First PH Cycle! HAVOC

[dz1553]

First off, apologies for not being an active member on this website just a long time lurker here.. Anyways after about a year of research I've decided to pull the trigger on my first PH cycle: Epistane. Here are some details and feel free to critique. Otherwise join for the ride

On Cycle:

RPN Havoc 30/30/40/40/40
CEL Cycle Assist
Taurine
Fish Oil (throughout)
Whey Protein (throughout)
Opti-Men Multi-Vit (throughout)

Post Cycle:

Clomid 50/50/25/25
PES Erase 0/3/3/3/3
SNS DAA
Purus Labs Organ Shield
Creatine Mono

I think I have all the bases covered and I will elaborate on nutritional info as well as a workout routine after the products arrive!

 

[Drbrology3]

What the poster said above me.. it will take about 2 weeks to kick in.

 

[threeFs]

I ran an epi cycle and logged it.
I'd say that a week at 20 is a waste, too low. I'd start at 30.
Also 4 weeks is too short. You won't see anything or barely anything until 2-3 weeks from starting

 

[Lukef2000]

I ran an epi cycle and logged it.
I'd say that a week at 20 is a waste, too low. I'd start at 30.
Also 4 weeks is too short. You won't see anything or barely anything until 2-3 weeks from starting

This. I started off at 20mg when I ran epi and the first week at 20 is a waste. 40mg seems to be my sweet spot. I didn't start feeling anything until week two at 30mg +

 

[threeFs]

This. I started off at 20mg when I ran epi and the first week at 20 is a waste. 40mg seems to be my sweet spot. I didn't start feeling anything until week two at 30mg +

yes, I ended with 2 weeks at 50, the previous 4 weeks at 40

 

[Lukef2000]

yes, I ended with 2 weeks at 50, the previous 4 weeks at 40

The only thing I noticed between 40 and 50 was crippling back pumps, to the point I couldn't even stand.

 

[threeFs]

The only thing I noticed between 40 and 50 was crippling back pumps, to the point I couldn't even stand.

Yeah, more isn't always better

 

[skat37]

Like everyone else has said 20 is a low dose. Start at 30. I went up to 50 and the side effects kicked in pretty bad so more is not always better. Havoc is legit though. I love that stuff.

 

[dz1553]

Hey guys so my bottle of Havoc just arrived and I am impatiently waiting to take it. My cycle assist along with the other support sups will be here in 2 days... Do you guys think it would be okay to start my cycle today? I want to start this cycle ASAP and I don't think 2 days without support supps will make a difference but I could be wrong! Anybody?

 

[threeFs]

1. Did you get a serm?
2. Did you get another bottle of havoc?

The danger of starting without having your pct ready in hand is you don't leave yourself an out. If you have to stop and you don't have your pct, you're fkd. Nobody plans on stopping but the unknown may happen.

 

[dz1553]

1. Yes, clomid should be here within the week.
2. Yes

I've decided to wait until everything comes to be safe. I was also wondering if I should go out and buy some milk thistle and hawthorne berry. I already ordered cycle assist and organ shield so I assume that should suffice. Am I wrong?

BTW, cycle starts thursday

 

[threeFs]

1. Yes, clomid should be here within the week.
2. Yes

I've decided to wait until everything comes to be safe. I was also wondering if I should go out and buy some milk thistle and hawthorne berry. I already ordered cycle assist and organ shield so I assume that should suffice. Am I wrong?

BTW, cycle starts thursday

good boy. Buy more milk thistle and Hawthorne. Good for ya body not just on cycle anytime

 

[mxracer323]

I'm in my second week of Havoc and loving it. I'm running 30/30/30/40 and may run an extra week at 40mg. I started at 204lbs and I'm at 209lbs currently. I'm already looking a bit fuller and I get stronger every workout. Had a bit of lethargy and mood swing towards the end of the first week but I feel good now. Make sure you take plenty of fish oil as this stuff makes your joints dry. Also, taurine will help a lot with the back pumps.. I noticed those on back and leg day even the first week.

