Epi-Strong to get chiseled (Sponsored)

MidwestBeast

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What up everyone, just decided to get this log up and running before I start my run of Epi-Strong, courtesy of mrsupps. Major love to the NTBM and MrSupps crew for hooking me up with this chance - it is much appreciated.

I am out of state with my family right now as my mother just had surgery (which was successful!) and I was here for support and now to help her as she recovers. I will be back to my home in Kentucky at the start of the week and expect to find a nice little package of Epi-Strong waiting for me at work when I return.

Basically, I figured this would be ample time to start doing some leg work on getting everything set up as needed to get this thing running smooth. This will be my first hormonal run, so I'm excited for it. I have been doing research on this stuff for several years (in depth for the past year) because I like to understand everything; even if I weren't to use or try it. However, I'm still in no way as well versed as many of the community members here are, nor does all the research in the world make up for actual experience using compounds. So, I am gladly looking for any and all advice on getting this thing done right.

First of all, let's go over my stats and goals. In May I cut down to 208 and was pretty ripped (though not where I wanted to be, still). At the suggestion of a friend, I decided to bulk for a while as I had been dieting pretty hard for quite a while, albeit the first portion of it was done incorrectly (wish I would have known all those years ago what I do now about the nutritional side of things). So, I ended up with 8 solid weeks of bulking and got myself up to 241 (largest I'd ever been). Made some major gains in chest and shoulders as well as my thighs. This was about an 80/20 clean bulk, but still dirty enough that there was some fat gain (about 1.5" on the waist). I've been slowly reducing cals and re-introducing cardio (as I had cut it out during the bulk to ensure maximum growth). Yesterday I weighed in at 233.6lbs.

I am 6'1" and have a pretty decent build, but there is a lot of extra fat (that I hold pretty well) that I want gone! You can check out my bodyspace (same user-name) if you want to see measurements, etc.

I've decided on a 4-day lifting split, with the other 3 days dedicated to cardio. Carb-cycling will be utilized and has been thus far. Lifting days are: Arms, Legs, Chest/Delts, Back/Traps. Abs will be done on cardio days as needed.

I am a packrat if there ever was one. I'm not home now, so I can't give a complete list of my supplement arsenal, but I'm going to give a bit of a rundown on what I have in my stash for you to weigh in on how you think I should bring some things into play.

What I'm currently taking:

OEP / Alpha T2 / Ephedrine (currently 12.5mg HCL - picking up some 25mg sulfate as well)
Fish Oil
Multi-Vitamin (currently GNC Greens - probably switching back to Orange Triad once I finish this one-month bottle)
Anabolic Pump / P-Slin / SlinSane (as needed before carb-meals)
Power Shock (intra-workout / will be done relatively soon)
BC+EAA (as needed between meals, morning, night and pre-workout)
Jack3d (pre - just 1 scoop)
Trutein (for my during the day usage)
NutraPro (post-workout)
ON Casein (pre-bed)

What is in my stash of goodies that can be used whenever necessary:

ModernBCAA
more Jack3d
ReCreate
SCRx bulk powder
creatine monohydrate
Cell-Mass
Nitrix
Beta Alanine
Taurine
Pink Magic
Prime
TNA
ton of other fat burners and pre-workouts
H-Drol
Stano-Drol
Cycle-Assist
Inhibit-E
Suppress-C
Erase
Triazole
DAA
HardFX
Liver Assist
Milk Thistle

I'm sure there's a ton of other stuff I'm forgetting, but you get the jist.

So, if anyone would like to weigh in on what would be beneficial to add in with or after the Epi-Strong, please let me know - I'm all ears.

I have to bolt now, but I'll add in more information soon and work on setting up a schedule for the pre-cycle, cycle, and post-cycle.

Gotta love it!
 
MidwestBeast

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Epi-Strong Review (11-30-10):

Okay, so I ended up with 4 weeks of Epi-Strong (along side CEL's Stano-Drol for the duration at 450mg and then 600mg). As could be expected, it was pretty slow to start off at 30mg, and at 45mg I couldn't really visually notice much, but I did take notice on the day I did about 8 sets of incline bench press after a full delt workout and nearly PR'ed on a ~2,500 cal/day diet compared to the ~4,500 cal/day diet I was looking at when I set the PR this summer.

