When I Lose Control.....I Like It! Prop/Tren A
- 07-03-2005, 04:54 PM
July 3, 2005
Squats 135x10, 155x10, 175x10, 195x10, 220x5, 195x8, 175x9
I just decided to do squats for my whole leg workout. Didn't bother with leg extensions and I didn't plan on doing deads again until next time. I got the workout done in less than a half hour. Plenty of time to bask in the sun and swim. Damn, its a hard life these days.
- 07-03-2005, 05:02 PM
- 07-03-2005, 05:21 PM
I didnt realize you were eating 4000 cal. I can see how you can do all that cardio now. Im cutting right now so I would probably encounter too much catabolism doin that much. The boredom is getting less. I have just been renting dvd's and watching them while I do my cardio. You gave me a little inspiration so I went for 45min on the treadmill today instead of my normal 30. I will probably stick with 45 for a couple weeks then go for an hour. My cardio has been goin better than ever as well. My mom just had a quadruple bypass. It pretty bad in her family so I have completely changed the way that I eat and have started doin cardio. I dont wanna have a heart attack at 35. Im still young but I want to make every precaution that I can. Later, Anthony
07-03-2005, 11:48 PM
That is okay. I tend to ramble quite a bit anyhow.Originally Posted by mass_builder
I did. It is going to be an 8-10 weeker on short esters when it is all said and done with. I am probably about to start my 8th week. I do however lose track of time occasionally, especially regarding how long I have actually been on. The trend these days seems to be to run Tren at least 8 weeks. Regardless of what advice I have been given, I would probably have extended the cycle no matter what. I may not be far from having lost too much hair to continue. Either that will be the limiting factor or I will simply quite when I run out of Prop/Tren. Both are about equally probable at this point and will leave me with an 8-10 week cycle in sum.but did you extend your cycle beyond 6 weeks?!
07-04-2005, 12:02 AM
Yep. I can't give an exact amount b/c I am not counting calories (scale and tape measure are good enough guides to progress). But 4000 is my best estimate for the cycle. No less than 3500 that is for sure.Originally Posted by Ant.
Agreed. A pretty strong dose of AAS is needed to do what I am doing successfully, even for someone that is a reasonable endomorph.Im cutting right now so I would probably encounter too much catabolism doin that much.
I have been doing the same, except I split up my cardio and dvd watching. Watching the dvd's seems to take my mind off of eating a bit.The boredom is getting less. I have just been renting dvd's and watching them while I do my cardio. You gave me a little inspiration so I went for 45min on the treadmill today instead of my normal 30. I will probably stick with 45 for a couple weeks then go for an hour. My cardio has been goin better than ever as well. My mom just had a quadruple bypass. It pretty bad in her family so I have completely changed the way that I eat and have started doin cardio. I dont wanna have a heart attack at 35. Im still young but I want to make every precaution that I can. Later, Anthony
I am really glad to hear you are making changes for the better. Thankfully your mom caught the problem before it was too late. It is unfortunate, but occasionally some bad things have to happen before we can really clearly see the big picture and what is important.
Having a higher quality of life overall is one of the reasons I use said performance enhancing substances. But it is a fine line that we all walk and it can be easy to get a little careless, especially with those most basic things we know we need to be doing.
Take it easy.
07-04-2005, 02:00 PM
07-05-2005, 01:50 PM
July 5, 2005
Chins 235x8, 235x7, 235x6, 235x5
HS Low Rows 180x12, 220x10, 260x10, 300x7
Curls 60x8, 55x8, 50x8
Elliptical 75:00, 1055 kcals
Nothing much to note. Weighed in a bit less than I expected to after the fourth. I was pretty dried out though as I only lost a pound or so after 75 minutes of cardio.
I think I am going to try about 3 months of Finasteride to see if I notice improvement in shedding. I feel like I should give it an honest shot. Dosing will be twice a day, moderate amount (need to check). If I can stop the hair loss from Test, I would pretty much be set as I know how to control the gyno and don't really get other side effects from it.
07-05-2005, 02:50 PM
07-05-2005, 07:33 PM
I am probably still a little over 20% at least. Waist measured 38.8" or so last time I took it. I started around 41.25-41.5" or so, so I have gone from looking quite fat to pretty normal. I think I'll be happy when I hit 38" and ready to bulk again when I get down to about 36" or so.
I don't want to get too far below 225 if I don't have to. Someone said when I was 250, it would take getting down to 210 to be pretty lean. I think they were pretty well spot on.
