Morry's pretty much sold on going injectables

[morry]

I've been doing a lot of reading, research, watching a particular documetary and have come to the solid conclusion that not only am I ready to go to injectable AAS, I should have done it earlier.
I know this will come up but my diet is far in check and I'm a very, very disciplined (barring personal tragedies). The reason I included that last was I was down to about 8-9%BF about a month ago and I lost my little brother and started drinking, eating like crap and just not caring for about 4 weeks. Believe it or not, my body needed the rest, but not the fat. So I'm guessing I'm about 12-14%, which is high for me. I'm back at and will be for at least 5 weeks before I start this cycle. Before he died I was at 8-9% BF, benching 345, squatting 425, deadlift 435. This was after a couple PH cycles and I was able to gain about 25 lbs and keep 20 (thanks to Sarms S4, however it is a bit suppressive). I've been training for 11 years always doing one thing or another, not always hitting it as hard as I have been, but pretty much staying active besides little spots of time here and there. Just to give you a glimpse of what I have been able to accomplish, my first year of college I as 163, now I'm 205-210 solid. I think I could say that I have a grasp on how to get my body bigger. I have progress pics on my profile.
There is a thread on here that I wrote that details my diet and my anti pseudo(with a little lump) gyno flare that I was able to eradicate this summer. If you want to know more about my training and diet, it is in that thread.
During these next weeks before my cycle I will be cutting hard and training harder so I will be ready to put on some fat and LBM.
Short story, training is a 3 day split consisting of super sets and circuits

On to the cycle,

weeks 1-10= test e 500mg (2ML) per week @ 250mg twice a week (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering)
weeks 1-4 = test p 100mg (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering) EOD
weeks 2-10= HCG 500mcgs per week @ 250mcgs twice a week (ordering 5000iu and will reconstitute with 10ml BW making each shot .5ml
weeks 1-12= Liquid Letro at .5ml (.625mg) ED
weeks 13-20= Liquid Tamoxifen [30.4 molecular weight because it is the citrate verion, for a total of 20mg of actual tamoxifen] (40/40/20/20/10/10/5/5)[depends on how I feel, I may stop tamox @ week 16 and just stick with S1 as it is non suppresive)
weeks 12-20 = Osta S1 Sarms (takes a week to start working, maybe cut this shorter, not sure yet)


Because I fell off the band wagon for 3 or 4 weeks, I want to spare my liver as much as possible so I elected to go nothing but injectables. Test P should kick start me off till week four when the Test E kicks in.
I am prone to gyno, letro at a very low dows (.625mg) ED has kept this from happening time and time again. I'm pretty married to the idea of running it throughout (including the 2 weeks after last injection to account for the Test e disipatting).
By week 13 my liver should be back to where it needs to be to handle Tamoxifen again.
HCG is ran to keep shut down from completely occuring and help bounce back faster, but NOT FOR PCT (I have some research to back this up)
S1 will help me keep my gains
More importantly, diet will help me gain and keep my gains.

So my question is, would anybody modify this in any way? If you would, why and what research (you don't have to post links, just wondering) have you read to back it up (I dont' want bro-science, I'm pretty sick of it)?

:dump: I'm off to drop one, feed back is appreciated. If you are going to flame me in one way or another, please have your research and reasoning in order. Otherwise, I may or may not respond.

If I get enough feedback, I will log the crap out of this cycle.

 

[schwellington]

I really like the idea of kicking it off with test p, nice choice, everything else looks in order IMO, glad you didnt choose orals as ur liver probly took a little damage drinking, but you will recover soon enough.


some people grow on test, some dont (at least thisi s what ive heard????) but i think you will grow i would look at at leas 10 lbs lbm


anyways i think you should log it i shoulda used some prop to kick my cycle with dbol as well


o well

two thumbs up

 

[morry]

Thanks schwell. I am seriously considering logging it, for myself and others who are thinking about getting into pinning AAS.

I am a little curious because I have read exactly what you are talking about. That some grow on test and some don't. I just don't understand the science behind it. I mean it is test, naturally occurring in the body. If you don't react to it, wouldn't you have a vag and boobies? Is diet to explain? I have read that guys who are tyring to keep a lower profile while on cycle will limit thier intake of calories so they only gain 15lbs overall instead of 20 or 25, but the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for that is maybe they are cops or something. Maybe they could be drug tested or whatever because they were already pricks and the test made them super pricks so they shot some poor guy that decided to cuss at them, then they get tested for steroids? Far fethched, I know, but seriously, how can people not react to or grow from test? Any vets in here with the science behind this?
If people start asking me about my size (I've gotten questions of just running orals for 4 or 5 weeks), I'll just use the old creatine, diet, and exercise. Who cares what they think!

