When I Lose Control.....I Like It! Prop/Tren A

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    Any big changes in the mirror you can notice?

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    Brogers,

    Not yet. This cycle is going to require some patience on my part. Running a close to eucaloric diet, the changes sure will come slow. I'll be lucky if I get about 5 lbs muscle over the whole cycle. That will be harder to notice in comparison to my last 50 lb weight gain this winter. Fat loss will be mainly dictated by how hypocaloric I can stay and not by the purported thermogenic benefits of Tren. I can see why many people say 3-4 weeks isn't anywhere near long enough to realize major visual changes just from being on Tren.

    The biggest changes so far have definitely been in my training ability. Both endurance strength and limit strength with the weights.
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    June 4, 2005

    Elliptical 60:00, 65 rpm

    Can't say I didn't do my cardio on this cycle! This was really easy for me, but it got to my knees pretty bad once I hit an hour on the elliptical.
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    June 5, 2005

    Leg Day

    Squats 135x8, 155x8, 175x8, 195x7, 175x8
    Leg Extensions 60,70,80x20, 90x15


    Cardio

    Elliptical 35:00, 525 kcals, 75 rpm

    Notes

    Yes my top set of 195x7 on squats does represent a significant strength gain =D I am quite weak overall.
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    June 6, 2005

    Bodyweight: 243.5

    Cardio

    Elliptical 65:00, 68rpm, 1000kcals

    Workout

    Incline DB Press 50x8, 70x8, 80x7, 80x6, 70x8
    JM Press 135x2x8
    HS Incline 80x8
    Pushdowns 30x10
    Tates 40x11, 40x11
    Flies 45x10


    Did my workout after cardio. Strength was down a bit as a result. I did switch up the movements I normally train and tried to keep the rep range higher.

    Cardio Edit

    3-4 hours Lawn Care Spread over last 48 hours
    Last edited by Cardinal; 06-06-2005 at 11:37 PM.
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    June 7, 2005

    Bodyweight: 245

    Cardio

    Elliptical 65:00, 1000+ kcals
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    June 8, 2005

    Bodyweight: 248

    I injected some prop over my last five shots and I think this is what is responsible for the weight jump. I am not complaining. Definitely not gaining fat.

    Workout

    HS High Row 200x6, 240x6, 260x5, 280x4
    Neutral Chins 248x4
    Curls 60x7, 60x6, 50x10
    HS Low Row 260x9, 300x6
    Wrist Curls 30x2x7


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 70 rpm

    My right knee is giving me some hell. I may have to start incline walking for awhile and do less elliptical work.

    Notes

    I am definitely still gaining strength, although at a much slower rate than I was initially. I came pretty close to getting another rep on curls, which is tough for me. I feel close to my natural limit on that lift. 280 felt heavy on the high rows and I lacked some rom. Chinups were hurting my elbow joint again, so I backed off after one set. I still need to do Hammer Strength stuff to feel really good. Training more like EOD still seems best for me, whether I am on or not.
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    Great log Cardinal. Very detailed and interesting. Keep up the good work.
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    Thanks Redspy. Glad it has been of some interest and hopefully is useful as well.
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    June 9, 2005

    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 900 kcals

    AAS Notes

    I injected a bit more frequently over the last three days, effectively upping my dose. I experienced more or less what I expected. Last night I had a good case of insomnia and ridiculously minor night sweats (they have been hardly noticable for me throughout). Until that point most all of the side effects of tren had vanished except for the strength gains and nipple hardness. I am interested to see if I accrue strength faster now at a slightly higher dose. I suspect I will.

    I am also still dosing prop with the Tren now, so that is what is keeping my bodyweight up. It definitely gives me a much softer look than running tren by itself. I would definitely have a very hard time dropping bodyweight if I ran tren/prop together the whole time. I would have to starve myself to some extent. Running a eucaloric/mildly hypocaloric diet like I am would not at all cut it for weight loss.

    Gonna rest up. Got some deadlifting PRs to set tomorrow!
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    June 10, 2005

    Bodyweight: 248

    Workout

    Conventional Deadlifts 225x5 275x5, 335x2x5, 315x7
    Leg Extensions 60,80,90x15, 100x15, 110x10
    Calf Raises 330x20


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 900 kcals

    Notes

    My form broke down quite a bit on the second set of deads with 335. Still getting stronger though, so I am happy. Cardio has felt quite good except for having knee problems. I got a x-large knee brace and am going to try it starting tomorrow. Overall, I am having almost no arrhythmic heart beats now and I think the cardio has been helping out somewhat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    Thanks Redspy. Glad it has been of some interest and hopefully is useful as well.
    It's definitely interesting, my next cycle will consist of test cyp and tren e. Although they're different esters it's interesting to observe the positive effects and side effects.
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    Wow cardinal just checking in, you have put on some serious mass since you started cycling here at AM...

