Begginer needs help!

[steviestv8]

im looking to drop some weight on one cycle and bulk on the next is this smart? or should i do oppostie? and what would be the best for both of these?

 

[CrazyChemist]

Woah woah - let's slow down there champ. One cycle at a time. There is ALOT you need to know and if you think gear will just give you the body you want tomorrow, I'm sorry to tell you, it won't. I recommend doing at least one year research before starting.

That being said - what are your goals? What is your current bf%? You are 6'2" 220lbs. Do you want to stay at that weight and recomp? Or be bigger at a lower bf %?

What is your current diet and training regimen?

Remember, time on cycle = time off cycle and time on includes PCT. So, for example, if you are going to run a 10 weeks with 4 week pct then you need to take 14 weeks off anything hormonal after pct is over.

 

[steviestv8]

i have done alot of research just trying to get a feel for what other think i am around 12-14% a little high im looking to get bigger with a lower bf%. im just not sure of what to do first aa cutting cycle or a bulking cycle. i am thinking of starting off maybe bulking with dome dbol and deca for the quick start with dbol and the sloer increasing effect of deca.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

how old are u bro? and why not just cut without aas then bulk with aas? and i dont really think dbol and deca alone would be a good cycle. Im sure everyone else would agree adding some test as a base and then using dbol to kickstart then the deca once the test has kicked in

 

[steviestv8]

alright good the test was going to be apart of my whol dbol and deca cycle but i was told that was to much by a few people i know so i din't want to sound dumb on here. and im 21

 

[sanchezgreg18]

do u have any experience with ds/ph/aas? why dont u post what u already planned so we can see what u have done research wise. include ur pct aswell

 

[steviestv8]

here is a basically what i know to do from a couple different sources to do.


Dianabol Cycle
In order to kick start a dianabol cycle, usually what you do is incorporate a fast acting oral like dianabol (or anadrol) and combine it with long acting injectables (such as Deca or Eq with some Testosterone). The reasoning here is that the oral (Dbol in this case) will give almost immediate results, while the injectable takes time to produce results. The end result is that you start seeing results within the first week of your cycle and continue up until the end with the injectables. This entails taking anywhere from 25-50mgs of dbol (although as little as 20mgs or as much as 100mgs have been reported) for 3-6 weeks at the start of a cycle (average time for a "Kick Start" is 4 weeks, though), and then ceasing their use as the injectables start to produce results.

In order to successfully bridge between cycles (and this means using a low dose of AAS, in this case dbol), you need to recover your natural hormonal levels to pre-cycle levels or to within acceptable parameters, and then you start your next cycle. The idea here is that you won´t lose any gains, but rather a low dose of an AAS will help you maintain them. Typically, you´d use around 10mgs/day of dbol and combine it with an aggressive Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) course of Nolvadex (and/or Clomid) and HCG. This would give you full androgen replacement from the Dbol and a shot at recovering your natural hormonal levels via the other stuff you are taking. Remember, the 100mg/day dose of dbol in the study we looked at earlier did not suppress Test, LH, or FSH to a degree that would make recovery impossible and certainly not with 1/10th that dose in conjunction with an aggressive PCT.




is this correct?

 

[sanchezgreg18]

type out an outline of ur actual cycle not a copy and paste from another website because taht just makes it look like u havent done any research. not trying to be negative but it doesnt seem like u actually have anything planned.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

and what u posted outlines a dbol bridge. do u know what ur cycle would look like ? or even what u have for pct?

 

[steviestv8]

lol i do but right now i am writing a 3,500 page report and trying to talk about this. ill type one up within in an hour

 

[steviestv8]

400mg week deca Week 1-8
400mg week Test Enanthate Week 1-8
30 mg dbol Week 1-4
as for pct not sure of dosages but Hcg and Clomid

 

[sanchezgreg18]

is this ur first cycle of anything including ph? if so i really think this cycle is overkill but htats just my opinion. test e with dbol kickstart or just test by itself would give u good gains especially for a first cycle i wouldnt stack three because u wouldnt know what caused what sides if u have any . and if u do run this id suggest getting adex or letro for on cycle

 

[steviestv8]

ok see this is what would like to know ok so you say test a dbol would be sufficent? and yes first cycle hense begginer need help title lol

 

[sanchezgreg18]

test E by itself would be more than enough for a first cycle. just make sure u have everything including pct BEFORE starting ur cycle. nd id get adex or letro just in case u have any gyno flare ups on cycle

 

[steviestv8]

whats first sign of gyno flare?

