the years, and this is the same strength level I always seem to return to;

Height: 6 4'
Bench Press: 265#
Back Squat: 315#
Deadlift: 465#
Overhead Press: 135#

The training split I'll be doing is 4 days, and each week has a different rep and set count. It looks like this; Week 1, all exercises 3x15, Week 2, all 4x10, Week 3 all 5x5. Major muscle group split is typically obvious. Shoulders, Back, Chest, Legs each has its own day with several supplementary exercises and smaller muscle groups added to each one. So, in a 6-week epi cycle, I will go through each set style twice; I'm looking forward to comparing the first three weeks and the last three, and hoping for some good strength improvement. Cardio is 1.5 hours of soccer once a week.

I finished my pre-cycle two days ago, and took the first round of epi yesterday, so obviously nothing of note to report yet. I'll try to keep my posts a bit smaller so that they don't interfere with Aarons to much; I'll be giving my experience with strength gains and etc. throughout, and I'm looking forward to it based on what Aaron has already seen after two weeks.

 

[Aaron330]

See that's where I get confused too some people tell me to take an A.I like Erase on 2nd or 3rd week and others insist that I don't. I think just stick with serm. I'll be doing Nolva 20/20/10/10 and if I experience any estrogen rebound sides I'll start taking my erase. I'll also be taking some preworkout, creatine, whey, bcaa, and fish oil during pct. I recently read that fish oil can cause prostate cancer so once I'm out of that I'm sticking with flax seed oil.

Are you serious about the fish oil? I've heard that bogus myth before and have read plenty of articles that debunk that myth. Can you post that article you read though? Fish Oil is nothing but a miracle drug dude, it won't have any effect on you other than drastically improving your overall health.

 

[absurd]

Are you serious about the fish oil? I've heard that bogus myth before and have read plenty of articles that debunk that myth. Can you post that article you read though? Fish Oil is nothing but a miracle drug dude, it won't have any effect on you other than drastically improving your overall health.

A few places I read it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcsiegel/2013/07/24/does-fish-oil-increase-ones-risk-of-getting-prostate-cancer/
http://onlineathens.com/health/2013-09-16/new-research-raises-questions-fish-oil-supplement-safety

 

[Aaron330]

A few places I read it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcsiegel/2013/07/24/does-fish-oil-increase-ones-risk-of-getting-prostate-cancer/
http://onlineathens.com/health/2013-09-16/new-research-raises-questions-fish-oil-supplement-safety

Yea I think I've read one of those before. I don't understand how they are so vague about a study that is so important. Just saying "a study showed that men who eat fatty fish/fish oil have a 70% higher risk of prostate cancer..." huh? How do you measure "risk of prostate cancer"? There's no detail other than the vague blanket statement.

This is one article that sums up how I feel about it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/omega-3s-prostate-cancer_b_3659735.html There's just no way I'm going to stop taking the most potent health drug known to man that has 1000 different ways of making me healthier and lower risk for many diseases, because 1 study claims that it "can cause higher risk for cancer". The proof is in the pudding, people have been taking fish oil for 20-30 years and we haven't ever seen the fish oil loving community begin to develop prostate cancer. Millions of people take fish oil every day, and if fish oil increases your risk by 70%, shouldn't we see lots more people getting diagnosed? What about the Japanese and other Asian cultures that almost exclusively eat fatty fish for centuries? Their overall health is far superior to ours, and that's really all the proof I need. Those are my questions and concerns with a study that claims that. I'm not saying there's no way its true, but I would need to see a whole lot more evidence than what they're giving.

 

[murk01]

Fish oil , prostate cancer. Bullsh! T.
I read that too. Most studys are bs .

How many cycles have u ran previously.

Ur stats are close to mine.

Also ur strong as fuk those numbers are awesome.

Ur monday is a real fukin kill. Why so many squat variants.

And in like flin.. keep up with the updates

 

[Aaron330]

Fish oil , prostate cancer. Bullsh! T.
I read that too. Most studys are bs .

How many cycles have u ran previously.

Ur stats are close to mine.

Also ur strong as fuk those numbers are awesome.

Ur monday is a real fukin kill. Why so many squat variants.

And in like flin.. keep up with the updates

Thanks bro! That's a huge compliment for sure because I do not see myself as being that strong at all. Probably cuz I usually work out with guys that lift 2x as much as me haha.