Then, at 60mg I really enjoyed it (note that CEL's H-Drol was now in play at 50mg, too). From a scientific standpoint for determining things, I didn't do the best job (though admittedly that was not my top priority here). This was my first hormonal run of any kind and I'd like to call it successful, though it wasn't quite as much as I had expected.

This is a product that I will definitely run again and likely at a higher dose (60mg right out the gate and maybe even 75mg). Since it was my first run, I was very cautious. I didn't notice any negative sides from this at all (aside from some initial acne, which extra scrubbing with the loofah seemed to take care of).

Strength is an area where this really shined. I didn't notice much for size (obviously), since I was in caloric deficit, but it does react interestingly. When I was just about maintenance, I was packing on pounds pretty quickly and eating very clean. It seems to really love the carbs and add on weight quickly when they are in play.

I look forward to running this again in the future at a higher dosage and possibly when attempting to bulk.
 
MidwestBeast

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Saved for Final Review and Final Stats.
 
BarbellBeast

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Subbed.

Holy sh1t bro you got tons o supps!
 
MidwestBeast

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Subbed.

Holy sh1t bro you got tons o supps!
Glad to have you in, bro. And yeah, I wasn't lying when I said I'm a packrat. I collected baseball cards when I was younger and this seems to be what I've traded off for. Can't seem to have enough, though I'm trying to do better about buying a bunch til I use what's there.
 
MidwestBeast

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So the big goal for me on this is to legitimately cut. I'm not fooling around with a recomp. That's great and what I'll likely do in the future, but right now, I'm solely concerned with getting to single digit bf% and looking near-contest ready.

With that in mind, I'm planning on still eating at a caloric deficit, though I may play around with how much of one depending on how things go.

As a first time cycle, would those of you who have done this already suggest doing the epi solo and calling that good? Or would bridging over into something else be reasonable/worth-while? Like I said, I have 2 bottles each of H-Drol and Stano-Drol in the stash that haven't been touched. I was really toying with the idea of Katanadrol with Epi - but I'm trying to use what I have before I start stock-piling anymore considering the lack of cupboard space I have.

I was thinking of front-loading the Cycle Support 1.5-2 weeks in advance before starting the Epi. Still setting up the PCT, as it will also depend on whether I go with just Epi or anything else along with it.
 
RickRock13

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Subbed for sure. REALLY interested in how this goes for ya man. Good luck!
 
Silver3CSRT8

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Epi-strong will be a great first cycle and no need to stack with anything. However, in my opinion I would have 2 bottles and run 5-6 weeks. Epi can take 3 weeks to really kick in good and by week 4 the fun really starts and you won't want it to end.
 
rochabp

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im subd
im gonna get some epi soon
 
MidwestBeast

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All right, well things are about to start getting serious in here. As the time nears, I will be very dedicated to putting a ton of info in this log.

Right now I'm just trying to piece everything together as I get ready to place on last order from NP to get all the remaining things I don't already have. This is the idea I have and am toying with:

Epi-Strong bridged into H-Drol/Stano-Drol (and possibly running Stano-Drol the whole way through). Any thoughts on this?

Dosing I'm looking at is:

Epi: 30/45/45/45/45
H-Drol: 50/75/75/75/75/75
Stano-Drol: 300/450/450/450/450/450*

*450 continued throughout if ran the whole time

That layout doesn't show the off weeks of H-Drol to start, so that would be 0/0/0 or so.

Just started my cycle assist today. Planning on running it for the remainder of the week and next week, starting my cycle on the following Monday (1.5 weeks pre-loading).

Planning on running 10g Fish Oil daily with this, throwing in some bulk cissus powder if needed, Orange Triad as my multi. I have extra milk thistle to add in if necessary.

PCT will be nolva that I'm working on getting a hold at the moment. Also picking up PCT assist to use if needed. Have Inhibit-E, Suppress-C and Liver Assist XT to use as needed too (all pointers would be much appreciated here).

I also have Erase and am looking for advice on whether to take it during cycle or post for most optimal results.

I'll keep updating. If anyone sees any huge flaws in this, please let me know. And like I said, as this is my first cycle, I'm looking for all the help on this that I can (I do a lot of research, but I love hearing from those who have done this before). I've got 11 years of lifting experience and about 5 years of natural supplementation. Diet is also very much on point (carb-cycling; going into keto if it's that necessary).