 

[sanchezgreg18]

do u kno what gyno is? not to be rude but i dont think u really should be doing an injectable cycle without having everything researched fully.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

also ne reason why ur jumping straight into AAS instead of PH?

 

[steviestv8]

No real big reasons i have used prohormones before just want to try something new. and yes i do first sign is inflatted nips. how about enough you asking mr why and giving me an idea on what you think a good cycle for bulking is/ another one to cut and the pct's if you dont mind

 

[UnrealMachine]

is this ur first cycle of anything including ph?

yes first cycle hense begginer need help title lol

No real big reasons i have used prohormones before just want to try something new.

I laughed. And i'm not touching this one. One thing is for sure you need to figure out if you're bulking or cutting cuz I can't understand what you're trying to get out of this.

 

[nosnmiveins]

I laughed. And i'm not touching this one. One thing is for sure you need to figure out if you're bulking or cutting cuz I can't understand what you're trying to get out of this.

x2, id love to help, but this thread is all over the place. and its pretty clear the OP has done minimal research and planning

 

[Tansui]

wow deca, dbol, test as a 1st cycle... I guess if you want to go from amateur to pro in 1 cycle lol. That sounds like some harsh stuff for your 1st rodeo IMHO. If your set on a longer cycle for recomp and bulk maybe 12 weeks of EQ/bold, with SD the 1st 3 weeks and Epi/Havoc the last 3 weeks. lots of clean cals and even more cardio. Let me restate however IMHO this all sounds a little premature.

Edit: also spend 6 months to a year getting maxed and primed for such a cycle 'cause I don't think you want to try to do this 2 times in 1 year.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

thats what i was trying to hint at 1. no research, 2. wayy too excessive

 

[steviestv8]

ok **** it i want to cut lets go from there. i have done research but i guess everyone has there own idea of whats good how about instead of saying do research teach me because if i knew everything i wouldnt be asking you guys on here about it.

 

[steviestv8]

My idea if this was ok fwith all of you lol! was starting off cutting with
trenbelone ethnate 200-600mgs a week
test. because of the raised prolactin levels. just not sure what kind or amount

pct.
HCG 2,000-5,000 i.u. every 5 days for 2-3 week
clomid last 10-15 50-100mg

or would
a proviron25-100mg with nolvadex or Hcg work better?

 

[nosnmiveins]

My idea if this was ok fwith all of you lol! was starting off cutting with
trenbelone ethnate 200-600mgs a week
test. because of the raised prolactin levels. just not sure what kind or amount

pct.
HCG 2,000-5,000 i.u. every 5 days for 2-3 week
clomid last 10-15 50-100mg

or would
a proviron25-100mg with nolvadex or Hcg work better?

NO. ur going in the OPPOSITE direction. stick with TEST ONLY....thats it!!!

Test-e or c 500mg/week for 10-12 weeks, DEFINITELY NO TREN

 

[CrazyChemist]

400mg week deca Week 1-8
400mg week Test Enanthate Week 1-8
30 mg dbol Week 1-4
as for pct not sure of dosages but Hcg and Clomid

Didn't read all the other posts but 1) don't run deca, you are going to end up with boobs, 2) you never use hCG during pct, it is suppressive to the bodies natural LH, 3) drop the dbol for your first cycle IMO.

Also, I would lean up without AAS before jumping into it. I'm not saying you can't take anything to assist in the weight loss but AAS probably is not the right choice. No one is trying to make you feel bad but this is dangerous stuff you are dealing with. Do you have a SERM for on-cycle in case you need it?

