M-TRN and 4AD stack...

stinkfist

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Just thought I'd get the log opened up. I'll be starting tomorrow 3.20.06 and will post all the basic info in the morning...:)
 

goyard

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looking forward too this cycle, i will be doing a trn/zol cycle in the near future. Is there anything out there like 4ad that can still be purchased?
 

stinkfist

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looking forward too this cycle, i will be doing a trn/zol cycle in the near future. Is there anything out there like 4ad that can still be purchased?
If I understand correctly then that product should be Methoxy TST once Bioscience releases it.
 

goyard

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i was kind of thinking that but being noone really knows what this stuff is, im hesitant too buy it
 

stinkfist

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Ok, time to get this log started :) This is my first actual log on here so I hope it goes well, any questions, suggestions, or recommendations are most definately welcome. Now for some background information. Current stats are 6'1" 250lbs with approx 15% bodyfat. I've had experience with Superdrol, Ergomax LMG, PheraPlex, and Prostan. I've had good success with each one. I've trained off and on for some years, with the last two being consistent and dedicated. I would say the last 16 months I've really acquired a better knowledge base and understanding of strength training. I was able to put 40lbs on without any hormones, so I know diet is key and no matter how hard you train and how well you supplement if you don't eat, you won't grow :)

My main purpose for this cycle is for all out mass and strength, at this point in time I am not worried about leaning up, but then again getting fat isn't good either ;) I'll be running 4AD @ 400mgs/day and the M-TRN at 4.5mgs/day and will change the dosing if need be. I'm currently doing strongman training based on the Westside principles. It is tough, but rewarding. I'll post my training for each day, for the most part it will consist of 2 lower body days and 2 upper body days (mainly overhead or log presses) with GPP and conditiong work thrown in the mix. I won't be posting my diet as it is a bit tedious, but I can tell you guys I know exactly how much I need to eat which is A LOT :burger: :D

Extra supplementation will include: milk thistle, hawthorne berry, omega 3s, glucosamine, msm, chondroitin, and of course a multi vitamin. I have all my PCT supps on hand with the exception of activate. I plan on running Nolva, Rebound, Lean Xtreme and Activate for PCT once this cycle is done.

Now today is a gym day and I'll be posting my upper body workout later this evening.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Ok, time to get this log started :) This is my first actual log on here so I hope it goes well, any questions, suggestions, or recommendations are most definately welcome. Now for some background information. Current stats are 6'1" 250lbs with approx 15% bodyfat. I've had experience with Superdrol, Ergomax LMG, PheraPlex, and Prostan. I've had good success with each one. I've trained off and on for some years, with the last two being consistent and dedicated. I would say the last 16 months I've really acquired a better knowledge base and understanding of strength training. I was able to put 40lbs on without any hormones, so I know diet is key and no matter how hard you train and how well you supplement if you don't eat, you won't grow :)

My main purpose for this cycle is for all out mass and strength, at this point in time I am not worried about leaning up, but then again getting fat isn't good either ;) I'll be running 4AD @ 400mgs/day and the M-TRN at 4.5mgs/day and will change the dosing if need be. I'm currently doing strongman training based on the Westside principles. It is tough, but rewarding. I'll post my training for each day, for the most part it will consist of 2 lower body days and 2 upper body days (mainly overhead or log presses) with GPP and conditiong work thrown in the mix. I won't be posting my diet as it is a bit tedious, but I can tell you guys I know exactly how much I need to eat which is A LOT :burger: :D

Extra supplementation will include: milk thistle, hawthorne berry, omega 3s, glucosamine, msm, chondroitin, and of course a multi vitamin. I have all my PCT supps on hand with the exception of activate. I plan on running Nolva, Rebound, Lean Xtreme and Activate for PCT once this cycle is done.

Now today is a gym day and I'll be posting my upper body workout later this evening.

Looks gravy man, looking forward to a well done log.
 
jminis

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Looks like a solid stack, good luck I think if diet in on point your going to have a great cycle.:thumbsup:
 

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Day 1
Well today was the first full day on the cycle and I feel freakin HYOOGE...nah just kidding :rofl: Anyways, it's been a while since I started eating this seriously and it actually feels pretty good, kind of bloated, but still good. Like I posted earlier, my training routine is centered around strength and more specifically for strongman. Some of the exercises are very unconventional and to be honest are just some home brewed ideas that my training partner (master :) ) has come up with. He has made the strongman nationals in the past and is one strong mofo, so much that I am thoroughly getting my butt kicked every workout :nutkick: Anyways here is todays workout.