I'm currently hovering around 235 and looking to absolutely shred on this run. I'd love recomp, added strength, etc. but the bottom line is I want to melt every ounce of body fat off. I'm planning to taper off of OEP/T2/Ephedrine in the next week and then bring it back after this cycle is in the books (along with some clen and/or T3 possibly).

Thanks for helping me set this thing up, guys! :cool:
 
carpee

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NOW Taurine 1000mg caps are great to have on hand just in case of back pumps.
 
SouthernCharm

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im in this biatch
 
MidwestBeast

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NOW Taurine 1000mg caps are great to have on hand just in case of back pumps.
Ah, thanks for that, bro. I've got a huge tub of Primaforce taurine in the cupboard - completely forgot to mention I'll be using that as needed too. That's what happens when I try to make really quick posts without thinking everything completely through :)
 
MidwestBeast

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MidwestBeast

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im subd
im gonna get some epi soon
Glad to have you in here, man. I've been following your thread about epi + _____ and learning quite a bit.
 
MidwestBeast

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carpee

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Ah, thanks for that, bro. I've got a huge tub of Primaforce taurine in the cupboard - completely forgot to mention I'll be using that as needed too. That's what happens when I try to make really quick posts without thinking everything completely through :)
5 grams on workout days should take care of any pumps.
 
MidwestBeast

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MidwestBeast

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Epi-strong will be a great first cycle and no need to stack with anything. However, in my opinion I would have 2 bottles and run 5-6 weeks. Epi can take 3 weeks to really kick in good and by week 4 the fun really starts and you won't want it to end.
Thanks for that info, man. I really appreciate it. From what I've read, I'd totally agree that it's a solid choice on its own. I'm really curious to try out a few things, though, and since I've got the H-Drol/Stano-Drol in the stash already, I'm thinking I'm going to utilize them as well. And if Epi goes as well as everyone talks about, I'll very likely run a solo version of it for much longer.
 
MidwestBeast

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So here's what my current supplement lineup is looking like leading up to the cycle (just gonna show a week day as the times are easier to lay out - everything stays the same but the times on weekends):

6:30 OEP/T2/12.5mg Ephedrine HCl
7:00 Meal 1 / Multi / 2g Fish Oil / 4 caps Cycle Assist
9:30 Meal 2
10:30 OEP/T2/12.5mg Ephedrine HCl
12:00 Meal 3
2:30 OEP/T2/12.5mg Ephedrine HCl
3:00 Meal 4 (Pre-Workout)
4:00 1 scoop Jack3d / 1 serving BC+EAA
4:30 Work Out (1.5-2 scoops Power Shock intra currently - will change back to bulk BCAAs soon 24:6:6 and possibly 2.5g BA)
6:00 Meal 5 (Post-Workout Whey Shake / maybe carbs)
7:00 Meal 6 (Post-Workout Whole food meal) / multi / 2g Fish Oil / 4 caps Cycle Assist / Glutamine if needed
9:30 Meal 7 (Casein Shake)
10:30 ZMA

Nutrient partitioners are used preceding heavy carb meals. I switch between high, moderate and low carb days. For the most part, though, this is representative of what I'm doing and will continue to do leading into cycle.
 
MidwestBeast

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I've just been pre-loading my Cycle Assist thus far and the cycle will start on not this Monday, but the next. If there is no input from others discouraging this or making changes, this is what I'm planning on doing:

Epi-Strong: 30/ 45/ 45/ 45/ 45
H-Drol: 50/ 75/ 75/ 75/ 75/ 75
Stano-Drol: 300/450/450/450/450/450/450/450/450

Epi: Weeks 1-5
H-Drol: Weeks 4-9
Stano-Drol: Weeks 1-9

The Stano-Drol is recommended at 450 for cutting cycles, but as a 235lb guy, I may bump it up near the end and just cut the cycle shorter. Again, input is welcomed.

*edit: I had all the doses spaced out for each week with spaces, but apparently it doesn't like that lol. And I don't feel like going back in to put 0's in.
 
rochabp

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lol
im gonna run an identical cycle to yours
cant wait to see your progress
 
MidwestBeast

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lol
im gonna run an identical cycle to yours
cant wait to see your progress
It'll be interesting for sure man. I've never had any problem putting on mass naturally, so we'll see what these products add. I was up to something like 345x6 unassisted/raw on bench press just w/ high cals and natty products, so this should be fun. We'll see what all the commotion is about haha.