 

[dz1553]

I'm in my second week of Havoc and loving it. I'm running 30/30/30/40 and may run an extra week at 40mg. I started at 204lbs and I'm at 209lbs currently. I'm already looking a bit fuller and I get stronger every workout. Had a bit of lethargy and mood swing towards the end of the first week but I feel good now. Make sure you take plenty of fish oil as this stuff makes your joints dry. Also, taurine will help a lot with the back pumps.. I noticed those on back and leg day even the first week.

Great to hear! I've heard from multiple sources that 5 weeks is the sweet spot so I am pretty much set on that. Have you experienced any other side effects like acne? That is my number 1 concern as of now

 

[mxracer323]

I've always been prone to a pimple or two randomly appearing on my shoulders or sometimes face. That being said, I haven't noticed a difference since starting. I'm also using N2 shampoo to assist in keeping my hair on my head. Since using it I've noticed even less shedding than prior to my cycle.

 

[threeFs]

You teenagers and your GD pimples. Chill the fk out. Wash your face and enjoy your too many hormones. Don't hear any of y'all complaining of limp dck. Go lift and get psy. Quit crying. Y'all got no troubles

 

[philab1709]

Don't mean to hijack your log but having a hard time starting one I started my havoc cycle today. just a quick question dies anyone think that using muscle meds Carnivore beef protein is a problem due to the natural creatine in it? Any insight would be great and terrific thread man I've been following it

 

[Lukef2000]

You teenagers and your GD pimples. Chill the fk out. Wash your face and enjoy your too many hormones. Don't hear any of y'all complaining of limp dck. Go lift and get psy. Quit crying. Y'all got no troubles

Tren rage?? Lol.

 

[threeFs]

Tren rage?? Lol.

It's for real.

 

[dz1553]

So I'm about to start my cycle but I need a bit of PCT advice. How should I time my clomid, daa, and AI?

 

[Lukef2000]

So I'm about to start my cycle but I need a bit of PCT advice. How should I time my clomid, daa, and AI?

It's all personal preference man, I take all mine at night before bed.

 

[dz1553]

Should I even bother easing into the cycle like taking 10 mg the first day 20 the second etc etc? Or dive right into the 30 mg day 1

 

[Lukef2000]

Should I even bother easing into the cycle like taking 10 mg the first day 20 the second etc etc? Or dive right into the 30 mg day 1

30mg from day one.

 

[mxracer323]

I started day 1 at 30mg. Also, I was doing legs yesterday and doing an insane drop set on leg press and with 4 reps to go I suddenly developed a bad headache. I think it may have been in part do to improper breathing but I have noticed more frequent headaches while on Havoc. I'm going to get my bp checked asap to make sure it hasn't spiked.

 

[threeFs]

30mg from day one.

If you lolly gag with 10 here, 20 there, etc. At the end when you're loving the 40 you'll wish you didn't waste time on the low in favor of more time on the higher.

 

[dz1553]

Currently on day 2 and things are going smoothly though I must say I miss PWO.

Also, when does the hunger aspect of Epi start to come into play? I'm shoveling food down my throat and it would surely help if my appetite was higher

 

[mxracer323]

You won't feel the need for your PWO after a week or two. Even when I went through the stage of being lethargic I was fine once I actually got in the gym and started lifting. As far as appetite, I've always starved after 2 or 3 hours without eating so I haven't noticed a difference. By the way, all my compound lifts have went up 20 or more pounds so far and I have still have over two weeks left. Going to bump up to 40mg next week. My morning weight is 210 now, up 6 pounds so far.

 

[threeFs]

I've always taken a pwo no matter what I'm on. Just gotta watch blood pressure. Liquid Hawthorne works perfectly for me.

