I did havoc/epistane

[Rugger]

I am a few days into PCT after 3 weeks of havoc/epistane. First two weeks were havoc and then last week was epistane.

I gained 20 pounds with no visible body fat increase. I'm expecting that some of my gain was glycogen because I was very low carb before coming on. Strength gain was massive.

Epistane is more potent, or maybe dirtier than havoc. I experienced zero sides with Havoc aside from occasional neck cramps. With epistane I got lethargy and cramps everywhere.

I have nolva but am not using it. I think I should be alright. I am taking lean extreme, PCS, and activate extreme. Although I haven't changed my water intake, I am experiencing the mysterious golden piss that many see after coming off cycle. I might be pissing away muscle, who knows.

My dosing was right around 60mg a day. Sometimes more, occasionally less. I only used 1 scoop of cycle support a day and didn't use anything else during cycle. Only thing I would do differently next time is pay closer attention to my ligaments and maybe take a lig/joint supplement. My shoulders felt like falling off after some chest or shoulder days.

Next time, and there will be a next time, I'm going to just stick with Havoc.

Dose: majority pre workout. Usually 4 pre, 2 in the AM
Diet: 3800 daily calories, 350 protein, 300 carbs, 130-150 fats
Training: 10-12 reps, 3 sets per exercise.. 3 day split back/chest/shoulders-traps-legs. Usually 4-5 exercises per group.
Pics: nope, sorry.

 

[Botch]

What's the deal with those ridiculous stats dude? ...I figure that has gotta be a joke...

 

[Rugger]

Oh and I forgot, my left nut shrank, and I didn't have much of the random occurrence of being horny that I normally do. I was able to get it up when I actually needed to though, with no problems.

A few days into pct my nuts are fine and i pop boners like you pop pills.

What's the deal with those ridiculous stats dude? ...I figure that has gotta be a joke...

Yes, I am actually 5'10 210ish after this cycle.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

What's the deal with those ridiculous stats dude? ...I figure that has gotta be a joke...

lol

The OP realizes Havoc = Epistane?

20 lbs in 3 weeks? Come on dude... what was your diet like? 9k calories?

 

[Rugger]

lol

The OP realizes Havoc = Epistane?

20 lbs in 3 weeks? Come on dude... what was your diet like? 9k calories?

Havoc and epistane are two separate products that share a common compound. My diet was about 3800 daily calories, 350 protein, 300 carbs, 130-150 fats. I didn't hesitate to eat anything else I wanted. I didn't have any alcohol.

 

[Botch]

A few days into pct my nuts are fine and i pop boners like you pop pills.

Damn dude, that's like 40 boners a day. I think I would be sick of it after the first 12 boners of the day with breakfast.:rofl:

 

[Jayhawkk]

My diet was about 3800 daily calories, 350 protein, 300 carbs, 130-150 fats

I am a few days into PCT after 3 weeks of havoc/epistane. First two weeks were havoc and then last week was epistane.

I gained 20 pounds with no visible body fat increase. I'm expecting that some of my gain was glycogen because I was very low carb before coming on. Strength gain was massive.

That kind of impossible change and you would be the type of person to be very detailed in your reporting because your training and diet would have to be straight and no pics with 20 pounds of fat free weight in three weeks?

 

[Usf97j4x4]

That kind of impossible change and you would be the type of person to be very detailed in your reporting because your training and diet would have to be straight and no pics with 20 pounds of fat free weight in three weeks?

You wouldnt gain 20 lbs of muscle in 3 weeks on 1000 mg/test weekly lol

Whatever though, if for some reason you did, good for you.

 

[ReaperX]

20lbs in 3 weeks with little fat gain ? pics ?

 

[MentalTwitch]

hmmmmm, also thinking ....20?
Maybe you miss read the scale or yea you did pick up more water/fat than you though. With that many carbs you gotta be holding water.

Either that or Epi/Havoc has some sic and twisted synergistic effect that Rugger just discovered.(yea i know they are the same thing)
When did you get you Epi? Wasnt that found to be tainted with Tren earlier in the year?

 

[Rugger]

No, I didn't misread the scale. I've been using the same scale at the same time of day for the last 8 months.

I said that I'm assuming that I did gain glycogen/water weight, as I originally mentioned, because I was coming straight off a very low carb diet. Durr. Another thing that may have contributed, was that in January I weighed around 215, I cut down to 183ish, then got to 190 then did this cycle. So muscle memory might have had something to do with it although I am leaner at 210 then I was at 215.

I didn't take pics or create this thread to brag by any means, just sharing experience. I don't really care if people believe me.

That kind of impossible change and you would be the type of person to be very detailed in your reporting because your training and diet would have to be straight and no pics with 20 pounds of fat free weight in three weeks?

Who's to say my diet and training weren't spot on?

 

[Jayhawkk]

The point of making threads like these is to give users/readers information for which they can use as a way to gain knowledge. If you didn't create this to brag then for what purpose was it created? You have no real information in here other than you took havoc/epi and gained 20 pounds lean weight and had your balls shrink.

No Diet
No Training
No dose times or amounts in specific
No Previous/Current pics

 

[Rugger]

The point of making threads like these is to give users/readers information for which they can use as a way to gain knowledge. If you didn't create this to brag then for what purpose was it created? You have no real information in here other than you took havoc/epi and gained 20 pounds lean weight and had your balls shrink.

