9 day Superdrol cycle
- 05-11-2006, 07:32 PM
9 day Superdrol cycle
Last year I was on a 21-day superdrol cycle (10mg/day) and gained 12 lbs net after post cycle therapy. While my strength consistently went up during the 21 days, most of my mass/weight gains were in the first 9-10 days.
Since my goal is hypertrophy, now I'm thinking of trying a 9-day SD cycle followed by 1 week of post cycle therapy, 2 weeks off, then repeat twice.
Anyone have an thoughts about this? Do you think 3 of these 9 day cycles nets more LBM than one 27-day cycle?
I also have some 1AD but I'm not planning to stack them because I didnt think 1AD would be useful in such a short cycle.
- 05-11-2006, 07:33 PM
Odds are the gains that you make from only a 9 day cycle, will not be permanent. Most likely the gains that you do make will be lost during PCT. I wouldnt advise only doing a 9 day cycle.
- 05-11-2006, 07:53 PM
I actually wouldnt mind seeing someone do this and log each phase of it. It would be interesting to see what gains were kept and built on in the second and third mini-cycle.
Short superdrol cycles have been discussed before and with most people seeing most of their gains in the fist two weeks it COULD work out. Superdrol's effects also seem to linger a while after the last dose so you could continue to see gains for a few more days. I have a bottle sitting around that I just can't make myself crack open because of the horrible sides so many have reported. I am VERY prone to the back pumps and SD seems to be the worst in this regard. I usally dont get the back issues until about week 3 so I would be interested to hear how someone would do on a short SD cycle.
Good luck and log it if you do it!!!
05-11-2006, 08:06 PM
I think it would be find, i say go for it just use something like Novadex XT+Nolvadex+Lean Extreme for pct, also running ATD while on will help with suppression. REALLY nail pct i'd even add some Powerful among other things for your pct, if weight is gained fast it'll be harder to hold onto so really nail your pct. Also after your last cycle stay on the Novadex and Lean Extreme for 8 weeks or so.
05-11-2006, 08:07 PM
Why would you suggest staying on these 2 for 8 weeks??Originally Posted by CHAPS
05-11-2006, 08:13 PM
To keep cortisol low, estrogen low and testosterone high as to maintain the mass, chances are he'll keep everything and build more. Cortisol and exces estrogen are the culprits when it comes to eating up your muscle mass post cycle.
05-11-2006, 08:19 PM
I understand what the products are used for, but dont you think its just quite a bit excessive?Originally Posted by CHAPS
IMO, I just dont think that this cycle idea is a good one at all. Its not good for you horomones to be going through such a different level of imbalance like this. I understand that your hormones are differentiated when on cycle as it is, but in this scenario, your putting essentially synthetic test into your body, then attempting to get your natty test levels back to normal, and then putting synthetic test back in, then attempting to get them back to normal. I just dont think that this the greatest of ideas for this reason. Also, after such series of cycles, it could be very difficult for you to be able to get your test levels back to normal and restore your normal hormonal levels.
(I understand that SD isnt test, but an anabolic compound that alters your natural hormonal levels.)
05-11-2006, 08:29 PM
I see what your saying, but the truth is all of us that use these compounds Superdrol or Test Enthanate really don't know the longterm effects. And if pct is done correctly along with blood work, which i should have mentioned,I don't see any reason why you couldn't go back on. If your going on for 9 days you'll be causing less suppression than 21 or 30 day cycles. So my thinking is that it's easier on your body to cause less suppression for a shorter amount of time than it is for a longer period with more shutdown so instead of trying to jump start your test production from nill you'll only be shut maybe half as much. I know this can be done very effectively with 8 weekers, 8 weeks on 4 off or 6 on 3 off. I know most don't advocate shorter cycles but they really can be quite effective and imho safer. Yes you'll gain less but you'll keep more.
05-11-2006, 08:36 PM
I just dont understand why you think that you will keep more?? Gains that are made in a much shorter time, will be less likely long term gains. Also, shutdown is shutdown. If your shutdown its still gonna take @3 weeks for you to fully recover, regardless if your on cycle for 9 days or 3 weeks. Also, SD is still gonna effect cholesterol and the liver. Yes, it wont be as harsh if you were on longer, but its still going to effect it.Originally Posted by CHAPS
As for comparing SD and enthanate, you cant even put them in the same category as us knowing the long term effects. We in fact do know alot more on the long term effects of test enthanate. As for SD, we have no idea. Since thats the case, I would be very weary running any length of cycle, and then jumping right back on quickly after that. These new designer orals, IMO, are not worth the gains that they give compared to the side, as well as the potential long term effects that they could cause.