 

[dz1553]

Here's a little update for you guys

I'm currently on my 5th day of the cycle and things have been going great so far. Nothing really happened the first few days other than a bit of lethargy but my workouts have been more intense and I find myself pushing myself harder and harder. As I'm sitting here hours after my workout I could still feel the stiffness of my muscles and I take that as a good thing. I'm confident that my diet and training is on point and I am hoping to see some serious gains in the coming weeks.

Also, what do you guys think about lifting more frequently on cycle?

 

[mxracer323]

How many days a week do you workout OP? If you feel like you are recovering fine then go ahead.

What is amazing to me is my jump in strength while on cycle. My bench has gone from 275 to 300. My deadlift has gone from 385 to 425. My squat has also gone from 335 to 365. My weight is up 8 pounds with two weeks left. If I can keep half my total gains I will consider this a successful cycle.

 

[dz1553]

So my liver had quite the workout today in celebration of the 4th, but after today I promised myself that I will not drink anymore on cycle.

Tomorrow marks the end of my first week on cycle and I've already been getting complements left and right. My lethargy has been pretty bad and I experienced my first calf pumps today and they are pretty sh*tty. Anyways I can't wait to get back in the gym... Considering doing 2 a days and ignoring the overtraining hype. I'll see how it goes for a week.

 

[absurd]

I ran an epi cycle and logged it.
I'd say that a week at 20 is a waste, too low. I'd start at 30.
Also 4 weeks is too short. You won't see anything or barely anything until 2-3 weeks from starting

I'm running it for 31 days so that's about 4.5 weeks. 20 for the first 3 days then after that I'll up it to 30 for the entire cycle. What do you guys think about taking creatine mono while on the cycle? I'm not taking it by itself but my protein contains 3 grams of creatine per serving and I really don't want to spend any more money on regular whey. I'll probably drink a shake in the morning, in between meals, post workout. Thoughts? Also with epi take it first think the morning with breakfast? I heard it works with fat so I'll take it with eggs and then later in the after noon with fish oil preworkout.

And OP how many grams of taurine are you taking? I'd up your dose if you are getting pumps already. Usually they don't happen until a few weeks into the cycle like week 3.

 

[dz1553]

I think the creatine will be fine, it should not interfere with anything other than a little bit of water retention if anything. Otherwise I think your dosing is fine. I usually take 1-2 grams of taurine a day because I haven't experienced any sort of back pumps yet. I plan on upping my dosage according to how severe they get.

Anyways, week 1 of my cycle is up and the results are definitely noticeable. I started my cycle at 170 lbs and now I'm up to 176.5. No bloat no fat just muscle. My strength has gone up considerably and the side effects have yet to kick in (hoping they don't). At this rate I have very high hopes for the cycle and we'll see how it goes!

 

[Lukef2000]

You'll always gain a lot in the first week as your body stores excess glycogen in the muscle. And for every gram of glycogen your muscle stores there's 2.7g of water, mostly intracellular. It should balance out from here on out.

 

[dz1553]

Friends, I am having some anxiety about a side effect that I have been experiencing with havoc. For the past few days, my scalp has been itchy and I was wondering what that could mean. Im really hoping that it's not a sign of hairloss. I am not prone to MPB but because of epis androgenic effects, it could be messing with my DHT levels.

I've been seeing great results so far and I would hate to end my cycle early. I'm 2 weeks into this cycle, is it okay to continue another 2 weeks on halodrol instead? (Halo is not androgenic)

 

[kenpoengineer]

DZ, a few posts up you "worked out your liver". We all know there is supposed to be no alcohol consumption while on cycle due to adding to liver stress. I wonder if your scalp dryness is due to dehydration? Alcohol consumption can dehydrate. Are you drinking 1 to 1.5 gallons of water a day?

 

[dz1553]

Dehydration is a possibility. I try to drink as much water as I can but I admit I am not very strict with logging my water consumption.

However, I have read an overwhelming number of posts that suggest that scalp itchiness on epistane is common and almost always due to DHT conversion which leads to hairloss. I am at a crossroad at this point and don't know what to do.