 

[CrazyChemist]

HCG 2,000-5,000 i.u. every 5 days for 2-3 week

:sigh1: You are going to end up with non-functional testes. hCG should be run at 250-500iu E3D on- cycle to keep testes functioning.

 

[steviestv8]

well can someone just give me a dosage and what i can take everything i say someone says it is bad to do. i have read up on it but everycycle i read up on you guys say is bad. i would like some first hand experiences from somone on a good cycle

 

[sanchezgreg18]

Didn't read all the other posts but 1) don't run deca, you are going to end up with boobs, 2) you never use hCG during pct, it is suppressive to the bodies natural LH, 3) drop the dbol for your first cycle IMO.

Also, I would lean up without AAS before jumping into it. I'm not saying you can't take anything to assist in the weight loss but AAS probably is not the right choice. No one is trying to make you feel bad but this is dangerous stuff you are dealing with. Do you have a SERM for on-cycle in case you need it?

NO. ur going in the OPPOSITE direction. stick with TEST ONLY....thats it!!!

Test-e or c 500mg/week for 10-12 weeks, DEFINITELY NO TREN

wow deca, dbol, test as a 1st cycle... I guess if you want to go from amateur to pro in 1 cycle lol. That sounds like some harsh stuff for your 1st rodeo IMHO. If your set on a longer cycle for recomp and bulk maybe 12 weeks of EQ/bold, with SD the 1st 3 weeks and Epi/Havoc the last 3 weeks. lots of clean cals and even more cardio. Let me restate however IMHO this all sounds a little premature.

Edit: also spend 6 months to a year getting maxed and primed for such a cycle 'cause I don't think you want to try to do this 2 times in 1 year.

x2, id love to help, but this thread is all over the place. and its pretty clear the OP has done minimal research and planning

I laughed. And i'm not touching this one. One thing is for sure you need to figure out if you're bulking or cutting cuz I can't understand what you're trying to get out of this.

:sigh1: You are going to end up with non-functional testes. hCG should be run at 250-500iu E3D on- cycle to keep testes functioning.

maybe u should read what all these guys are saying then do more research and plan something out based on what suggestions u have been given because they are all right. u cant go on google and search cycles and think u can just run any one u see. every cycle u have proposed are both going to be unproductive and those compounds should only be used by advanced users. i dont think u realize how strong real tren is. its not like taking the so called "Tren" phs that were on the market

 

[CrazyChemist]

^^^ best summary of this thread.

OP, run ECA stack to lean up and do research on AAS. Cut till August / Sept. Then, after research, run bulking cycle in Fall 2010. Also, need to see your diet - please post daily diet and brief description of training.

EDIT: And please tell us your age and years training.

 

[steviestv8]

my diet is a 40-35-25 try to get 3,500 calories a day try to get 1400 from protein or 350 grams a day Carb come from greens i cheat with icecream everyother day to keep me sane, fats i take fish oils and mostly come from nuts, olive oil, omega. my work out is a superset style high and low rep i have my best mass gains from this while staying lean. usually is something barbell for 8 superseted with cables or db for 16 for four sets. reps vary though and i change exercises up slightly every two weeks. i do 3 on 1 off with cardio on day off.

 

[CrazyChemist]

Please post a typical days food intake with approximate times of consumption. A small alteration in diet will probably help you get to your goals (I think we've decided to cut up a little first and then bulk). Your training seems a little scattered to me as well. What is your split?

 

[steviestv8]

chest shoulders tri abs, back biceps traps, basically legs quadd calf hams ext. upon waking up usually 9:00 3 egg whites 1 whole egg, 8 oz milk 8 oz. cran, 12:00 protein shake, 3:00 turkey sandwhich, vegtables, 8 oz juice, 7:00 protein shake, 8:00 lift, 9-10 post shake, 11-12 small snack or drink. This varies alot though with food and time still in college so its hard keeping a set schedule with it and work.

