Havoc with Furazadrol Frontload

celc5

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Dosing Plan:
Havoc 30/30/40/40
Furazadrol 300/200/200/200
*Superdrol 10mg (day 20-26)/20mg day 27+
*Formestane/Trione 40-80mg TD each day 20+


Support Plan:
Hawthorne Berry (preloaded)
SamE
Taurine (starting day 8 or 10)
Fish Oils, Multi, C
DHEA
*B6, Powerfull, Tryrosine Day 20+

PCT Plan:
Torem
Hyperdrol x2
PowerFull
Lean Extreme

Goals:
Recomp: +5 lean mass, -5 fat
Strength: I expect strength to increase, although this is not a priority for me
Consideration for Sides: blood pressure, joints, libido toward the end of the cycle

History:
CEL H-drol
AX Pheraplex

ON Routine:
M: Shoulders, Abs
T: Deads, Back, Bis
W: Off
Th: Chest, Tris, Abs
Fri: Legs
Sat: Optional Arms, Abs

*Each Bodypart is worked for 3 movements
*3x5, 3x10, 3x15

Cardio:
-HIIT 20min 2x/wk
-stationary bike steady state 20min 2x/week

PCT Routine:
Typical HST split
This will be my fourth HST plan

Diet:
300-400 protein
300-400 carbs
50-60 fat
will be adjusted per weekly skinfolds
 
celc5

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Statistical Progression:
...........Weight.....BF%.....Lean Mass.....Bodyfat
Initial....189.8......15.15......161.05.........28.75
Wk. 1....190.2......14.86......161.94........28.26
Wk. 2....195.2......16.73......162.55........32.65
Wk. 3....197.4......16.16......165.51........31.89
Wk. 4....198.4......15.77......167.11........31.29
Wk. 5... 198.2......15.00......168.47........29.73

Weekly Summary:

Week 1:
Havoc 30
Furaz 300

(+): decrease rest between sets, increased libido, increased drive and motivation in the gym
(-): lethargy, increased thirst, increased urination

Week 2:
Havoc 30
Furaz 200

(+): same as week 1
(-): same as week 1, increased propensity to gain bf

Week 3:
Havoc 40
Furaz 200

(+): same; enhanced recomp/lean mass effect
(-): lethargy is increasing, mild back pumps, mild testicular atrophy, occasional mild bacne

Week 4:
Havoc 40
Furaz 200
SD 10
trione/form TD mix

(+): increased overall fullness; mild increased vascularity; continued recomp
(-): lethargy, mild testicular atrophy

Week 5
SD 20
form/trione TD mix

(+): increased all day pump; increased all day vascularity; enhanced recomp effect
(-): lethargy, poor workout motivation/burnout, pumps/cramping interfered with workouts, loss of libido

Final Review:

Havoc

The 30/30/40/40 dosing scheme was excellent for strength, improved between set recovery, and libido enhancement. In terms of lean mass, week 2 at 30mg was sort of unproductive.

For newbies, 30/30/40/40 should work just fine with a relatively easy recovery. In my personal opinion at this dosage, I think I would have used an all OTC pct if I hadn't bridged to Superdrol.

For those with a few cycles under their belt and looking for more mass, 30/40/50/50 or 60 should help to keep the mass gains going in a positive direction. I suspect more aggressive dosing may be a bit more suppressive and effect libido in a negative manner.

In hindsight, Havoc delivered as expected. The pros strongly outweighed the cons with this product.

Side commonly associated with epithios typically target BP, joints, shedding, and aggression. I had none of these issues. It is possible that the Hawthorne Berry helped with BP. It's also possible that Nizarol OTC helped prevent shedding. It's possible that SamE helped to keep me cool mood wise. I used no joint support other than fish oils during this stack.

Furazadrol

During the first week, I belive that the 300mg of Furaz may have played a small role in recomp, bf loss effect. However, I felt that it had no effect at 200mg.

In my personal opinion, Furaz is not a product that I'd use in any recomp or mass building cycle. I believe I dosed it too low and with the wrong goals for this compound.

