Natural 42 year old looking to jump into a MILD PH run.. Need advice.

[EMARTIN]

I am 42 and sitting at about 175 pounds and carrying approx 13 percent BF. The strongest thing I have used in a high dose run of Natadrol (loved it) but am looking for more. Currently doing a three day a week total body work out with body weight resistance (dips / push ups / crunches / etc) and cardio on the other two days of the week.

I am VERY leary about negative sides and willing to give up HUGE gains by playing it very safe. I like the idea of a "package deal" with full cycle / supporting supps / PCT in one.

The two that I am aware of AND interested in are LGs Trifecta and Primordial Performances Dermacrine Muscle Stack oral.

I am looking for quality lean gains not a cut though leaning out with gains is a HUGE plus.

Is there one that is recommended over the other with those goals. Feel free to recommend another as long as it fits into the goals of effective with proper diet / work and minimal risk of negative sides. Thanks!

 

[EMARTIN]

Is this the wrong forum to ask this in or am I not providing enough info?

I need to jump on the Primordial Performance option quickly IF that is the one that those "in the know" strongly recommend.... Supplies running low I am told.

 

[EasyEJL]

Well, the one thing I would say is that from all I recall seeing, you won't see significantly bigger results with either of those choices than the natadrol. Also, I have to say that although the sort of workout you are doing is good for a tight hard look, its not really optimal for gaining size. I've never seen anyone who has gotten "big" doing bodyweight exercises only.

I'd honestly lean more towards suggesting PP's Turinabol LV (possibly stacked with dermacrine), as you will get significantly more results that way, with minimal additional risks. But again, i'd think you at the very very very least need to get a weighted vest + wrist/ankle weights to increase resistance, and really it would make more sense to get a gym membership or get free weights to use at home.

 

[n87]

I agree. Why waste the product if you don't lift weights.

 

[EMARTIN]

Well, the one thing I would say is that from all I recall seeing, you won't see significantly bigger results with either of those choices than the natadrol. Also, I have to say that although the sort of workout you are doing is good for a tight hard look, its not really optimal for gaining size. I've never seen anyone who has gotten "big" doing bodyweight exercises only.

I'd honestly lean more towards suggesting PP's Turinabol LV (possibly stacked with dermacrine), as you will get significantly more results that way, with minimal additional risks. But again, i'd think you at the very very very least need to get a weighted vest + wrist/ankle weights to increase resistance, and really it would make more sense to get a gym membership or get free weights to use at home.

I just read my initial post and see the confusion. I lift heavy (metal objects)Monday, Wednesday, Friday and do body weight resistance and cardio on Tuesday / Wednesday....

No, I am not dumb enough to think that I am going to gain size by taking a supp and doing pushups....

 

[EMARTIN]

I agree. Why waste the product if you don't lift weights.

See above... Proper punctuation might have helped me say what I was trying to.

 

[Rosie Chee]

I am 42 and sitting at about 175 pounds and carrying approx 13 percent BF. The strongest thing I have used in a high dose run of Natadrol (loved it) but am looking for more. Currently doing a three day a week total body work out with body weight resistance (dips / push ups / crunches / etc) and cardio on the other two days of the week.

I am VERY leary about negative sides and willing to give up HUGE gains by playing it very safe. I like the idea of a "package deal" with full cycle / supporting supps / PCT in one.

The two that I am aware of AND interested in are LGs Trifecta and Primordial Performances Dermacrine Muscle Stack oral.

I am looking for quality lean gains not a cut though leaning out with gains is a HUGE plus.

Is there one that is recommended over the other with those goals. Feel free to recommend another as long as it fits into the goals of effective with proper diet / work and minimal risk of negative sides. Thanks!

At your weight and body composition, I wouldn't recommend using hormonals. However, if you ARE determined to, then you will do what you will do, so we can offer objective advice.

As you are aware, nutrition and training targeted at your goals is the FIRST post of call. Then to make sure that you are using the basic staples. Then you want your support staples. As well as planning out your PCT and having everything ready for it BEFORE you start your cycle. Finally, your hormonal product of choice.

Be aware that even of you get the Trifecta Stack or either the Dermacrine Muscle Stack (oral) or Dermacrine Muscle Stack (topical), you still want to get a few additional support supplements (i.e. garlic, milk thistle, hawthorne berry, taurine, etc.) for on-cycle.

