pro hormones and steroids

[Taccurso]

I am sure you guys get this a lot buy my work out parter and i have taken pro hormones in the past! He seems to think that you dont really have to take a pct he will take it for like a week or two after the cycle is done then will quit and a couple weeks later jump right back into another ph he has taken like 5 different ph in the past 7 months he recently took his last ph and did a pct for two weeks then went right in to a cycle of test! he finished the test a week ago has not started a pct and just ordered a six week supply of deca and another order of test! And no this is not about me it really is about my friend he wont listen to me so i am trying to get more info so i can let him know what to do! or atleast try and give him some info any info yall give will be helpful!

 

[Taccurso]

come on guys help me out here!

 

[EasyEJL]

what help are you looking for? He wont' listen to you, he's not going to listen to "stuff you read on a forum" either.

 

[Taccurso]

idk? im just trying to help him out figured maybe if he saw what yall had to say maybe it would help per sway him a bit!

 

[OafMister]

Time on=Time off.

 

[swollen87]

running steroids/ds/ph back to back with no time off is a surefire way to end up on trt and possibly becoming infertile

 

[Taccurso]

Thanks guys!

 

[Pauliono1]

Basic rule to follow is time on plus pct = time off minimum!

Ontop of the above info of fertility and ending up on trt he will most likely mess his liver up too!

 

[Sweekaters]

running steroids/ds/ph back to back with no time off is a surefire way to end up on trt and possibly becoming infertile

I would like to see any sort of proof of this. 'It happened to a friend' doesn't count.

 

[swollen87]

I would like to see any sort of proof of this. 'It happened to a friend' doesn't count.

There's plenty of information about hpta damage due to steroid abuse.... if everyone could run cycle after cycle with no time off or pct, they would..... go do some research for us and report back your findings

 

[Sweekaters]

There's plenty of information about hpta damage due to steroid abuse.... if everyone could run cycle after cycle with no time off or pct, they would..... go do some research for us and report back your findings

I can find male contraceptive studies done using 125-250mg of testosterone undecanoate weekly for up to two years with return to normal testicular function after. I have never found anything that suggest permanent HPTA damage.

 

[swollen87]

I can find male contraceptive studies done using 125-250mg of testosterone undecanoate weekly for up to two years with return to normal testicular function after. I have never found anything that suggest permanent HPTA damage.

Are we seriously debating hpta damage ?... back to back high dosed/stacked cycles with no pct is gunna give you some problems... ask easye maybe he can help you out....

Try this, see if you'll recover

Tren e 52 wks @600
Then throw as many orals as u can on that .. I'm willing to bet there's permanent hpta damage

 

[Sweekaters]

Are we seriously debating hpta damage ?... back to back high dosed/stacked cycles with no pct is gunna give you some problems... ask easye maybe he can help you out....

Try this, see if you'll recover

Tren e 52 wks @600
Then throw as many orals as u can on that .. I'm willing to bet there's permanent hpta damage

There is absolutely no science to back that. It's just one of the old ass myths that has stuck around steroid boards forever. Here's the contraceptive studies I spoke of:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19293262
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/10/3642

You can read it there, even without PCT their HPTA made full recoveries in all but I think 2 patients. I know the cycle you posted was a joke, but even you did it your HPTA would be able to restore itself after all the nasty tren metabolites were out of your blood. Life-long HRT is a myth, it just doesn't happen outside of freak circumstance.

 

[kain1012]

this is gonna get good

 

[schwellington]

There is absolutely no science to back that. It's just one of the old ass myths that has stuck around steroid boards forever. Here's the contraceptive studies I spoke of:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19293262
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/10/3642

You can read it there, even without PCT their HPTA made full recoveries in all but I think 2 patients. I know the cycle you posted was a joke, but even you did it your HPTA would be able to restore itself after all the nasty tren metabolites were out of your blood. Life-long HRT is a myth, it just doesn't happen outside of freak circumstance.

you do need to remember that testosterone is a bioidentical hormone, and that hormones such as trenbolone nandrolone, etc will effect HPTA and spermotegenisis in a different manner than testosterone.


I know the body will still recover when it comes to testosterone- however infertility due to AAS is not a myth- just incredibly rare

 

[EasyEJL]

There is absolutely no science to back that. It's just one of the old ass myths that has stuck around steroid boards forever. Here's the contraceptive studies I spoke of:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19293262
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/10/3642

You can read it there, even without PCT their HPTA made full recoveries in all but I think 2 patients. I know the cycle you posted was a joke, but even you did it your HPTA would be able to restore itself after all the nasty tren metabolites were out of your blood. Life-long HRT is a myth, it just doesn't happen outside of freak circumstance.