Upper Body Speed Day (Log Press)

About 30min of stretching/warming up and prehab work.

6x2 Log Press w/chains peak weight 175lbs

2x5 DB Cleans 60lbs

3x10 Home brewed DB presses...similar to Tate presses 20lbs

2x10 Home brewed Side Shoulder Raise (homemade contraption) 15lbs

3x10 Triceps Push downs 80lbs

3x10 Face Pulls 160lbs

4x10 Rickshaw Shrugs 140lbs not including weight of apparatus.

3x8 DB Rows 80lbs
 

stinkfist

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Day 2
+2lbs Weight today 252lbs...I must have just eaten a lot yesterday :D
 

stinkfist

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Day 3

+4lbs. Weight this morning 254lbs. Will post lower body routine this evening.
 
DreamWeaver

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Day 3

+4lbs. Weight this morning 254lbs. Will post lower body routine this evening.
Day 3 and already up 4 lbs seems like quite a bit.
 

stinkfist

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Day 3 and already up 4 lbs seems like quite a bit.
Indeed it does, the thing is I don't feel bloated and my waist hasn't exploded either.:blink: One thing I had not mentioned was that the 4AD was frontloaded 4 days before I started the TRN...perhaps that is the reason?
 
DreamWeaver

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That does make a difference, you'd think with the 4 lbs some of it would be water, this is most intriguing.
 

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Day 3 Continued...

Well apetite has been good still and I'm eating like a freakin Mac Truck so all is good in that department. Overall well being is good too, however, I have started to feel one negative effect from the stack already and that is a lower back pump :( This really affects my training because of the amount of lower body work I do, it actually hindered my performance in the gym today. I have some taurine so I will begin dosing it at 5 grams a day starting tonight. Hopefully that will help. If anyone has any other suggestions to help rid the lower back pump then let me know ;) Anyways here is todays routine.

Lower Body Max Effort (Box Squat)

30 min stretching/warming up/band gms etc.

Box Squat w/chains worked weight up to heavy 5's, end result 5x455lbs Peak Weight. Felt good, back pump was noticeable, but didn't affect too bad on this exercise.

3x5 Manta Ray Squat w/chains 345lbs

4x10 Pull throughs 100lbs

5x5 Barrel Pull (Homebrewed exercise) designed to simulate stones 150lbs

With the exception of the nasty back pump I felt great. Luckily it didn't affect my box squats, but it did wreak havoc on everything else. Hopefully I can get this resolved soon...
 

stinkfist

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Day 4

No change in weight. Overall weight still 254lbs. Gym day tomorrow.
 

goyard

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Just a question for ya or anyone that knows. Im going too do a trn/zol cycle and have thought about throwing some 4ad in there but I have only been able too get enough 4ad at 300mg a day for the length of my 4 week cycle. will the 300mg be enough? i see u are running 400 mg?
 

stinkfist

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Just a question for ya or anyone that knows. Im going too do a trn/zol cycle and have thought about throwing some 4ad in there but I have only been able too get enough 4ad at 300mg a day for the length of my 4 week cycle. will the 300mg be enough? i see u are running 400 mg?
I think you should be fine. You could always up the dose and drop the length if you wanted. Maybe some else could give their input as well.
 
hpower

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Are you doing 4AD as an oral or a transdermal? From what I know, oral should be dosed in the 800-900mg range, and transdermal around 400-600.

By the way, thanks for doing the log. I will be reading this one.
 

stinkfist

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Are you doing 4AD as an oral or a transdermal? From what I know, oral should be dosed in the 800-900mg range, and transdermal around 400-600.