I'd like to compete at Crossfit soon, and in order to be good you have to be extremely well rounded with your squatting (and Oly lifts), and you have to do all of them a lot: Back squat, front squat, overhead squat, single leg squats, etc. So I thrash my legs on monday and give them about 3 days to recover and finish my last two squat sessions Thursday and Saturday. My legs really don't get sore because I squat so much and roll out twice a day. So my body is accustomed to that kind of volume now.

And this will be my first cycle ever. Figured Epi was a good route to go for a first cycle, so we'll see. How many cycles have you ran, and what has been your experience with Epi?

 

[absurd]

Yea I think I've read one of those before. I don't understand how they are so vague about a study that is so important. Just saying "a study showed that men who eat fatty fish/fish oil have a 70% higher risk of prostate cancer..." huh? How do you measure "risk of prostate cancer"? There's no detail other than the vague blanket statement.

This is one article that sums up how I feel about it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/omega-3s-prostate-cancer_b_3659735.html There's just no way I'm going to stop taking the most potent health drug known to man that has 1000 different ways of making me healthier and lower risk for many diseases, because 1 study claims that it "can cause higher risk for cancer". The proof is in the pudding, people have been taking fish oil for 20-30 years and we haven't ever seen the fish oil loving community begin to develop prostate cancer. Millions of people take fish oil every day, and if fish oil increases your risk by 70%, shouldn't we see lots more people getting diagnosed? What about the Japanese and other Asian cultures that almost exclusively eat fatty fish for centuries? Their overall health is far superior to ours, and that's really all the proof I need. Those are my questions and concerns with a study that claims that. I'm not saying there's no way its true, but I would need to see a whole lot more evidence than what they're giving.

It could be a case of too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. Vitamin C is necessary but too much of it is toxic. I think in moderation fish oil should be fine and taking 6-10 grams a day like I am during cycle should be ok as it's only for 6 week period after that I'll probably stick to 2 grams a day. It might also be the contaminants in fish oil that can cause prostate cancer. Either way it's hard to narrow it down.

 

[Aaron330]

I think you're right especially about the contaminants/mercury and things like that which come in cheaper brands. Although there's been numerous studies of people with chronic health conditions that have been completely turned around with very high doses of fish oil (about 15 grams a day). You can look these cases up on google, but I've read two in particular that are amazing. You might remember the coal mining crew in 2006 or 7 that collapsed and trapped the crew of 13 in the cave. 12 of them died due to lack of oxygen, 1 of them survived. The grey matter in his brain was mostly destroyed and he was supposed to be a vegetable. Dr. Barry Sears put him on 15g of fish oil of day and within a matter of months his grey matter had almost fully returned and he made a full recovery. The other case was with the world's fattest man who was from Mexico I believe, weighed 1200 lbs. they put him on every diet known to man and couldn't get him to lose weight. Dr. Barry Sears again put him on 15g of fish oil which de-inflamed him and allowed his body to respond to the diet and he lost over 600 lbs.

All that to say, there are many studies like that which have proven the amazing effects fish oil can have in high doses, up to a certain point obviously. Its an incredibly powerful supplement. Of course though, if you're taking a cheap brand with contaminants you could def experience negative effects.

That's why I pay good money for my fish oil lol. Like you, I stick to about 6-10 grams a day and it does wonders for me. It has actually completely gotten rid of my IBS for the past two years I've been taking it

 

[Aaron330]

Took my first 30 mg dose today. Felt a little adrenaline rush. Lets get this party started!!

 

[Lukef2000]

Cycle looks solid man I'm in to follow along. Do you plan to run Nolva during cycle or in pct with the clomid?? I couldn't tell from your format...

 

[Aaron330]

Cycle looks solid man I'm in to follow along. Do you plan to run Nolva during cycle or in pct with the clomid?? I couldn't tell from your format...

Yea as of right now I am going to run nolva on a low dosage of like 20/20/20/20 for 4 weeks. I have it so why not? I probably won't experience any kind of gyno symptoms, but better safe than sorry.

First workout is today, I'm pumped!