    Great log here (they always are), I will check out your bulker log I missed ASAP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redspy
    It's definitely interesting, my next cycle will consist of test cyp and tren e. Although they're different esters it's interesting to observe the positive effects and side effects.
    That is definitely a good plan. I don't know if I am the best example for Tren. I sure have experienced far fewer side effects than I expected and than I usually do. I am happiest about not getting any hair loss from it. I think I probably would have had to stop if I did (or go bald).

    I think Test E/Tren E would be a perfect bulker for me. I am definitely going to stock up on Tren E first chance I get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr4ytonic
    Wow cardinal just checking in, you have put on some serious mass since you started cycling here at AM...

    Great log here (they always are), I will check out your bulker log I missed ASAP.
    Thanks for stopping by cr4ytonic! Yep, I put on about 50 not so clean pounds on my first bulker. Definitely satisfied with it and am much happier now at 250 than I was back at 180 before cycling here at AM.

    I can't wait to bulk again. This log will probably be my first where I haven't tried to put on muscle mass substantially. It has been a really pleasant strength cycle so far though.

    After this cycle, I'll probably continue to slowly cut naturally until I get to where I can reasonable bulk again. Then it is Tren E + whatever else hehe.
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    June 11, 2005

    Bodyweight: 247

    Workout

    CGBP 225x5
    HS Incline 250x5, 200x8, 180x8
    JM Press 135x9, 135x2x10
    Laterals 30x13
    Tates 35x14, 35x12, 35x11


    Cardio

    Elliptical 45:00

    Notes

    I am up a clear 5 lbs on all my pushing work. Strength is increasing at a rate about half as fast as during week 1-2. That is still plenty for me.

    I am definitely noticing more night sweats. I woke up this afternoon after a nap with quite a bit of wetness around my neck. For better or worse I think I'll keep the dose a bit higher injecting 75mg tren every 24-36 hours for awhile to see if I notice more thermogenic benefits. I must watch it though, as I may run out too fast that way. I'd like to make it a full 8 weeks if possible. I'll have to use a bit of prop to make it that long and I am definitely still losing a lot of hair when I include the prop.
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    June 12, 2005

    Cardio

    Walking/Hiking 135 minutes, moderate pace

    Notes

    Well, after taking stock of how much Tren I actually have, versus how much I would like to have, I seem to have come up a bit short (part of my **** is mixed with prop unfortunately). So I have decided to add 30mg of Superdrol per day for the remainder of my cycle and keep the dose of Tren fairly low (a bit more than 75mg eod). I seem to handle both compounds fairly well, so I don't foresee a big problem here. No doubt I will get a strength boost from the SD.

    The prop I have injected over the last few days sure has made me look a lot fuller and better overall. I really need to work on a way to limit hair loss. If I could that, I think I would be set with prop.
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    June 13, 2005

    Bodyweight: 247

    Workout

    HS High Row 260x6, 280x4
    Chins 247x2x5, 247x4
    Pulldowns 180x8, 120x15
    Curls 60x7, 60x6, 60x7
    Shrugs 185x20


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00 850 kcals

    Notes

    I woke up with a good deal more muscle hardness. Arms measured about an 1/8th inch bigger and the skin was a lot tighter. SD sure is a nice compound for how quickly it starts to work and how good of a cell-volumizer it is.
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    June 14, 2005

    Bodyweight: 246

    Cardio

    Elliptical 63:00, 900 kcals

    Notes

    I am running a short trial with hoodia to see what sort of an effect it has on my appetite. Given its somewhat foul taste, methinks it may prove a decent suppressant.
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    Nice log Cardinal. Cycle looks like it's going well. Keep up the good work.
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    Thanks for the support Cuffs. I appreciate it!
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    June 15, 2005

    Bodyweight: 245

    Workout

    Squats 135x8, 155x8, 175x7, 205x7, 225x4
    Leg Extensions 6 sets


    Cardio

    Elliptical 63:00, 900 kcals

    Notes

    Am waiting on the caps to see about continuing the hoodia. So far I noticed no effect from about 1g/dose I took each day.
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    June 16, 2005

    Cardio

    Elliptical 65:00, 925 kcals
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    June 17, 2005

    Bodyweight: 246
    Blood Pressure: 141/73


    Workout

    CGBP 230x5, 185x9, 185x8
    DB OH Press 70x8, 80x4
    Smith BB OH Press 175x8
    Laterals 30x13, 40x5
    Tates/DB Bench 45x8, 50x8, 55x7, 60x6
    Side Bends 90x20


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 900 kcals

    Notes

    I was at Sam's and decided to have my blood pressure check. As usual the cuff was too small, but it gave a consistent reading as far as I could tell. It was a bit lower than I expected, but still too high for my liking. I have some valsartan coming and I will hopefully be able to start it during my cycle so I can check what sort of an effect an ARB has.

