Help with Cut: Epi/Tren

[HeavyHands]

Hey guys. I'd like to know what you think of my idea for a big time cutting cycle involving Epistane and KS Trenadrol. I have never used these two products standalone, so I figure that using Epi first then bridging over to the Tren might be best...

Epi: 20/30/30/30
Tren: 0/0/0/30/60/60
Cycle Support
Vit b-6
L-Tyrosine
Taurine
Fish Oil
CoQ10
ECY Stack
DHEA (in case of libido issues)

Post Cycle:
PCS
Tribulus
Continue with L-Tyrosine, Taurine, Fish Oil, CoQ10
Tamoxifen on hand (run 10/10/10/10?)

My dosages are a bit conservative because I have not tried these compounds before and I am more concerned with making this a cutting cycle with as minimal sides as possible. My diet will be very clean, probably eating around 2300 calories a day.

Thoughts as far as cycle length (thought keeping it shorter may also minimize sides)? And what about PCT? Should I add Reversitol or something similar to give it an extra punch?

Looking to start this up in about a week and a half or so. I have pretty much everything I need already so I'm just waiting until I plan this out as perfectly as I can.

Thanks!

 

[UKStrength]

If you've not used either compound before I'd do one or the other to assess sides/tolerance. Whilst Epi/Tren complement easch other well, they're very different compounds with different side effects.

Your dosages for the compounds look ok, although I think the Tren dosage is too low? (confirmation from a vet would be cool )

What are your dosages for ECY? Both Epi and Tren will augment blood pressure issues, this might be something to bear in mind as ECY is pretty potent.

The PCT looks solid mate, reversitol contains an AI and I'm not keen on them during PCT (especially if you're running a SERM like nolvadex), I'd choose nolva or reversitol not both. Have you got enough nolva to bump the dosage if it's not enough?

I think some Mucuna Pruriens would be better for prolactin control than L-Tyrosine.

 

[HeavyHands]

UK, I appreciate the reply!!

The ECY supplement I am using is called Zenalean Stack. Ingredients: 875 mg Ephedra Extract (25 mg leaves), Caffeine Anhydrous, Yohimbe Bark Extract (6% Yohimbine), Citrus Auranthium (6% Synephrine), Gugglesterones 1:1, Theobromine, Vitamin B-12. Its a great product that I've been on for about a month and half and will continue to use through my cycle (will take a week off of it before going on).

I do have enough Nolva to bump it up if its not enough, so I think I'll save my money and just stick with the SERM.

I'll also look into the Mucuna Pruriens - thanks!

 

[HeavyHands]

Bump for more insight

 

[AE14]

the tren is a bit low, and could arguably go as high as 90-120 depending. Personally, without knowing your age or any other details about you, I would suggest doing a bit more research on it, prior to jumping both feet into the water.

 

[HeavyHands]

Thanks for the reply, AE14 - I really appreciate your input.

It seems the tren dose is definitely low and maybe I'll run it 60/90/90 instead.. As for age and lifting history and what not, I'm 21, lifting for a few years now but seriously for about a year and a half. Trained by a retired IFBB Pro, so I know my diet and training are on point. I have been leaning out for the last couple of months but want to really get as shredded as I can for summer. Sitting at about 15% if I had to guess. Would love to hit 11 or 10%.

 

[HeavyHands]

Also, Creatine while on? Been using for awhile now, but should I discontinue until PCT?

 

[Liftingstud]

It really depends on your diet bro. I put on 15 lbs on a havoc tren run and was slightly above maintance cals. I stacked the two though 30/30/40/40 for havoc and 90/90/90/90 for tren. Got super strong. After pct kept 13lbs. What's your diet and training and cardio setup?

 

[HeavyHands]

It really depends on your diet bro. I put on 15 lbs on a havoc tren run and was slightly above maintance cals. I stacked the two though 30/30/40/40 for havoc and 90/90/90/90 for tren. Got super strong. After pct kept 13lbs. What's your diet and training and cardio setup?

Liftingstud - thanks for taking the time to reply! Sounds like you had a productive cycle!

As far as diet and training - I train with Phil Hernon so I don't want to give too many secrets away.. But I eat a very strict number of macros every meal. On cycle I plan on getting 260g protein, 140g carb, 80g fat which will give me 2320 calories daily. I train 3 days on, 1 day off - cardio each workout.

What kind of sides did you experience, and what did you run along side your cycle/PCT to combat these sides?

 

[Liftingstud]

Hahaha that's a funny post... "His secrets" still laughing... One would think his secrets could get you down to single digit bf% without the use of anabolics. You could probably get just as much training info from mags and books... Just cause he is a former pro doesn't mean anything... Tips are always great but you have to find what works for you and your body. I mean I am 190 eat 3300 to 3500 for maintance, no cardio and stay single digit bf. Now that would work for everyone I just know my body.

That being said. I would start off with either epi or tren since u haven't used either. If you really want a nice recomp hdrol works well but has to be run for 5-6 wks due to fact it takes a while to really kick in. I would go with epi first. 30/30/30-40/30-40. Then next go round throw in tren. More is not always better.