05-11-2006, 08:50 PM
Running ATD during the cycles will prevent total shutdown, i don't understand why you believe that gains made on a longer cycle will be more maintainable? Also the longer that you are on the more your body tries to fight back by upping cortisol levels so when you finally come off your fighting your body even more to keep your gains. I don't believe their is proof that long or short steroid use causes more permanent gains, i've come to my conclusion after reading Chemical Muscle Enhancement and Building the Perfect Beast written by Author L. Rea, someone who could argue the point much better than i ever could. Everything he says about shorter cycles makes ALOT of sense. And I really believe the longer your "on" the more your body is going to fight you.
05-11-2006, 08:54 PM
I have both books in PDF format, i've be more than happy to email them to you if you'd like, they are absolutely awesome books.
05-11-2006, 08:57 PM
Yeah, I understand that short cycles are not all that bad, but 9 days??? It just seems like a waste. I havent read the book by Rea, but Im assuming he's talking about using test or injectables, not designer compounds, and he's probably referring to cycles in the 4-6 week range, not 9 days. Like I said I havent read the book, so I dont know.
I understand that cortisol levels increase while your on cycle, but cortisol can easily be controlled once you come off cycle. I just feel that longer cycles allow your body to adjust better to your newfound weight compared to shorter cycles. It could also be my biased against alot of these new orals, that just seem to be not worth it at all. Short cycles do have their place and can be effective, just not 9 days is all.
05-11-2006, 09:00 PM
Ok i see what your saying, and ya i do have to agree that alot of these new orals are more harm than good, I did M1t when it was legal, well in the states (not Canada, lol), and that **** was ridiculously harsh. As for 9 days we'd have to see, i had a buddy that ran M1t in 7 and 14 day cycles and it was more effective, for him anyway than 21 or 30 day cycles.
05-11-2006, 09:04 PM
Ok, I can see the m1t and wanting to do a short cycle. That sh1t is absolute poison! I did it for two weeks and thats all I could stand, the sides were outrageous. Now I know that these other orals that are coming out are nowhere near as bad as m1t, Im just going to stay away from them.Originally Posted by CHAPS
Yeah, if you would email them to me that would be great. Here's my addy: firstname.lastname@example.org
05-11-2006, 09:15 PM
Ok i emailed to u, check your email, and i could use some more rep points HINT HINT!
05-11-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by CHAPS
Thanks bro for the files! I'll read them over this weekend and if I find them beneficial I'll hit you up with some rep points. (just playin, here ya go)
05-11-2006, 09:23 PM
lol Thanx bro much appreciated, enjoy the books and read them EACH like 4 times their is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much info to absorb if u try to get it all at once your head will hurt.
05-11-2006, 09:38 PM
Hey I havent' run a 9 day cycle but i have done 2week on 1 week off 2 week on cycle of test prop/dbol I ran 20mg tamox all the way through with ldex this was several years ago when I was experimenting but if I remember correctly I got a good 7lbs out of that 5 weeks of course I am on the small side so 7lbs showed up on my frame alot better A bigger person might get more especially depending on calorie intake etc
Also let me comment on something I believe the reason people feel the gains from long term cycles are more permanent has to do with the fact that everybody in the world has a set bodyweight that their body feels comfortable with and will naturally gravitate back towards until a new set point is made the longer the cycle the longer you body stays at that higher weight thus a new set point is established.
05-12-2006, 12:49 AM
You WILL keep most of it and it WILL be better for your system. 9 days into my pheraplex cycle i have gained 8lbs. Get it, get out is a good way to go. Shutdown USUALLY begins to occur later one around 14days the HPTA is affected the most, you will bounce back fast.
Go 20mg/day for 9 days and you will be happy.
05-13-2006, 01:15 AM
In 9 days you will lucky to gain 2 lbs of lbm. The rest will definitely be water retention and you will lose it. Run the stuff 3 weeks min anything else is bad advice.
05-13-2006, 02:00 PM
I've personally seen buddies put on 10lbs in a week on superdrol and keep 8lbs! Don't knock it till you tried it!