In my opinion, Furazadrol may play a more productive role in aggressive cutting cycles where muscle PRESERVATION, rather than building, was the goal.

In hindsight, I would have ommitted Furazadrol from this stack. I do not attribute any negative effects to Furazadrol.

Superdrol

"Explosive" is the perfect word to describe this compound. It delivers in the strength department within a few days, even at a low dose. Pumps were incredible in the gym after just a few days, equal to those of 3-4 weeks of phera.

I do not attribute very much testicular atrophy to my short run with Superdrol. However, libido absolutely tanked before the 2 week point. It took 3 weeks to recover libido in pct, even though testicular mass recovered quickly.

I did not have any shedding, BP issues, joint issues, or rage issues with SD. I used the same "prevention" plan as I did with Havoc for these issues.

While on SD, I used a trione/formestane AI combo to prevent estrogenic sides. On the positive end, the AI combo probably played a role in the strong recomp effect of week 5. It also enhanced libido substantially until the final day or 2. In hindsight, I believe that SD crushed estrogen and the combination set me up for a difficult transition into pct.

I also used 2 caps of PowerFull before bed while on SD. It's purpose was to act in a preventive manner against prolactin-like sides. I had very minimal, and transient at that, sensations to the nipple region.

Finally, SD didn't "feel" as horrific as some describe while on cycle. Honestly, I probably would have continued with it for about 21 days if it wasn't for the libido loss. That being said, pct has been difficult at times and I personally prefer effective compounds with easier recovery.
 
celc5

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I reserve the first 2 posts for important information. Therefore, I prefer very loose logs where discussion is encouraged. No such thing as a thread hijack in my logs :head:
 
thebigt

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I reserve the first 2 posts for important information. Therefore, I prefer very loose logs where discussion in encouraged. No such thing as a thread hijack in my logs :head:
haha, the return of the 'joker'. good luck buddy, show em how it's done.
 
celc5

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haha, the return of the 'joker'. good luck buddy, show em how it's done.
Glad you're on board T. I took your suggestion for the frontload and thought it would be a nice experiment to see logged :cheers:
 
thebigt

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Glad you're on board T. I took your suggestion for the frontload and thought it would be a nice experiment to see logged :cheers:
it's bigt tried and true. btw i see you have added powerful to your pct-nice choice. it's good to see you logging again, good luck.:clap2:
 
celc5

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Day 1

Topic: dosing strategies

Havoc 30mg
Furaz 300mg

I dosed 20mg Havoc and 150mg Furaz first thing in the morning with a shake and some fish oils. I took the rest of my doses throughout the day. I'll do my best to dose the non-methyl with plenty of fats for best absorption.

I plan to take liver support some time this evening, at least 4 hours after my last dose.

The reason I dosed all the orals earlier in the day is because I'm a sensitive sleeper. If no sleep issues arise, I may dose later in the day to allow for a heftier preworkout dosage. That would also allow for SamE first thing in the morning as usually recommended. Also, as recommended quite commonly, I'll dose a B-complex with the SamE.

Today's workout was shoulders. Nothing to note. Possibly mild increased placebo motivation, endurance, and hardness.
 
UNCfan1

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I love your logs Celc. Good luck with your goals and I am subbed.
 
celc5

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I love your logs Celc. Good luck with your goals and I am subbed.
Thanks UNC... does this stack look familiar :think:

Added stats to post #2. I'm fukcin pissed at how fat I got in the last 2 weeks. I was cutting and my last 2 wks of HST were absolutely grueling. So I caved and pretty much ate everything :rant:
 
UNCfan1

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Thanks UNC... does this stack look familiar :think:

Added stats to post #2. I'm fukcin pissed at how fat I got in the last 2 weeks. I was cutting and my last 2 wks of HST were absolutely grueling. So I caved and pretty much ate everything :rant:
No not at all:thumbsup:

Fat! Dude I haven't been training the past few weeks, not sure if you have been to LB lately but details of why are in a thread in Dinoiii's subform. So needless to say I have put on some weight as well.
 