    As usual, I was predictably stronger. Felt like I had all sorts of energy and could lift for hours (with all the BSing I did in the gym today that is about how long it took). I think the SD has kicked in. Its about the right time at day five.

    Regarding the dose of AAS I am using, I will make a report at the end as I have tended to vary it a fair amount. I don't seem to be losing a lot of hair at the moment, so I am stilling going with a lot of prop.

    For better or worse, I am doing my best to eat a bit less, hoping to accelerate fatloss somewhat.
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    June 18, 2005

    Bodyweight: 244

    Cardio

    Elliptical 90:00, 1310 kcals
    Lawn Care 75 minutes moderate activity
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    June 19, 2005

    Bodyweight: 245

    Workout

    Conventional Deads 345x5, 315x7
    Chins 245x2x5
    HS High Rows 200x10, 180x12
    HS Low Rows 200x12, 200x12
    Curls 60x8, 65x4


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 800+ kcals

    Notes

    I got a 10 lb PR on the deadlifts but my form was not good and I was rounding my back too much. Just felts plain too heavy. Next go round I will either just stick with the same weight or maybe work a few singles. My legs shake a heck of a lot on the way up. That is not a problem on reps 2-5. Whole workout sort of felt a bit too heavy. I did finally get another rep on curls though.
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    June 21, 2005

    Bodyweight: 243.5

    Workout

    Incline Bench 135x7, 155x7, 175x7, 195x2x7
    DB OH Press 60x2x8, 60x9
    Pushdowns 30x10, 30x12, 40x10
    Flies 40x15, 40x10


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 850 kcals

    Notes

    Took the day off from cardio yesterday. It felt good to be off and it felt even better to get back to it today. I went with a light workout switching the exercises I normally do substantially. My joints have been giving me a little trouble. I think partly it is due to the lowered cho and calories of late.

    Fat Loss So Far

    I took a waist measurement this morning before breakfast. At about 243.5 lbs, my waist is down to just over 40". So I have lost at least an inch thus far with no noticeable muscle loss at all. Arms are measuring the same size as when I started. What additional fat I lose on this cycle is gravy and will help me move toward my longer term goal of getting a 38" gut. Regardless of whether or not I have built new lbm, I am quite pleased thus far with the recomp effect of what I am taking. I have to say though, I expected this from something like Prop/Tren.
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    June 22, 2005

    Cardio

    Elliptical 65:00, 925 kcals

    Notes

    Still noticing really high energy levels and endurance overall. It will be interesting to see how much of it remains after the cycle is over. I have a tendency to think that a lot of it is just caused by me getting in better cardiovascular condition in general and actually doing daily cardio.
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    June 23, 2005

    Bodyweight: 244

    Workout

    Squats 135x10, 155x10, 175x10, 195x9
    Leg Extensions 50x15, 70x15, 80x2x15, 90x15
    Lunges 30x1


    Cardio

    Elliptical 63:00, 900 kcals
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    June 24, 2005

    Bodyweight: 244

    Cardio

    Elliptical: 65:00, 925 kcals

    Notes

    Going to wait to take any more measurements, but fat loss seems like it is gliding along nicely. I may have to reduce my prop dose again. Hair loss definitely is still a big issue.
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    June 25, 2005

    Bodyweight: 240

    Workout

    Chins 240x2x7
    HS High Row 200x8, 220x8, 240x7
    Isolateral Pulldowns 180x10, 230x6
    Curls 60x7, 55x10, 35x20
    C Curls 35x10


    Cardio

    Elliptical 60:00, 855kcals

    Notes

    Bodyweight is down due to a lack of Test Prop. Had a little insomnia last night. Overall, I just haven't gotten that much insomnia from Tren on this cycle. It could of been b/c I was swallowing hoodia caps like they were candy pretty late in the evening. Not sure if those are even working or not.
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    June 26, 2005

    Bodyweight: 242

    Workout

    CGBP 195x5, 215x6, 235x5, 205x6, 205x5
    DB Bench 80x8
    Incline DB Bench 80x7
    HS Tricep Extensions 100x15, 120x14, 120x15
    Pushdowns 30x2x8


    Cardio

    Elliptical 63:00, 925 kcals

    Notes

    Mood is exceptionally good overall. Not that it is ever all that bad, but I just feel friggin great for some reason.
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    June 27, 2005

    Bodyweight: 242

    Cardio

    Elliptical: 90:00, 1335 kcals

    Notes

    Cardio felt really easy today, so I did a little extra. That and a high general activity level should certainly boost fatloss.
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    June 28, 2005

    Bodyweight: 241

    Workout

    Conventional Deads 135x10, 225x10, 275x10, 315x8
    Squats 135x10, 155x10, 175x10, 195x9
    Leg Extensions 70x14, 90x13, 110x10


    Cardio

    Elliptical 65:00, 925 kcals

    Notes

    Workout went really well. It was definitely tough though. Leg day with deads in there always is. I decided not to load up too much weight on the deadlifts, preferring instead a lighter workout. Squatting felt good to me. Last set was appropriately challenging.