I'll post up my diet and such once I nail it down. I'll probably start right around 3,000 cals and see where it goes after a week, making adjustments as necessary.

What are you doing for your post?
 
rochabp

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It'll be interesting for sure man. I've never had any problem putting on mass naturally, so we'll see what these products add. I was up to something like 345x6 unassisted/raw on bench press just w/ high cals and natty products, so this should be fun. We'll see what all the commotion is about haha.

I'll post up my diet and such once I nail it down. I'll probably start right around 3,000 cals and see where it goes after a week, making adjustments as necessary.

What are you doing for your post?
yeah i wanna see what happens but im gonna use my cycle to recomp, ive worked hard to get pretty lean now i just want to add some quality muscle while looking good.

my post will be something like this:
clomid 100/100/50/50
nolva 40/30/20/10
 
MidwestBeast

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Just some more information. I haven't been putting together real clear/complete posts as my mind just seems to be jumping all over the place. I thought I would list out what I plan on taking pre, during and post cycle just to take advice that others offer up on it as well.

Pre-Cycle:

- Cycle Assist

*running my normal staples here as well.

On-Cycle:

- Epi-Strong / H-Drol / Stano-Drol (obviously)
- Cycle Assist
- 10g Fish Oil
- Orange Triad
- BCAAs / EAAs / Glutamine
- AAKG pre-workout (other pre-workout if feeling lethargic)
- Nutrient Partitioners
- Taurine (as needed)

Post-Cycle:

- PCT Assist
- 10g Creatine Monohydrate
- Nolva (20/20/10/10) ?

Other products I have that could be useful on hand:

- Liver Assist XT
- Inhibit-E
- ERASE
- Triazole
- Lean Xtreme
- Pink Magic
- Prime
- TNA
- GHenerate
- Suppress-C
- Bulk SCRx Powder
- Bulk DAA Powder
- Hard FX
- Cell Mass
- Nitrix
- extra Milk Thistle
- Zinc
- PowerFULL
- CLA
- EGCg
- Ephedrine (HCl and Sulfate)
- Oxy-Elite Pro
- Alpha-T2
- Tons of protein / pre-workouts


Basically, I don't want to do something that is overkill. I don't want to throw in a bunch of crap that is unnecessary, nor do I want to waste anything. But, that's what I have in my stash and I'd love to hear most importantly what others think is the best PCT for this.

Also, I really want to run ERASE. I have 2 bottles - when is it most beneficial to run it? And, would it be bad to run it on cycle?

*edit: forgot to mention the taurine again lol
 
rochabp

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from what ive heard this cycle will shut you down hard as reported from other guys that have done epi/hdrol, they said they were shut down hard and that they would recommend a hefty dose of both nolva and clomid.

i wouldnt waste that erase, your already on epi you dont need erase, and suppression of estro in PCT is not desirable, the goal of PCt is to up test not down estro, big diff.

also heard creatine on cycle is beneficial and may help with progress
 
MidwestBeast

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from what ive heard this cycle will shut you down hard as reported from other guys that have done epi/hdrol, they said they were shut down hard and that they would recommend a hefty dose of both nolva and clomid.

i wouldnt waste that erase, your already on epi you dont need erase, and suppression of estro in PCT is not desirable, the goal of PCt is to up test not down estro, big diff.

also heard creatine on cycle is beneficial and may help with progress
Really, man? Most of what I'd read/researched leaned toward this not being a cycle that would be that harsh in terms of shutting things down.

I figured ERASE wouldn't be something I'd want on cycle, but was thinking leading into it it might be ideal. I guess more than anything I was just really looking for a way to squeeze it in lol.

I was going to wait until after cycle to bring the creatine in to hold onto gains and strength a little better and didn't really want to run it for ~15 weeks straight, though maybe I should just run it for that long.
 
rochabp

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oh well idk maybe it depends on how you run it but i saw your set up and your going epi 1-5 weeks and hdrol 4-9 weeks right? so idk how that might change but i have heard that some guys were shut down pretty hard, or so ive been told.
 
MidwestBeast

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oh well idk maybe it depends on how you run it but i saw your set up and your going epi 1-5 weeks and hdrol 4-9 weeks right? so idk how that might change but i have heard that some guys were shut down pretty hard, or so ive been told.
Yeah, that's my gameplan. Although, I'd be willing to up some dosages and cut the total number of weeks down by 1-2 if that would be a better choice, too. This is where it would be very beneficial to have some others weigh in.