By the way, thanks for doing the log. I will be reading this one.
Transdermal. I have a decent stash of the stuff so if need be I may bump up the 4AD or TRN.
 

stinkfist

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Day 5

+6lbs. Weight this morning 256lbs. Today is a gym day and I will post upper body routine this evening. Also, all weight measurements are taken in the morning on an empty stomach. :blink: Now I need some food :burger: :D
 
wastedwhiteboy2

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Just a question for ya or anyone that knows. Im going too do a trn/zol cycle and have thought about throwing some 4ad in there but I have only been able too get enough 4ad at 300mg a day for the length of my 4 week cycle. will the 300mg be enough? i see u are running 400 mg?
more than 300 would be better but I've ran 150mg as an add on to a good stack. I like to do a trans with all orals even if its a low dose.
 

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Day 5 Continued...

Well so far so good. Overall weight increase of 6lbs. No real negative sides to be noted, of course I haven't noticed any real increases in strength yet either. I was having a good workout until I noticed I strained/stretched my upper abdominals so after that I took the rest of the workout easy. Today there is no noticeable strain and all feels good. So here is last nights workout.


Upper Body Max Effort

30 min warmup and stretching etc.

Worked my way up to triples on the log
3x185lbs

3x5 Staning Military Pressess 175lbs

3x8 Close Grip Bench 185lbs

3x10 Tate Presses 35lbs

3x10 Barbel Rows 225lbs

Called it a day early because of a slight strain in my upper ab region. Decided not push things.
 

stinkfist

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Day 6

+ 6.5lbs. Weight this morning 256.5lbs. No gym today, gonna rest and relax for tomorrows workout.
 
wideguy

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So you're taking 5 grams of taurine ed for the back pumps, and it seems to be working.
 

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Day 7

+8lbs. Weighed in this morning at 258lbs. Well so far I've been gaining weight and strength increases have been ok thus far, it was very hard to tell today due to some uncomfortable back pumps, but I did feel strong on my squats. This weeks upper body workouts should realy shed light into how well the strength increases are. Unfortunately I am still getting these nasty back pumps and it really interferes with the majority of my lower body workouts. Squats don't seem to be affected so much, it is when I am doing some serious bending like on good mornings, pull throughs, hypers, and deadlifts that I feel like sh.t. Well here is today's workout.

Lower Body Dynamic Effort

30 min warming up, stretching and prehab work

6x2 Box Squats with Chains 345lbs (peak weight) 60 sec rest between sets.

4x10 Pull throughs 100lbs

5x5 Rickshaw Deadlifts 250lbs

3x12 Band Leg Curls (Average Band)

Normally today we do sled work, but my training partner was out of town so there was no access to this exercise today :( Squats felt great, no real fatigue whatsover. I could feel the back acting up, but it doesn't seem to interefere too much with my squats, it did however jack everything else up.


So you're taking 5 grams of taurine ed for the back pumps, and it seems to be working.
Yes I am taking 5 grams of taurine a day, but it has not helped at all. :( Suggestions anyone?
 
wideguy

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UCK! I'm listening too bro. Just ordered a bottle and was strongly considering adding it to my last few weeks of var (only 3 weeks due to it being harsh). BUt I hate back pumps like nothing else. HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE SQUAT OR DEADLIFT WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A STELL ROD STUFF UP THEIR SPINE! I WAS interested since I've heard tren/test/var give great body recomp effects, but now I'm not sure. Maybe I'll just leave it out and sell it for an inflated price once it's all gone and but some REAL TREN! Ok now I'm getting cranky, I'm sorry. It's time to spank it and hit my blankets. Gnite.

BTW 8lbs in 7 days is pretty sick. Are you leaning out/getting more vascular? ALso, I'm pretty sure the answer will be NO. But has 4-ad ever given you back pumps? I had to ask.
 

stinkfist

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UCK! I'm listening too bro. Just ordered a bottle and was strongly considering adding it to my last few weeks of var (only 3 weeks due to it being harsh). BUt I hate back pumps like nothing else. HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE SQUAT OR DEADLIFT WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A STELL ROD STUFF UP THEIR SPINE! I WAS interested since I've heard tren/test/var give great body recomp effects, but now I'm not sure. Maybe I'll just leave it out and sell it for an inflated price once it's all gone and but some REAL TREN! Ok now I'm getting cranky, I'm sorry. It's time to spank it and hit my blankets. Gnite.

