johnyq's 1-T tren log

[johnyq]

johnyq does primordial performance 1-T Tren standalone

Cycle:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

6 weeks of 1-T tren, 5 pumps a day in the morning after a shower.

I will run concurrently at 3 days on, 3 days off.

All other supplements:
NA-RALA, 200mg a day
GSE
whey protein
creatine post workout
P-5-P 200mg
fish oil
sesamin oil
pomegranite
flax seed
Resveratrol (nitro250) (will not take on same day as sustain alpha application)
melatonin 2mg at night


Previous supplements used

1-t, dermacrine, drive, rpm, cre-o2, somnidren-gh, zmk, leviathan reloaded, etc, etc, etc


Stats
---------------------------------------------------------------------

current powerlifting total:
bench:260
squat:360
deadlift: 375


weight: 196lbs

height: 5'7
right arm: 15.75"
left arm: 15.75"
waist at naval: 39"
right calf: 15.25"

pics: I plan to grab some decent pics soon. I will only be posting them here.


goals
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lean out some while putting on about 8 pounds.

My interest is powerlifting, and getting stronger is important. I hope to hit a new total of 1100 with this cycle (currently 995).


diet
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be following precision nutrition guidelines closely.


40g of protein every 3hours wiht vegetables (~200g of protein a day)
some fruit mixed in

carb sources other than fruit will only be consumed after working out only.


training
---------------------------------------------------------------------

My routine: An EFS-westside beginner template. 4 days; 2 are upper body, 2 are lower body. Alternating speedwork days and max effort days.

cardio: I do about 30 minutes of general conditioning before workouts, and I will be trying to stick to an early morning fasted walk. I also occasional ride to work, which is 15 minutes of cardio.


experience
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in the gym with reasonable consistency for 2.5 years now. I was training westside for skinny bastards for quite a while, and just switched it up to this new routine.

Being interested in strength and powerlifting is a fairly new thing for me. It has made the gym a very positive experience.

 

[johnyq]

DAY 1, March 30th


I did not expect to receive my package today, and was very surprised to see it after my workout. I applied it after my shower, and will assess if it effects my sleep.

Initial feedback:
Very similar to applying other primordial performance creams. The packaging is very high quality, and the cream feels like a good lotion. It did seem to have a slightly stronger smell of alcohol than I recall. After a few minutes there is no aroma remaining (verified with my wife).


Workout:

2board press

worked up to a 1RM @ 275lbs (lost an attemp at 285)


DB extensions

70x5
80x5
85x5
85x5


seated cable rows

180x8
192x8x8x8

facepulls

4sets of 12reps


straight bar curls
80x3x10


no cardio today

 

[Trauma1]

Very nice, johny! I'm along for the ride. Let me know if you have any questions along the way.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Subbed!

-Eric

 

[hman85]

subbed

 

[johnyq]

Day 2

snapped a crappy picture last night. At least it is something (as I didn't post any pics last time).




Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps in the morning after a quick shower


Workout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
sled dragging for 10 minutes
body weight step ups 30 each leg
pushups 15x3
some ab work




// box squats close stance

I normally do wide stance, combined with not being fully recovered from my last workout, I failed way early and was really pissed about it.

workup to 1RM
315x1
335 fail....



glute ham raises

4 sets of 10-12


banded good mornings

3 sets of 15 reps

reverse hyperextensions

20lbs x 10
40lbs x 10
70lbs x 8

hanging leg raises

3sets x 12reps




Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a lot of aggression in my workout today, but I think it was mainly from being upset at the early missed lift.


I don't feel like the application last night messed up my sleep, but I am pretty tired today just from not going to sleep at a reasonable time though.


weight was the same

 

[Eric Potratz]

What weight were you at when you started the 1-T?

-Eric

 

[johnyq]

What weight were you at when you started the 1-T?

-Eric

I was 186. So I'm still up 10 pounds after 3-4months.

 

[Steveoph]

Subbed here as well

 

[MrBigPR]

Subbed, your avatar is awesome.

 

[sugarkane0]

In!