05-13-2006, 02:33 PM
Frizer - where do you get that shutdown occurs in 14 days?
M1T was shown to reduce testosterone to less than 75 ng/dl in 3 days. 3 days!
(That was shown by Supersoldier.)
05-13-2006, 02:35 PM
Not much sense came out of this comment. Probably should re-evaluate whatever research that you have done.Originally Posted by fritzer
05-15-2006, 01:11 PM
Another reason you get the best gains the first 9 days is because:
A) Your receptors the freashest.
B) You get the initial glycogen storrage. I attribute this to around 3 pounds for me (first 3 pounds).
Now, I think that yes, your first 9 days will be just as you think. Take a week off, but the storrage effects will last close to a week. The second 9 days should yeild nice results too, as you could compare it to being "on" for 18days.
I guess it all depends what the buildup levels are if you were on for 18 days, compared to having to re-build those levels again your 2nd mini-cycle. In particular, I beleive SD would be the best compound for such an expirement. I would NOT try this with ERGO or anything fairly androgenic.
I had this idea in my head, and tried with PP, but it was too soon after a drawn out cycle, and I didnt gain a thing.
Im interested. Let the games begin.
05-15-2006, 05:42 PM
idunk42, check out research done by Bill Roberts. His 2week steroid cycle profile and case study, etc.
9 days is a good way to go. Like i said gain good weight for nine days, your HPTA is not yet shut down and you will bounce back probably fully within week 2 of PCT and keep the majority of your gains.
Side effects are limited in this way aswell
05-15-2006, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by fritzer
Please post these studies. Also, as for the HPTA, Jmh80 posted results from anothers log saying that m1t shut him down within 3 days. Now these orals arent the same, or as potent as m1t, but they do shut you down, maybe just not as hard. I dont think that taking these orals period is worth it, more less doing it for 9 days and keeping like 2lbs of your gains.
Flossy, where did you hear about the freshness of the androgen receptors? Not trying to knock what your saying, but everything that I have read says that the life of the receptors is like 1 or 2 days, and receptors are regnerated or reborn (or something like that) within days or even hours. Not sure exactly, but I'll see what I can find.
05-15-2006, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by x muscle:
"Androgen Receptors are recyled all the time. the half life of AR receptors is very short. So refershing recptor is a myth.
What realy happens is that the body will adopt to high levels of androgens by downregulating the AR recptors (decreasing the number), this happens in long and heavy cycles. So if you planning to run a cycle more than 12 weeks you may want to deacrese the dosage toward the end.
After the cycle is done, and you stopped taking any androgens, the body will detect low levels of androge receptos, and act by upregulating it. A rebound may happen to recptors during post cycle therapy (recptor lvels highier than normal), but the body will detect this, and adjust the AR levels to homostasies. I would say it will take the body a month or two to level off and come back to normal."
05-15-2006, 06:40 PM
I'll put the links up later tonight. Ofcourse shutdown occur. M1T is harsh though. But even on three days of test shutdown will occur, but it is the effect on the HPTA and degree of shutdopwn that dictates recovery.
05-16-2006, 11:15 AM
I know- I have read that also. But what ever form of tolerence you would like to call it, I know from my own expirences, after a long SD cycle, then jumping to Phera a little too soon. Couldnt get anything out of it.Originally Posted by idunk42
Again, I realize the short life of a receptor- and the downregulating of receptors thing,.. well,.. the whole possibility of rebound could happen at the same time he would begin the secode 9 days (after the 2 weeks PCT) so,.
Its just from my expirence really, as where the sugestion came from. I have read the studies, so Im not pleading ignorrent here. What I really ment was more along the lines of keep the number of receptors high,.. as he wouldnt be on cycle that long, and could possibly be getting out the first 9 days before the body compensated. Then back in there while in the same condition (being "fresh").
05-20-2006, 03:41 AM
So would your receptors detect it as fresh if it is a different compound say you do two weeks of SD and then two weeks of ergomax?
Would this stimulate it more?
05-20-2006, 03:22 PM
Over training and undereating for one or two weeks before going on cycle will clear your androgen receptors and prime your body for growth. DNP and PGF-2 also has this effect.