 

[absurd]

Why not nolva by itself? I'm ending 6 week cycle this week last 5 days and 50mg a day and I'll be doing nolva only pct 20/20/10/10 and daa @ 3 grams. And you'll know when epistane kicks in the pumps are insane and veins will be bulging this happened about a week and a half into the cycle. One more thing around the 4th week I got back pumps bad and taurine didn't really help me but pumps only kill on leg day and back/shoulders all other days I was fine.

 

[Lukef2000]

Yea as of right now I am going to run nolva on a low dosage of like 20/20/20/20 for 4 weeks. I have it so why not? I probably won't experience any kind of gyno symptoms, but better safe than sorry.

First workout is today, I'm pumped!

You shouldn't have any issue re gyno while in epi as epi blocks estrogen at its receptor site. The problem with Epi is rebound gyno, this is why a strong AI is a must during pct. anyways bro get in the gym and kill that shït!

 

[absurd]

You shouldn't have any issue re gyno while in epi as epi blocks estrogen at its receptor site. The problem with Epi is rebound gyno, this is why a strong AI is a must during pct. anyways bro get in the gym and kill that shït!

From what I've been reading some people recommend against an AI altogether because your man pecks are protected from becoming bitch tits by your serm. Either way I got erase on hand just in case I feel anything.

 

[Lukef2000]

From what I've been reading some people recommend against an AI altogether because your man pecks are protected from becoming bitch tits by your serm. Either way I got erase on hand just in case I feel anything.

That's a very backwards way to look at it. Serms like tamoxifen or raloxifene fight breast tissue growth in men but you have to have breast tissue growth in the first place. I would rather prevent it in the first place rather than try to combat it once its already started.

 

[Aaron330]

That's a very backwards way to look at it. Serms like tamoxifen or raloxifene fight breast tissue growth in men but you have to have breast tissue growth in the first place. I would rather prevent it in the first place rather than try to combat it once its already started.

Yea, I wish this **** wasn't so confusing. Either way, I'm going to run Erase AND nolva with the clomid, so I should be safe from rebound gyno anyway. Should I wait 1 week or 2 weeks into my PCT to start running the Erase?

 

[Aaron330]

Workout Day 1 - Squat

Session One:

Back Squat: 6x2 - 265#

5 sec Pause Squats: 3x5 - 205#

Bulgarian Split Squats: 3x5 - 50 lb dumbbells

Front Squat: 5x5 - 170#

Session Two:

EMOM (every minute on the minute) for 12 minutes: 1 Hang snatch, 1 power snatch, 1 Overhead Squat - 115#



Today was my first workout on cycle, 2nd day on Epi. Not feeling much of anything yet of course, but I felt like I should crank up the volume today just to see how well I recover. Won't squat again until Thursday, so I freaking squatted myself into a hole this morning. Almost had to crawl out of my garage and back into the house lol. I felt like I was handling the volume really well until the last few sets of the 5x5 and the exhaustion hit me hard. Took a nap before work and could hardly stand up out of bed. I just finished training my first client today and have a 3 hour gap between, so I did my snatch work.

It was brutal.

My legs were extremely weak and I just had no power from the floor. Felt like snatching with 145#. But its more about technique work with snatching so I got it done.

I hope my next clients don't mind me coaching them from a bench lol. Won't be able to stand much for the rest of the day. I'll make sure and get 4.5k calories to help with recovery. Only change I've seen so far is the added mental toughness to grind through a high volume day like this, just from knowing that I'm on cycle. Loving it so far!

 

[absurd]

Yea, I wish this **** wasn't so confusing. Either way, I'm going to run Erase AND nolva with the clomid, so I should be safe from rebound gyno anyway. Should I wait 1 week or 2 weeks into my PCT to start running the Erase?

People are saying 2nd or even 3rd week I'm going to hold off as long as possible with the AI if I get itchy/sensitive nips I'm taking erase if not I'm not taking it at all.

 

[Lukef2000]

Yea, I wish this **** wasn't so confusing. Either way, I'm going to run Erase AND nolva with the clomid, so I should be safe from rebound gyno anyway. Should I wait 1 week or 2 weeks into my PCT to start running the Erase?

Yeah man it's very confusing, I've been around this game for a few years now and I still learn shït all the time. I'd start it week two and run it past your serm for two weeks.

 

[absurd]

Here's an interesting read on AI and prohormones.