07-06-2005, 05:43 PM
July 6, 2005
Elliptical 91:00, 1300 kcals
Feeling good at the lighter weight. Going to try to keep it kind of stable around 230-235 while still dropping fat. Means a bit more food and maybe a bitmore drugs. Cardio workin too well to stop. My knees are feeling really good now.
07-07-2005, 01:44 PM
July 7, 2005
DB OH Press 60x10, 70x6, 80x7, 70x7, 70x2x8
JM Press 135x10, 155x10, 175x7, 175x7
Pushdowns 30x13, 40x7, 30x3x11
Elliptical 91:00, 1300 kcals
I like Test Prop.
07-08-2005, 12:58 PM
July 8, 2005
Squat 135x10, 155x10, 175x10, 205x8, 205x7, 205x6
Conventional Deadlifts 225x10, 275x10, 295x6
Elliptical 65:00, 915 kcals
I ran out of gas on the deadlifts. Seems better to do them first then squat. Took me an extra 10 minutes or so on cardio to get back to feeling normal and for the legs to work right.
07-09-2005, 02:09 PM
July 9, 2005
Elliptical 85:00, 1225 kcals
Went out for italian last night. Had a bunch of buttered popcorn and Dr. Pepper. Woke up a couple lbs lighter.
07-10-2005, 04:53 PM
July 10, 2005
HS High Rows 140x10 200x10 240x10 260x7 280x4 220x10
HS Low Rows 200x10, 220x10, 240x10
Curls 60x9, 55x8, 50x7
Elliptical 65:00, 935 kcals
07-11-2005, 09:14 AM
You mentioned in the beginning of the thread that you heard about prop sides ie :hairloss. I have never heard of the ester having an effect of hair. Or is it all test products that cause you to shed.
And in terms of you own problem two things. How often to you apply your Spiro? ANd have you taking the finasteride since the beginning of the cycle or just recently?
07-11-2005, 09:26 AM
Its definitely not the ester causing the problem but just that I am taking testosterone. I shed on all Test products I have used including 4AD.
I actually am not using Spiro now. My plan was to apply it about 3 times per day due to a shorter half life if I am remembering correctly. But whenever I tried to apply it, the physical process of putting it on at all seemed to cause so much more shedding that it just wasn't worth it to me, so I am not using it or AA.
I haven't honestly given finasteride a long term shot yet. I think I will start it after pct actually just in case it gives me trouble with libido. Pirate brought this point up to me on Ironmagazineforums. Then will run it for 3 months at maybe 2-3 mg ed at most. I am not convinced that starting it right now will stop the loss in time. Best thing for me to do is just stop the cycle soonish and that will stop the shedding gauranteed. I'll use the finasteride as a main means of hair loss recovery in the next few months. Hopefully it will help. And then I will probably keep taking it if it works throughout my next long test cycle, whenever that is.
07-11-2005, 10:11 AM
Ok. I would start it in PCT as well. But it takes months for it to have the desired effectOriginally Posted by Cardinal
(hair regowth) but i would bet a few weeks to see the sheeding drop off.. You should also combine it with 5% rogaine (generic) for enhanced results. AA on the other hand is worthless as a primary anti-hairloss agent. IMO you need the big guns ie: Rogaine 5%, Propecia/Proscar or Avodart. And the last three's libido issue is over blown. I think that Proscar (5mg) has a statisical percentage of 3-4% of users experiancing that problem. And then the variation is + or - 3%. Plus a lot of guys blame 5-alpha blockers if they had a bad day of performing in the sack. Or they couldn't get it up because they have been working 12hr days for two weeks. So there are a lot of variants as to why someone is having so libido issues..not just Propecia/Proscar.
On a side note I would LOVE to try Tren but I scared ****less that I will lose my hair in droves. Have you noticed any increased shedding on Fina? And have you heard of other experiancing similar situations as yours: hairloss on Test but not on Fina?
07-12-2005, 10:01 AM
Thanks for the feedback on Finasteride. It probably would be good to get a jump on it now. I also saw a pretty low figure for people with libido problems.
I had initially planned to use spiro about 3x per day due to a relatively shorter half life. But I found that I was shedding so much just due to the application process, it wasn't worth it to me. I also didn't want to use anything that might increase shedding initially. (Same with rogaine, I don't want to stay on that indefinitely). I would rather give finasteride an independent trial so that I can really judge how effective it is by itself. It may be all that I need. In theory that should work well with shedding from Test.
