Test/Deca Help

swish1985

swish1985

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I'm 24 years old i just dropped 10 pounds ( for some leagues im done with now) and currently weigh 202-205, Im 6' tall. The most i ever got up to was 215 lbs.. I have a 32-33 waist and have been working out since high school, but have been seriously dedicated for over a year now. Tired of prohormones and am growing impatient so this is what my conclusion is:

i have (4) 10ml vials of test/deca 200 (2) each.

Week 1-10 : 500mg(2cc) every week of testosterone
Week 1-8 : 400mg(2cc) every week of deca

thats how i plan on running it.

My question is what are the supplements to be taken along side?? Ive heard take nolva(on cycle) but when in the 10 weeks do i start taking it? What are some other good supps to run during and post cycle?? (FYI: i value my hair very much) and whats the best pct supps to be taken? any and all feedback is much appreciated thank you

The only Nolva and Clomid I can grab discriptions are:

LiquiNolva 30ml @ 25mg/ml..how would i run that CC/ML wise?

&

LiquiClom 30ml @ 50mg/ml..how would i run this CC?ML wise?

I really want to jump start getting everything lined up that i need so i can start ASAP...ive browsed tons of forums that others have posted and never heard more contradicting facts on the same subject in my life. So i figure just start my own i wont start until it makes sense.

ANY and ALL feedback is much appreciated thank you!!
 
gamer2be08

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Cycle looks good.
Saw palmetto and nizoral shampoo for hair.
Try to get a-dex as your on cycle AI, you dont want to take nolva while injecting deca..
Clomid PCT: 100/75/50/50/25/25
 

Tyler3295

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Cycle looks good.
Saw palmetto and nizoral shampoo for hair.
Try to get a-dex as your on cycle AI, you dont want to take nolva while injecting deca..
Clomid PCT: 100/75/50/50/25/25
Yep, get some arimidex for on cycle. I might even have some caber/prami on hand in case of prolactin issues..

I also personally wouldn't run the clomid that high. 100mg ED for a week? Seems high. I have ran a clomid only PCT of 50/50/50/50 (100mg first 2-3 days) with success.
 
swish1985

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yeah i can get a hold of liquidex 30ml @ 1mg/ml...how would you recommend running the liquidex? through out the whole cycle or start after week 4? as far as the clomid do you suggest i start it 2 weeks after my last deca shot or is it 2 weeks after the last test shot?
 
lennoxchi

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do you guys think liquidex could be a code name for arimidex? b.c. thats the only thing i could link it to on the site where i get my clomi/nolva. if that is it when and how do you recommend running the liquidex?
"Tired of prohormones and am growing impatient" with that additude i would not run anything, but hey, who am i to say you don't know what you're doing?

if you've never ran test before i will highly suggest you run that solo. why? cause if you have a problem on cycle you won't know which compound is giving you the problem. 500mg EW is plenty fine for a first cycle.
 
swish1985

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yeah anyone taking prohormones or gear is impatient obviously. otherwise we'd all do it naturally. Appreciate the input though, ive heard mixed feelings on running test solo also, just like everything else i do research on. thats why i started this post to see whats really recommended for someone my age,size, experience and being able to ask the questions first hand is real important.
 

Tyler3295

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yeah i can get a hold of liquidex 30ml @ 1mg/ml...how would you recommend running the liquidex? through out the whole cycle or start after week 4? as far as the clomid do you suggest i start it 2 weeks after my last deca shot or is it 2 weeks after the last test shot?
I would run the adex throughout the cycle. I run it at .25mg EOD or E3D as I am not gyno prone. If you are, I might run it a little higher or more often.

As far as the clomid goes for PCT, you will need to make sure it has been at least 14 days (for test cyp) after your last test pin and 21 days after your last deca pin. (In this case, you would wait for the longer one to clear)

"Tired of prohormones and am growing impatient" with that additude i would not run anything, but hey, who am i to say you don't know what you're doing?

if you've never ran test before i will highly suggest you run that solo. why? cause if you have a problem on cycle you won't know which compound is giving you the problem. 500mg EW is plenty fine for a first cycle.
Agreed. Test only is the perfect first AAS cycle. Run 250mg test every 3.5 days. Make sure you know EVERYTHING you need to though.
 
swish1985

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if i do decide to run just test, how long of a cycle?
 