 

[lyfespan]

just started my first pinned cycle test cyp 500wk and deca 500wk drol 65ed

I will never do another oral only cycle. pinning wuz just way too easy

 

[schwellington]

your body recognizes it as test- but i dont think it is bioidentical- or maybe it is.....either way you should grow dude

 

[ambulldog]

the one thing id change is your research stuff. its ez enough to get script grade stuff and you'll know whats in it. im not knocking research stuff as i know a lot of people use them but id rather know exactly what im getting and not have to worry about how it was made

 

[morry]

the one thing id change is your research stuff. its ez enough to get script grade stuff and you'll know whats in it. im not knocking research stuff as i know a lot of people use them but id rather know exactly what im getting and not have to worry about how it was made

I'm with ya on that bro and I just avoided it because of that for a long time, but my supllier I have been dealing with for 3 or 4 years and not once did I have to question the stuff. Always was accurate as far as I could tell. And I mean this not bc I had a lab analysis done, but because I read about the dosages and what levels certain things happened; I was right on where I should have been. I did learn the hard way tho. I went through 3 vendors before this one and got bunk **** from them all at one point or another. The one I have now, I trust implicitly. Honestly if i wasn't going to order the SARMs S1, I probably would just by the tabs. Hmmm.....I'll think about that one maybe I will get the pill version this time....I'll def take a look.

Good advice and on point.

Thank you for the input and overall approval man, I appreciate it!

 

[UnrealMachine]

looks like a lot of letro. Just remember that letro is bad for your lipids, try to use as little as possible. Half a mL everyday for several months is a lot.

 

[EasyEJL]

I have read that guys who are tyring to keep a lower profile while on cycle will limit thier intake of calories so they only gain 15lbs overall instead of 20 or 25, but the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for that is maybe they are cops or something. ...
Any vets in here with the science behind this?

its usually more about how much you keep. Gaining a little over 1lb a week on test is easier to keep a higher % of after PCT than gaining 2lbs a week. Even just dietarily, its easier to modify your normal diet to suit the slower gains. 15 lean pounds in 3 months is still pretty noticeable, particularly the leaner you start off at.

 

[ZamaMan]

your body recognizes it as test- but i dont think it is bioidentical- or maybe it is.....either way you should grow dude

What????!!!!!


Here's my thinking. Nearly everyone will grow on test, it's just not as explosive as an oral. Those who say they can't a vast majority of them don't due to training and diet. I'm not sure if guys like unreal are an exception... Because he is seemly at his genetic limit for muscle mass. Most people can only gain around 50lb lbm. So yeah only strong orals will bring him past that limit and probably only temporaryily.

 

[schwellington]

What????!!!!!


Here's my thinking. Nearly everyone will grow on test, it's just not as explosive as an oral. Those who say they can't a vast majority of them don't due to training and diet. I'm not sure if guys like unreal are an exception... Because he is seemly at his genetic limit for muscle mass. Most people can only gain around 50lb lbm. So yeah only strong orals will bring him past that limit and probably only temporaryily.

testosterone the injectable-compare the chemical structure to that of natural testosterone....i think they are bioidentical

 

[UnrealMachine]

^could be some truth in that, I have problems going beyond 230 pounds while keeping my BF down, but it makes me wonder how the **** other bodybuilders can get so much bigger.

I have read on the forums a lot though and I have encountered a handful of other guys who just don't make gains on test. Like me they get acne and a raging libido but the gains just don't come. Other AAS will work on them just fine but as far as mass and strength goes... its like lifting naturally.

I have ran test 3 times now
1) test prop 100mg ed for 6+ weeks can't remember. I was bulking, weighing around 235 at the time, gained no weight (maybe it was 2 pounds?). I was able to add 20 pounds on my squats, and 10 pounds on some other lifts, 0 pounds on some lifts. But i gotta say, it had been a long time since i had squatted so heavily and consistently so making some gains doesn't surprise me...
It felt like natural lifting.
Just really really horny and had an acne breakout
2) test and masteron stack, went over 1g a week on the test, was eating for a bulk (4000 cals for me, 350g of protein a day all that jazz). Kickstarted with SD which went great. Soon as I'm off SD my weight drops a few pounds and eat as I may, I cannot recover any of the weight.
Worse, it's a battle just to maintain the strength gains from superdrol. Eventually I think i had some good arm and back workouts but the rate of progress was so close to natural i didn't really notice or care.
Oh and I ended up losing strength on my benchpress. Test couldn't maintain the strength gains there. Even 1g of test. Pathetic.
3) Long ass recomp cycle... Test is a great base but really on its own it doesn't impart any gains

I have heard a million times "everybody responds to test, you are just doing something wrong" that and everybody said my test was bunk (which didn't make sense since my libido was crazy). Well I got bloodwork done and guess what, taking only 325mg of test a week my levels were off the charts so obviously the test was legit.