^Second that avy statement.

 

[johnyq]

Thanks for following!


Day 3 April 1



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps in the morning after a quick shower


Workout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OFF day


15 minutes cardio at lunchtime (skating to work)

15 minutes of cardio before dinner (skating)

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
morning: omelet with spinach and broccoli
snack: almonds
lunch: tofu stir fry with spinach
snack: trail mix
lunch protein shake, 2scoops whey, raw milk, blueberries
night: chicken brest grilled, with spinach, 2 glasses merlot


Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have noticed increase appetite, and definitely increase in thirst. I can't get enough water it seems.


I have been slightly extra snippy. I was pretty tired though, so that could have been it.

I haven't been falling asleep like I normally do, but waking up hasn't been a problem either.

 

[MrBigPR]

How did you feel during cardio?

 

[Marsh11]

Subbing to this. Product looks sick

 

[johnyq]

How did you feel during cardio?

Felt normal.

 

[Knowbull]

Looking at your regimen, I would say you'll experience little to no sides or shutdown. I would run the Nitro daily though, or at least on workout days, JMO. I hope this is a great cycle for you and I love the way you format the log.

 

[johnyq]

thanks knowbull, I might just go ahead and take the tween80 on sustain alpha days. I don't start sustain alpha until next week.


Day 4 April 2



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps in the morning after a quick shower


Workout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OFF day


No cardio today.


Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
morning: omelet with spinach and broccoli
lunch: grilled chicken with spinach
lunch 2: protein shake, 2scoops whey, raw milk, GSE, kale, blueberries
night: chicken breast grilled, with spinach
snack: cottage cheese


Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same feelings as yesterday only amplified. Feeling very moody, perhaps aggresive. This could still be from sleep, but I dont think so. Hunger and thirst still up; I'll finish what is a large meal for me, and feel hungry again in no time.

 

[Knowbull]

Yeah, that mood thing could be unrelated or transient. What defines "raw milk" does that mean you have a cow in the garage?

 

[Dragon13]

Subbin in johnnyq.

If I may ask, why the Na-R-ALA on cycle? Being "on" will (or should) allow vastly improved nutrient partitioning as it is; unless your diet is very carb-heavy (and it sounds like it certainly is not), any reason you feel the need to control blood sugar even further with the ALA? I might even think hypoglycemia could be possible unless the carb intake is high.

Good luck with this run.

 

[johnyq]

ALA is a staple for me, I take it for its many other benefits. I've not ever had issues with hypoglycemia, perhaps my dose isn't large enough to cause that response? Thanks for the feedback, I can't rep you right now...

Yeah, that mood thing could be unrelated or transient. What defines "raw milk" does that mean you have a cow in the garage?

I purchased a cow share, which just means I own part of a cow along with a few other people. The milk from that cow gets distributed proportionally to each of the owners in its raw form, which just means it has not been homogeonized nor pastuerized. I get a gallon of raw milk each week right now. The reason for all of this is because it is illegal to sell raw milk due to FDA regulations, however you can drink milk from your own cow.

I found out about it through super human radio and this website:
http://www.realmilk.com/where1.html

 

[Steveoph]

I've looked into a cow share, but there was nothing available near me

It sounds like the ALA wasn't high enough to cause hypoglycemia or you took enough carbs in. It doesn't always lead to feeling hypo.

 

[Dragon13]

ALA is a staple for me, I take it for its many other benefits. I've not ever had issues with hypoglycemia, perhaps my dose isn't large enough to cause that response? Thanks for the feedback, I can't rep you right now...




I purchased a cow share, which just means I own part of a cow along with a few other people. The milk from that cow gets distributed proportionally to each of the owners in its raw form, which just means it has not been homogeonized nor pastuerized. I get a gallon of raw milk each week right now. The reason for all of this is because it is illegal to sell raw milk due to FDA regulations, however you can drink milk from your own cow.

I found out about it through super human radio and this website:
http://www.realmilk.com/where1.html

Gotcha man, just checkin' cause I use ALA too when carb intake is higher. You're right, it's also a very powerful anti-oxidant. Good stuff.