    I didn't feel much like doing cardio after squats, but once I got on the machine it felt fine. My heart rate has only been about 125-130 lately at 65rpm on the elliptical. So it is feeling pretty good overall.

    Nothing much new to report in the way of androgens, except that some of the puffiness has gone away since I dropped out the prop. So far libido is still strong.
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    June 29, 2005

    Bodyweight: 240

    Cardio

    Elliptical 110:00, 1560 kcals

    Notes

    Okay, maybe a little excessive on the cardio. So it goes.

    Although I can't be certain, I think that the appetite suppression from Tren is dose dependent (as it should be). I am down closer to 75mg eod again to make sure I have enough to last me the full cycle and I am experiencing a bit more hunger. Nothing out of control at all, but definitely noticable.
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    June 30, 2005

    Bodyweight: 241

    Workout

    Incline DB 50x10, 65x10, 80x10
    Chins 240x7
    Pullups 240x4
    HS High Rows 200x3x10
    Curls 60x8, 65x4, 50x10, 60x7


    Cardio

    Elliptical 95:00, 1350 kcals

    Notes

    Predictably, after completely dropping out the Prop, my hairloss has all but subsided. The small bit of shedding I am getting now is from low dose Nolva.

    I have a case of runners knee that has been causing some discomfort when I use the elliptical. It seems now though for some reason it is tracking a bit better and not really causing as much pain. I am not complaining about that one.

    Bodyfat

    Waistline is definitely down to 39" now. So I have lost more than 2" so far this cycle. At the pace I am going I should be able to knock of at least another inch by cycles end. I am honestly considering extending the cycle as long as the fat loss is working so well. I know when I hit PCT I will need to be at least at maintenance to ensure proper recovery.
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    July 1, 2005

    Bodyweight: 241

    Cardio

    Elliptical 120:00, 1715 kcals

    Notes

    Did a lot of cardio to bide time more than anything. Looking for a second job at the moment and a girlfriend. Good news is I think I have a shot at both.
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    July 2, 2005

    Bodyweight: 240

    Workout

    CGBP 215x5, 235x5, 225x5
    DB OH Press 60x10, 70x8, 80x4, 60x10, 65x10
    Tate Press 40x10, 50x8, 55x2x6
    Pushdowns 30x15


    Cardio

    Elliptical 122:00, 1700 kcals

    Notes

    Hmmm. It looks like my strength has stabilized a bit. I don't think I am using anywhere near enough drugs
  39. Cutting Sucks!
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    Good log. Man, thats a long freakin time on the elliptical. You've got some serious dedication on the cardio. I get bored to death after 30-45min of it. Good luck with the rest of the cycle. Later, Anthony
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    Anthony:

    You know, I don't think I have ever felt better doing cardio my whole life. It sure is nice to find something easy enough on the joints that I can pretty much do every day. The boredom has been an issue for me, but oddly only when I plan on going a short timeframe, i.e. 30 minutes or so. But that is greatly overshadowed by my reasons for wanting to lose body fat. Additionally, it really seems to make my heart feel better. Definitely has had a positive impact on my heart arrhythmias.

    A year or two ago when I had a pretty bad binge eating disorder, you probably couldn't force me on a cardio machine. I came as close to loathing activity (other than lifting) as I ever have. That slowly changed after I got rid of the disorder. I have since found that I can create enough of a caloric deficit through cardio to lose bodyfat even at pretty high calories (4000+). I wasn't certain if I would ever be comfortable enough dieting to get lean enough to see abs again. It wasn't worth it to me to regain the eating disorder. Fortunately, a deficit isn't at all a deficit and I feel mentally fine on 4000 kcals a day. Very few thoughts of starvation that plagued me for so long. So overall I am pretty happy with what has occurred thusfar.

    I still have a long way to go in terms of actual weightloss, but mentally I am quite comfortable with the situation. I get a bit impatient, but definitely don't feel at all like I am suffering or deprived in any way. So cutting for months legitimately has a different feel for me now than it used to.

    -Cardinal
  

  
 

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