So that's my experience with test. I can tell it's there... But in the gym it doesn't really do anything and I don't gain much faster than natural lifting.

Honestly I think Ostarine is stronger than testosterone for me, even 1g of test, I'll take ostarine over test any day. Ostarine doesn't give me pimples and gyno either.

That's my experience. Then again Epi and Halodrol were the same for me, they just couldn't put a pound of strength or size on me.
I DONT KNOW WHY.

SD/PP/Tren/M1T have all worked fantastic. Massive size gains, strength gains on a weekly basis, sick pumps... These substances can change my physique over time.

Test, didn't change my physique over time. These days I view it as a base and nothing more.

Sorry for the rant, I hope it is informative somehow.

 

[schwellington]

What????!!!!!


Here's my thinking. Nearly everyone will grow on test, it's just not as explosive as an oral. Those who say they can't a vast majority of them don't due to training and diet. I'm not sure if guys like unreal are an exception... Because he is seemly at his genetic limit for muscle mass. Most people can only gain around 50lb lbm. So yeah only strong orals will bring him past that limit and probably only temporaryily.

If this where true zama how the hell would pro's continue to grow? they are WAY past their genetic limit....but they keep growing- and im quite certain they dont use orals only

 

[ZamaMan]

If this where true zama how the hell would pro's continue to grow? they are WAY past their genetic limit....but they keep growing- and im quite certain they dont use orals only

are yo kidding me!!! they are on well over a gram of test EW..and sometimes way over... Tren Ace is stronger than almost all orals, theres Deca, EQ, insulin...and most important HGH. Without HGH we would not have 280 contest weight guys period.

Theres plenty of injectables stronger than Test theres no doubt about it.
Im just saying that I feel unreal may have different view of test had he tried it at 170lb versus a 230 lb monster. but we can only speculate as to that. Bear in mind these are just my theories as I have never used an injectable.

 

[schwellington]

no these are my thoeries too.... but you said that orals would only keep unreal above his genetic limit for a short time then he would loose it...my argument was that the pros are way past their limit and they continue to grow and im quite certain they dont use orals only


mehhh im not doing just test lol

dbol
deca
test
methylcumonyourfaceadrol
lolololololLOLOLOLOL

 

[morry]

So as a first cycle, test p and test e aren't advisable? I have responded well to Epi, and even better to M1t.
What injectable should I add? I did go to WE last night but they wouldn't take it over the interent. I have to go to the location, so I'll make time to do that today. I'm all for stacking in one more item, but what?
I want to put on size and lean out. EQ maybe?

 

[GeekPoop]

ditch prop at the start.

use some type of oral dbol / ot / drol / sd

if you want, end your cycle with prop and e cuz takes 2 weeks for enanthate ester to clear and 3-4 days for propionate ester to clear.


either way, id start with and oral and end with another oral leading up into pct

 

[Dragon13]

Thanks schwell. I am seriously considering logging it, for myself and others who are thinking about getting into pinning AAS.

I am a little curious because I have read exactly what you are talking about. That some grow on test and some don't. I just don't understand the science behind it. I mean it is test, naturally occurring in the body. If you don't react to it, wouldn't you have a vag and boobies? Is diet to explain? I have read that guys who are tyring to keep a lower profile while on cycle will limit thier intake of calories so they only gain 15lbs overall instead of 20 or 25, but the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for that is maybe they are cops or something. Maybe they could be drug tested or whatever because they were already pricks and the test made them super pricks so they shot some poor guy that decided to cuss at them, then they get tested for steroids? Far fethched, I know, but seriously, how can people not react to or grow from test? Any vets in here with the science behind this?
If people start asking me about my size (I've gotten questions of just running orals for 4 or 5 weeks), I'll just use the old creatine, diet, and exercise. Who cares what they think!

Everyone will grow on test. Your logic is spot-on, there is no such thing as a non-responder to test. Some people may have genetic variances (high SHBG, low AR density, differing AR sub-types - this part gets complex - etc), but these are very rare. Unreal Machine on this site may be one of them.

For the most part, though, the "non-responders" to test either are cycling too frequently, not eating enough, or are training like crap, or all of the above.

 

[Dragon13]

So as a first cycle, test p and test e aren't advisable?