 

[Knowbull]

ALA is a staple for me, I take it for its many other benefits. I've not ever had issues with hypoglycemia, perhaps my dose isn't large enough to cause that response? Thanks for the feedback, I can't rep you right now...




I purchased a cow share, which just means I own part of a cow along with a few other people. The milk from that cow gets distributed proportionally to each of the owners in its raw form, which just means it has not been homogeonized nor pastuerized. I get a gallon of raw milk each week right now. The reason for all of this is because it is illegal to sell raw milk due to FDA regulations, however you can drink milk from your own cow.

I found out about it through super human radio and this website:
http://www.realmilk.com/where1.html

Absolutely unreal! lol The truth is stranger than fiction ! Thanks for mentioninig that though, and for posting the link. Ive met people that were raised on raw milk, they were huge and seldom caught colds.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Ridin' shotgun for this one! Sounds good so far...

 

[johnyq]

thanks, glad to have you along!


Day 5 April 3



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN in the morning after a quick shower


Workout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
climb treadmill wall 3 minutes
step ups, each leg x30
glute ham raises, 30 total
good mornings with stretch bands

Dynamic effort upper body day

Bench press speed work

wide grip
2x3x155

medium grip
3x3x155

wide grip
3x3x155


Bench press
work up to 5 RM

185x5
195x5
205x5
215x5



chinups
body weight

x12
x9
x8


rear delt raises
25lbs x 10
25lbs x 8
20lbs x 10


Dips

3x10reps


rolling thunder (grip work)
worked up to holding 80lbs


Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
morning: omelet with spinach and broccoli
lunch: lamb with hummus
preworkout: protein shake, 2scoops whey, raw milk, GSE, blueberries
post workout: shake, 1scoop whey, raw milk, blueberries, creatine
dinner:salmon on spinach, a small amount of rice
snack: cottage cheese


Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the negative feelings seem to be gone, will continue to mointor. My hunger and thirst still seem elevated.

The workout felt great. I did some extra work (dips and grip) just because I was feeling awesome. I would have liked to lift some heavy crap.

I don't notice much visual change. I feel leaner in the chest, but it might be mental.

weight: 196.5lbs (+.5lbs)

 

[johnyq]

Day 6 April 4



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, late afternoon after an early workout and yard work.


Workout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPP
none

Dynamic effort lower body day

deadlift against stretch bands

I used the black band, wrapped once but pulled tight

8sets x 3reps x 175pounds


hyper extensions
20 pounds with the rollers

3 x 10reps



belt squats
10x55lbs
10x60lbs
10x70
10x80
10x90
10x100
10x110


prowler (sled) pushing
90lbs + sled

1 x 150yards


prowler push + tire flip + sledge hammer
circuit style

90lbs prowler x 60 yards
350lbs tire x 10 flips
sledge hammer x 10hits or so


700 pound tire
1 successful flip







Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
preworkout: shake, 2 scoops, blueberries
postworkout: shake, 1 scoop, blueberries, creatine mono
lunch: chicken breast, spinach

rest of food not eaten yet


Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
workout was really good. Flipped the 700 pound tire without too much issue for the first time (and at the end of the workout). Was pretty excited about that.

Not a whole lot other to report.

 

[MrBigPR]

Workout looks solid, diet is on point. Cant wait for this stuff to kick in. Any noticeable improvement in skin? Just wondering.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Day 6 April 4
700 pound tire
1 successful flip





.

Yur an ANIMAL johny!

-Eric

 

[johnyq]

Thanks eric!

Mrbigpr, no real change to my skin.


Day 7 April 5



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, late afternoon.
1scoop toco 8


Workout: light conditioning day
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fasted walk in the morning
30 minutes, very casual pace

GPP
dumbbell side bends 45lbs 12x3
hanging leg raises 12 x3
flat bar curls, 80lbs x 10 x 3
some grip work
elliptical 7 minutes
treadmill wall 3 minutes

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
breakfast/preworkout: shake, 2 scoops, blueberries
postworkout: trail mix (dried fruit and nuts) -went shopping, its all I had
lunch: rotisserie chicken, broccolli

plan on grilling some salmon tonight



Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
waist at naval: 38.25" (-0.75")

it wasn't just my imagination, I am definitely leaning out. Both measurements were taken after eating, so they should be fairly compared.