But I could be completely wrong, and this may be much more harsh than I've been led to believe.
 
rochabp

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i guess we'll find out
...good luck! ;)
 
MidwestBeast

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MidwestBeast

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Diet

Well, I've spent the last 2-3 hours hammering out the diet details as it will be very important. I'm working close to this now, but had not been following the macros or cals to a T.

I'll be doing a 4-day lifting split, 3 days of cardio. Low carb days will be on cardio days. High carb days will be done on leg day and back/traps day. Moderate carb days will be for arm day and chest/delts day.



Low Carb Day

Meal 1: Egg White Omelette
Fat Free American / Pepperjack cheese
Turkey Brat

Meal 2: 2 chunk light tuna

Meal 3: 1/2lb burger
3oz chicken
Butter toffee almonds

Meal 4: 2 turkey brats
3oz chicken

Meal 5: 2 scoops NutraPro

Meal 6: 6 Eggs
5 strips turkey bacon

Meal 7: 2 scoops ON casein

2,773 cals / 116g fat / 42g carbs / 361.5g protein




Mod-Carb Day

Meal 1: 3 pieces Nature’s Pride bread
2 tbsp natty peanut butter
turkey brat

Meal 2: 2 chunk light tuna

Meal 3: 1/2lb burger
Fat free American cheese

Meal 4: 2 packets maple-brown sugar oatmeal
6 oz chicken
banana

Meal 5: 3 scoops NutraPro / 1 scoop Carb Slam

Meal 6: Egg white omelette
Fat Free American / Pepperjack cheese
5 strips turkey bacon
2 packets maple-brown sugar oatmeal

Meal 7: 2 scoops ON casein

3,128 cals / 88.5g fat / 228g carbs / 350.5g protein





High Carb Day

Meal 1: 4 packets maple-brown sugar oatmeal
Egg white omelette
Fat-free American / Pepperjack cheese

Meal 2: 2 chunk light tuna

Meal 3: 2 packets maple-brown sugar oatmeal
3oz chicken

Meal 4: Banana
4 pieces Nature’s Pride bread
10 slices turkey
2 slices fat-free American cheese

Meal 5: 3 scoops NutraPro / 1 scoop WMS / ½ cup oats

Meal 6: 4oz whole grain pasta
2 chunk light tuna

Meal 7: 2 scoops ON casein

3,461 cals / 47.5g fat / 397g carbs / 356g protein
 
funkd0c

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OK, well there are a couple of things...

Length is pretty long for an oral run, most do 6-7 and anything over 8 most suggest running hCG the last few weeks to get the testes going again. At 9 weeks, you might wanna think about a hefty dose of SERM, or just shorten it. Because I don't think that anything less than 450mg of Stano-drol isn't going to do much for someone your size. I ran PP's androhard(same compound) and 450 didn't really feel like much. I def could have handled more ;) IMO, 600mg is way better. Maybe even bump it up to 750 if your feeling good near the end. So shortening it might serve you well.

BTW, i'm def sub a dub dubbeddddd
 
MidwestBeast

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OK, well there are a couple of things...

Length is pretty long for an oral run, most do 6-7 and anything over 8 most suggest running hCG the last few weeks to get the testes going again. At 9 weeks, you might wanna think about a hefty dose of SERM, or just shorten it. Because I don't think that anything less than 450mg of Stano-drol isn't going to do much for someone your size. I ran PP's androhard(same compound) and 450 didn't really feel like much. I def could have handled more ;) IMO, 600mg is way better. Maybe even bump it up to 750 if your feeling good near the end. So shortening it might serve you well.

BTW, i'm def sub a dub dubbeddddd
Thanks for the input here, man - I appreciate it more than you could know. When it comes to training and diet, I've got a great handle on things. Even on natural supps, I'm pretty solid. But this is a new venture for me, and like I said, even with all the research I do, I feel like I'm coming up short on knowledge.

I thought with as mild as some of these compounds were that it wouldn't be too bad to run for the 9 weeks (particularly the stano-drol being unmethylated). I'm trying to piece together a new, stronger/shorter cycle and this is what I'm coming up with just off first bat:

Stano-Drol: 450/600/600/600/600/600/600
Epi-Strong: 030/045/045/060/000/000/000
___H-Drol: 000/000/050/075/075/075/100

Based on my size, this may be a bit more effective. But is it too much? Only 2 weeks of methyl-overlap so H-Drol will be in full swing by the time I'm off Epi and I'll still be feeling the strength from Epi pushing through.