If I do choose to start PCT, I may just do 2 weeks of clomid 50/25. I have not experienced much in terms of shut down but I feel like a serm is always necessary but I could be wrong

 

[dz1553]

Update:
So I'm 19 days in and I have definitely made some gains. I am bulking so my diet is in check, I train 5-6 days a week, and I get plenty of rest. I want to ask the veteran Epistane users when they saw the most results because I have high expectations for this product (10-20 lbs).

 

[topcop8p8]

Awesome to see you stuck with it. I had been following your log because I'm planning on running havoc this fall and the pct/support supps I planned on using we're very similar to yours so I'm very interested to see how the rest of your cycle goes. Just out of curiosity, any reason you chose to use purus labs organ shield during pct instead of just continuing to use CEL cycle assist all the way thru?

 

[dz1553]

Awesome to see you stuck with it. I had been following your log because I'm planning on running havoc this fall and the pct/support supps I planned on using we're very similar to yours so I'm very interested to see how the rest of your cycle goes. Just out of curiosity, any reason you chose to use purus labs organ shield during pct instead of just continuing to use CEL cycle assist all the way thru?

I am actually using both cel cycle assist and organ support. The organ support wasn't much money so I threw it in there. I will be continuing both during PCT.

 

[mxracer323]

I finish my run of 30/30/30/30/40 today. My bodyweight went from 204 to 216 while looking a bit leaner. My max bench went from 280 to 315. My deadlift went from 385 to 425 raw and squat from 335 to 365. My sides were never that bad. I will start my PCT with Torem tomorrow. I may run another cycle in the winter as long as I recover well.

 

[dz1553]

Awesome! What week did you see the most gains? Best of luck with PCT.

 

[mxracer323]

In week three it was really obvious I had gotten stronger. I felt stronger after the first week but I really started adding weight to the bar towards the end of week two into week three. My bodyweight reached its max at the start of week three, but I think I would be at 220lbs now if I had been able to eat more. I work a lot and don't have much time to eat while on my 12 hour shifts. Whats strange is that a lot of my sides went away went I jumped to 40mg a day and I felt less moody and lethargic. If I do another cycle I will most likely start at 40 ed.

 

[drewsicle3210]

Sub for reading. Good stuff so far

 

[dz1553]

24 days into my cycle and I must say 40 mg feels great. I've gotten used to the lethargy and the pumps in the gym are insane. My physique looks totally different in the gym and I'm starting to notice an increase in muscle mass and decrease in fat especially in my stomach area. Also, scalp itch was easily taken care of with some Nizoral shampoo (thank god). If things continue to go well I may even bump up to 50 mg towards the end of the cycle to maximize gains.

 

[absurd]

Sounds good except for pumps and lethargy. I'm doing 4.5 weeks of epistane 20 mg for first 3 days then 30mg for rest. Will 20/20/10/10 nolvadex be enough I read standard is 40/40/20/20 and my bottle is only 30ml and 20mg per/ml.

 

[dz1553]

Weirdest thing happened today. As I was lifting I felt a tearing sensation on my upper back and as I looked in the mirror I noticed stretch marks literally forming. Hopefully it's a good thing

 

[BigRigg]

Weirdest thing happened today. As I was lifting I felt a tearing sensation on my upper back and as I looked in the mirror I noticed stretch marks literally forming. Hopefully it's a good thing

Feeling any sort of tearing can never be a good thing

 

[macdady]

Sounds good except for pumps and lethargy. I'm doing 4.5 weeks of epistane 20 mg for first 3 days then 30mg for rest. Will 20/20/10/10 nolvadex be enough I read standard is 40/40/20/20 and my bottle is only 30ml and 20mg per/ml.

20/20/10/10 is good

 

[macdady]

Feeling any sort of tearing can never be a good thing

Rapid growth so skin is stretching maybe? Lol still would weird me out