I started toco8 today. It is normally a staple of mine anyways, so I see no reason not to take it. I plan to take my first dose of sustain alpha tomorrow.

still hungry and still drinking a ton of water.


Alpha male mentality. Not sure I have ever experienced it before, but I was feeling it last night. Not really like me, but I just felt bravado and confidence I guess. Nothing that effected my actions much, but it was there. I could just be feeling extra confident thanks to the gym, but its never happened before.

 

[Knowbull]

I think the tire flip would provide a great ego-boost, hence, the term; mind, body, connection. I doubt that you would be getting a mood boost from 1TT this early on or any noticeable changes in muscle/fat viscosity. I could be wrong, though.

 

[johnyq]

I think the tire flip would provide a great ego-boost, hence, the term; mind, body, connection. I doubt that you would be getting a mood boost from 1TT this early on or any noticeable changes in muscle/fat viscosity. I could be wrong, though.

thanks, sounds about right for what I would expect.

 

[Knowbull]

I usually disregard any subjective perceptions until around day 12 to 14, then I can make some correlations. I did get the fat loss from 1T though, once I added the 250 to my PCT I really lost bodyfat, could be the 250 helping with the waist line, as well as other factors in your regimen. The Res. is said to mimic calorie restriction in the body. JMO

 

[Trauma1]

Day 6 April 4




700 pound tire
1 successful flip

Nice work, Johny! You're doing a great job with this log. Keep up the good work.

 

[johnyq]

I usually disregard any subjective perceptions until around day 12 to 14, then I can make some correlations. I did get the fat loss from 1T though, once I added the 250 to my PCT I really lost bodyfat, could be the 250 helping with the waist line, as well as other factors in your regimen. The Res. is said to mimic calorie restriction in the body. JMO

I could have also lost bloat just from keeping my diet really clean (no beer or processed carbs all week). I didn't really think of that.

 

[Knowbull]

I could have also lost bloat just from keeping my diet really clean (no beer or processed carbs all week). I didn't really think of that.

What? No beer? Ahh, me either, lol

 

[cranghel099]

Is 1-T Tren harsh on the liver??

 

[Dragon13]

Is 1-T Tren harsh on the liver??

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/121677-trenadrol-blood-test.html

 

[Knowbull]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/121677-trenadrol-blood-test.html

I dont think that can apply, the exact compound is still being debated, unless, of course, you know exactly what it is. Overall, 19-Nor, particularly a transdermal is thought to be not so toxic.

 

[Dragon13]

I dont think that can apply, the exact compound is still being debated, unless, of course, you know exactly what it is. Overall, 19-Nor, particularly a transdermal is thought to be not so toxic.

I was under the impression that the 30 mg version was generally believed to be the same compound as the estra-4 /19-nor. IOW, the same thing as 1-T Tren. As for the 3 mg version of that product, I have no idea.

I understand that a transdermal will be less taxing on the liver. But that link above at least gives a decent starting point.

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks, agreed, its an educated guess.

 

[Dragon13]

Thanks, agreed, its an educated guess.

Exactly.

 

[johnyq]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/121677-trenadrol-blood-test.html

thanks for that link. I think I'll add niacin to my PCT. Those lipids were pretty bad.