16 weeks, a slow ester testosterone, and 2 out of 12 or 15% didn't recover. Not exactly proof that long term use of other steroids doesn't do worse. Seriously, the one group got a whopping 500mg total for the 16 weeks. Not as suppressive as 100mg a week....

 

[RoadBlocK]

1 minute google yeilds this:

From a TRT website:

.......... testosterone is given from outside, the testes will stop producing their own testosterone. This will shut down sperm production either significantly or completely in nearly all men. This may be a temporary or permanent effect. Younger men, who still plan to have a family, must take this into account when considering testosterone replacement therapy. Some men have "banked" their sperm . Other men have delayed testosterone replacement until they have finished having children. It is important that any man considering a family be very careful in starting testosterone treatment of any kind.

From a steroid website:

Sterility caused by steroids is temporary, of course, and generally reversible....


I dont care for the terms casually thrown around, may be temporary or permanent and generally reversible, they dont inspire confidence in me to not plan on pct after long cycles at high doses.

 

[Sweekaters]

16 weeks, a slow ester testosterone, and 2 out of 12 or 15% didn't recover. Not exactly proof that long term use of other steroids doesn't do worse. Seriously, the one group got a whopping 500mg total for the 16 weeks. Not as suppressive as 100mg a week....

Strong reading comprehension. Everyone in the group of 12 recovered completely. Two did not recover from the group of 855 in the larger first study. 2/855, 0.2%, and they were on doses at least equivalent to HRT for two years.

you do need to remember that testosterone is a bioidentical hormone, and that hormones such as trenbolone nandrolone, etc will effect HPTA and spermotegenisis in a different manner than testosterone.

This is interesting. Do you have any links with more info on this? I was under the impression that the 'hard shut down' from tren and deca was because the metabolites are very suppressive, and tend to linger in the body.

 

[EasyEJL]

Strong reading comprehension. Everyone in the group of 12 recovered completely. Two did not recover from the group of 855 in the larger first study. 2/855, 0.2%, and they were on doses at least equivalent to HRT for two years.

Can you point to where you actually read that? I see nothing past 36 weeks, and even the average total T is well below baseline which to me would me some number didn't recover, or they didn't recover fully, and that is the only chart, based on the short study

So 20 weeks out from the end of hormonal dosing or 5 months T levels appeared to be roughly 10% lower than baseline.

in the efficacy study, there is no mention of hormone levels anywhere, so you have some strong reading comprehension yourself. The only thing that returned was their sperm count, which does not in any way mean that their T level was normal.

 

[Sweekaters]

in the efficacy study, there is no mention of hormone levels anywhere, so you have some strong reading comprehension yourself. The only thing that returned was their sperm count, which does not in any way mean that their T level was normal.

You can find the hormone levels in the full text of the study
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/94/6/1910#T1

 

[EasyEJL]

Hmm interesting that in that table after the recovery period LH + FSH were far higher than baseline, but total T was the same. Didn't notice the table on my first read thru. Also sort of interesting was that the gains in mass they made during the study were all gone by the end of the recovery period

 

[Sweekaters]

Hmm interesting that in that table after the recovery period LH + FSH were far higher than baseline, but total T was the same. Didn't notice the table on my first read thru. Also sort of interesting was that the gains in mass they made during the study were all gone by the end of the recovery period

I'm not trying to support the idea of running a long cycle without PCT. It's pretty obvious that it's a dumbass thing to do. I just think that the horror stories about permanent infertility and life-long HRT from AAS are completely unfounded. It may be a different story with other compound like schwellington says, I wouldn't know as I've done the bulk of my research on testosterone. It would be great if anyone posting something giving that idea any merit.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm not trying to support the idea of running a long cycle without PCT. It's pretty obvious that it's a dumbass thing to do. I just think that the horror stories about permanent infertility and life-long HRT from AAS are completely unfounded. It may be a different story with other compound like schwellington says, I wouldn't know as I've done the bulk of my research on testosterone. It would be great if anyone posting something giving that idea any merit.

I know I had previously looked at studies of HIV patients and patients of other wasting diseases given long term dbol, anadrol or anavar, and at 6 months after discontinuation roughly 80% recovered to 80% or higher of their original levels (was easy to remember because of the 2 80s). I'll have to try and find the studies again though.

 

[Sweekaters]

I know I had previously looked at studies of HIV patients and patients of other wasting diseases given long term dbol, anadrol or anavar, and at 6 months after discontinuation roughly 80% recovered to 80% or higher of their original levels (was easy to remember because of the 2 80s). I'll have to try and find the studies again though.

If you do find them, post them here or PM them, I would definitely be interested. I've read quite a few studies on long term AAS usage to prevent muscle wasting, but there is almost never any sort of follow up.

 

[gymrat827]

his sh!ts going to be messed up for a long long time if not forever.