Don't listen to this nonsense. The chances you won't grow on 800 mg/test per week are extremely small. In fact, I'd lower the dose, and only add to it if needed down the road. Frontload the enth, or kick with the prop. 500-600 mg/week/

I want to put on size and lean out. EQ maybe?

No. Do one or the other. Recomping is very difficult, and I swear I've said this a hundred times by now: you will likely lose some fat, and you will likely gain some muscle, but you will likely be satisfied with neither result.

 

[GeekPoop]

i not a big fan of EQ, it seems like some pansy stacker IME.

want appetite increase? smoke pot

want lean mass? theres better steroids other there for the $

just my .02 here

 

[morry]

Don't listen to this nonsense. The chances you won't grow on 800 mg/test per week are extremely small. In fact, I'd lower the dose, and only add to it if needed down the road. Frontload the enth, or kick with the prop. 500-600 mg/week/



No. Do one or the other. Recomping is very difficult, and I swear I've said this a hundred times by now: you will likely lose some fat, and you will likely gain some muscle, but you will likely be satisfied with neither result.

Sweet, I'll stick to the game plan, maybe use lesst Test P if sides start to mound up, but if I lower the dosage I will lengthen how long I take it.

I feel ya on the recomp. I've been very, very lucky in the past. I can recomp like what. My grandfather was the same way. It pisses my older brother off bc I can go from 185 to 210 in 6 or 7 months and drop body fat while doing it. I attribute this with my high intesity workouts with supersets and circuits. If this will help me recover, I'll F[_]CKing kill this cycle.

Thanks for the input. I hope I repsond well to test, but at 800 you're right, how could I not. We will see......

I'm finalizing my order shortly....

 

[morry]

i not a big fan of EQ, it seems like some pansy stacker IME.

want appetite increase? smoke pot

want lean mass? theres better steroids other there for the $

just my .02 here

Who says I don't smoke????:scool:

 

[morry]

Everything is on order to get things going. Now it's a waiting game. I was able to get Osta at 50mn/ml 30 ml for 89.00. My rats will be happy.

I also am switching up PCT becaise I always feel like I rebound hard and this thread had a very good PCT put together, but I will keep a SERM on hand and will already have letro just in case

1).6MG of cjc-1295dac. GH releaser
2).1 bottle of Sarms s1. Anabolic
3).1 bottle of forma-stanzolol A.I and 5-alpha reductase inhibitor.
4). 2 HCGenerate
5).1 Bulbine natalensis Natural A.I and most powerfull test booster on the market.


Taken from http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/161473-future-pct-post.html
I love to read Russian's logs, they are great. I was already going to use Sarms S1 and taper to a serm,but this seems like it will help me recover faster and more evenly. THe pct is bt 350 and 400, but if it helps me keep the gains, shed fat and gain weight, I'm more than willing to give it a shot.

 

[schwellington]

Everything is on order to get things going. Now it's a waiting game. I was able to get Osta at 50mn/ml 30 ml for 89.00. My rats will be happy.

I also am switching up PCT becaise I always feel like I rebound hard and this thread had a very good PCT put together, but I will keep a SERM on hand and will already have letro just in case

1).6MG of cjc-1295dac. GH releaser
2).1 bottle of Sarms s1. Anabolic
3).1 bottle of forma-stanzolol A.I and 5-alpha reductase inhibitor.
4). 2 HCGenerate
5).1 Bulbine natalensis Natural A.I and most powerfull test booster on the market.


Taken from http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/161473-future-pct-post.html
I love to read Russian's logs, they are great. I was already going to use Sarms S1 and taper to a serm,but this seems like it will help me recover faster and more evenly. THe pct is bt 350 and 400, but if it helps me keep the gains, shed fat and gain weight, I'm more than willing to give it a shot.

Ey Yo Morry, I wonder how many childlike cok suckers will come to your thread?!!!?:salook:

screw em all

 

[morry]

I guess time will tell. I tell em to bring it on. I just don't like people popping in, making a stupid comment, maybe posting some weird study to prove thier point and then acting like there is now way they are wrong.
Ya know, my best friend's mom passed away about 5 years ago. They didn't catch her cancer early enough to have impacted it where she might have lived much longer. They just thought she was normally sick with complications. Not cancer. Well, when they found out and let her know it was now in stage 4, she had mere months to live. My best friend devastated asked the Doctor why the **** is his mom going to die because they made a mistake? He said the Doctor looked at him and said, "Honestly I'd love to give you a reasonable answer, but the only truth is we are 'practicing' medicine. All we are doing is the practicing the best way we know how and we make mistakes. I'm sorry"
No study or data will apply to every single person ever. This just isn't possible. We are just as different as we are alike meaning we can have general assumptions because of past events, but when it comes right down to it, we have no effin clue until we are actually in the situation ourselves. Then and only then, while we are "practicing" will we get the empirical, individual results that we all spend so much time trying to predict.