Day 8 April 6



Dosing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 pumps 1-T TREN, after morning shower
1scoop toco 8
6 pumps sustain alpha, after night shower

Workout: ME upper body
------------------------------------------------------------------------

GPP
15 minutes sled dragging (reverse, forward, face pulls, rows)

floor press
work up to 5RM
135x5
145x5
165x5
185x5
195x5
225x5
245x5

drop 20% and do 8 reps
185 x 8

BB rows, standing
155 x 8
165 x 8
175 x8


incline press, close grip
165x6
145x8
135x8

rear delt raises
20 x 12
20x10

YTWL x 12

Diet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
breakfast: shake, 2 scoops whey, blueberries, PB, flax seed, GSE, raw milk
snack: trail mix (dried fruit and nuts)
lunch: grilled chicken, broccolli
snack: trail mix
preworkout: rotisserie chicken
postworkout: shake, blueberries, strawberries, raw milk, creatine, whey
Dinner: ox tail ? Never had it, but thats what is for dinner. I'll let you know how it goes




Feedback
------------------------------------------------------------------------
weight: 196lbs +0

I was very tired all day, it was almost painful to work and then go to the gym. Could be from a couple of factors (just started taking claritin for allergies). I'll continue to monitor.

workout was decent, although I surprised myself with how weak I was at the incline bench close grip.

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks for updateing. Its been said that using local bee pollen or honey made in your geographic area can help with allergies. Personally, I dont like to use any of the products for that condition and if needed I just take sudafed. Is it a sinus thing?

 

[johnyq]

Thanks for updateing. Its been said that using local bee pollen or honey made in your geographic area can help with allergies. Personally, I dont like to use any of the products for that condition and if needed I just take sudafed. Is it a sinus thing?

I have severe allergies, I can't concentrate or function without some assistance (although nothing seems terribly effective). Its just a ton of drippy nose, watery eyes, itchy eyes and throat. I went through a shot regimen when I was younger and it worked perfectly, but unfortunately it stops being effective after 7 years. I should probably just start them again, but its time consuming.

I've heard the same thing about honey. I'll try and get some unfiltered honey and try it out.


btw, (in response to my dinner tonight) ox tail was delicious but very fatty.

 

[DLM5]

Bro, I have a few comments about your diet and your stated goals for this cycle.
You say you want to lean out and gain 8lbs on this cycle.

Well, it's a general rule that you need to take in at least 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight to grow muscle.. at your weight of 196lbs x 1.5 = 294 grams. I like even better the idea you eat for what your target weight is.. so 204 lbs x 1.5 grams = 306 grams... keep in mind some guys will eat up to 2 grams of protein per pound
At the 200 grams of protein a day your getting, I don't think you will see much gain on this cycle. You might have on your 1T cycle, but your bigger now and if that was your first PH cycle, well you get the honeymoon effect.. gains come easier on the front end...
I do think if you keep up the cardio and your diet as you have it, you can end up with a nice recomp.. increase the cardio and you can drop some serious BF without a lot of muscle loss on this cycle. But I don't see 8 pounds coming outta this cycle after your PCT..
Still on your diet.. well your keeping the carbs lowish. If the carbs are low the protein has to be high if you want to put on some muscle. When carbs are low your body will convert the protein into carbs, this is great for a thermogenic effect and burns calories in the conversion. ( I can't remember the term for this, but someone prolly will ).. so with your carbs low and your protein low, and the energy your using in your workouts, sonme protien is goona be used for energy.. well I expect some BF to be shed, throw in the leaning effect of the Tren and I see this cycle being a nice cut..
another point is your meal planing.. rule of thumb is 6 balanced meals a day, some guys will go 7 or even 8 meals.. the snacks of nuts or cottage cheese dont' count as a meal, plus they aren't balanced with your other meals.. unbalanced meals cause your insluin level to jump around during the day.. a steady insulin level is a good thing, for either losing BF or putting on muscle..
6 even spaced and balanced meals giving you the 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight is a good start.. what you do with your carbs is open to debate.. but I think most guys would agree on the balanced meals and protein intake..
Maybe some other guys will comment on this post and you'll get some other opinions..
I'll be watching you log and wish you the best of sucess.. I'm sitting on this same stack and look foward to any info I can glean off of your log about the results this product gives..
Hit it hard, Bro!:dl:

 

[DLM5]

SOURCE CREDIT TO: Matthew Jonhson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein - Why Is It Important
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Protein is one of the most important substances we consume. After this article you will know how much protein your body needs. The function it plays in survival, the way it is processed and used.