05-23-2006, 07:37 AM
HAHAHHAA. i swear to god, the first time i popped two of those underground labs m1t like 2 years ago, i felt my balls immediately shrivel and the sex drive drop within 5 minutes. it was just a sudden immediate loss of libido. sort of like when you get a positive libido rush and feel it down there- BUT the exact opposite.Originally Posted by jmh80
05-26-2006, 02:12 AM
There is a fairly large thread regarding this already (superdrol mini cycles). Dr D and others all showed an interest and thought it was a good idea at the time (2 wk on / 2 wk off, repeat 3 times then full post cycle therapy). some looked at 3/2/3/2 as well..
05-26-2006, 02:28 AM
Although I am not experienced with Superdrol, I can attest to the fact that longer cycles are more easily maintainable, gains-wise. It would stand to reason that your body would become more accustomed to the added mass over this time, opposed to the yo-yo gains and losses that many see on these shorties.
My friend and mentor Chaos turned me on to the 100 day rule, and I ran with it. I maintain MUCH more on cycles of 100 days or over in length.. ( I prefer longer than 100 days, but that's beside the point) Of course this applies to nice friendly oil based AAS.. not those crazy pills you whippersnappers are popping left and right.
I agree with Idunk.. most definitely. This is a good discussion... That being said, I see no harm in shorties.. little burst/pulse-like cycles.. with some gains maintained.... earning a sum collective at the end after a few of them in succession... but I am much more convinced that LONGER injectable cycles will net you the best rewards. (not to mention easier on your system provided you take the appropriate measures)
05-30-2006, 10:52 AM
Since we are on the topic of short SD cycles, has anyone ever experimented with this idea to maintain gains and maximize workouts after a full PCT?
Has anyone tried taking 10mg of superdrol on workout days only? Or possibly only 2 days a week on your big workout days.
The idea would be to get the pump for a good workout as well as the temporary increased protein synthesis for the large post workout meal. Then the superdrol would slowly be eliminated from the body as you recover from the workout and in theory not cause shutdown.
Has anyone ever tried this method of supplementation to gain or preserve lbm? You could use all the classic test boosters along side this method since ideally it wouldn't cause shutdown of the HPTA.
05-31-2006, 12:16 PM
I think SD's ability to rat-pack glycogen is it's best feature. That being sdaid, I dont think I noticed a weight increase due to storrage until around maybe day 3.
IF that were to be done, maybe you could do Mon-Wed taking SD, and the rest off. Get your larger workouts donr first.
HOwever, I do not think that it will be productive though. Long term, maybe.
I was looking forward to tring that, or the "mini" cycles, but it would appear that I just dont respond the same as I first did. I used to have the feeling of being pumped, shoulders ready to explode, but I cant get that anymore it seems.
05-31-2006, 05:35 PM
IT - I think Dr. D said he tried it. Search for his post on it.
06-01-2006, 03:53 PM
My brother ran a 10 day cycle. He was gonna go 21 days, but he felt like ass the last 5 days and didn't want to finish it.
Start Weight: 148lb 5.4% bf
End Weight: 157lb 4.7% bf
End Weight after pct: 156lb 4.6% bf
End Weight 2 weeks after pct: 157lb 5.0% bf
Cycle: 20mg ED for 10 days
PCT: 50mg clomid/20mg nolva ED for 10 days
Food: ~250gm protein, ~400gm carbs, ~40gm fat
Supps: Multi Vitamin, nothing else
Weight: All weighed on a calibrated scale
BF: 3 tests averaged, taken with a bioimpedance monitor
Result: 9.2 lb of muslce gain, .2lb of fat loss
It's been a month or so since he finished pct and he's 158lb and his strength is still way up, its actually higher now than at the end of his cycle.
If I do a cycle, i'm going to limit it to two weeks. I'd rather stick myself for 10 weeks with a 18guage then play chicken with my organs.
06-01-2006, 03:59 PM
Well your brother should consider himself lucky that he didnt go through the whole cycle.
First off, he's only 20 years old. A big no no!! There's a good chance if he would have done the entire cycle, that he would have messed up his endocrine system. Only a multi? Another dumb mistake.
Also, 158? unless he's 5'2, then he could have easily increased his mass very easily with just proper diet and training. So when he started his cycle he only weighed 149lbs???? Definitely could have gained a ton more weight naturally.
Go up to your bro, and say, "thanks for being an idiot, now I know what not to do."
06-01-2006, 04:56 PM
I have no choice but to run a short cycle of SD anything longer and it kicks me in the butt.Not to hijack but someone hit on a point I had been thinking about should you adjust your training during PCT??
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