If you want to recomp, then be aware that this is HEAVILY dependent on your NUTRITION, although using some hormonals can make this easier.

Since I have used neither stacks you mentioned I cannot give an opinion based on personal experience. However, others who have used both may comment, and I recommend reading more about both products and looking through feedback/review threads and logs on each.

I need to jump on the Primordial Performance option quickly IF that is the one that those "in the know" strongly recommend.... Supplies running low I am told.

Yes, there's not a lot of Dermacrine left - in either the topical or liqua-vade version.

I'd honestly lean more towards suggesting PP's Turinabol LV (possibly stacked with dermacrine), as you will get significantly more results that way, with minimal additional risks.

Turinabol is definitely a good hormonal for a first cycle. It gives results with minimal (if any) sides. Stacking it with Dermacrine, as Eric suggested, would be a great recomp stack.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[HereToStudy]

I agree with Easy and Rosie. Check out the Turinabol-LV. I just got done with a 6 week run, and it was incredibly smooth. I ran it as Turinabol-LV/Androhard, but Dermacrine is actually a great option for Turinabol-LV. You can run it alone, but the Dermacrine will help with the small sides of T-LV, which for me was just really mild lethargy, particularly weeks 5 and 6.

This will give you a bigger difference from your previous Natadrol usage, but won't be heavy on sides.

P.S. As proof that I really did like the cycle, On wednesday I will be receiving my order of 4 Dermacrines and 2 Turinabol-LVs. Its good stuff to have

 

[rulk22]

My vote is for Dermacrine lv. Great intro ph for beginer. Ive read many, many positive logs on Derm alone. Grab some while its available though, I bought 5 recently in the sale.

 

[EMARTIN]

At your weight and body composition, I wouldn't recommend using hormonals. However, if you ARE determined to, then you will do what you will do, so we can offer objective advice.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

Rosie,

I have read your advice to others on many various topics and trust your knowledge a great deal. I am interested in what YOU would do if you were me with my wieght / age / composition? I am NOT determined to jump into a PH for the sake of doing so. I am interested in growing and have a very dificult time doing so with any quality weight. My BF% number is my own measurement via common callipers and is as accurate as I can muster. I have current pics in the LG forum under the http://anabolicminds.com/forum/lg-sciences/154155-sexxxy-already-brought.html thread... See first page for before after or last for simply the current state of me.

I am not of the mind to be huge and do not have the genetics to get there anyway. I do want to carry more size and strength...

HeretoStudy has been a wealth of knowlege in my reading as well.

I am less familiar with some of the others that have chimed in but GREATLY appreciate the time taken to provide me with some knowlege and your oppinion!!!!

 

[Rosie Chee]

Rosie,

I have read your advice to others on many various topics and trust your knowledge a great deal. I am interested in what YOU would do if you were me with my wieght / age / composition? I am NOT determined to jump into a PH for the sake of doing so. I am interested in growing and have a very dificult time doing so with any quality weight. My BF% number is my own measurement via common callipers and is as accurate as I can muster. I have current pics in the LG forum under the http://anabolicminds.com/forum/lg-sciences/154155-sexxxy-already-brought.html thread... See first page for before after or last for simply the current state of me.

I am not of the mind to be huge and do not have the genetics to get there anyway. I do want to carry more size and strength...

HeretoStudy has been a wealth of knowlege in my reading as well.

I am less familiar with some of the others that have chimed in but GREATLY appreciate the time taken to provide me with some knowlege and your oppinion!!!!

Since I am not a male, nor your age, weight or body composition, I cannot say what I would do if I were you. However, if you were one of my clients, let me tell you what I would do.

First, we'd go through complete nutritional and training questionnaires to determine your training experience, supplement usage, and assess your current nutrition.

Before anything else, I'd take a look at your nutrition and target that for your goals - which is recomping.

Next I'd take apart your training and design you a programme that was specific for your needs (i.e. weaknesses and strengths) and goals, and time your nutrition in with that.

Lastly, I would look at your supplement history and make recommendations based on that and your goals. I'd definitely start you out on the basic staples and give you a week or so of that, since your nutrition is highly likely to be different to what you have been doing, and that alone is going to make a difference to your progress and results.