Make good choices, read a lot, and ask questions, but never assume because you have heard/read it from a board memeber, a stufy or a qualified doctor that it is exactly what is going to happen.

One hter can come or eff it, all can come. Hate, love, cheer, boo, scream, whisper, argue, urge, complain, and congratulate. It's makes the boards worth it. Albeit aggrevating at time, but we have all learned to deal I think.

Just be constructive.

Just my 2 cents

 

[schwellington]

I guess time will tell. I tell em to bring it on. I just don't like people popping in, making a stupid comment, maybe posting some weird study to prove thier point and then acting like there is now way they are wrong.
Ya know, my best friend's mom passed away about 5 years ago. They didn't catch her cancer early enough to have impacted it where she might have lived much longer. They just thought she was normally sick with complications. Not cancer. Well, when they found out and let her know it was now in stage 4, she had mere months to live. My best friend devastated asked the Doctor why the **** is his mom going to die because they made a mistake? He said the Doctor looked at him and said, "Honestly I'd love to give you a reasonable answer, but the only truth is we are 'practicing' medicine. All we are doing is the practicing the best way we know how and we make mistakes. I'm sorry"
No study or data will apply to every single person ever. This just isn't possible. We are just as different as we are alike meaning we can have general assumptions because of past events, but when it comes right down to it, we have no effin clue until we are actually in the situation ourselves. Then and only then, while we are "practicing" will we get the empirical, individual results that we all spend so much time trying to predict.

Make good choices, read a lot, and ask questions, but never assume because you have heard/read it from a board memeber, a stufy or a qualified doctor that it is exactly what is going to happen.

One hter can come or eff it, all can come. Hate, love, cheer, boo, scream, whisper, argue, urge, complain, and congratulate. It's makes the boards worth it. Albeit aggrevating at time, but we have all learned to deal I think.

Just be constructive.

Just my 2 cents

Is you a philosopher or sumtin? Cause that^^^^^ sounds like some modern day Socrates on the real :goodpost:

 

[Movin_weight]

Yeah bro, if there is one thing I've learned it's that studies only mean somethin if there are half a dozen similar studies showing the same thing, and even then it's not set in stone. Ill be conducting a masters thesis next summer, and god knows I'll make plenty of mistakes, but there's a good chance it could get published. The people conducting these studies are not super scientists who live in a laboratory, but mostly grad students and professors who aren't perfect.

Anyways, your cycle looks good although I would definitely opt to run it for longer. Your just gonna be gettin in the zone at 10 weeks. I'd say 12-14 would be more productive, since your already planning to have hcg.

I frontloaded test e with no oral jumpstart and felt it within the first week, but the estrogen sides hit hard as well. In the future I prob won't do it again.

As for people not growing on test, i believe anyone can grow to an extent... But test is not that anabolic. Pretty much every steroid designed has had the aim of improving the anabolic/androgenic ratio of test. Someone who has ran loads of orals, which are 100+ times as anabolic may not react as well to test. I definitely grew, but it was slow and non-dramatic. Pros and experiences cyclers use test as a base to minimize side effects, and opt for more anabolic options such as deca/tren

 

[morry]

Is you a philosopher or sumtin? Cause that^^^^^ sounds like some modern day Socrates on the real :goodpost:

Thanks bro, but you know me. I'm pretty down to earth and when and if I decide to argue I realize I may be wrong. I just don't think a lot of people on here are ready to accept the fact that it is a possibility they are wrong. I am. I think we all should be.

You guys have me convinced. I'll log this cycle. I will be honest though,I don't keep a journal of my lifts. I just remember that ****. It's one of those weird things I've always been able to do.Knowing your 15 friends phone numbers off the top of your head in 1st grade, yeah, me and numbers get along. So maybe I'll just post my PR's, weight, mood, and injection info. If more is wanted, I'l break down and write it all down if there is enough people folllowing. I want to make a difference with those that are still on the fence about using injectables.

Thank you for the kind words bro and sorry for talking your head off earlier today.

 

[morry]

Yeah bro, if there is one thing I've learned it's that studies only mean somethin if there are half a dozen similar studies showing the same thing, and even then it's not set in stone. Ill be conducting a masters thesis next summer, and god knows I'll make plenty of mistakes, but there's a good chance it could get published. The people conducting these studies are not super scientists who live in a laboratory, but mostly grad students and professors who aren't perfect.