Anti-Estrogens, AIs and Prohormone/Designer Steroid Cycles

 

[Aaron330]

Workout Day 2 - Chest/Triceps

Session One:
12 Minute AMRAP (as many rounds as possible)
14 Kettlebell swings - 53#
7 burpee box jump overs - 20 inch box
7 rounds +14 KB swings+ 1 burpee box jump

Session Two:
Bench Press Lower 1/2 reps: 185x10, 205x10, 215x10
Bench Press Upper 1/2 reps: 185x10, 205x10, 215x10
Incline Bench Press: 135x10, 155x8, 155x8

Tricep Press-Down: 12x70, 10x80, 8x90, 6x100, 6x100
Ring Dips: 3 max sets
Close Grip Pushups: 3 max sets
Wide Grip Pushups: 3 max sets

Felt good today, held up to the volume really well. I did get extremely tired in the middle of the day and took a 2 hour nap. Is that what lethargy feels like, or was I just tired? lol. Not sure if lethargy is actually feeling sleepy or just not having the drive/desire to lift?

Anyway, got a HUGE abnormal pump in my chest and triceps, not sure if it was just cuz I hit it well today, or if the Epi contributed to it, but it felt good. No sides or anything at all to comment on thus far. We'll see what the scale says tomorrow morning.

 

[absurd]

That would be lethargy but I don't think it would be hitting you this fast. I didn't have lethargy thankfully. This 6th week for me is shutting me down b-a-d I got no sex drive which is ok since I'm single lol but trying to go out with this girl is driving me nuts so I'd say psychological effects are amplified on the cycle. Can't wait to start pct.

 

[Aaron330]

Wow dude that's horrible...sorry to hear that. Hopefully your libido will come screaming back as soon as you start PCT.

Remind me again, what cycle are you on? And how have your gains been coming on cycle?

 

[absurd]

Epistane 30/30/30/40/40/50. It's my first cycle ever too lol go big or go home imo 4 weeks is too short run 5 weeks at least. I started at 198 and now I'm a solid 215 I'm trying to pack on a few more pounds as well. I'm not tracking my macros too much but high protein, high carb, medium fat diet.

 

[Aaron330]

Epistane 30/30/30/40/40/50. It's my first cycle ever too lol go big or go home imo 4 weeks is too short run 5 weeks at least. I started at 198 and now I'm a solid 215 I'm trying to pack on a few more pounds as well. I'm not tracking my macros too much but high protein, high carb, medium fat diet.

Wow that sounds Awesome man! I sure hope I can make some gains like that. How's ur strength gains.

That's actually exactly what I'm looking to do now as well. Except I'm gonna go 30/30/30/40/45/45.

To be honest I'm looking forward to the libido crash. I need a break from having a raging sex drive 24/7. Lol

 

[absurd]

Wow that sounds Awesome man! I sure hope I can make some gains like that. How's ur strength gains.

That's actually exactly what I'm looking to do now as well. Except I'm gonna go 30/30/30/40/45/45.

To be honest I'm looking forward to the libido crash. I need a break from having a raging sex drive 24/7. Lol

Strength is up a lot. Before cycle close grip bench was 185x12 and 225x5 now it's 225x12, 245x7, 275x3. I've been hitting back hard too lat pull down was my weakness I was only doing 155 or so for 10 reps now I'm doing 195 for 10+ reps and 200+ for 6-8 reps. DB shoulder press is my favorite I went from 70s for 6 reps to 80s for 10 reps and this week I hope I can hit 85s for around the same. I can probably do 90s for 6 reps so 20lb. increase per arm!!! Leg strength is up too for calf raises, hack squats, and lunges. I just hope not to lose much during pct.

 

[Aaron330]

Strength is up a lot. Before cycle close grip bench was 185x12 and 225x5 now it's 225x12, 245x7, 275x3. I've been hitting back hard too lat pull down was my weakness I was only doing 155 or so for 10 reps now I'm doing 195 for 10+ reps and 200+ for 6-8 reps. DB shoulder press is my favorite I went from 70s for 6 reps to 80s for 10 reps and this week I hope I can hit 85s for around the same. I can probably do 90s for 6 reps so 20lb. increase per arm!!! Leg strength is up too for calf raises, hack squats, and lunges. I just hope not to lose much during pct.

That sounds amazing, I can't wait to see my lifts start going up like that. How long did it take until you started seeing weight gain/strength gain/sides start happening?