 

[CrazyChemist]

chest shoulders tri abs, back biceps traps, basically legs quadd calf hams ext. upon waking up usually 9:00 3 egg whites 1 whole egg, 8 oz milk 8 oz. cran, 12:00 protein shake, 3:00 turkey sandwhich, vegtables, 8 oz juice, 7:00 protein shake, 8:00 lift, 9-10 post shake, 11-12 small snack or drink. This varies alot though with food and time still in college so its hard keeping a set schedule with it and work.

Cut out the juice and milk and replace with water. Cut back to 1 shake a day and get more whole food protein. Make sure your sandwhich is made with whole wheat bread. How much cardio do you do on off days? Consider doing a carb depletion diet night before off days followed by HIIT cardio the following morning then carb load to prep for next 3 days w.o.. You are still in college, how often do you drink alcohol?

Are you planning on going with the ECA stack to cut for the next few mos. while planning your bulk cycle?

 

[Tansui]

...

 

[steviestv8]

my workout is a HIIT program so on off day i just do a 30 min jog at around 150 HR i my bread is always wheat and i maybe go out one night a week and drink 3 or 4 beers. i would dlike to try the ECA and about the carb depletion the night before what is your take on how many carbs i should take the day before the off?

 

[CrazyChemist]

my workout is a HIIT program so on off day i just do a 30 min jog at around 150 HR i my bread is always wheat and i maybe go out one night a week and drink 3 or 4 beers. i would dlike to try the ECA and about the carb depletion the night before what is your take on how many carbs i should take the day before the off?

For our goal of cutting right now, an HIIT routine is okay. When we start bulking we'll want to change that. On cycle no alcohol is allowed. As a practice run, let's start that now. I personally like a keto diet for cutting. I'm a little more than a week into keto now and plan on have a carb free t-giving. I understand that that diet is tough for most tho. Please research diet options and find one that suits your goals and lifestyle. Also, we want to quantify your goals. Let's get a bf % done, either at a nutritionist or buy your own caliper. Set a target bf% and weight. You'll probably hit one goal or the other but when you hit either we can reassess. Sound good?

 

[steviestv8]

ya i haven't really set any goals in awhile and i have to get new calipers lost old. the thoughest thing i think is not being able to count calories in college i dont know exactly what they are putting the food their. i

 

[sanchezgreg18]

if its hard to maintain a steady diet i suggest spending the money u would have spent on a very costly cycle and investing in food u can cook quick. get a food scale and a quality mrp if its really that hard to plan a good diet out. im in college too bro and im at school all day but i still spend 1 hr a day making a meal plan for the next day, cooking it all and putting in a bag to take with me so that i get all my meals in no matter what.

 

[CrazyChemist]

what year are you in college? You are on-campus with a meal plan? When do you plan on moving off-campus and shopping for your own food? Definitely wouldn't juice till you get your diet right.

 

[Tansui]

I got an awesome Meal plan from BMCJAMES im following it loosely now but I have more cheat days than I should. Its still an easy solid base to build around all you need is tupperware, and a fork... make that zip lock bags, and a plastic fork.

Well I dont know how good you are at sticking to the same ole food everyday for weeks or even months on end but this is what I prefer for bulking....

5 Lbs of Russet Potatos (aprox 2000 calories from carbs, 580ish grams carbs, 80ish grams protein, 30-50 grams fiber, zero grams fat!)

2 Lbs of Lean Ground Turkey (93/7, aprox 1600 calories from protein, aprox 180 grams protein, aprox 20 grams fat)
(I change this to 2.5Lbs turkey per day if I am doing a 4 or 5 day split)

For sauce I use HEB Brand, No High Fructose Corn Syrup Ketchup, and when it starts to get plain I throw in some good ole Mexican hot sauce (not salsa, more like an even spicier Tabasco) This way I get no more than 100 calories from all combined sauces in a day. Also remember to keep out the high fructose corn syrup to help keep the insulin levels stable when on a high carb diet.

I chop the potatos up really small kinda like chips, I spray non fat cooking spray on 2 large cookie pans and bake at 430 degress for 28 minutes.