Anyways, your cycle looks good although I would definitely opt to run it for longer. Your just gonna be gettin in the zone at 10 weeks. I'd say 12-14 would be more productive, since your already planning to have hcg.

I frontloaded test e with no oral jumpstart and felt it within the first week, but the estrogen sides hit hard as well. In the future I prob won't do it again.

As for people not growing on test, i believe anyone can grow to an extent... But test is not that anabolic. Pretty much every steroid designed has had the aim of improving the anabolic/androgenic ratio of test. Someone who has ran loads of orals, which are 100+ times as anabolic may not react as well to test. I definitely grew, but it was slow and non-dramatic. Pros and experiences cyclers use test as a base to minimize side effects, and opt for more anabolic options such as deca/tren

Well said my man. I technically will be frontloading with test bc the short ester of P over E, so the first 4 weeks it will be 800mg but the ethanate will take longer to accumulate, so I will see.

You really think 12-14 weeks for the first cycle? I honestly don't have a problem with that. I'll need some more gear, but that can be solved. Honestly, if 500mg is too much bc of sides I will lower the dosage and lengthen the cycle. If it seems fine, then maybe one of my bros on here will facilitate aquisition of some more so I don't have to get a small amount from place X, ya know? Either way this is all just said as a theory as I have and never will use illegal substances. :147:

Thank you for the input, always appreciated.
I wanted to steer clear of deca for now bc I want to know how my body will respond to test p/e and I'm way to much of an infant in the injectable world to take on tren. Not yet, maybe never.
Now if this all goes well, I could see myself having a waltz with some good old test and deca.

Morry

 

[Movin_weight]

I mean in my oppinion your not going to prolong your recovery any by adding a few weeks, with the use of hcg... So why not take advanage of your first cycle. Your serum test levels will climb each week throughout the entire cycle from the enanthate ester, and from my T only cycle, I remember around week 8 or 9 was when it really started to hit hard.

But then again their is nothing wrong with keepin it short and gettin a feel for it, and then making the decision for your next cycle

 

[tim1985]

Run the HCG till week 12(remember 2 weeks for the enanthate ester to clear, I noticed I didn't feel like shit until the 3rd week after my last injection)

I wouldn't use letro, it is very strong and crushing estrogen can inhibit gains, but if you do start sprouting tits the letro will come into play. .6mg is a low dose and I have used this dose on cycle before, but I still would only use it if its really needed. If your nips get sensitive I would opt for tamoxifen @10mg ed while on cycle for gyno protection. Up it to 20mg ed if 10mg doesn't rid you of your nip sensitivity.

I would include clomid in pct as well.

I am not familiar with Sarms so I can't comment on that.

I like the prop kick start, it should work well for you.

weeks 1-10= test e 500mg (2ML) per week @ 250mg twice a week (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering)
weeks 1-4 = test p 100mg (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering) EOD
weeks 2-10= HCG 500mcgs per week @ 250mcgs twice a week (ordering 5000iu and will reconstitute with 10ml BW making each shot .5ml
weeks 1-12= Liquid Letro at .5ml (.625mg) ED
weeks 13-20= Liquid Tamoxifen [30.4 molecular weight because it is the citrate verion, for a total of 20mg of actual tamoxifen] (40/40/20/20/10/10/5/5)[depends on how I feel, I may stop tamox @ week 16 and just stick with S1 as it is non suppresive)
weeks 12-20 = Osta S1 Sarms (takes a week to start working, maybe cut this shorter, not sure yet)

 

[schwellington]

Run the HCG till week 12(remember 2 weeks for the enanthate ester to clear, I noticed I didn't feel like shit until the 3rd week after my last injection)

I wouldn't use letro, it is very strong and crushing estrogen can inhibit gains, but if you do start sprouting tits the letro will come into play. If your nips get sensitive I would opt for tamoxifen @10mg ed while on cycle for gyno protection. Up it to 20mg ed if 10mg doesn't rid you of your nip sensitivity.
I would include clomid in pct as well.

I am not familiar with Sarms so I can't comment on that.