 

[absurd]

It was probably by the 2nd week that all my lifts were going up and each week after that up and up lol.

 

[Lukef2000]

Here's an interesting read on AI and prohormones.

Anti-Estrogens, AIs and Prohormone/Designer Steroid Cycles

That's simply one guys opinion, nothing more. Has has some valid points but some if his ideas are very left field.

 

[Aaron330]

That's simply one guys opinion, nothing more. Has has some valid points but some if his ideas are very left field.

Which ones particularly?

 

[Aaron330]

Workout Day 3- Deadlift/Back

Deadlift: 275x5, 315x5, 360x7, 315x8, 275x10
Dumbbell Row: 4x8 - 65#
Lat Pull Down: 5x8 - 175# plus a drop set
Reverse Flies 4x8 at 110#

Workout was great, got a good pump, but man I feel tired today. Was starting to feel sleepy between deadlift sets. Fought through it, but now I'm sitting back in my office and trying to stay awake. It may just be because I didn't get good sleep last night...but I hope this doesn't continue throughout the whole cycle.

No weight gain or noticeable strength gains as of yet. Only my 4th day on though.

 

[supersaiyan92]

Just some heads up.

I ran Epi for 5 weeks 20/30/30/20/20 and was using cycle assist. Had to cut back down to 20 mg a day cuz of the constant headache I was having all day everyday from the 2nd week on because I didn't kno about the high blood pressure side effect...so some advice if I were u I would also use Hawthorn Berry to avoid tht cuz it sucked having a headache during workouts.

Other thn that I didn't experience shut down or major lathargy, just couldn't deadlift during the whole cycle cuz of the back pumps were unbearable

 

[supersaiyan92]

I loved the gains I got from it tho...started noticing I waz ALOT Fuller the 2nd week and crazy veins everywhere.

I went from 192 lbs to 214 in 5 weeks. then after PCT I stayed at 206 lbs

 

[Aaron330]

Just some heads up. I ran Epi for 5 weeks 20/30/30/20/20 and was using cycle assist. Had to cut back down to 20 mg a day cuz of the constant headache I was having all day everyday from the 2nd week on because I didn't kno about the high blood pressure side effect...so some advice if I were u I would also use Hawthorn Berry to avoid tht cuz it sucked having a headache during workouts. Other thn that I didn't experience shut down or major lathargy, just couldn't deadlift during the whole cycle cuz of the back pumps were unbearable

Interesting...that's good to know man, thanks for the heads up. Everybody is different so hopefully that won't happen for me. But I am taking cycle assist as well which has Hawthorne berry in it, should I take more?

Also have Taurine on hand in case I get back pumps. Not dead lifting is not an option for me as I'm looking to up my strength gains big time on this cycle.

 

[Aaron330]

I loved the gains I got from it tho...started noticing I waz ALOT Fuller the 2nd week and crazy veins everywhere. I went from 192 lbs to 214 in 5 weeks. then after PCT I stayed at 206 lbs

Holy **** that sounds awesome. I fully hope and expect to get gains similar to that. Ready for this **** to really kick in already!!

 

[Lukef2000]

Which ones particularly?

The idea of not using an AI during pct is very odd. Especially with compounds like epi which has an effect on estrogen in the body, once epi is no longer blocking estrogen at its receptors there is a substantial chance you will get rebound gyno. You need to control estrogen once compounds are discontinued. Not to mention when your bodies trying to restart its own test production you not want ANY of it to convert to estrogen. While you don't need anything as strong as exemstane or letrozole, erase fits in here perfectly.

 

[Aaron330]

The idea of not using an AI during pct is very odd. Especially with compounds like epi which has an effect on estrogen in the body, once epi is no longer blocking estrogen at its receptors there is a substantial chance you will get rebound gyno. You need to control estrogen once compounds are discontinued. Not to mention when your bodies trying to restart its own test production you not want ANY of it to convert to estrogen. While you don't need anything as strong as exemstane or letrozole, erase fits in here perfectly.