Tren: You might as well give it a shot imo. Just use the short ester and if you start losing a lot of hair from it, just quit and it should be out of your system shortly. Half life is only three days I think. But no, I haven't come across anyone else that had as bad of a problem with Testosterone but almost no trouble at all using Tren. In many ways I wish it were the other way around. I want to be able to use test moreso than tren despite how awesome tren is. The eventual recovery problems would just be too much after longterm use imo.
07-12-2005, 10:02 AM
07-12-2005, 02:40 PM
July 12, 2005
HS Incline Press 160x10 200x8 240x6 260x5 220x2x8
HS Shoulder Press 240x7
DB OH Press 65x8
HS Tricep 120x12, 140x10, 160x7
Elliptical 65:00 955 kcals
HS machines sure felt really good on my joints. It is amazing how simply choosing the right movements and taking time to avoid activities that bother my joints really does help. Being on Test/Tren may certainly negatively impact joint health, but I sure can't tell it now. Since I stopped doing calf work, I no longer have achilles tendon pain at all.
07-13-2005, 02:02 PM
July 13, 2005
225x5, 295x5, 345x3, 375x1, 395x1, 405x1 (20 lb PR) 225x12
Squats 135x10, 155x10, 175x8, 195x8
Elliptical 65:00 930 kcals
I know I am pretty devoted to bodybuilding at the moment, but I have wanted a 405 deadlift for quite some time now. My old max was 385. 375 actually felt pretty heavy and I had my reservations about pushing it further. But I didn't feel like I was going to break anything so I gave it a shot and I am sure glad I did. Goal achieved!
Only problem I had is that I felt my head was going to explode on the last two heavy sets. Overall I am really pleased with the workout.
07-14-2005, 01:01 PM
July 14, 2005
Elliptical 106:00 1500 kcals
Making a few minor dietary adjustments. I have been hungry for fruit lately, so I am going to go with more blackberry/blueberry protein shakes, hood oj, apples,bananas etc + lean meats. Will try to get calories down around 3000. I'll see where they fall and track them a little closer for the next week or so.
07-15-2005, 12:13 PM
July 15, 2005
HS High Row 140x10, 180x10, 220x8
Curls 60x10, 65x5, 55x7, 50x7
Wrist Curls 30x2x9
Elliptical 65:00 925 kcals
Strength seems to still be going up a little. Hit a PR on curls. Form was kind of sloppy but definitely I was stronger.
07-17-2005, 08:15 PM
July 17, 2005
DB OH Press 65x2x8
Tricep Pushdowns 30x2x10, 40x9
DB Laterals 30x8, 35x10
Skipped cardio today on account of work. I have about 1 week left on cycle (I am setting deadline to go off). I feel like it is a good time to stay at maintenance for awhile.
07-18-2005, 01:19 PM
July 18, 2005
Squat 135x8, 155x8, 185x8, 215x8, 225x8, 235x5, 245x5
Elliptical 30:00, 425 kcals
Bowling 60:00, fun but not really cardio
First time squatting heavy (for me) in awhile. 245 actually felt pretty good. If I can hit 250 or 255 next time I will pretty much be as strong as I have ever been on every exercise I train (or damn close).
07-18-2005, 11:41 PM
Is the body-recomp pretty evident in the mirror, I see measurement is down a couple inches? Good progress btw.
07-19-2005, 10:31 AM
Yes, it is definitely pretty evident in the mirror. It is especially evident after a workout. Still getting good muscle pump/hardness, vascularity. For having nearly a 39" waist, things are looking alright.
I have had quite a few people tell me I look a lot leaner. They are surprised I have lost only about 8-10 lbs or so. Most people think I lost a lot more than that.
For someone starting out leaner than I was considering the same cycle, I think you can expect some pretty dramatic results.
07-19-2005, 02:30 PM
07-20-2005, 12:53 AM
Great log cardinal, you have motivated me to do more cardio!!!
Looks like you are getting great results in terms of fatloss. With as many drugs as you are on, i dont see why you dont cut cals a bit more though, get that 36" waist you want
07-20-2005, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the feedback. And you are right. If I cut calories down to about 2500 or so per day, the fatloss would have been plain sick. But I really don't want to regain my old binge eating disorder. So I eat pretty close to satiety most of the time. When I can restrict calories without getting the thoughts that lead to my tendency to binge, I do so. I am comfortable enough with my condition now to allow for several extra months to reach my fatloss goal. No reason not to take it slow and easy. Plus I need plenty of time to figure out what will work best to regrow hair and to make sure my gyno problems become a total nonissue. Once again, thanks for the feedback.