CleetusVanDam

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test E, 500mg per week for 12 weeks; that is as solid and simple asa first cycle can get. The long estered life of test E keeps the gains slow and solid, also very keepable depending on how well you do PCT. With E i liked to do PCT 5 weeks after last inject.
 

Tyler3295

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test E, 500mg per week for 12 weeks; that is as solid and simple asa first cycle can get. The long estered life of test E keeps the gains slow and solid, also very keepable depending on how well you do PCT. With E i liked to do PCT 5 weeks after last inject.
Start PCT 5 weeks after last pin with test enanth?

I usually start PCT 18 days after last test enanth pin...
 
CrazyChemist

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OP - I agree with lennoxchi that you need to exercise patience when planning a cycle if you don't wany gyno, other medical problems, or death. This is a dangerous decision and you need to do it as safely as possible.

That being said, here is my first run (I keep electronic logs of everythign):

Supplement base:
Multivitamin-1 tab-ED
Flaxseed oil-1 500mg tab-ED
Milk Thistle-1 tab-2xED
Fish Oil-1000mg-2xED
AI's Cycle support - 1 scoop - 2xED

Wk. 1 - 4
Test E-250mg-E3D
Dbol-30mg-2xED

Wk. 5 - 16
Test E-250mg-E3D
hCG-500 iu -E3D
Formex - 2 tabs - 2xED

Wk. 17
Creatine
Formex- 2 tabs- 2xED

Wk. 18
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Formex-100mg-2xED

Wk.19
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-100mg-ED

Wk.20
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-50mg-ED

Wk.21
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-25mg-ED

Wk.22
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-25mg-ED

Wk. 23
Post cycle support- 2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps- 5x/wk
Adex-1.5mg-ED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED

Wk. 25
Post cycle support- 2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps- 5x/wk
Adex-0.5mg-ED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED





Now, I am not recommending you stack dbol with the test e and I am not recommending you run 16 weeks - i'm just telling you what i did. Also formex is no longer available but its a milder AI and sustain alpha is now a liquid, not a lotion. Looking back I couldve probly run a lower dose of adex after the SERM but it didnt bother me too much and actually dried me out quite nicely. Good luck bro, whatever you decided to do.
 
swish1985

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OP - I agree with lennoxchi that you need to exercise patience when planning a cycle if you don't wany gyno, other medical problems, or death. This is a dangerous decision and you need to do it as safely as possible.

That being said, here is my first run (I keep electronic logs of everythign):

Supplement base:
Multivitamin-1 tab-ED
Flaxseed oil-1 500mg tab-ED
Milk Thistle-1 tab-2xED
Fish Oil-1000mg-2xED
AI's Cycle support - 1 scoop - 2xED

Wk. 1 - 4
Test E-250mg-E3D
Dbol-30mg-2xED

Wk. 5 - 16
Test E-250mg-E3D
hCG-500 iu -E3D
Formex - 2 tabs - 2xED

Wk. 17
Creatine
Formex- 2 tabs- 2xED

Wk. 18
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Formex-100mg-2xED

Wk.19
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-100mg-ED

Wk.20
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-50mg-ED

Wk.21
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-25mg-ED

Wk.22
Creatine-2000mg-2xED
AI's Post Cycle Support-2 tabx- 2xED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps-5x/wk
Clomid-25mg-ED

Wk. 23
Post cycle support- 2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps- 5x/wk
Adex-1.5mg-ED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED

Wk. 25
Post cycle support- 2 tabs-2xED
Sustain Alpha-6 pumps- 5x/wk
Adex-0.5mg-ED
Lean Xtreme-2 tabs-2xED





Now, I am not recommending you stack dbol with the test e and I am not recommending you run 16 weeks - i'm just telling you what i did. Also formex is no longer available but its a milder AI and sustain alpha is now a liquid, not a lotion. Looking back I couldve probly run a lower dose of adex after the SERM but it didnt bother me too much and actually dried me out quite nicely. Good luck bro, whatever you decided to do.
nice log Chem, yeah i got a lot to chew on. Appreciate that help bro.
 
swish1985

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As of right now i think i will run test for 10-12 weeks @ 500 mg per week, running liquidex throughout the cycle at .25 EOD, never had gyno but always had somewhat puffy nips(never been overweight haha) . As far as PCT ill run clomid after 18 days?? at 50/50/50/50 ? is that 50mg EACH WEEK ??