Trauma1

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I'm SO glad to hear this my friend. I very much look forward to following along in your log. It actually really has me interested in the same type of cycle! :)

I wish you luck brother. Recomp like a mofo! :D
 
celc5

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Unc, just did a quick search to find your thread. Hope all continues to go in a positive direction with the fam :cheers:

Trauma, just think... if this stack works well, you can send it to the NE d-line so that they can wrap up Elie before he tosses up another prayer that lands on some no-names helmet :lol:
 
Trauma1

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Unc, just did a quick search to find your thread. Hope all continues to go in a positive direction with the fam :cheers:

Trauma, just think... if this stack works well, you can send it to the NE d-line so that they can wrap up Elie before he tosses up another prayer that lands on some no-names helmet :lol:
Damn you for pissing me off all over again haha!

Good luck bro.

I predict NY being in the bottom half of the division this year as well. I'd expect the Pats to be in the game all over again. ;)
 
thebigt

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Go Colts
 
milwood

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I'll be checkin' you out, celc. Good luck, and I'm interested in your results and experience!!!
 
Trauma1

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Damn you Bigt!!!!!!

Manning is damn good, however he's from UT, so i HATE him!! :) GO GATORS......Which he NEVER beat haha.

Manning after the 2007 season now looks up at brady in TD's thrown hahaha.
 
slow-mun

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Sub'd with interest:thumbsup:. BTW, are you using time released DHEA on cycle as well?
 
Trauma1

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I'd be interested in seeing you try dermacrine. I look forward to trying it myself.
 
celc5

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Milwood, welcome aboard. You gave some good feedback through my phera log so it's cool to see you around again. Feel free to chime in whenever you wish :cheers:

Sol, no time release. Just good ol generic DHEA. I'm dosing 100mg/day and spreading it throughout the day. Could you elaborate on the time release idea?

Trauma, the Dermacrine sounds interesting but I don't feel there's enough positive feedback to justify the cost. Same goes for the other popular pregnalone/dhea-esque supps that seem to be all the craze at the moment.
 
Trauma1

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Milwood, welcome aboard. You gave some good feedback through my phera log so it's cool to see you around again. Feel free to chime in whenever you wish :cheers:

Sol, no time release. Just good ol generic DHEA. I'm dosing 100mg/day and spreading it throughout the day. Could you elaborate on the time release idea?

Trauma, the Dermacrine sounds interesting but I don't feel there's enough positive feedback to justify the cost. Same goes for the other popular pregnalone/dhea-esque supps that seem to be all the craze at the moment.
I totally understand here. I wonder whether the cheap DHEA does the same thing overall. However, i still feel inclined to try the dermacrine. :)

T1
 
slow-mun

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Sol, no time release. Just good ol generic DHEA. I'm dosing 100mg/day and spreading it throughout the day. Could you elaborate on the time release idea?
Supposedly, it keeps cortisol from spiking by allowing for a slower release of DHEA. A sudden high dosage of DHEA has the potential to cause this from what I've heard. I can't post any facts or studies to back this up, so you don't have to take it as gospel. I know thebigt liked Get Diesel's version of time released DHEA(enteric coated), so I figured that's what you were using. BTW, I also have to throw a big thumb's up for Dermacrine. That stuff was great.
 
thebigt

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Supposedly, it keeps cortisol from spiking by allowing for a slower release of DHEA. A sudden high dosage of DHEA has the potential to cause this from what I've heard. I can't post any facts or studies to back this up, so you don't have to take it as gospel. I know thebigt liked Get Diesel's version of time released DHEA(enteric coated), so I figured that's what you were using. BTW, I also have to throw a big thumb's up for Dermacrine. That stuff was great.
the get diesel version was called raw test, it was discontinued. if you see it anywhere let me know. btw the dhea i am using now is 25mg, if i spread it out will i still get the cortisol spike? ive heard that dhea is good for joints, is this what helps with joints- the rise in cortisol?
 
thebigt

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Damn you Bigt!!!!!!

Manning is damn good, however he's from UT, so i HATE him!! :) GO GATORS......Which he NEVER beat haha.