BTW 8lbs in 7 days is pretty sick. Are you leaning out/getting more vascular? ALso, I'm pretty sure the answer will be NO. But has 4-ad ever given you back pumps? I had to ask.
Yeah the back pumps suck major ass, I definately need to find a way around this. As for the weight gain, so far it feels as if my bodyfat has remained the same and I'm just getting "bigger." No increased notches on the belt or weight belt for that matter. Everything feels solid and I have no real other pumps on any muscles besides the back. On other compounds my arms and upper body feel jacked and swolen, nothing so far on this, but they do look and feel bigger. Now for the 4AD giving me back pumps I really couldn't tell you as this is the first time I've had the chance to use it. I ordered a decent supply of M1T and 4AD before the ban and decided to leave the M1T alone for now and throw the 4AD into the mix with some other compounds. One nice thing I will say is that so far my nuts are their regular size. On most other compounds they are usually rapidly shrinking like dried up grapes, but right now they're hanging tough and the libido is kickin ass too :)
 

stinkfist

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Day 8

+11lbs. :wtf: Weight this morning 261lbs. Today is a gym day so I will post my upper body workout this evening.
 
wideguy

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Your nuts would shrink noticeably in 7 days? BTW, do you own all that strongman equipemnt? Or do you have a strongman gym in your area?
 
warriorway

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Potassium is cheap and can help with the back pump. If nothing else helps you could lower the trn dose.
 

anabolicandre

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Potassium might do the trick... But I found relief in Potassium Magnesium Asparate (pma). both a inexpensive, and can be found at your local vitamin store. Hope that helps

btw +11 pounds in a week is redic. Are you taking pictures to monitor your progress?
 

stinkfist

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Your nuts would shrink noticeably in 7 days? BTW, do you own all that strongman equipemnt? Or do you have a strongman gym in your area?
I thought the same thing, but as of this morning they were still doing good, very odd. Everything else I've ever taken usually shuts me down right away and my libido is just non existent. As for the equipment, my training partner owns all of it. The dude is a mad genius when it comes to machining and he actually made most of the toys. He is also much stronger than me. I've gained and learned so much from just training with him. He's a very cool guy. Our gym owner is pretty cool too seeing how he lets him store all his sh.t there and no one gives us crap when we're getting all crazy :)
 

stinkfist

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Potassium might do the trick... But I found relief in Potassium Magnesium Asparate (pma). both a inexpensive, and can be found at your local vitamin store. Hope that helps

btw +11 pounds in a week is redic. Are you taking pictures to monitor your progress?
Thanks guys for the suggestions on the back pumps, I'll head to the Vitamin Cottage and see what they have. Any recommendations on dosing?

Unfortunately I didn't take any before photos, kind of wish I did now. I'm pretty stoked about the gains thus far, but I will say that I've been eating non freakin stop and honestly I haven't hit one fast food place since I started this. Coming into this cycle I was very determined to hit at least 265lbs and I'm almost there.
 
wideguy

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It's likey the 4-ad is what's keeping your libido running. Right? Have you ever run an AAS cycle with test in it and still had no libido?

As for the strongman thing I have just one comment

LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
bioman

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11 pounds in 8 days is scary, lol. Hope it sticks around. Whenever gains come on that fast for me, I usually start to worry about the up and coming sides.
 

200wannabe

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How are you taking the 4AD oral or trans? (sorry if its been posted had to skim the log im at work)

Great results so far!
 

stinkfist

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It's likey the 4-ad is what's keeping your libido running. Right? Have you ever run an AAS cycle with test in it and still had no libido?

As for the strongman thing I have just one comment

LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's my understanding that the 4AD is what is keeping everything up and running. So far so good, like I said, most of the time my libido is sh.t. Wideguy, I haven't ventured into the true "darkside" yet so I can't comment on the test issue. I do remember reading that test should be a base for most cycles and now I think I understand why. Oh, and the strongman stuff is way cool too :woohoo:
 

stinkfist

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11 pounds in 8 days is scary, lol. Hope it sticks around. Whenever gains come on that fast for me, I usually start to worry about the up and coming sides.
Bio, I do agree 8 days is rather quick for 11 pounds and like you said hopefully it sticks. My diet, training and such is in check, I just hope my body stays healthy and I can avoid any potential problems.
 