Boil the Turkey (boiling will cook it faster and the fat will float to get it to 99% lean after you strain it, in theory...) Make sure you have a Lid on the Pot as this way it is pretty much impossible to overcook (more like steaming actually) and you cant forget about it and evaporate all the water out and have burnt food lol

I know I am a bit hardcore but I like it.... For me this will bulk me up about 1 - 2 lbs per week depending on what sorta split I am on. I throw in a homemade protein shake on my lifting days just to be sure I am really in the anabolic range.

I will typically eat this diet for 2-3 months straight with just a little cheat meal once a week (cheat meal, not cheat day*). Ohh yeah one more great thing about it, it costs less than $70 per week after taxes, heck watch for a good deal and you can pickup the turkey really cheap at sams club!

-James

In PMs James went on to tell me the only difference between his bulking and cutting diet is the volume of potatoes! sound perfect to me...

 

[steviestv8]

im off campus but i have a small campus so i walk there to get food.

 

[CrazyChemist]

im off campus but i have a small campus so i walk there to get food.

stop walking there to get food. Go food shopping.

 

[steviestv8]

ok what would be a good pct for test -e or c

 

[CrazyChemist]

ok what would be a good pct for test -e or c

IMO, a test cycle requires an LH clone on-cycle to prevent testicular atrophy, a SERM as PCT after the ester clears, a natural test booster, and a cortisol control at a minimum.

 

[steviestv8]

Yes i know but like i put up stuff i had in mind and i kind of get shot down everytime what products do you think work or should be used?

 

[CrazyChemist]

Yes i know but like i put up stuff i had in mind and i kind of get shot down everytime what products do you think work or should be used?

You are getting shot down because you are proposing compounds that conflict with each other or don't belong. For starters, clomid, sustain alpha, and lean xtreme are a good base for a pct. However, depending on what you take you'll want to take these compounds at different times and in different amounts for different durations. Also, this is just the BASE for your cycle's pct - it is not complete.

I'm not trying to be an ass but try to understand, you may encounter an expected problem mid-cycle, a change in your body, and you need to know how to deal with that, what to take, and how to recognize the symptoms of such a side effect. You also need preliminary baseline blood work before you start. The search feature on this website should give you a good idea of where to start.

Most importantly STEROIDS WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU IF YOUR DIET AND TRAINING ARE NOT IN LINE. I recommend spending a year eating right and training right before going aas.

 

[steviestv8]

my diet was in check perfect until about 2 months ago i can get back on it easily and so is my workout i used to weight 280 pounds with like 24%bf now im 215-220 14 -15% i can get my diet in check i am just getting so many different ideas for cycles and pst and stuff to take for gyno and mid cycle probs i just want someone to give me a set example they thinki is effective and i will prob adjust it a bit and see what you think

 

[steviestv8]

im going to say what im thinking of doing for bulking cycle le me know what you think about dosages.
testc
hcg start 2 weeks before end of cycle do it for 3 week total
clomid start first day post and continue for one month
and nolva for one month

now destroy this for me and tell me im totally wrong

 

[CrazyChemist]

im going to say what im thinking of doing for bulking cycle le me know what you think about dosages.
testc
hcg start 2 weeks before end of cycle do it for 3 week total
clomid start first day post and continue for one month
and nolva for one month

now destroy this for me and tell me im totally wrong

You're totally wrong. hCG should be run on-cycle starting 2 weeks into the cycle and stopped 2 weeks before the cycle ends. THis give ur HPTA time to start producing its own LH again. You don't need to run clomid and nolva together, they are both serms. Here is an example cycle:

Wk.1-12
test c 500mg/we
hCG 1000iu/wk (starting wk 3, ending wk. 10)
nolva @ 20mg E2D or 10mg ED
formex 100mg ED

Wk. 13
Creatine
Post cycle support
formex 100mg ED

Wk. 14-17
Clomid (100/50/50/25)
Sustain alpha
Creatine
Post cycle support

Wk. 16-19
Arimidex 1.5/1.0/0.5/0.25
Lean Xtreme
Creatine
Post cycle support