I like the prop kick start, it should work well for you.

weeks 1-10= test e 500mg (2ML) per week @ 250mg twice a week (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering)
weeks 1-4 = test p 100mg (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering) EOD
weeks 2-10= HCG 500mcgs per week @ 250mcgs twice a week (ordering 5000iu and will reconstitute with 10ml BW making each shot .5ml
weeks 1-12= Liquid Letro at .5ml (.625mg) ED
weeks 13-20= Liquid Tamoxifen [30.4 molecular weight because it is the citrate verion, for a total of 20mg of actual tamoxifen] (40/40/20/20/10/10/5/5)[depends on how I feel, I may stop tamox @ week 16 and just stick with S1 as it is non suppresive)
weeks 12-20 = Osta S1 Sarms (takes a week to start working, maybe cut this shorter, not sure yet)

tim......ur fat

 

[tim1985]

tim......ur fat

Oh boy.... I better go throw dinner back up

 

[morry]

Oh boy.... I better go throw dinner back up

LMFAO :lol:

 

[schwellington]

Oh boy.... I better go throw dinner back up

LOL and a good sport:drillsergeant:

 

[morry]

I mean in my oppinion your not going to prolong your recovery any by adding a few weeks, with the use of hcg... So why not take advanage of your first cycle. Your serum test levels will climb each week throughout the entire cycle from the enanthate ester, and from my T only cycle, I remember around week 8 or 9 was when it really started to hit hard.

But then again their is nothing wrong with keepin it short and gettin a feel for it, and then making the decision for your next cycle

Lower the dose while on test P? Then I can just run it longer? Or 300 mg p and 500 mg e EW and stay at 10 weeks or order more and keep everything else contant?
I'm thinking 10 should be good for a first go. If the sides are too much, I will lower the dose and lengthen the cycle.

Tim,

Thanks for the advice. I posted a different PCT on the last page. It was one written by rRussianStar. I linked the thread on my post too.
I have tamox on hand right now. I may switch to EOD or E3D with the letro.
What do you think of the PCT he wrote, considering I will keep tamox on hand but won't use it if this PCT works like it supposed to.

I also am switching up PCT becaise I always feel like I rebound hard and this thread had a very good PCT put together, but I will keep a SERM on hand and will already have letro just in case

1).6MG of cjc-1295dac. GH releaser
2).1 bottle of Sarms s1. Anabolic
3).1 bottle of forma-stanzolol A.I and 5-alpha reductase inhibitor.
4). 2 HCGenerate
5).1 Bulbine natalensis Natural A.I and most powerfull test booster on the market.


Taken from The future of PCT (Post cycle therapy) Is here, How to run the perfect PCT.
I love to read Russian's logs, they are great. I was already going to use Sarms S1 and taper to a serm,but this seems like it will help me recover faster and more evenly. THe pct is bt 350 and 400, but if it helps me keep the gains, shed fat and gain weight, I'm more than willing to give it a shot.

 

[tim1985]

Morry, I have no experience with peptides so I cannot comment on them. I have not used any of the other products mentioned either. I prefer cheap and effective, I'd go with nolva and clomid over natty stuff any day. I know the formastane is effective for controlling estrogen, but there are cheaper options out there. 350-400 for a pct is too rich for my blood lol

 

[ZamaMan]

Morry, I have no experience with peptides so I cannot comment on them. I have not used any of the other products mentioned either. I prefer cheap and effective, I'd go with nolva and clomid over natty stuff any day. I know the formastane is effective for controlling estrogen, but there are cheaper options out there. 350-400 for a pct is too rich for my blood lol

Couldn't agree more.

 

[mich29]

damn I'm late to the party but I bought the beer so its all good.this looks to be a great thread in the making.def subbin

 

[morry]

Couldn't agree more.

I'm thinking the same thing, but the logic behind it sounds right.

Maybe instead of Forma stazonol (or however it's spelled), I'll use Exemestane. I can get that from the same place I'll get my cjc195 DAC from for PCT.

But an AI followed by a suicide AI seems like the best way to keep estrogen lower as it doens't elevate estrogen levels. It tries to but it can't (bc you get more endogenous test produced to be converted, but it never does so). SERMs only bind to the receptor and when a SERMS isn't there any longer, there is an elevated level of estrogen that can now bind to the receptor.

I'm just thinking out loud. If the Suicide AI is effective, wouldn't this be better than using a SERM?

 

[morry]

damn I'm late to the party but I bought the beer so its all good.this looks to be a great thread in the making.def subbin

Mich, glad you are here.

2 more weeks and I should be able to start. I'm cutting hard right now. All natural, just some protein and vitamins. I was about 215, down to 200 in about 2.5 weeks. 2 more to go, but the fat loss is slowing, I'm thinking the last couple weeks I might only be down another 7 lbs if I'm lucky, but I'm training extremely hard.
I will break a little for the holiday, but nothing major. Just work it into my normal breaks. I may still do cardio. Not sure yet. I'll listen to my body and see what happens.....