Thoughts?
 
funkd0c

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Thanks for the input here, man - I appreciate it more than you could know. When it comes to training and diet, I've got a great handle on things. Even on natural supps, I'm pretty solid. But this is a new venture for me, and like I said, even with all the research I do, I feel like I'm coming up short on knowledge.

I thought with as mild as some of these compounds were that it wouldn't be too bad to run for the 9 weeks (particularly the stano-drol being unmethylated). I'm trying to piece together a new, stronger/shorter cycle and this is what I'm coming up with just off first bat:

Stano-Drol: 450/600/600/600/600/600/600
Epi-Strong: 030/045/045/060/000/000/000
___H-Drol: 000/000/050/075/075/075/100

Based on my size, this may be a bit more effective. But is it too much? Only 2 weeks of methyl-overlap so H-Drol will be in full swing by the time I'm off Epi and I'll still be feeling the strength from Epi pushing through.

Thoughts?
Yeah, This is more like what I would do if I were running this cycle. :AR15firing: and think about our size difference.. Also, you may not need to bump to 60 on the Epi unless you feel confident about it.

Hdrol is lighter on the liver than epi so I don't think you'll have to worry about the overlap as long as you have good liver support.

Now go out and KILL THAT SHIIIT!!!
 
Silver3CSRT8

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My only worry about that cycle is the length and not the compounds. Based on my experience, yours might be different, after 5+ weeks on orals you are wanting it to be over with. You will probably have back pumps that get frustrating and the lethargy will also be present and by week 6 you will want to feel like yourself again. The compound choices are pretty mild so from that standpoint the sides should not be too bad.
 
MidwestBeast

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Yeah, This is more like what I would do if I were running this cycle. :AR15firing: and think about our size difference.. Also, you may not need to bump to 60 on the Epi unless you feel confident about it.

Hdrol is lighter on the liver than epi so I don't think you'll have to worry about the overlap as long as you have good liver support.

Now go out and KILL THAT SHIIIT!!!
Thanks so much, bro! :bigok: I really appreciate it.

I'll be running Cycle Assist 4 caps 2x/day and have additional milk thistle as well as Liver Assist XT on hand if necessary for liver support.

If you don't mind my bugging you again, what do you think would be the best PCT for this?
 
MidwestBeast

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My only worry about that cycle is the length and not the compounds. Based on my experience, yours might be different, after 5+ weeks on orals you are wanting it to be over with. You will probably have back pumps that get frustrating and the lethargy will also be present and by week 6 you will want to feel like yourself again. The compound choices are pretty mild so from that standpoint the sides should not be too bad.
Thanks, man - I'll definitely keep all of that monitored. I do have plenty of taurine to bring into play as needed to counter back pumps if they occur. And if things do get to the point of being that bad, I'll cut it as needed and jump right into PCT - not worth screwing anything up if it's not going as it should.
 
funkd0c

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Thanks so much, bro! :bigok: I really appreciate it.

I'll be running Cycle Assist 4 caps 2x/day and have additional milk thistle as well as Liver Assist XT on hand if necessary for liver support.

If you don't mind my bugging you again, what do you think would be the best PCT for this?
My PCT for this would be:

Toremifene: 90/60/30/20 First 3 days at 120mg
Test booster starting week 3
Cortisol Controller Starting week 2
Milk Thistle
Creatine&Beta Alanine

That's me though... I have no experience with Clomid so I can't comment on that one. Maybe someone else will, because most on this board prefer clomid. I hear that 75/50/50/25 is popular but i've also heard many opinions on this.
 
Tomahawk88

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My only worry about that cycle is the length and not the compounds. Based on my experience, yours might be different, after 5+ weeks on orals you are wanting it to be over with. You will probably have back pumps that get frustrating and the lethargy will also be present and by week 6 you will want to feel like yourself again. The compound choices are pretty mild so from that standpoint the sides should not be too bad.
Ya on oral only cycles u just get run down. I start feeling like I have been playing in traffic and losing.
 
morry

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I'll toss some of my 2 cents in the mix.

Before I start, just finished a 5 week Epi cycle myself 20/40/40/40/50 (I tapered the 20 up every couple days till i hit 40, so really I was at 40 but 1.8 weeks).