Other than water, protein is the most abundant nutrient in the body. Protein is a chain of linked units called amino acids. The protein you eat is split apart into these amino acids, absorbed in the small intestines, then rearranged and put back in the blood stream. These new arranged proteins carry out specific functions to maintain life. All living tissues are made up of twenty-two essential and nonessential amino acids. Essential amino acids are not made by the body and must be supplied through diet. There are nine essential amino acids: Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, Tryptophan, and Valine. The remaining thirteen are nonessential amino acids produced in the body and not essential to consume through the diet.


Twenty two in all. Amino acids are divided into 2 groups:
Essential Non-essential
Histidine Alanine
Isoleucine Arginine
Leucine Aspartic Acid
Lysine Cysteine
Methionine Cystine
Phenylalanine Glutamic Acid
Tryptophan Glutamine
Threonine Glycine
Valine Hydroxyproline
Proline
Serine
Tyrosine


Protein provides four calories per gram. The human body can do three things with protein calories; put protein in fat stores, use it as an energy source or use it to carry out functions vital to life. Protein calories will be used as an energy source when the body is lacking fat or carbohydrate calories for fuel. When the body receives sufficient quantities of proteins, fats and carbohydrates, protein will carry out its specific functions. These proteins functions include: replacement of old cells, building muscles, organs, blood, nails, hair, skin, and tissues. Protein also takes part in hormone, antibodies, and enzyme formation.
Fasting your body without proper protein intake will cause your body to slowly start shutting down. You must not only eat enough protein, but you must eat the right types. Without the right amount of essential proteins, no matter how much you eat, your body will waste the protein and not run properly.

A diet that is low in essential amino acids does not carry out all of its protein functions. Protein follows the all-or-none law: inadequate amounts of essential amino acids cause the body to excrete proteins in urine as urea. The remainder of the protein is converted to glucose, fat, or metabolized for energy. This lack of essential amino acids prevents proteins from performing their normal functions. Foods that have all nine of the essential amino acids are called complete proteins. Complete proteins include all food from animal products, milk, cheese, chicken, beef, and ext. Don't worry folks! Proteins that are incomplete (plant products) can be combined with complementary proteins that carry the missing amino acids to form a complete protein. Examples of incomplete protein are grains, cereals, and vegetables. To complement these proteins you would combine beans with grains, or nuts with cereal.

 

[Dragon13]

diet
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be following precision nutrition guidelines closely.

Bro, I have a few comments about your diet and your stated goals for this cycle. Etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

:34:

Please google "Precision Nutrition" or "Dr. John Berardi". If Johnyq is following PN, the last thing he needs is someone critiquing his diet.

 

[DLM5]

:34:

Please google "Precision Nutrition" or "Dr. John Berardi". If Johnyq is following PN, the last thing he needs is someone critiquing his diet.

Dragon, it seems to be your MO to try to discredit peeps.. you pulled that back on Silvers Tren thread to GMG.. You were the guy who said you gotta eat in calorie surplus to put on muscle fast on a 6 week oral cycle, now your trying to discredit me with a diff point of view than you had before.. I know you understand how to eat from that thread, and now your PRO this recomp type diet? I'm not gonna be dragged any farther than this post on this thread with you. I'll say my peace and be done.

