- 01-08-2008, 10:23 AM
I originally planned this as a pulse cycle because 1) never did a SERM before; 2) a good cycle is a lot of fun and wouldnít mind a good reason to string it out longer. Thatís how it started but Iíve got the post cycle therapy now, tamoxifen and Torem. I havenít decided which to use. Past experience is mostly with the older PHís like 1AD. I did a sdrol/epi cycle last September but then got a sinus infection which screwed things up. Iíve been seriously (obsessively?) lifting for 33 yrs.
Iíve tried Epi before and I want to try Phera. I combined the two because Epi is a class 1 and Phera is a class 2. Phera is wet and Epi is dry, I donít really want a lot of extra water weight. From what I understand, Phera is highly androgenic, EPIís ratio is 90/1200. Even though they are both methyls, Epi is supposed to be relatively mild and they may complement each other.
Goals by the end of post cycle therapy.
Weight -------Start -----Approx. Goal -Comment
Body weight--186 ------195
Bench --------260x7---315x8 --- 315x3 is normal for me. Iíve done 395 My bench dropped the week before Christmas so my starting weight is below normal for me.
V squat ------ 685x6 --700x8 - A shoulder injury makes normal squats near impossible.
Dead lift ----- 505x2 --525x6 - I did 525x2 last May w/o anything hormonal.
Arms ---------17 ------17.5
Chest -------- 46.5 ---- 48
Waist -------- 36 -------36 - Iím not too worried about gaining; I just may have to plan a cutting cycle.
Legs ----------25.5 --- 26.5
First 10 days: started 12/26 as a pulse 30mg @of phera and epi on lifting days, 4 days
Final 46 days (6.5 wks): on lifting days same does as the pulse was, on other days 15 phera/10 epi.
Day time -------- Amount
acetyl-carnitine --- 1gm-
Mass FX-------------3 to 4 caps -
Na Rala ----------- .400mg -Great stuff, wish it wasnít so expensive
bcaa ---------------- 50 gms-
cissus -------------- Up to 6 gms-As needed depending on how I feel
creatine ------------ 6 gms-
Long Jack ---------- Up to 1.0 gm-As needed depending on how I feel
omega -3 ---------- 6 gms-
nettle -------------- 500 mgs-
whey--------------- 120 gms -
Norvasc for hbp --- 10 mgs-I did 6 weeks of hawthorne berry, celery seed extract and coq10 and my BP was still higher than it should be (didnít change at all) so I went to my family doc for a script.
Night -Iím a major insomniac, Iíll do almost anything for a good nightís sleep.
Arginine Pyroglutamate/lysine-3 gms/1.5 gms
Gaba Ė 6 to 12 gms
Melatonin - 2 gms
Lunesta - 3 gms
post cycle therapy-
Tamoxifen or Torem Iíve got both, but havenít decided
Retain2 As directed
Hyperdrol x2 As directed
Total cals ------------------------- Fat;Carbs;Protein
3000 (about 1000 over maintenance) 91g;234g;313g
Appetite-Way up, eating like a pig most of the time.
Libido -Way up
Work outs-Great, focused, back up to pre-slump weights, no back pumps
Sleep-A little disturbed, but thatís not unusual for me.
Shedding-Iíve not noticed any, but maybe thatís because Iím half-way there as it is.
Mood-I feel great most of the time, but probably a little less patient.
Current Stats as of 01/08
Body weight-192 -------- +6lbs, Iím guessing 1 or 2 lbs of muscle.
Bench ----- 305x4 -------- About +35 lbs
V squat --- 685x8--------- +2 reps
Dead lift--- Too soon to tell, I only do them every other week
Arms------ 17 1/8--------- +1/8
Chest----- 46.5 ----------- 0
Waist----- 36 3/8 -------- +3/8
I have a detailed log attached. Lifts are pretty much back to what they were a month ago. So far this feels like one of my better cycles, so much nicer than my short sdrol/epi, so much more promising than Halodrol was. If I do sdrol again it will be as a pulse.
I can give some more details of my training, but I figured not risk info overload at this point.
Any advise is appreciated.
BTW - this is just a role play, I would never really do such a thing.
- 01-08-2008, 09:54 PM
End of day 13. Just a half hr of cardio; not my favorite thing to do but a necessity. Dose was 15mg Phera at 5:00am and 10mg Epi at 3:30 pm. Felt good, cardio was good.
Calories: Total 2707; fat 76g; carbs 174g; protein 338g (I'm using fitday)
Back was great yesterday, overall not a lot stronger, but a good work out: strong and focused. The details are in the file attached. Iíll do the rest of the details in my post from now on; I just got a late start. Anyway, for example, I did bent over rows with 130 lb dumbbells for sets of 12, 10, and 10 which is 5 lbs more than I usually do.
Iím looking forward to chest tomorrow. I think chest and back are my 2 favorite workouts. I did 305x3 last week, hoping for 310x4 or 5 tomorrow. 5 would put me back to my high of this summer and fall with 6 weeks still to go. Tomorrow my doses will be 15 phera around 6:00am and 12:00pm and the 30 mg of epi at the end of my workout around 6:00-6:30pm.
- 01-09-2008, 07:36 PM
dose 30 phera, 30 epi
weight 191 -1lb I haven't eaten as much as I should the last couple days, plus I didn't sleep well last nite, 5hrs again, second Wednesday in a row, other days are fine. My first thought are the phera and epi doses but I only took 15 mg Phera and 10 of epi yesterday.
Anyway, lifts were still good, today was chest.
Bench +5 lbs
Bench: 230x12, 270x8, 2x310x5, 270x6 (it was a 40 lb bar so the weights are a little goofy). That's +5 lbs over all but the last set. Inclines, flies and pullovers were about the same (a little better) but the pace today was better (50 mins vs 57 mins last week) .
Calories yesterday was:
Total 4000; fat 140; carbs 330; protein 362
Weight Today: 194 +8lb from start (4 from yesterday)
Didn't sleep well again last nite, 5hrs again. This happens to me even when Iím not cycling, Iíll probably crash tonite. Feel OK though, maybe the arginine/lysine and extra meltonin helped.
Lifts were good, + about 45lbs on squat, up a little on leg curls. Iím not sure if my measurements changed but Iím starting to see some development in shoulders, upper chest and lower legs.
Leg raises 15x70;13x90;8x100
Leg curls 100x12;110x10;110x8 +5 lb
V squat 520x15;610x12;685x9;735x5 +~45lb previous week I my last set was 685x6
On my squats and press I go as low as the machine allows.
Time = 85 min (goal was 75 min)
All and all, I feel really good.
I’ll run down the list of possibilities, let me know if I leave any out:
1) Lethargy – None, nada, energy level is good to high.
2) Painful pumps – None, squats were fine, dead lifts are scheduled for Monday. One of the reasons I’m stacking Phera with Epi is Phera is wet, Epi is dry.
3) Libido – Up
4) Appetite – Way up
5) Aggression – Very slightly up, a little less patient.
6) Bulk – Up, may need to do something like DCP/Leviathan afterwards.
7) Sleep – A little worse than usual but I'm an insomniac. I try to take the Phera early because it’s androgenic; another complement to Epi.
8) Focus – Great for lifting, that and eating is all I want to do. Maybe an issue for everything else, though (work, school, family, church, etc).
9) Shedding – Not generally an issue for me, I’m pretty sparse up top anyway, wouldn’t be much of a loss.
10) Acne – None
11) BP – hard to say. Those electric gizmos don’t work for me. When my doctor takes it with the pump its 30-40 pts lower (inverse white coat syndrome), been that way for a decade. It’s no worse, though.
It’s early yet, I’ve read where Phera doesn’t even start to kick in for the first couple weeks.
Let me know if I can answer anything else.
Finally, a good nightís sleep. Feeling good, strong, pumped.
So far, this is the best cycle I can remember, at least for awhile. Much nicer than the short epi/sdol cycle I did did last summer. I wonít do it straight again, too much lethargy. I've seen some logs where phera takes 2-3 weeks to kick in, if mostly what I'm feeling is the epi, then things should look good for next week.
Day off from the gym
Weight: 195.5 +9.5
Dose: 15mg phera, 10mg epi
Total cals: 2464; 71g/211g/253g
Average cals: 3128; 100g/248g/317g
Days 17 and 18
Weight: 194.5 +8.5 from start (-1 from yesterday)
Strength: Added 1 rep to most of my sets.
Food: 3225 cals; fat: 71g; carbs: 337g; protein: 308g
Dose 30mg phera; 30 epi
Shoulders and arms (see below for details). My goal was to increase the reps by 1 on all my sets. I was able to do that for everything except close grips. They didnít change much, maybe Iím not recovered enough from my bench on day 14. I wanted to get my reps up before I start increasing weight, next week Iíll increase the successful sets by 5lbs.
Weight: 194.0 +8.0 from start (-.5 from yesterday)
Just a cardio day. 35 mins of bike
Food: cals: 3753; fat: 118g; carbs: 371g; protein: 298g
Dose: 22.5mg phera (1.5 caps); 20 epi
Shoulders and arms wo:
Close grips 12x200;10x210;7x210
Push downs: 110x13;120x10;120x8
Standing st. bar curls: 85x14;105x11;125x9
Pr curls: 80x11;80x10;80x8
Incline DB curls 25x9;x9
Seated smith press: 135x13;165x11;165x9;165x8;135x 10
Uprite rows: 85x10;x10
Day 19 (yesterday 1/14)
Weight: 197.5 +11.5 from start
Strength: On my Deadlift I Added 2 reps to my 1st set of 505.
Food: 3701 cals; fat: 109g; carbs: 389g; protein: 317g
Dose 30mg phera; 30 epi
Feel pretty good today (day 20 that is). Funny thing about deads, instead of feeling tired and stiff, I usually feel kinda bouncy the next day. Maybe gravity feels lighter after pulling a ton of weight the day before, or maybe there’s something to the GH theory.
Back (see below for details). My goal was to increase the reps on my heaviest set by 2. I alternate each week between a regular back day with a day of deadlifts with about 8 additional sets of some other back movement. I respond better to sets of 4 to 5 so I wanted to increase my reps here, too. Next time (2 weeks) I’ll increase 5 lbs for a goal of 2 sets of 510x4. When I start getting this heavy I have tendency to psych myself out, I’ve been to the ER twice and I don’t want to go there anymore. That’s another reason I like to keep the reps high.
Deadlift 345x10, 410x8, 475x6, 505x4, 505x2, 475x4 +2 at my first set of 505
Bent over BB rows 90x8x3.
Would have liked to have done 4 more sets of something, but I got out of work late.
I alternate weeks with something like this (from 2 weeks ago)
Assisted Pull-ups (bw-10)x13;x10;x8
Assisted Pull-ups close grip (bw-10)x9;x8
Cable rows 240x12; 270x10; 290x8
DB Rows 12x130; 2X10x130. +5lbs
T-Bar Rows 105x10;x8
Trap Pulls 365x12;415x6;365x10
Good morning (machine) 190x15x3
Time = 75 min
Last edited by DBinMD; 01-15-2008 at 08:08 AM. Reason: correction
Day 20 (yesterday, no internet access last nite)
Weight: 196.5 -1 from day 19 +10.5 from start
Just cardio: boring, but I canít help it. I really wanted to hit the weights, but Iíve learned the hard way I just canít do it that way.
Food (from previous day): 3701 cals; fat: 109g; carbs: 389g; protein: 317g
Averages since start of cycle (cals/fat/carbs/protein).
average 3238.8 cals/99.75g/274.1g/317.25g
Dose 30mg phera; 30 epi
Two more notes about day 19, I entered the wrong food values, but the values were < 6% different. Also, no back pumps. Looks like I'll get thru this without any serious ones.
I did a "spot" check on a couple measurements. Neck 17.25 +.75", cool. Neck size wasn't included in my original goals, but it might be nice to have an 18" neck. Arms I'm not sure how to interpret. Cold, right after waking up, flexed 17 3/16. Wait a couple hours and they're 17.5. Arms up 3 to 8 16ths from day 1 depending on how you look at it. Day 21 (today) will be chest. Hopefully, my internet connection will be back tonight. Comcast said "soon" but I think they mean "soon" in the biblical sense of the word.
No change in the side effects that I posted on day 16.
Itís been moving around. Right now it is:
Pheri 15mg at 6:00 am and 12:00pm (30 mg total).
Epi.. 20mg at 5:00 pm (right before wo) and 10mg post wo (6:00-6:30pm) (30 mg total).
In the beginning I was doing it more like a pulse 30 mg phera about 1 hr before wo and 30 mg Epi right after. Starting on day 10 (when I chickened out and stopped pulsing) on non-resistance training days (3) I was doing 1 pheri in the morning and 1 Epi in the afternoon. Yesterday (day 20) I upped the doses on my off days to be the same as my on (30mg each).
This is based on the assumption that Pheri is highly androgenic (200:1200 ?) and Epi is highly anabolic (90:1200 ?). My main problem is my insomnia. I need to limit the ergo/androgenic stuff to early in the day. So you don't necessarily have to follow my lead. Also, doing the more androgenic before wo is one of the things Dr. D. advised in his pulsing thread, it kinda makes sense though.
Weight: 198.5 +12.0 from start
Strength: Added +5 lbs to my inclines and flies.
Food: 4081 cals; fat: 152g; carbs: 374g; protein: 320g
Dose 30mg phera; 30mg epi
Chest: Goal was to add 1 rep to my flat bench and 5lbs to my inclines and flies. Didn't do that with my heaviest flat bench sets, the ones I really wanted. Maybe it's too soon, I can't remember the last time I did 6 at 310. Inclines and flies went well, + 5lbs on each set. Success was mixed.
Also felt some light cramping and lower back tightness (nothing uncomfortable). May have to invest in some taurine and maybe lower the creatine.
Other side effects (high libido, high energy) weren't as noticeable today. We'll see how things go, I might up the dose a little. Since they both may be class I's I wouldn't mind throwing in a little class 2 but I don't know what that would be. I have some original 1-AD around, but I understand it may be too androgenic to mix with phera (any suggestions?).
Weight: 197.0 +11.0 from start
Strength: Legs, exceeded my goals of a couple reps on the V squat.
Food: 2759 cals; fat: 87g; carbs: 212g; protein: 295g
Dose 45mg phera; 30mg epi
I'm not sure how I lost 1.5 lbs after eating 4000 cals yesterday*. My goal was to increase my reps by 2 on the V squat, I made that goal (actually 3 reps on my heaviest set) but I was stronger than I expected on the raises and curls, I increased them by about 2 also. I panicked a little this morning and did an extra phera; I'm going back to 30 mg tomorrow.
*I canít tell my wife about losing weight, she gains weight on a fraction of what I eat, and of course she wants to lose it. Our family doctor thinks weíre a hoot, one of us is always trying to gain, the other trying to lose.
Leg raises 15x70;14x90;10x100
Leg curls 95x15;120x6;105x9
V squat 520x15;610x12;690x10;735x8 (medium stance)
Bobby: Gee, thanks. I appreciate the complement.
Weight: 199.0 +13.0 from start
Day off: Nothing much else to report. Except one thing I forgot about yesterday. I got some significant, though manageable, back pumps squating. I'll have to look into some taurine I guess.
Food: 3154 cals; fat: 102g; carbs: 271g; protein: 299g
Dose: 30mg phera; 30mg epi
Pheri 15mg at 6:30 am and 12:30pm (30 mg total).
Epi.. 20mg at 4:00 pm and 10mg 6:00pm (30 mg total).
Weight: 198.0 +12.0 from start
Strength: Arms/shoulders, slightly exceeded my goal of +5 lbs on triís and shoulders, a little less than that on biís.
Food: 3032 cals; fat: 87g; carbs: 240g; protein: 327g
Dose 45mg phera; 30mg epi
Not a high energy day, but thatís not unusual for me on saturday. I took an extra phera at noon to compensate. Close grips and shoulder presses were great, strong and smooth.
Close grips 13x200;10x215;8x215
Dips: +35x13,+35x11,+35x10 (faster or more upright)
Push downs: 115x13;125x10;125x8
Standing st. bar curls: 55x15;85x14;105x12;125x10
Pr curls: 90x10;90x10;90x9
Incline DB curls 25x10;x9
Seated smith press: 135x14;165x12;165x11;165x9;165 x8
Uprite rows: 90x10;x10
Day 25 (about half way)
Weight: 201.0 +15.0 from start
Cardio, some light quad work
Dose 30mg phera; 30mg epi
Took some measurements today:
neck 17 6/8 +1.25 from start;
arms 17 3/8 +3/8;
chest 47.0 +.5;
waist 37 +1 ;
legs 26 6/8 +1.25;
Strength is up about 5-7% upper body and about 10% lower body.
I decided I need to put on less fat so Iím lowering my cals. Iím using a spreadsheet so itís pretty easy to keep track. I think Iíll just shoot for 10% less all the way around to start. Below is what I was averaging before.
3251 cals /101g fat/276 g carbs/316g protein
% 15/40/ 45
Also, I've noticed a little extra body fur.
Weight: 198. +12.0 from start
Strength: Back: I increased an average of 1 rep each set from last non-dead lift back wo 2 weeks ago. I went for more reps again instead of weight. Iím not ready to make the 10lb jump from the minimal assisted pull-ups to no assist. Iím near the top of the cable rows (290 lbs) and the dumbbells (130 lbs). Iím trying to speed up the pace to compensate but thatís the hardest thing for me.
I got out of work 3hrs late. I work with a great bunch but they donít know about the concept of finishing tomorrow. I was pissed and afraid I might crash before finishing so I took an original 1-AD.
Energy level is still better than average. No ephedra type products needed. Thatía one thing I like, other than the phera, my only stims are caffeine, aspirin, Na Rala, and Alcar.
No lower back pumps. I lost 3 lbs, maybe that helped.
Food: 2536 cals; fat: 73g; carbs: 184g; protein: 293g
Dose 30mg phera ; 30mg epi; 100mg 1-AD
Dose 7:00 15mg phera; 12:00 15mg phera; 5:00 20 epi; 6:30 Pre wo 10epi, 100 1-AD
Assisted Pull-ups (bw)x8; (bw-10)x11;x9
Assisted Pull-ups close grip (bw-10)x10;x9
Cable rows 240x13; 270x11; 290x8
DB Rows 130x14; 130x11; 130x11
Hamer overhead row 105x10;x8
Trap Pulls 365x13;415x8;365x10
Good morning (machine) 195x12x3
Day 26 (yesterday), part 2
I got up in the middle of the night and inhaled a box of granola bars so I need to update my food intake from yesterday.
Food: 3206 cals; fat: 104g; carbs: 280g; protein: 302g
Weight: 196.0 -2 from yesterday +10.0 from start
Cardio: 35 mins.
Food: 3240 cals; fat: 109g; carbs: 252g; protein: 322g
Dose: 37.5mg phera; 30mg epi
Felt pretty tired today. Hopefully, it was just the late workout from yesterday. Iím not too worried about the weight loss. It brought out more definition in my shoulders and upper chest. Tomorrow is my chest wo.
Are you going to go any higher on the Epi? 37.5 seems kinda the limit most go to. Hell i had great results (besides gyno) from 20mg per day.
Nice log big fella, im watching with interest!
So far the only sides that have been a problem is sleep disturbance (but almost everything does this to me), and libido was too high. Both issues have settled down the last couple days.
Itís nice you respond to 20mg Epi (or even pheri), Iím envious. Except for a 2 week cycle of sdrol/epi (didnít like, wouldnít recommend it) I havenít done anything this strong since the mid-eighties. But my experiences with hdrol and 1-AD have been I need the higher doses, so Iím planning on that probability. Maybe Iím just too close to my genetic potential.
Today is chest day, the most important to me, so I may pull out all stops. Was it the epi or phera that gave you the gyno?
damn i meant to say 37.5mg of Phera! and yes i was on 20mg of phera. Epi will def be in the next cycle though which will hopefully start end of next month. I'm tossing ideas of what i can add into a 4-5 week Epi cycle. Possibly pulse the second ph.
Weight: 198. +12.0 from start
Strength: Chest. Ah, man. This was the most intense chest work out I can remember for a long time. My spotters made me work for every frikkiní millimeter. My last three sets were brutal. My goal on the flat bench was +1 rep for the last 4 sets. I did about half that. I missed the sixth rep by about an inch. But the intensity made up for it. I should have held back a rep on my previous set, but sometimes I just can't say no. I did a little better than +1 rep on all 4 incline bench sets. The rest of the wo I did the same as last week.
So my bench is up from about 310x3 for 2 sets to almost 310x6 and 310x5.
Inclines Iím up about 20lbs, and flies about 30lbs.
Next week's goal is 310x6x2. It might be doable. I've giving myself an extra day. Mondays are too tight time wise and I'm scheduled for deads then, so I'm going to do them Tuesday.
Food: 2656 cals; fat: 104g; carbs: 144g; protein: 293g
Dose 45mg phera ; 30mg epi
Bold print means an increase over last week (I'm not taking credit yet for my almost 6th rep):
Bench 235x12, 270x9, 310x5,5, 270x7
Incline smith 225x11, 245x7,235x8,225x8
Pull over machine 175x15
Flies machine 180x12x3
Time = ~60 mins, situps 90, calf raises
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