Manning after the 2007 season now looks up at brady in TD's thrown hahaha.
winning the sb was a weight off his shoulders, going all the way back to college he had a rep for losing big games. btw the afc title game where the colts came back was one of the most incredible games i ever watched-i was ready to throw in the towel. the colts/pats rivalry has become the best in nfl, gotta love it.
 
Trauma1

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winning the sb was a weight off his shoulders, going all the way back to college he had a rep for losing big games. btw the afc title game where the colts came back was one of the most incredible games i ever watched-i was ready to throw in the towel. the colts/pats rivalry has become the best in nfl, gotta love it.
What a great rivalry it is! :)
 
celc5

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Supposedly, it keeps cortisol from spiking by allowing for a slower release of DHEA. A sudden high dosage of DHEA has the potential to cause this from what I've heard. I can't post any facts or studies to back this up, so you don't have to take it as gospel. I know thebigt liked Get Diesel's version of time released DHEA(enteric coated), so I figured that's what you were using. BTW, I also have to throw a big thumb's up for Dermacrine. That stuff was great.
Hmm, I was thinking the DHEA had some anti-cort properties. Then again, I don't see cortisol as having much effect on cycle anyway when an anabolic is present.

Sol what was it about the Dermacrine that impressed you? Have you ever used any run of the mill DHEA (like I'm using) and did you find it to have positive effect?

My goals with the dhea are to prevent some of the joint "drying" through mild estrogenic conversion. Also to prevent loss of libido toward the end of the cycle, again in hopes that DHEA will prevent eradication of estrogen.
 
celc5

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it's bigt tried and true. btw i see you have added powerful to your pct-nice choice. it's good to see you logging again, good luck.:clap2:
Hey T, can you remind us what dosage you used for a frontloading furaz and for how long you ran the frontload?

I decided to add powerful because I liked how it improved sleep quality and feeling well rested in the morning. Also, I don't see any benefit from any of the test boosters that I've tried so I'm done wasting my money on them.
 
thebigt

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Hey T, can you remind us what dosage you used for a frontloading furaz and for how long you ran the frontload?

I decided to add powerful because I liked how it improved sleep quality and feeling well rested in the morning. Also, I don't see any benefit from any of the test boosters that I've tried so I'm done wasting my money on them.
5 caps, for my weight at the time 5-6 was what everyone was recommending. after a week i was suffering from deydration, so went down to 3 and stayed there. i think i went through 2.5-3 bottles. btw just for shiits and giggles try 2 powerful pre-workout. i am on 3rd bottle, going to try the re-worked igf-2 soon to see how they compare.
 
celc5

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Day 2

Early Effects

I'm a slow mover typically in the gym. But today, rest between sets was cut in half for a heavy back workout. I pretty much added weight, maybe 30 seconds rest, and blasted through the next set!

I had some sporadic spells of lethargy throughout the day with some unusual yawning fits. I felt very tired in the gym but still had the drive to lift for 2 or 3 hours if I had the time. I've read a handfull of comments regarding early onset lethargy with furaz. Not sure if I buy into that, so I guess that will be a topic of interest.

I'm also noting some random libido bursts and increased appetite. No negative effects other than lethargy.
 
celc5

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Day 3

Day 3 was an off day. My work schedule is absolute murder right now so the off day was a welcome hiatus.

Libido is up and down. But, when it's up, it's extremely aggressive. It feels the same way as when I take a libido enhancer product after about 7 or 10 days. Luckily, my girl is pretty fiesty so it's a welcome affect :whip:

Appetite is outragous. I suspect that I'm seeing some mild early affects from the mild dosed epithio and from the aggressively dosed orastan, including both libido and appetite.

Considering how appetite is affecting my diet and how work schedule may cut into cardio time availability, goals are shifting toward a lean bulk rather than recomp. I'll adjust accordingly after skinfolds this weekend.