Bro, everyone tries to re-invent the wheel.. but it's still round...
It's my opinion that his diet is in conflict with his stated goals.. Furthermore his diet IMO isn't doing the 1T-Tren any justice at all in loggin it's ablity to put on LBM.. It's gonna show a recomp on 1T-Tren, fact is in 8 days there has been no weight gain. That doesn't mean he isn't putting on some muscle, but losing more fat. Muscle weighs more than fat, if he was putting on more muscle than losing fat, his weight would be going up.
I ate more than this and stayed at a ripped 170lbs for years and hella strong and lighting fast with insane indurance for my size.. why didn't I get bigger? Bucz I have a fast metab and choose not to get bigger, not bcuz I didn't know how to eat to gain mass..
If your looking for a recomp, then the "PN" program will work.. If your in good shape and looking to stay fit year round "PN" will work... but your not gonna be packing much muscle on 1.02 grams of protein per pound..
But if you want to gain 8lbs of LBM and keep it post PCT on a 6 week PH cycle, well it's garbage, IMO.. Any diet being used with serious weight training and some cardio that calls for 1.02 grams of protein per pound of body weight is gonna get a thumbs down from me.. and that's what he's doing.. 200 grams divided by 196lbs = 1.02 grams per pound... can you increase your ratio of LBM to BF on the PN? Yes, if your in poor shape it can do wonders. But if your in good shape it can be catabolic IMO...
Bro, I know how to eat and train with intensity.. I'm holding 12.5lbs of LBM at the end of PCT from my 6 week Tren cycle, and I did 110 miles fasted cardio on the stationary bike last week alone, the last week of my PCT.. that is CATABOLIC, and I'm still holding 12.5lbs of LBM. I can tell you I sure the hell didn't do it on a piss-ant 1.02 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Furthermore I could be 20lbs heavier than I am if I choose to eat to grow that big.
What seems to set some guys apart is that they have learned how to eat to grow. Protein intake for serious BBing is at least 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Start looking around at the guys who make gains, look at the protein intake of the Pro's. Now some guys will go big carbs on a bulk, and other's keep the carbs lowish on a bulk. But they ALL eat way flippin more than 1.02 grams of protein per pound of body weight. That is a indusputable fact.
I think you know it's true, you just chose to try to discredit me. Must have been the mood you were in at the time, huh?
But don't tell me I'm not free to speak my mind on what I see as a deficincy in some ones diet and his stated goal of putting on 8lbs of LBM. It's not cool to tell me I'm not intitled to speak my mind.
If Johnyq decides to not listen to me, he's free to roll that way. I won't take it personal, and I have nothing against him personaly.

 

[johnyq]

I post my diet so everything is in the open, and any feedback on any aspect of my diet or training I definitely appreciate, and won't turn away without some consideration. The support on AM is great

My immediate responses:
1. 200g is really my minimum target (at least 40g a meal). I believe with many of my meals being a decent amount of animal protein, I am getting closer to 300g. This doesn't mean I can't bump it up more, just clarifying.

2. Each meal is mixed with fat and fiber, slowing the digestion of the protein. I'm not really sold on the idea that I would need to eat more often with this in mind, but when its possible I'll keep my meals 2 hours apart ( = 6-7 meals a day, from 5-6)

3. I planned to reassess my diet approach come 2-3 weeks into the run anyways

4. precision nutrition has a few approaches. I am obviously not doing the 'bulking' approach (which adds in a lot of carbs). Any failure on my part should not reflect on PN, as this is simply my best take on how to apply to my situation.

5. You are right, my snack time of nuts should be complete full meals. I will work on this, and package some chicken, etc, to add to the list. However, the cottage cheese was just something to throw down before going to sleep, it wasn't really meal time.

 

[Dragon13]

Dragon, it seems to be your MO to try to discredit peeps.. you pulled that back on Silvers Tren thread to GMG.. You were the guy who said you gotta eat in calorie surplus to put on muscle fast on a 6 week oral cycle, now your trying to discredit me with a diff point of view than you had before.. I know you understand how to eat from that thread, and now your PRO this recomp type diet? I'm not gonna be dragged any farther than this post on this thread with you. I'll say my peace and be done.