 

[HeavyHands]

Hahaha that's a funny post... "His secrets" still laughing... One would think his secrets could get you down to single digit bf% without the use of anabolics. You could probably get just as much training info from mags and books... Just cause he is a former pro doesn't mean anything... Tips are always great but you have to find what works for you and your body. I mean I am 190 eat 3300 to 3500 for maintance, no cardio and stay single digit bf. Now that would work for everyone I just know my body.

That being said. I would start off with either epi or tren since u haven't used either. If you really want a nice recomp hdrol works well but has to be run for 5-6 wks due to fact it takes a while to really kick in. I would go with epi first. 30/30/30-40/30-40. Then next go round throw in tren. More is not always better.

With all due respect, I did not intend for it to be funny. I simply meant that its more of a confidentiality thing given the fact that I, along with others, pay for his services. I did not mean secrets in terms of "secret formula" or something - because we all know there is no such thing in this sport, anabolics or not! I have made great improvements since getting him to help and I have really learned alot about diet, training, and myself. I simply am looking for that final push for summer I suppose. Also, that is truly great to hear of your success! It certainly does come down to finding out what works for your body, there is no doubt about that. It seems you've found it.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Liftingstud]

I ask about training bc there can be simple modifications that help burn fat... ie super, tri, giant set training along with varying cardio such a type and HIT vs steady state. Then diet because it depends when u eat your carbs too.

 

[HeavyHands]

I ask about training bc there can be simple modifications that help burn fat... ie super, tri, giant set training along with varying cardio such a type and HIT vs steady state. Then diet because it depends when u eat your carbs too.

Definitely. However, I know there is ALWAYS debate about these different types of training and it seems to lead in circles... Some say super setting is counter-productive, some say it will burn more calories through raising the heart rate... High reps vs low reps... Carb cycling... there is tons of debate around all of these different methods. But again, I think this definitely comes back to the best point you brought up - we all need to find what works best for our bodies. This seems like a different topic entirely, however ha.

Liftingstud, any bad sides with your cycle? What did you run to combat these?

 

[Liftingstud]

Nope but not for someone that hasn't run either compound seperate. You have no idea how urbodyis going to react just run the epi and see. It's great on it's own. Tren can be a beast of strength. Both together is great but not for a newbie. Run epi and u will be happy

 

[HeavyHands]

Thanks alot for the replies and input - you've given me something to think about! I'm new to these compounds, but not completely new to dipping into PHs as I've ran sus500 before with some big time gains. However given that these two are quite different I should probably be smart about it and run one, get some time off, and try the other. I guess I got too anxious and wanted to get real shredded too fast and did not think about the possibility of how my body could or could not react. Thanks again!

 

[Liftingstud]

Thanks alot for the replies and input - you've given me something to think about! I'm new to these compounds, but not completely new to dipping into PHs as I've ran sus500 before with some big time gains. However given that these two are quite different I should probably be smart about it and run one, get some time off, and try the other. I guess I got too anxious and wanted to get real shredded too fast and did not think about the possibility of how my body could or could not react. Thanks again!

sus500 is a combo of tren and Max LMG. both of which are progestins. the big gains are from the fact that Max LMG with WET, WET, WET gains. Then the Tren can really increase strength. This is why you did so well.

I would definately run the Epi at 30-40mg, is where most find the sweet spot, some go 50 but probably not needed. When I have run Epi 20 seems just a waste. Then if you decide to add in the Tren start at 60 and can go up to 90. Wouldnt go much higher. Support supps with progestins should be p5p and/or L-dopa(something like powerful), both of which protect against prolactin sides. Also you want to preload Cycle Support for 2 wks prior to starting. Tren can be rough on the BP, also. Some say clomid is better that novla for PCT due to novla ability to upregulate progestin receptors. That being said when I ran my cycle I didnt know this used nolva and had no problems.

Cycle:
Havoc 30/30/40/40
Tren 60/60/60 for 3 days then 90 for 4 days/90

My PCT was as followed:
week 1: novla 30mg
week 2: novla 20mg
week 3: novla 10mg, Start AI and test booster
week 4: novla 10mg, AI tapering, test booster
week 5: AI further tapering, test booster
week 6: lowest dose AI, test booster

You can start the AI week 1 and slower ramp up the dosage to the high dosage wk 3 and then taper. Some avoid the AI totally in PCT. You can also add in anti cort.

I had no major problems/sides with my cycle. Few HAs at the start but BP was slightly elevated nothing major and went back to normal after cycle. Also some mild lethargy toward the end. Nothing beats a lunch time nap, LOL.

Also stay away from prewo and stims while on tren bc really screw with BP. Save your creatine til PCT.

 

[supershah]

hi, was wondering, u only started Test booster at week 3, Can it be started with Nolva? Whats the reason for you not stacking it together with the weeks that you take nolva in the first 2 weeks?