DHT is an anti-estrogen and blocking it while your body has supraphysiological levels of testosterone might lead to gynecomastia.....so i will run HairScripts Complete: DHT Blocker and Hair Nutrition alongside my liquidex??? to not lose my hair, how does that sound on cyle??


guys if you could just help me answer these last couple of questions ill be on my way.Thanks again.
 

Tyler3295

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As of right now i think i will run test for 10-12 weeks @ 500 mg per week, running liquidex throughout the cycle at .25 EOD, never had gyno but always had somewhat puffy nips(never been overweight haha) . As far as PCT ill run clomid after 18 days?? at 50/50/50/50 ? is that 50mg EACH WEEK ??

DHT is an anti-estrogen and blocking it while your body has supraphysiological levels of testosterone might lead to gynecomastia.....so i will run HairScripts Complete: DHT Blocker and Hair Nutrition alongside my liquidex??? to not lose my hair, how does that sound on cyle??


guys if you could just help me answer these last couple of questions ill be on my way.Thanks again.
Run it for 12 weeks! :D If you think you might be gyno prone run the adex at .5mg EOD.

50/50/50/50 = 50mg ED for 4 weeks.

Also, try using some Nizoral Shampoo 2-3x/wk to help with hair.
 
swish1985

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Run it for 12 weeks! :D If you think you might be gyno prone run the adex at .5mg EOD.

50/50/50/50 = 50mg ED for 4 weeks.

Also, try using some Nizoral Shampoo 2-3x/wk to help with hair.
Thanks Tyler whats that (3) 10 ml vials to cover 12 weeks? alright ill do that run .5mg EOD of the liquidex. Now do you think i should run HairScripts Complete: DHT Blocker and Hair Nutrition alongside the liquidex to be safe? or is the Nizoral shampoo enough? safer the better?
then ill run.

50/50/50/50 = 50mg ED for 4 weeks of clomid
 
CrazyChemist

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Thanks Tyler whats that (3) 10 ml vials to cover 12 weeks? alright ill do that run .5mg EOD of the liquidex. Now do you think i should run HairScripts Complete: DHT Blocker and Hair Nutrition alongside the liquidex to be safe? or is the Nizoral shampoo enough? safer the better?
then ill run.

50/50/50/50 = 50mg ED for 4 weeks of clomid
You should really step down from the SERM and you should probably run at least 1 week of a low dose AI after the SERM. At 2cc per week times 12 weeks is 24cc=2.4 vials (10mL).
 
lennoxchi

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google Finasteride if you're looking for a DHT product.
 
swish1985

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well im gonna take an AI on cycle and a serm off, but after the pct run another AI for a week is what your saying??
 
CrazyChemist

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well im gonna take an AI on cycle and a serm off, but after the pct run another AI for a week is what your saying??
Thats what im saying. You probably also want to get some hCG and run that from wks. 4-12 while ON so that your testicles don't atrophy. Prolonged atrophy can cause irreversible tissue death (i.e. permanent low test).
 

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Good luck with this cycle dude keep us posted . I'm currently running one similar Im doing test e every 4 days 250mg a go for 10 weeks pct 14 days after last jab with clomid I'm going for 100 for the first couple of days then. Reducing to 50ed for 4 weeks
 
CrazyChemist

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Good luck with this cycle dude keep us posted . I'm currently running one similar Im doing test e every 4 days 250mg a go for 10 weeks pct 14 days after last jab with clomid I'm going for 100 for the first couple of days then. Reducing to 50ed for 4 weeks
100/50/50/25 is ideal IMO
 
swish1985

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thanks tompa, hcg isnt that for weight loss? im just afraid running too many things together that i cant find on record. I dont want one thing to cancel out another or if i get a bad reaction wont be able to pin point the source. What did you take with hcG, Chem?? and Finasteride thanks for the heads up, i just didnt like the sides for it. Hairscripts is all natural and have heard great feedback on it.
 