Bro, everyone tries to re-invent the wheel.. but it's still round...
It's my opinion that his diet is in conflict with his stated goals.. Furthermore his diet IMO isn't doing the 1T-Tren any justice at all in loggin it's ablity to put on LBM.. It's gonna show a recomp on 1T-Tren, fact is in 8 days there has been no weight gain. That doesn't mean he isn't putting on some muscle, but losing more fat. Muscle weighs more than fat, if he was putting on more muscle than losing fat, his weight would be going up.
I ate more than this and stayed at a ripped 170lbs for years and hella strong and lighting fast with insane indurance for my size.. why didn't I get bigger? Bucz I have a fast metab and choose not to get bigger, not bcuz I didn't know how to eat to gain mass..
If your looking for a recomp, then the "PN" program will work.. If your in good shape and looking to stay fit year round "PN" will work... but your not gonna be packing much muscle on 1.02 grams of protein per pound..
But if you want to gain 8lbs of LBM and keep it post PCT on a 6 week PH cycle, well it's garbage, IMO.. Any diet being used with serious weight training and some cardio that calls for 1.02 grams of protein per pound of body weight is gonna get a thumbs down from me.. and that's what he's doing.. 200 grams divided by 196lbs = 1.02 grams per pound... can you increase your ratio of LBM to BF on the PN? Yes, if your in poor shape it can do wonders. But if your in good shape it can be catabolic IMO...
Bro, I know how to eat and train with intensity.. I'm holding 12.5lbs of LBM at the end of PCT from my 6 week Tren cycle, and I did 110 miles fasted cardio on the stationary bike last week alone, the last week of my PCT.. that is CATABOLIC, and I'm still holding 12.5lbs of LBM. I can tell you I sure the hell didn't do it on a piss-ant 1.02 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Furthermore I could be 20lbs heavier than I am if I choose to eat to grow that big.
What seems to set some guys apart is that they have learned how to eat to grow. Protein intake for serious BBing is at least 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Start looking around at the guys who make gains, look at the protein intake of the Pro's. Now some guys will go big carbs on a bulk, and other's keep the carbs lowish on a bulk. But they ALL eat way flippin more than 1.02 grams of protein per pound of body weight. That is a indusputable fact.
I think you know it's true, you just chose to try to discredit me. Must have been the mood you were in at the time, huh?
But don't tell me I'm not free to speak my mind on what I see as a deficincy in some ones diet and his stated goal of putting on 8lbs of LBM. It's not cool to tell me I'm not intitled to speak my mind.
If Johnyq decides to not listen to me, he's free to roll that way. I won't take it personal, and I have nothing against him personaly.

DLM, I am not trying to discredit you at all, and you are free to speak your mind. Don't know where I said otherwise. I don't really have time right now to type out a long detailed response, but these quotes are the gist of my main contention with your post: "it's a general rule that you need to take in at least 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight to grow muscle". Oh really? 2) "If the carbs are low the protein has to be high". Indeed? Let me offer this up for discussion:

Is protein intake the key dietary factor for muscle growth, or is it total caloric intake? Think macronutrient preference here. Also, what about the role of nutrient timing? When will protein intake be maximized where we want it to be - to build muscle? I will expound on these at another time.

Secondly, Dr. Berardi is one of the preeminent nutritionists maybe in the world, and a bodybuilder; do you really think he would design a nutrition program with too little protein? As an example, Berardi's "Get Shredded Diet" suggests a caloric intake of around 2000 kcal for a 200-lb trainee, with 30-35% coming from protein. Using the higher figure, that's 700 kcals, or 175 grams. Gasp! Less than a g/lb of BW! And this is on a highly kcal-restricted, would-be-catabolic type diet.

As for balanced meals and insulin spikes - cottage cheese and nuts won't spike insulin!

All that said, I will admit I didn't remember accuratey johnyq's stated goals. I was thinking straight recomp; an 8lb gain plus a significant loss in fat, yeah, maybe that is a bit optimistic. I do 100% believe in a caloric surplus to put on muscle (not so much a matter of belief as a matter of fact); I don't see how I now have a different point of view?

Finally, as for being pro recomp-type diet: I put in an application on the PP 1-T Tren Sponsored log thread that details my feelings on recomping fairly well. Read that, I don't have time to retype it now. Suffice to say someone using Tren may be one of the only times I would agree recomping can be done effectively (and that is still only an educated guess).

-Dragon

PS - I disagreed civilly with GMG on that other thread, and he then launched an attack on me. He was the instigator there, not I.