07-20-2005, 10:54 PM
July 20, 2005
HS High Row 200x8, 240x8, 260x6, 280x3
Curls 60x9, 65x5, 50x7, 50x7
HS Low Row 200x8, 300x5, 280x8
07-21-2005, 02:00 PM
July 21, 2005
Bench 185x10, 225x5, 245x5, 275x1 (PR)
Incline 205x7, 205x8 (w/help)
Crossovers 20x10, 25x10, 35x10, 20x10
HS Decline 120x9
HS Incline 180x6
Elliptical 65:00, 923 kcals
Had a good workout partner today, so I went for a max on bench. Got 275 pretty easily. I figure I might be good for 280-285 if I did things properly re: warmups etc. Good day overall. Skipped Tris and will hit them in a few days.
07-22-2005, 01:07 PM
07-23-2005, 02:58 PM
July 23, 2005
Squats 135x6, 185x6, 225x5, 255x5, 225x10
Leg Extensions 160x8, 200x8, 240x8
Elliptical 48:00, 700 kcals
Alright. Did my last injection yesterday and I am going to start pct in about 4.5 days or so. 260x5 was my old 5RM on squats. 255x5 was pretty easy, so I feel confident I am at my strongest. My strength nearly always falls off quite dramatically about 1-2 weeks into pct. Hopefully this won't be the case now, but I am not expecting anything new. I ran the Tren 9+ weeks and gave my strength plenty of time to stabilize, so maybe it will be a bit more keepable.
07-24-2005, 05:06 PM
July 24, 2005
JM Press 135x8, 155x8, 175x6
Modified Tates 45x6, 55x6, 65x4, 60x5
Pushdowns 40x9, 30x3x10
Curls 60x9, 60x7
Hammer Curls 50x8
C Curls 45x2x8, 50x5
Wrist Curls 3 sets
Elliptical 65:00 925 kcals
Dropped about 5 lbs overnight. I definitely look better in the mirror. Strength still up, good pumps in the gym and definitely still feeling really good overall.
07-26-2005, 01:27 PM
July 26, 2005
Deadlifts 135x8, 225x6, 275x6, 315x7, 295x8
HS Low Rows 200x8, 260x2x8
Elliptical 42:00, 600 kcals
Toning down the cardio a little bit. I am going to watch the scale and if more weight starts to drop, I will add calories big time. I am probably at about 4500 kcals/day now. I am really liking how much leaner I look after dropping 3/4 of an inch off the waist in what appears to be about a week now.
As luck would have it (and I am not complaining about being with a ridiculously hot girl), I will probably be fairly active this weekend. So I ordered some stuff from IBE (Vitamin C, Vitamin V, and clomid) and will probably make use of the last two as libido is quite low at the moment compared to what it was while I was on. May also get maca, tribulus and zma but that would just be overkill hehe.
07-28-2005, 02:42 PM
July 28, 2005
DB OH Press 70x9, 70x7, 70x7
Crossovers 25x8, 35x2x10
HS Tricep 60x10, 70x8, 80x2x8
HS Incline 160x10, 180x8, 200x2x5
Abs 100x3x5, 50x6
Elliptical 45:00 685 kcals
I used a bit lighter weight today, but my strength really hasn't started to drop off much yet. Have been eating more, which left me with about 1/5 inch more around the waist and a few pounds heavier. Not complaining.
07-29-2005, 11:02 PM
July 29, 2005
Squats 205x5, 225x5, 245x5, 225x7
Leg Extensions 4 sets
Some of the CNS stimulation is already going away. Lost about 10 lbs on my squat. Endurance is very high on cardio. Definitely really happy about the cardiovascular effects of doing the elliptical nearly every day since May whatever. Physique overall is looking a bit softer after being off of Tren for awhile now. Libido not where I would like it to be.
08-01-2005, 12:45 PM
August 1, 2005
CGBP 135x6, 165x6, 195x6, 225x5, 235x4
DB OH Press 70x8, 80x5, 70x9, 65x9
Tates 40x8, 50x8, 50x7
Laterals 30x10, 25x12
Crossovers 30x10, 35x8, 35x8
Elliptical 47:00, 750 kcals
Sorry for the lack of updates the last few days. Had to work and didn't lift this weekend, but I did do plenty of cardio. Felt good to get back in the gym. Strength is down a bit on pressing work but nothing major. Most of the cell volumization is gone and my arms are down about .5". I am going to just maintain what I have for the next few weeks and try not to really gain or lose any weight overall. Protein intake has been spot on the last week or so. Calories still over 4000.
08-01-2005, 12:49 PM
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