Once I've established what your nutrition and training are doing for you, then I might add in some other supplements. If you've run cycles before, I'd know your history, etc. If you've never run a cycle before, I'd recommend a NATURAL Testosterone boosting stack, but if you wanted more than what it could offer and have a solid training base and your nutrition and training are on target, and you want to know more re hormonals, then I would lay it out for you, all the risks and benefits and be thorough in ensuring that you looked at ALL of your possible options.

In the end, if you go the hormonal route, I can advise and aid you, help you prepare your cycle and PCT, but ultimately what you use, etc. is YOUR decision.

Gaining size and strength can be relatively easy if you know how to manipulate your nutritional and training variables.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[EMARTIN]

Since I am not a male, nor your age, weight or body composition, I cannot say what I would do if I were you. However, if you were one of my clients, let me tell you what I would do.

First, we'd go through complete nutritional and training questionnaires to determine your training experience, supplement usage, and assess your current nutrition.

Before anything else, I'd take a look at your nutrition and target that for your goals - which is recomping.

Next I'd take apart your training and design you a programme that was specific for your needs (i.e. weaknesses and strengths) and goals, and time your nutrition in with that.

Lastly, I would look at your supplement history and make recommendations based on that and your goals. I'd definitely start you out on the basic staples and give you a week or so of that, since your nutrition is highly likely to be different to what you have been doing, and that alone is going to make a difference to your progress and results.

Once I've established what your nutrition and training are doing for you, then I might add in some other supplements. If you've run cycles before, I'd know your history, etc. If you've never run a cycle before, I'd recommend a NATURAL Testosterone boosting stack, but if you wanted more than what it could offer and have a solid training base and your nutrition and training are on target, and you want to know more re hormonals, then I would lay it out for you, all the risks and benefits and be thorough in ensuring that you looked at ALL of your possible options.

In the end, if you go the hormonal route, I can advise and aid you, help you prepare your cycle and PCT, but ultimately what you use, etc. is YOUR decision.

Gaining size and strength can be relatively easy if you know how to manipulate your nutritional and training variables.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

Fair enough, Rosie... Thank you for the wall laid out post and approach!

How does one find a local Rosie Chee Scott. The world is full of "experts" and those that have the magic answer. How does a guy in West Virginia find someone that truely understands the nutritian / work out / supplementation synergies specific to an individual. I am quite positive I do not fully understand them and that is probably a large part of the hinderance and frustration. I am FAR from a rich man but do have physique goals that I would like to achieve the safest possible way while getting the most "bang" for my dollar and time in the gym (garage). I do not desire to take the stage in a comp. I simpy want to look my best and add some realistic size and shape to the equation. I look better now that I ever have in my 42 years on this earth. I woudl like my body to reflect the work I am doing and right now I do not feel it does. Perhaps very overblown expectations for the time I have been taking this serious!

Again, I am NOT tied to any approach. I realize it will take work and realize it will take time. I just want to make sure I am working smart and minimizing the time due to having a proper approach.

Any info you are willing to share is valued!

 

[HATEFULone]

I'd say dermacrine if you are leaning towards pp, a very versatile and mild product, easy to recover from. Also its on sale, turinabol lv looks great but is gonna give your liver a hit so get a liver support supp if you go with that.

 

[srsrob8]

You sound a lot like me before my first cycle (I'm younger though). If I had to do it again, and I will, I would use a stronger compound for a shorter period of time. What sides are you worried about?

Lift heavy naturally, have proper PCT before starting, good diet, 3 weeks of superdrol (or similar strength anabolic), then go back to lifting heavy naturally. You will see much better gains. Stop immediately and go to PCT if anything bad happens, if you want lower risk, do fewer cycles per year (or per lifetime).

YMMV, but I feel running something mild gives you most of the risk and none of the reward. Running something mild for a longer period of time or doing more cycles more often may even give higher risk overall.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Fair enough, Rosie... Thank you for the wall laid out post and approach!

No worries You're welcome, Eric. I stand by my recommendations, especially since you have only been training for 18 months.

How does one find a local Rosie Chee Scott. The world is full of "experts" and those that have the magic answer. How does a guy in West Virginia find someone that truely understands the nutritian / work out / supplementation synergies specific to an individual. I am quite positive I do not fully understand them and that is probably a large part of the hinderance and frustration. I am FAR from a rich man but do have physique goals that I would like to achieve the safest possible way while getting the most "bang" for my dollar and time in the gym (garage). I do not desire to take the stage in a comp. I simpy want to look my best and add some realistic size and shape to the equation. I look better now that I ever have in my 42 years on this earth. I woudl like my body to reflect the work I am doing and right now I do not feel it does. Perhaps very overblown expectations for the time I have been taking this serious!