CrazyChemist

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thanks tompa, hcg isnt that for weight loss? im just afraid running too many things together that i cant find on record. I dont want one thing to cancel out another or if i get a bad reaction wont be able to pin point the source. What did you take with hcG, Chem?? and Finasteride thanks for the heads up, i just didnt like the sides for it. Hairscripts is all natural and have heard great feedback on it.
Yeah this is the sort of thing you definitely want to be well versed on before proceeding and all the information is on the web. Nevertheless, I'll briefly discuss hCG. hCG is a hormone that tells your testicles to make testosterone. As I'm hoping you already know from your research, taking testosterone shuts down your body's HPTA. Now the HPTA can be restarted with SERMS and other such pct drugs. However, with the HPTA shutdown, your testicles shutdown as well and atrophy. For short cycles this atrophy is reversible but for longer cycles it can cause permanent damage.

Read this thread: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/141577-unreals-guide-injectables.html
 
swish1985

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nice info chem very helpful. Just a bit taken back you gotta inject this also. maybe prohormones werent too bad LOL. i once again got a lot to chew on but thanks bro this is why i started this thread
 

Tyler3295

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You should really step down from the SERM and you should probably run at least 1 week of a low dose AI after the SERM. At 2cc per week times 12 weeks is 24cc=2.4 vials (10mL).
Not that I am disputing what you're saying but .25-.5mg EOD shouldn't lower estrogen too much.
 
lennoxchi

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Not that I am disputing what you're saying but .25-.5mg EOD shouldn't lower estrogen too much.
never under estimate adex, it's not letro i'll give you that but it is strong
 
swish1985

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what do you think is better for on cycle for my liquidex or liquifem=letro??
 
CrazyChemist

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Not that I am disputing what you're saying but .25-.5mg EOD shouldn't lower estrogen too much.
I haven't competed for 8 years now (since a junior competition at age 17) but sometimes before a non-competitive event i'll run adex for 5 or 10 days at 0.25mg and I'm noticably drier. So it is pretty effective but i have seen people run higher doses. In reality, running the AI for a week after the SERM is sort of a precaution. My take on all this though is to be as safe as possible.

OP - When I started looking into AAS I figured I just wanted to run one single compound and that running one compound would yield the lowest risk of side effects. I was really skeptical that running all these "support" supplements and "post cycle therapy" supplements. The truth is, to run an AAS cycle correctly you need AT LEAST 6 different products or substances, probably more. Its an entire package and you cant really leave anything out.
 

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Has anyone try a blend? My boy got a blend (test-deca) I was very tempted to take a jab at it, but I went with the 1-test cyp instead.
 
unc21

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I use blends all the time. If made properly, its a great way to limit the amount of CC's you have to inject. No difference really, other than convenience.
 
lennoxchi

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what do you think is better for on cycle for my liquidex or liquifem=letro??
dex is plenty, letro is a bit strong and i f you go with that you'll need to watch the dose because it could lower estro quite a bit, so could dex, don't get me wrong but it would take more of it to do what letro would do at a lower dose. either way you'd be fine, choose one and get the proper dose.
 
CrazyChemist

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dex is plenty, letro is a bit strong and i f you go with that you'll need to watch the dose because it could lower estro quite a bit, so could dex, don't get me wrong but it would take more of it to do what letro would do at a lower dose. either way you'd be fine, choose one and get the proper dose.
Never used letro but never found adex lacking.
 
swish1985

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whats an oral kickstart, exactly and is one better than another. for a test cycle
 
swish1985

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dex is plenty, letro is a bit strong and i f you go with that you'll need to watch the dose because it could lower estro quite a bit, so could dex, don't get me wrong but it would take more of it to do what letro would do at a lower dose. either way you'd be fine, choose one and get the proper dose.
alright sounds good, thanks
 
CrazyChemist

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whats an oral kickstart, exactly and is one better than another. for a test cycle
Long ester test takes a few weeks to kick in. So if you are "on cycle" for 10 weeks then really the first 2-4 weeks you are waiting for the stuff to kick in and then getting 6 weeks at max dosage, then the last 2 weeks (where you are no longer pinning) the stuff is clearing your system and the dosage is decreasing. You can think of it like an automatic taper-on and taper-off without actually doing any tapering at all.