Well that's good to know, because I plan to run erase in my PCT. Do you think it's a good idea to wait 2 weeks into it and then run it 3/2/1/1? I've read to wait two weeks to let your natural test start to come back before you start killing off the estrogen

 

[supersaiyan92]

yeah I guess thts a rare side effect but it did happen to me nd it absolutely sucked...it's better to b safe thn sorry besides they r only like $5 at Walmart

yeah I guess my body did respond real good to it considering I waz only using low dosages nd I waz eating like a horse the whole cycle trying to get the most out of it

1 question tht I couldn't find the answer to tho...how r u taking ur doses?...all at once or throughout the day?

 

[Lukef2000]

Well that's good to know, because I plan to run erase in my PCT. Do you think it's a good idea to wait 2 weeks into it and then run it 3/2/1/1? I've read to wait two weeks to let your natural test start to come back before you start killing off the estrogen

Yeah I'd wait a couple week before starting the erase but I'd taper it the other way 1/1/2/2/3 as the more test you create the more AI you'll need.
Oh and just FYI in that article he also states that your "serm" will protect you from gyno which is also incorrect, he implies that all serms will do this when only nolva and raloxifene have an effect on breast tissue growth, clomid and toremifene have absolutely no effect on this whatsoever.

 

[Aaron330]

Yeah I'd wait a couple week before starting the erase but I'd taper it the other way 1/1/2/2/3 as the more test you create the more AI you'll need. Oh and just FYI in that article he also states that your "serm" will protect you from gyno which is also incorrect, he implies that all serms will do this when only nolva and raloxifene have an effect on breast tissue growth, clomid and toremifene have absolutely no effect on this whatsoever.

Wow, really? I've never seen anyone say to taper it like that. Wouldn't that put me at risk for rebound gyno also because once I go from 3 to 0 it would shock my body into producing more estrogen again? Not sure if it works like that but just what I'm fearing. Maybe I could do 1/2/3/2/1

As for the SERMs and gyno issue, I did think that was off too. That's why I'll be taking Clomid and nolva.

Btw, just weighed myself upon waking up, and I'm 195.2 today...up 2.2 lbs

 

[absurd]

0/0/3/2/1/1

I would start 3rd week.

 

[Lukef2000]

Wow, really? I've never seen anyone say to taper it like that. Wouldn't that put me at risk for rebound gyno also because once I go from 3 to 0 it would shock my body into producing more estrogen again? Not sure if it works like that but just what I'm fearing. Maybe I could do 1/2/3/2/1

As for the SERMs and gyno issue, I did think that was off too. That's why I'll be taking Clomid and nolva.

Btw, just weighed myself upon waking up, and I'm 195.2 today...up 2.2 lbs

You shouldn't have to worry about rebound gyno since erase is a suicidal inhibitor. Just be sure to run the erase past your serm by a couple weeks so something like 0/0/1/2/3/2 or something along those lines.

 

[Aaron330]

You shouldn't have to worry about rebound gyno since erase is a suicidal inhibitor. Just be sure to run the erase past your serm by a couple weeks so something like 0/0/1/2/3/2 or something along those lines.

Perfect. That's exactly what I'll do. Thanks for the advice on this man.

 

[Aaron330]

yeah I guess thts a rare side effect but it did happen to me nd it absolutely sucked...it's better to b safe thn sorry besides they r only like $5 at Walmart

yeah I guess my body did respond real good to it considering I waz only using low dosages nd I waz eating like a horse the whole cycle trying to get the most out of it

1 question tht I couldn't find the answer to tho...how r u taking ur doses?...all at once or throughout the day?

That's funny, I was actually going to ask you the same thing. A lot of people say to take most of you dosage an hour before workout, then take the remaining dosage a few hours after. So that's what I've been doing. Two pills pre-workout, 1 pill around 4 hours later. I've also heard some guys say to spread it out evenly, each pill about 4 hours apart so you get a steady flow of it throughout the day, but I don't know how much of a difference that would make.

How did you dose yours? Whatever you did seemed to work lol

 

[Aaron330]

Day 4 - Light Day

Back Squat 6x2 - 265#

Metcon: 3 rounds for time of
10 Handstand Pushups
20 Wall balls, 12lb ball, 15 foot target
50 double unders
10 burpees
10:51

Scale showed 195.2 this morning after waking up. That's a 2.2 lb gain since I started the cycle. Definitely not noticing any real strength gains yet but it feels amazing to see that scale going up again. Feeling tired again today tho...I think this could be an issue throughout the cycle. We'll see. Libido still through the roof, no issues there yet.