It definitely pays if you're going to get a trainer that they DO know their sh*t re nutrition AND training AND supplementation, so that they can give you a COMPLETE and rounded nutrition plan and training programme and supplementation recommendations (which, in your case, is still the basics for a while), especially since training is only ONE factor involved, and not even the most important one. The trainer should also EXPLAIN why they have given you what they have, so that you understand the purpose of what they have done - this is my opinion at least, because I believe that everyone should know what they are doing and why and never just following something because someone said so, and if something has no purpose in aiding them in achieving their goal/s, then it should not be included.

If you cannot afford a trainer, then looking around and doing some research on different nutritional and training methods for your goals will help. There are many articles out there that explain things well. A few good starting points are:
* Gaining Muscle: Nutrition, Supplementation, and Training
* Training: Mass Gain Programs
* Training: Strength
* Nutrition Articles

Adding size and strength is very doable without the use of hormonals, by adjusting your nutrition and training towards this goal.

Again, I am NOT tied to any approach. I realize it will take work and realize it will take time. I just want to make sure I am working smart and minimizing the time due to having a proper approach.

Any info you are willing to share is valued!

At the end of the day, it's all about what's finding the BEST methods and what works for YOU.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[HATEFULone]

What type of training do you do in your garage? Depending on your equipment, a basic westside for skinny bastards routine with dermacrine/turinabol and androhard would give you great recomp. Just a thought I had.

 

[EMARTIN]

What type of training do you do in your garage? Depending on your equipment, a basic westside for skinny bastards routine with dermacrine/turinabol and androhard would give you great recomp. Just a thought I had.

Of late, I have done a 5x5 for the prescribed 12 weeks and came a LONG way in strength for sure. Migrated from that to Kleens "Warrior Work Out" that is a Monday / Wednesday / Friday full body work out that hits the muscle groups differently each go around. The basics of it are a warm up set / working set to about 8 reps / working "strip set" with 2 wieght drops (no rest) to failure for all three wieghts. There is to be no more than 60 seconds between sets / lifts. Does a heck of a job with keeping the heart going STRONG while getting a good pump.

I have a leverage system (multi station) from Powertech, assorted DBs (only up to 50 pounds for now), ez curl bar, olympic bar and about 500 * pounds of plate weight.

 

[HATEFULone]

Of late, I have done a 5x5 for the prescribed 12 weeks and came a LONG way in strength for sure. Migrated from that to Kleens "Warrior Work Out" that is a Monday / Wednesday / Friday full body work out that hits the muscle groups differently each go around. The basics of it are a warm up set / working set to about 8 reps / working "strip set" with 2 wieght drops (no rest) to failure for all three wieghts. There is to be no more than 60 seconds between sets / lifts. Does a heck of a job with keeping the heart going STRONG while getting a good pump.

I have a leverage system (multi station) from Powertech, assorted DBs (only up to 50 pounds for now), ez curl bar, olympic bar and about 500 * pounds of plate weight.

I've done Martin Rooney's workout for warriors, very similar, I liked it. Fits great for a garage style workout. I've found that when on cycle the most important thing is to lift heavy and often, while maintaining your joints. The best part of being "on" is the recovery is lightening fast, if you are getting the proper calories. Good luck.

 

[RAHHH]

I would rec you Check out the Turinabol-LV.
maybe a stack like this:
wk1-6 Tbol
wk1-8 sustain alpha
wk6-9 HCGenerate

 

[schwellington]

if your going to use hormones- i say the real deal anabolic steroids- in fact many of the so called "ph" are not prohormones they are fully active steroids such as superdrol and epistane- both are fully active compounds and do not need any conversion


there is much more medical data on actual anabolic steroids- however if you are concerned with the legality i understand.

i would reccomend epistane- you will get lean dry muscle gains, while possibly cutting fat if your diet is correct

 

[gymrat827]

Have you thought about stacking two natural products?

FreeTEST, HGHup, and maybe some creatine... Run it for 8wks and you should make some decent gains.