Anyway, you can stack the long ester with a quick acting compound, like dbol or sdrol, so that you are feeling effects the entire 10 weeks - thats a kickstart - or even do the same with the last two weeks. For a first cycle it is usually not recommended but a 4 week course of a mild oral would not be a HUGE no-no for a first timer.
 

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what do you think is better for on cycle for my liquidex or liquifem=letro??
Use arimidex ON cycle. I always keep letro on hand, but rarely use it. I save it in case gyno tries to arise.

... In reality, running the AI for a week after the SERM is sort of a precaution. My take on all this though is to be as safe as possible. ...
Yep, well the AI I use during PCT is aromasin. No estro rebound. :D Which I'm sure you knew that.
 
swish1985

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Long ester test takes a few weeks to kick in. So if you are "on cycle" for 10 weeks then really the first 2-4 weeks you are waiting for the stuff to kick in and then getting 6 weeks at max dosage, then the last 2 weeks (where you are no longer pinning) the stuff is clearing your system and the dosage is decreasing. You can think of it like an automatic taper-on and taper-off without actually doing any tapering at all.

Anyway, you can stack the long ester with a quick acting compound, like dbol or sdrol, so that you are feeling effects the entire 10 weeks - thats a kickstart - or even do the same with the last two weeks. For a first cycle it is usually not recommended but a 4 week course of a mild oral would not be a HUGE no-no for a first timer.
yeah i like this idea sounds solid. im going to do a 12 week cycle of test, so you think i should run a 4 week cycle of dbol. on my first four weeks of test??
 
CrazyChemist

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yeah i like this idea sounds solid. im going to do a 12 week cycle of test, so you think i should run a 4 week cycle of dbol. on my first four weeks of test??
Thatd be fine.
 
swish1985

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ok im getting closer to rounding everything up im running clomid as a pct whats the suggested way to run it? thanks
 
CrazyChemist

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ok im getting closer to rounding everything up im running clomid as a pct whats the suggested way to run it? thanks
standard dosing is fine - 100 for 3 days, 50/50/25/12.5. I like an AI overlapping the last week of low dose serm
 
swish1985

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im still starting my pct 18 days after my last poke and i got some extra letro i guess i could run along with it for the last few days.
 
CrazyChemist

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im still starting my pct 18 days after my last poke and i got some extra letro i guess i could run along with it for the last few days.
Letro is a bit strong but sufficient if dosing is correct. Run is at the end of the SERM, maybe a few days after to address bounceback.
 
swish1985

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Letro is a bit strong but sufficient if dosing is correct. Run is at the end of the SERM, maybe a few days after to address bounceback.
Just a few days is all i have left haha. How do you suggest running the leto Chem? thanks
 
swish1985

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alright i have everything ready to go now its going to be sunday tomorrow for me. Should i wait till early monday to do my first poke? so i can get into the Monday/Friday rhythm ?/
 
unc21

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alright i have everything ready to go now its going to be sunday tomorrow for me. Should i wait till early monday to do my first poke? so i can get into the Monday/Friday rhythm ?/
Its all about what works for you and your schedule. Do your injections whenever suits you best and you are able to remain consistent.
 
swish1985

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Its all about what works for you and your schedule. Do your injections whenever suits you best and you are able to remain consistent.
haha yeah i started today i was too anxious. So Sunday and Thurs. are my days.
 
CrazyChemist

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Just a few days is all i have left haha. How do you suggest running the leto Chem? thanks
i run a low dose AI for about a week after I stop the SERM just because its never really hurt and i have the $$ for it so why not err on the side of caution. Probly youd be fine but if have 3-5 days dosage, whats the point of holding that small amount? Id say go for it.
 
swish1985

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i run a low dose AI for about a week after I stop the SERM just because its never really hurt and i have the $$ for it so why not err on the side of caution. Probly youd be fine but if have 3-5 days dosage, whats the point of holding that small amount? Id say go for it.
Absolutely Chem, I hear ya. So after my clomid ill run the letro @ .25 for 3-5 days.
 

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