Irritability is a mild issue. I didn't have that affect until about 2 or 3 weeks with Halo and Phera. I'll just have to man up and keep my mouth shut to stay out of trouble :lol:
 
celc5

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Day 4

Chest and tris workout tonight. Endurance was great despite some major lethargy throughout the day at work. Rest time between sets was non existant and my workout partner was pissed because I wanted to move so fast.

Libido is crazy and sexual performance is enhanced. Tonight was probably in the top 5 lays I've had all year :head:

Muscles look very full after only 4 days. Vascularity is up and a very mild whole body pump is creeping into the picture.

I have a mild upset stomach, which I tend to get with methyls from about day 5 through 10. I plan to stay cool and expect it to pass within a few days.
 
thebigt

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Day 4

Chest and tris workout tonight. Endurance was great despite some major lethargy throughout the day at work. Rest time between sets was non existant and my workout partner was pissed because I wanted to move so fast.

Libido is crazy and sexual performance is enhanced. Tonight was probably in the top 5 lays I've had all year :head:

Muscles look very full after only 4 days. Vascularity is up and a very mild whole body pump is creeping into the picture.

I have a mild upset stomach, which I tend to get with methyls from about day 5 through 10. I plan to stay cool and expect it to pass within a few days.
that's good results for just 4 days. has the thirst thing hit yet?
 
NasD

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Better late than never. I was considering running Furaz with H-Drol but wanna follow this to help me decide.
 
thebigt

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Better late than never. I was considering running Furaz with H-Drol but wanna follow this to help me decide.
it depends on goals. imo, hdrol is better to run with furazadrol on a recomp/cut, havoc/epi is better for mass/bulk.
 
NasD

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Thx bigT. Cut/Recomp is definitely what I need right now. This is my 3rd wk back in the gym after cervical disc fusion surgery...afraid I added to the skinfolds in my down time. :sad:
 
celc5

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that's good results for just 4 days. has the thirst thing hit yet?
Ha Ha, you beat me to it! That was gonna be my topic for day 5 :D I'm drinking about 1.5 gallons per day without any problem at all. I've noticed I've been waking up thirsty in the middle of the night too.

Thx bigT. Cut/Recomp is definitely what I need right now. This is my 3rd wk back in the gym after cervical disc fusion surgery...afraid I added to the skinfolds in my down time. :sad:
I agree with BigT. Halo is a great recomp agent.

On a side note, 3 weeks post op cervical fusion is not an intelligent time to be planning a cycle my friend. Be patient.
 
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the dehydration is what caused me to reduce dose. i think furazadrol has a diuretic effect. it dried me out and cut me up better than anything ive tried, better even than mmv2 which i really like. when i am recovered i plan on doing a furazadrol/mmv2/11oxo cycle. better start saving, going to be an expensive cycle.
 
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Oh no, sorry. The surgery was in March. This is my 3rd week back in the gym. I was only recently cleared to start back working out by my doc.
 
celc5

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Oh no, sorry. The surgery was in March. This is my 3rd week back in the gym. I was only recently cleared to start back working out by my doc.
Resume the planning bro :head:

Just a side note, try looking into HST training. The light weeks really prepare your joints for heavier loads down the road. It really gave me the opportunity to take a good hard look at my form, time under tension, full deep range of motion, etc when I hurt my back last fall. I use 6-8 weeks of HST for my pct routines and it makes pct a breeze!
 
NasD

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Damn celc, you a mindreader too!?! I've actually been reading the hst thread over at strengthmill and trying to figure out how to get started. It should do well for helping me get some strength back after some muscle atrophy caused by the pinched nerve.
 
celc5

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NasD, here are some HST pdf files. One is a summary and one is a compilation from the HST FAQ subforum. This is everything you'll need to get started.

http://users.telenet.be/aaitee/HST Faq_book.pdf
Hypertrophy-research.com

Day 5

Dosing all week remains at 300 Furaz/30 Havoc

Just as TheBigT suggested, the Furaz is making me thirsty as a mother. I'm drinking and pissing constantly.

I also feel like I'm seeing some mild effects from Havoc in terms of appetite, muscle fullness, and recovery between sets.

I'm not sure which of the two is responsible for the random bursts in libido.