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Day 8...Continued

Sorry for not posting last nights workout, but I got side tracked with some food and tv :D I had some increases on my weights for yesterdays workout, but this is a deload week that we do approx every 4 weeks so it is difficult to say if I had already been gaining strength or if this stack just kicked in. I honestly think the increase was just from training and not the hormones. Anyways, here is the routine.

Upper Body Speed Day (Deload)

The following 4 exercises were all done for 2 sets with less than 1 minute rest between each exercise. Not fun at all :blink:

2x10 Log Press 125lbs

2x10 Side Lateral Raises 30lbs

2x10 Lying Rear Delt Raises 40lbs

2x10 Face Pulls 140lbs





3x10 JM Dumbell Presses 40lbs

3x10 Elbows Out Extensions 35lbs

1xFailure Band Pushdowns (Purple Band)

4x15 Rickshaw Shrugs 140lbs not including weight of apparatus

3x10 Lat Pulldowns Reverse Grip 140lbs

3x5 Pull ups Bodyweight

4x20 Pull down Down Abs 70lbs
 

stinkfist

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Day 9

No change in weight. Overall status still 261lbs. No gym today so I plan on eating a lot and getting some rest :) One thing to note was that last night not only I noticed but the gf as well noticed that my midsection seemed to have "tightened" up or at least appeared to be leaning up. Not that I'm all ripped or anything :icon_lol: but I don't look so fat I guess :D
 
Mulletsoldier

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Hmm..That is sweet, let's hope it's the TRN!
 
wideguy

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Kind of a dumb question but I know you mentioned something about wanting to get up to 265 right? HAve you gotten there in the past or bigger because if so then the 11 lbs you've gained is still impressive but lets not forget that muscle memory is playing a large factor.
 

stinkfist

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Kind of a dumb question but I know you mentioned something about wanting to get up to 265 right? HAve you gotten there in the past or bigger because if so then the 11 lbs you've gained is still impressive but lets not forget that muscle memory is playing a large factor.
The heaviest I've ever been is a bloated 255lbs and that was months ago off a SD cycle. I eventually leveled out to 250 ish after the cycle. I've been 245-250lbs for probably 6 months and haven't cut or dieted down in a while. The 261 that I am right now is leaner and tighter than the 255 I peaked out on before.
 
wideguy

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Then that's even more impressive. Vascularity?

BTW, I'll start my log in a day or so. I'm adding it at 2 mg for the first 3-4 days and then if the scale doesn't go up or some bodyrecomp/strength gains don't occur I'll probably up it to 4 mg and run it for 2 weeks alongside my current cycle.
 

stinkfist

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Then that's even more impressive. Vascularity?

BTW, I'll start my log in a day or so. I'm adding it at 2 mg for the first 3-4 days and then if the scale doesn't go up or some bodyrecomp/strength gains don't occur I'll probably up it to 4 mg and run it for 2 weeks alongside my current cycle.
I have been getting some vascularity, I'm sure if I had a lower bf% things would be looking real good. I can definately tell a difference in my arms and shoulders.
 
wideguy

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Just wondering if you normally have any vascularity going on? I'm wondering what to expect for myself, being that I'm generally not vascular at all. However, I've always wondered if that has anything to do with my cardio being pretty poor.
 
smokey the bear

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I seriously don't think that cardio has much to do with the vascularity of your appendages. after i did an M1T cycle without BP support my veins damn near blew out of my body, and have been that way ever since.. i don't advise following my steps to vascularity, as i am obviously retarded..

Great thread so far guys, i was planning the same stack, except at slightly higher dosages; 4AD@500mg trans & TRN@4-6mg ED. but now that i see the results your getting stinkfist, i may lower the doses seeing as our hormone histories are similar and you weigh more than i do..keep up the good work and thanks for the good thread:thumbsup:
 

stinkfist

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Day 10

+12.5lbs. Weight this morning was 262.5lbs, will post workout routine later this evening.

Wideguy, for the most part I'm not very vascular. On a few cycles it has increased, most notably on Superdrol.

Smokey, so far so good. The weight is coming on, but I've yet to see a real strength increase...yet.
 

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