I'm just going to chime in about PCT.

I have cycled all sorts of orals. I have about a dozen cycles under my belt. Unfortunetly, I wasn't nearly as versed in the subjest as I am now and I had extra fat deposit on my chest and belly button area. All of which is melting off with hard work. Real, real hard work. Stubborn fat cuking sucks a fat one.

On to PCT.
Clomid caused me to rebound and led into my first signs of a "lump" in my chest of which have now been eliminated thanks to CABER, LETRO and lots and lots of hard work.
Letro can do this too, but not when I paired it with Tamoxifen.

So my PCT looks like this
I run a very low does of Letro throughout the cycle (.25ml @ 2.5mg/ml) to keep my estro under control as I have had many problems with estro rebound, so I keep this on hand. And I don't care what anybody says, half this stuff isn't legal to buy and you DON"T KNOW WHAT'S IN IT completely, so if something aromitizes and you don't have letro on hand.....right, not doing that again.
At the end of my cycle, I bump the letro to .5ml and start tamoxifen at 40 and continue with that till week 2 of pct, decrease letro to .25 and tamox to 30, then week 3 do away with letro, take tamox down to 20, then week four run it at 10 until you feel fully recovered (this can take longer than a week, don't hold it to an exact week, listen to your body and your workouts and you will feel when you have recovered). Then discontinue Tamox and continue your routine.

Remember to toss a week to de-load in there. You will need it after that cycle as Tomahawk said (and dude, I read your stuff too, much respect) you will be ready to kick back and give your joints a rest.

I started SARMS S4 at the end of my cycle this time along with everything else and I'm being bad because of it. By that I mean, I haven't taken anytime off because SARMS makes you feel like you can lift forever. Unlike anything I have ever taken. I'm not stronger, defiently not weaker, but after a 5 week cycle I start SARMs go to do a back workout, get a bad back pump, toss on 305 lbs on squat and still am able to rip of 17 reps. It's crazy man. You might want to look into it. I'm interested to see how much mass I'll keep.

I'm at 205 right now. I was 183 6 months ago, but I have great muscle memory. I'm one of those lifters that gets lazy for 4 months and gets fat, then when I hit it hard again, it's just faster and faster.

I like your idea with the creatine too. I do the same thing, use it for PCT to KEEP my gains. Seems to work pretty decent.

The other stuff you are stacking it with I haven't taken, but my list looks something like MAG-10 (the original), M1T w 4ad, Superdrol, FinaFlex, Epistane, and plain ole M1t.

So for PCT it is
Letro (AI)
Tamox (SERM)
Sarms S4 (acts like test and helps recover libido)
Caber (cortisol and prolactin, for other reasons besides the cycle)
Clen (to prevent muscle breakdown)

Hope this helps!!
 
MidwestBeast

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I'll toss some of my 2 cents in the mix.

Before I start, just finished a 5 week Epi cycle myself 20/40/40/40/50 (I tapered the 20 up every couple days till i hit 40, so really I was at 40 but 1.8 weeks).

I'm just going to chime in about PCT.

I have cycled all sorts of orals. I have about a dozen cycles under my belt. Unfortunetly, I wasn't nearly as versed in the subjest as I am now and I had extra fat deposit on my chest and belly button area. All of which is melting off with hard work. Real, real hard work. Stubborn fat cuking sucks a fat one.

On to PCT.
Clomid caused me to rebound and led into my first signs of a "lump" in my chest of which have now been eliminated thanks to CABER, LETRO and lots and lots of hard work.
Letro can do this too, but not when I paired it with Tamoxifen.

So my PCT looks like this
I run a very low does of Letro throughout the cycle (.25ml @ 2.5mg/ml) to keep my estro under control as I have had many problems with estro rebound, so I keep this on hand. And I don't care what anybody says, half this stuff isn't legal to buy and you DON"T KNOW WHAT'S IN IT completely, so if something aromitizes and you don't have letro on hand.....right, not doing that again.
At the end of my cycle, I bump the letro to .5ml and start tamoxifen at 40 and continue with that till week 2 of pct, decrease letro to .25 and tamox to 30, then week 3 do away with letro, take tamox down to 20, then week four run it at 10 until you feel fully recovered (this can take longer than a week, don't hold it to an exact week, listen to your body and your workouts and you will feel when you have recovered). Then discontinue Tamox and continue your routine.