I'm having some mild signs of muscle cramping in the hams today during a marathon leg workout. Nothing that would make me stop in the middle of a set, but enough to tell me it's time to start dosing the taurine really soon.

Sleep was erratic last night. I had some weird heart palpitations throughout the night even though I'm flat out exhausted from a rigorous work week. It's possible that the sleep issue is due to work stress and might have nothing to do with the cycle. I have an event free weekend so there's no reason to not sleep like a champ this weekend.

I suspect that I've gained 2-3 pounds this week. But I won't weigh in until Sunday morning when I do my skinfolds.
 
thebigt

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too bad you are having sleep issues, i found that taking 1 furazadrol before bed on empty stomach had good effect. btw you mentioned powerful, you might try that before bed.
 
celc5

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T, I agree with the Powefull before bed. It's really helped me feel rested in the morning due to improved sleep quality. That's the main reason I added it to my post cycle plan.

Day 6

I added in a quick extra session today because this cycle has me feeling really motivated :head: I did some obscure arm work followed by 3 or 4 tri-sets for chest. I felt good throughout the workout with nothing spectacular to note other than enhanced recovery between sets. Pump was typical and maybe just slightly enhanced.

I slept 12 hours straight last night after the crazy work week and feel pretty good. I'm looking forward to the day 10+ time period where my workouts tend to be the most productive while I'm on cycle.

Also of note, the stomach issues passed within a few hours the other day. Maybe I dodged the typical "methyl flu" this time around?
 
celc5

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Day 7

Post #2 is updated with weekly summary to include pros and cons thus far.

Stats are also updated.

In 7 days, I gained a little less than 1 pound lean mass and lost around 1/2 pound fat.

I am neither thrilled nor disatisfied with the recomp affect. I don't think it's fair to make a judgement this early in the cycle.
 
thebigt

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Day 7

Post #2 is updated with weekly summary to include pros and cons thus far.

Stats are also updated.

In 7 days, I gained a little less than 1 pound lean mass and lost around 1/2 pound fat.

I am neither thrilled nor disatisfied with the recomp affect. I don't think it's fair to make a judgement this early in the cycle.
1 week in, give it time my friend.
 
celc5

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1 week in, give it time my friend.
Ya I agree. I think the +5 lean mass and -5 fat is still a very realistic recomp goal for this cycle. Although, with the appetite increase, maybe +5 and -2 or 3 is more reasonable.

Aside from the lethargy, I like the "feel" of this cycle so far in terms of workout motivation. I don't think it's placebo effect either because I catch myself doing extra sets and piling on extra weights almost unconsciously in the gym :head:
 
thebigt

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Ya I agree. I think the +5 lean mass and -5 fat is still a very realistic recomp goal for this cycle. Although, with the appetite increase, maybe +5 and -2 or 3 is more reasonable.

Aside from the lethargy, I like the "feel" of this cycle so far in terms of workout motivation. I don't think it's placebo effect either because I catch myself doing extra sets and piling on extra weights almost unconsciously in the gym :head:
i would not put expectations on this, just yet. go with the flow for another week and get the feel for it. you might be surprised how this turns out.
 
celc5

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Day 8

30mg Havoc
300mg Furaz (last day at 300. 200 starting tomorrow)

Real nice shoulders workout today. I matched an old PR with 15 strict reps for 120 pound DB shrugs at the end of my routine. Pump was slightly above normal and drive was enhanced just as it was all last week.

I'm pleased that I've had no shedding and no acne with this cycle so far.
 
thebigt

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Day 8

30mg Havoc
300mg Furaz (last day at 300. 200 starting tomorrow)

Real nice shoulders workout today. I matched an old PR with 15 strict reps for 120 pound DB shrugs at the end of my routine. Pump was slightly above normal and drive was enhanced just as it was all last week.

I'm pleased that I've had no shedding and no acne with this cycle so far.
nice. btw this is off topic, but i been looking at reviews for dark knight. it looks like heath ledger might be nominated for an oscar for his role as THE JOKER. the clips on dark knight look wild.
 

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