 

[thundergod]

I like the prop kick start, it should work well for you.

weeks 1-10= test e 500mg (2ML) per week @ 250mg twice a week (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering)
weeks 1-4 = test p 100mg (1ML @ the concentration I am ordering) EOD

I may switch to EOD or E3D with the letro.

First of all.......subbed. And excited to see you pop your injectable cherry. :mischievous:

I like the Prop kick start as well. I highly advise you do this. You will "feel" it within the second week and this will highly motivate you on your lifting. I also agree with you that you should dose the letro only EOD or E3D especially with a dose like .62 mgs. That's too much for every day dosing. If I were to dose it every day, I'd only do .25 mgs. It lowers estrogen by up to 90+%. That's strong shizz mang!!

Personally I'm on the tail end of a blast cycle and at the moment I'm doing a full gram of Test-Cyp per week with Letro @.62 mgs, E3D and pulse-dosing 20 mgs. of Halotestin pre-workout only 3 days per week.

And it's kicking ass!!!!:buttkick:

Log your cycle dude!!! I'm anxious to see your results. :147:

 

[SouthernCharm]

Everyone will grow on test. Your logic is spot-on, there is no such thing as a non-responder to test. Some people may have genetic variances (high SHBG, low AR density, differing AR sub-types - this part gets complex - etc), but these are very rare. Unreal Machine on this site may be one of them.

For the most part, though, the "non-responders" to test either are cycling too frequently, not eating enough, or are training like crap, or all of the above.

Maaaannn... Well said...

I don't believe in non responders to test. What's even funnier, is when they call test a glorified test booster lol..

Morry looks like a good cycle, I agree with Unreal about the letro being a little high, honestly unless youre estro sensitive just keep it on hand and use as needed. Your body needs a certain amount of estrogen to grow, to keep your joints from becoming brittle and sore all the time, and too low levels will f**k with your lipids..

Anway man whenever this gets started im down wit it cuzz!! :aargh::aargh:

 

[SouthernCharm]

First of all.......subbed. And excited to see you pop your injectable cherry. :mischievous:

I like the Prop kick start as well. I highly advise you do this. You will "feel" it within the second week and this will highly motivate you on your lifting. I also agree with you that you should dose the letro only EOD or E3D especially with a dose like .62 mgs. That's too much for every day dosing. If I were to dose it every day, I'd only do .25 mgs. It lowers estrogen by up to 90+%. That's strong shizz mang!!

Personally I'm on the tail end of a blast cycle and at the moment I'm doing a full gram of Test-Cyp per week with Letro @.62 mgs, E3D and pulse-dosing 20 mgs. of Halotestin pre-workout only 3 days per week.

And it's kicking ass!!!!:buttkick:

Log your cycle dude!!! I'm anxious to see your results. :147:

uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh that sounds nice!!! :aargh:

sc wants some halo lol

 

[GLHF]

i really like the idea of that cycle. i was actually planing on running something similar. everything looks really good, youll have a great time.

 

[morry]

First of all.......subbed. And excited to see you pop your injectable cherry. :mischievous:

I like the Prop kick start as well. I highly advise you do this. You will "feel" it within the second week and this will highly motivate you on your lifting. I also agree with you that you should dose the letro only EOD or E3D especially with a dose like .62 mgs. That's too much for every day dosing. If I were to dose it every day, I'd only do .25 mgs. It lowers estrogen by up to 90+%. That's strong shizz mang!!

Personally I'm on the tail end of a blast cycle and at the moment I'm doing a full gram of Test-Cyp per week with Letro @.62 mgs, E3D and pulse-dosing 20 mgs. of Halotestin pre-workout only 3 days per week.

And it's kicking ass!!!!:buttkick:

Log your cycle dude!!! I'm anxious to see your results. :147:

Damnint. Wish I wasn't avoiding anything hepatoxic bc i drank for 3 weeks straight a while back. Bad mistake I know, I have my reasons.....

 

[schwellington]

Damnint. Wish I wasn't avoiding anything hepatoxic bc i drank for 3 weeks straight a while back. Bad mistake I know, I have my reasons.....

3 weeks straight- i can almost promise u ur liver values have stablized





of course depending on what you drank- we have talked a little about this either way dude ur going to love it

 

[mich29]

can't wait for this to start

 

[morry]

3 weeks straight- i can almost promise u ur liver values have stablized





of course depending on what you drank- we have talked a little about this either way dude ur going to love it

Think so? Huh.

Not sure a source for this stuff. & I can't ask.

My PMs work

can't wait for this to start

you and me both....

 

[thundergod]

Not sure a source for this stuff. & I can't ask.
My PMs work

Do you not even have your gear yet?

I would think it's time to get that taken care of. :thumbsup: