Hey everyone, need advice on a 1-AD/4-AD cycle
- 11-30-2006, 12:38 AM
Hey everyone, need advice on a 1-AD/4-AD cycle
Hey everyone, I have a few questions about my first cycle ever of PHs. Here are my following questions:
1. I'm 22 years old, 5'10", 170 pounds, about 11-12% BF. I am considering doing a cycle of 1-AD/4-AD because my 4-AD is expired and 1-AD expires Sept. 2007. I am considering doing a 4-week cycle starting mid-Dec and ending mid-January since that's during my winter break and I will have a lot of time to dedicate to diet and exercise. Do you think it's a good idea if I'm 22 to do this cycle, or should I still wait? The only reason I'm considering doing it now is because I don't want to waste the money I spent on these PHs, and because this may be the last time for awhile I can really dedicate a month to intense exercise and diet. If I were to do this cycle, how long should I make it, 4 or 5 weeks?
2. Is this the best stack for someone that wants lean gains with minimal side effects? I'm looking to gain 10-12 pounds in the 4-week period. Are the gains dry or wet?
3. For PCT, I was going to do 6-OXO and Nolva. Do you think Nolva and/or Clomid are needed? Also, if I were to take Nolva and/or Clomid, how much should I dose of Nolva over the 4-week period? And is there anything else I should take for PCT?
4. If I were to do the 1-AD/4-AD cycle, how much should I take the first, second, third, and fourth week? My 1-AD pills are 100 mg each, and 4-AD is 300 mg each.
5. If I go on with the cycle, I will be using these supplements: whey and dextrose for PWO shake, CEE, multivitamin, milk thistle and saw palmetto, milk protein isolate shake before bed, and possibly CytoGainer 1 or 1.5 servings a day to get extra calories in. Any other support supplements you can think of that I should take?
- 11-30-2006, 02:18 AM
You could still be growing until age 25. How many years since you stopped getting taller?
Estrogen caps the ends of bones over. The 4-AD raises testosterone and estrogen. 1-AD shuts down natural testosterone output (and there by estrogen output.)
1-AD was normally run for 5 weeks, but 4 is fine.
Toremifene is much better than Nolva. Rebounded Reloaded is better than 6-OXO, but 6-OXO will work. You need to taper on and off of 6-OXO. Recommend doing more reading in post cycle therapy section. PCT is very important.
You can go as high as 800mgs of 1-AD. Drink lots and lots of water. At 800 mgs it could start burning to pee. Spread 1-AD out over the day. Take 1-AD with a little fat.
The 4AD is too keep lethergy down and enough estrogen to keep HDL and white blood cells up. I used to 400 mgs transdermal 4AD, so I guessing, but I think you need 3 to 4 a day for about 900 to 1200 mgs a day.
11-30-2006, 12:17 PM
Hey, I stopped getting taller around the age of 19 I think.
When you say taper on and off of 6-OXO, does that mean lower the dosage each week?
Since this is my first cycle, I'm thinking of keeping the dosage at conservative levels and doing 300 mg 1-AD and 600 mg 4-AD. After two weeks, if I'm not seeing the results I like, I may bump it up to 500 mg 1-AD and 900 mg 4-AD. Does that sound like a good idea?
I think I'm going to go with Nolva for PCT because everyone says how good it is after a cycle. When dosing, should I do 100 mg week 1, 80 mg week 2, 40 mg week 3, and 20 mg week 4?
Also, I have a product by Omega Sports called Methyl Jacked. I've read up on methyl DHT last night, and it seems to be a hardening agent with improved concentration when training. I've read about the negatives (hair loss and possibly stress on liver due to methylation), but if I dose at 37.5 mg (each pill is 12.5 mg), do you think that's decent for someone my size (I'm not a big guy, only 5'10", 170 pounds at 11% BF), and is it smart to stack the Methyl Jacked with 1-AD/4-AD?
Thanks a lot for the help.
Originally Posted by Werewolf
11-30-2006, 01:06 PM
Nolva has been dethroned by Toremifene. They not even the same league. Do some reading.
I recommend for a minimum of 4 days between dose changes for 6-OXO. That allows HPTA axis to adjust.
AI(6-OXO) inverse to SERM (Nolva or Toremifene) dosing.
Running Serm inverse to ADT??
11-30-2006, 10:04 PM
But is Nolva good enough for this cycle, since it's relatively safe compared to many other anabolics on the market?
I've read some things that it's not good to take a SERM and an AI, so I'm considering just going with Nolva, and possibly Retain or Activate.
As for dosage of Nolva, I was going to change the dosage every 7 days, running it for 4 weeks.
Other than Nolva, what else should I run for this cycle?
Originally Posted by Werewolf
12-12-2006, 06:32 PM
Well, just to update, I decided on my PCT. It's Nolva, 6-OXO, and AI Cycle Support.
Now I have one more question. This is my first cycle ever. Do you think I should increase the current 300mg 1-AD/600mg 4-AD dosage, or keep it at that? I am starting my cycle in two or three days. Some people have told me that 300mg/600mg isn't enough, and that I should increase to like 500mg/900mg. I'm 5'10", 170 pounds, about 11% BF. What do you guys think?
12-21-2006, 09:08 PM
I'm thinking of upping the dosage tomorrow, but I don't know if I should increase both the 1-AD and 4-AD. As of now, I'm currently taking 300mg 1-AD and 600mg 4-AD. What do you guys think I should do, keep it at current levels, or increase the dosage?
12-26-2006, 08:03 PM
either way. dose it at 400mg 1ad : 900mg 4-adOriginally Posted by AM07
however long you can run that.
4-ad bloats but it is neccessary... 1-ad is dry. dont worry about it. just eat clean and the gains will be 99% clean since it is your first cycle.Originally Posted by AM07
6oxo is fine, get 2 bottles of it.Originally Posted by AM07
see above.Originally Posted by AM07
Food, 250g of protein from food. get up to 300-350grams with powdersOriginally Posted by AM07
Dandelion Root $3 a bottle to keep bloat down.
1-ad is the shiznit. have fun
12-28-2006, 12:10 AM
Hey man, thanks for the response. The thing is, now I'm considering just sticking to this current dosage of 300mg and 600mg because I want enough for another cycle later on, possibly 6 months from now. Since this is my first cycle, do you think I can still see good gains from 300 and 600mg of 1-AD and 4-AD, respectively?Originally Posted by CEDeoudes59
Also, when should I start seeing real good strength and mass gains, after the second week? I'm 13 or 14 days into my cycle, and my scale weight has gone up 10 pounds. Can I expect to gain anymore assuming good diet, or have my gains basically plateaud? Thanks.
12-28-2006, 12:23 AM
You'll have to up calories to continue to see gains - probably.
Althought maybe not - I didn't at only 10 lbs. gained - that seemed to happen around 15 lbs of gain for me.
Toremifene really is BETTER than Nolva (it's not about how bad of a steroid you are taking - but how much lighter Torem is on the liver compared to Nolva).
I have no clue on the doses of these orally - I took the transdermal versions of both.
Good luck (wish I still had some 1-T).
12-29-2006, 01:21 AM
Hey, I already have the Nolva, so I'm just going to use that along with Trione and Cycle Support for PCT.Originally Posted by jmh80
Do you think I should just keep the dosages where they're at, and possibly add 2 capsules of Methyl Jacked for the last 15 days of my cycle for added energy at the gym?
How is Toremifene lighter on the liver than Nolva?
12-30-2006, 12:10 AM
Torem just is. It's the gold standard of PCT supps per Dr. D (who says Nolva is actually considered carcinogenic).Originally Posted by AM07
It's more like Clomid on the liver - but without the emotional or visual sides that Clomid has.
As far as doses - I think I did the oral equivalent of 400 mg 1-T and like 800 to 1000 mg 4-AD (even though you have 1-AD).
That was for my first cycle. I gained quite a bit (but didn't do the diet during PCT right so I lost most of it - just remember to keep eating enough cals even if you gain some fat - don't get all concerned about too much fat gained like I did).
I'm not sure what to tell you on the dose. I'd say that this is your first cycle - so do it right and go with the higher dose.
And you might as well add the methyl jacked for help in the gym. Shouldn't be a problem.
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