Remember to toss a week to de-load in there. You will need it after that cycle as Tomahawk said (and dude, I read your stuff too, much respect) you will be ready to kick back and give your joints a rest.

I started SARMS S4 at the end of my cycle this time along with everything else and I'm being bad because of it. By that I mean, I haven't taken anytime off because SARMS makes you feel like you can lift forever. Unlike anything I have ever taken. I'm not stronger, defiently not weaker, but after a 5 week cycle I start SARMs go to do a back workout, get a bad back pump, toss on 305 lbs on squat and still am able to rip of 17 reps. It's crazy man. You might want to look into it. I'm interested to see how much mass I'll keep.

I'm at 205 right now. I was 183 6 months ago, but I have great muscle memory. I'm one of those lifters that gets lazy for 4 months and gets fat, then when I hit it hard again, it's just faster and faster.

I like your idea with the creatine too. I do the same thing, use it for PCT to KEEP my gains. Seems to work pretty decent.

The other stuff you are stacking it with I haven't taken, but my list looks something like MAG-10 (the original), M1T w 4ad, Superdrol, FinaFlex, Epistane, and plain ole M1t.

So for PCT it is
Letro (AI)
Tamox (SERM)
Sarms S4 (acts like test and helps recover libido)
Caber (cortisol and prolactin, for other reasons besides the cycle)
Clen (to prevent muscle breakdown)

Hope this helps!!
Hey morry, thanks a lot for dropping in here, man. I really appreciate the info. I'm gonna see what all I can get my hands on for post and re-assess. I'll be taking what you said into consideration :cheers:
 
MidwestBeast

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Well guys, I'm gonna start posting in here very regularly now. I'll start Epi on Monday, so I'll start adding in all of my workouts and everything else. Tonight was leg day:

Leg Press: 360x15 / 540x12 / 720x10 / 810x8 / 810x10
Leg Extensions: 185x12 / 215x12 / 245x10 / 245x10
Seated Leg Curls: 125x12 / 140x12 / 155x12 / 170x12
Front Squats: 90x10 / 160x10 / 210x10 / 220x10
Seated Calf Raises: 240x15 / 240x15 / 240x12 / 240x12
Seated Calf Extensions (solo): 170x12 / 175x12 / 180x12 / 185x12
Leg Extensions: 450x20 (burnout immediately after last exercise)

*Leg Press was done with feet very close together. I usually do a wide stance on them. This is the first time (in years) I've gone close.

*I have never done front squats before - this was my firs time. They were done on the Smith machine and weights do not factor in what the bar may weigh - just the plates. Butt touching the bench, but not resting on it on all sets.

*Last leg extensions had feet placed high and wide to hit hammys just for a burnout.

I usually feel pretty crappy after leg day - like wanting to puke and sweating bullets. Today was not like that which is very odd for me - but good. Even after burning out at the end, legs felt pretty good.

Pre-workout was 1 Xtend scoop of BC+EAA (equals roughly 2 of their scoops, but has a longer handle) about 20 minutes before the gym and 1.75 scoops of Grape bubblegum Jack3d as soon as I got there. Pre-workout meal was 2.5 scoops of Nutra-Pro, 1 cup of oatmeal ground up in with it and separately a large banana (roughly 50g protein / 80g carbs) just barely an hour before starting to lift.

I've found that if my pre-workout meal is any smaller than that or spaced out any further than 1 hour, I'll feel sick in the middle of my workout. I'm glad I figured this out - makes the workout much more enjoyable.

Intra-workout I rocked TruNutrition's bulk BCAA's (4:1:1) in a 24:6:6 mixture + 2.5g Beta Alanine in a 1/2 gallon jug of water with some NP bulk dew flavoring (ran out tonight and will pick up something from the grocery store to mix in for the remainder). I just finished using VPX's Power Shock for my intra-workout.

Immediately post-workout was 2.5 scoops of NutraPro + 45g WMS. An hour later I made up some whole grain pasta, chicken and a bit of alfredo + parmesan cheese. Ended up about 50g protein / 80-90g carbs / less than 10g fat from the alfredo mixed in. I actually took some photos and will toss those up later when I have a chance.

Tomorrow will likely be a cardio day (15 min HIIT on the bike and 30 min on the stepmill). Could be chest/delts, but I'll probably save that for Saturday - we'll see how I feel tomorrow.
 

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