No Diet
No Training
No dose times or amounts in specific
No Previous/Current pics

There, I updated my original post for you.

 

[GMG760]

Are you sure that the difference between the Havoc/Epistane wasn't simply the difference between week 2 and 3 of the cycle? I know that Epistane hits the body fairly quickly (compared to compounds like Halodrol), but perhaps this is what you felt?

 

[Rugger]

Are you sure that the difference between the Havoc/Epistane wasn't simply the difference between week 2 and 3 of the cycle? I know that Epistane hits the body fairly quickly (compared to compounds like Halodrol), but perhaps this is what you felt?

Could be, but I felt the different effects of the epistane right after the first dose of it.

 

[LilPsychotic]

I am a few days into PCT after 3 weeks of havoc/epistane. First two weeks were havoc and then last week was epistane.

I gained 20 pounds with no visible body fat increase. I'm expecting that some of my gain was glycogen because I was very low carb before coming on. Strength gain was massive.

Epistane is more potent, or maybe dirtier than havoc. I experienced zero sides with Havoc aside from occasional neck cramps. With epistane I got lethargy and cramps everywhere.

I have nolva but am not using it. I think I should be alright. I am taking lean extreme, PCS, and activate extreme. Although I haven't changed my water intake, I am experiencing the mysterious golden piss that many see after coming off cycle. I might be pissing away muscle, who knows.

My dosing was right around 60mg a day. Sometimes more, occasionally less. I only used 1 scoop of cycle support a day and didn't use anything else during cycle. Only thing I would do differently next time is pay closer attention to my ligaments and maybe take a lig/joint supplement. My shoulders felt like falling off after some chest or shoulder days.

Next time, and there will be a next time, I'm going to just stick with Havoc.

Dose: majority pre workout. Usually 4 pre, 2 in the AM
Diet: 3800 daily calories, 350 protein, 300 carbs, 130-150 fats
Training: 10-12 reps, 3 sets per exercise.. 3 day split back/chest/shoulders-traps-legs. Usually 4-5 exercises per group.
Pics: nope, sorry.

Yeah, I got serious lethargy after about 3 weeks into that epistane, felt fine until 3 week point. I didn't gain 20 lbs though, damn you must respond well to that particular compound. It dried out my joints as well, it took about 3 months for me to be able to bench without pain. Sounds like you had a good run, watch for rebound gyno, happened to me about two months post cycle. Cheers for a good run.

 

[Rugger]

Yeah, I got serious lethargy after about 3 weeks into that epistane, felt fine until 3 week point. I didn't gain 20 lbs though, damn you must respond well to that particular compound. It dried out my joints as well, it took about 3 months for me to be able to bench without pain. Sounds like you had a good run, watch for rebound gyno, happened to me about two months post cycle. Cheers for a good run.

Interesting that you got gyno from epistane, and rebound gyno at that. I'll definitely keep an eye out. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[10195079]

watch for rebound gyno, happened to me about two months post cycle.

I'm about to end an EPI 6 weeker, can you tell me what you used for PCT?

 

[LilPsychotic]

I'm about to end an EPI 6 weeker, can you tell me what you used for PCT?

Nolva+Lean extreme+cycle support

 

[10195079]

Nolva+Lean extreme+cycle support

Any chance you did some blood work after PCT?

 

[MentalTwitch]

I'm about to end an EPI 6 weeker, can you tell me what you used for PCT?

youre kidding right?
If you cant line up a PCT prior to your cycle, why do you wanna see blood work?
Blood work for the Epi is out there i believe from when it first came out, dont hold me to it.

 

[Rugger]

Well I'm already looking less swole. sigh.

 

[10195079]

youre kidding right?
If you cant line up a PCT prior to your cycle, why do you wanna see blood work?
Blood work for the Epi is out there i believe from when it first came out, dont hold me to it.

I thought that one might confuse someone.

I've got my PCT lined up already. I'm looking for reasons not to use my nolva, but after these recent posts i've been convinced otherwise.

 

[10195079]

Any thoughts about using Jungle Warfare in combination with Nolva for PCT? From my experience, Jungle Warfare was an effective anti esterogen, but these effects weren't noticeable until the 3rd week.

 

[LilPsychotic]

Any chance you did some blood work after PCT?

A month out from pct everything was perfect.

 

[Rugger]

Update:

Hit the gym today for the first time in about 2.5 weeks. (No, I didn't get to the for much of my last week on cycle) I can thank finals and a **** storm of other crap for that.

Anyways, Strength was down a bit, but to be expected. Wasn't down nearly as much as I thought it would have been. To give you an example, at the height of cycle I could do 3x10 of a particular exercise. Today I could only do 2x10 and then 1x7. Not too shabby. Keep in mind I have not and will not add creatine as some users do.

Scale put me at exactly what I ended up at. I was pleasantly surprised with that especially because I cut back down to maintenance calories immediately after the dosing stopped.

A day or so after I created this thread my nips got a bit puffy. I promptly started dosing 20mg nolva each morning. Took care of the issue very quickly.

Now I get to decide what I'll be using next. I'm thinking some soopa soop.

 

[mindgame]

pics please!!

 

[Rugger]

 

[mindgame]

pic no working

 

[Rugger]

Update: My weight leveled off at about 201 at the end of pct, so that's 11 pounds kept out of the 20 gained. No rebound gyno as of yet (knocks on woods)