Ostar1ne/Dermacrine 8wk log (1st cycle)

mcmenace

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This is my first real cycle of anything. I have taken most of the natural supplements and have worked out consistently for around 3 years. I work out typically 3 days on and one day off. I hit every body part twice a week. I log all workout routines and will report strength gains.

However around 3 weeks ago I strained my upper back/lower shoulder (teres major) and have not been able to properly work out back since. I had a pretty rough/beneficial thai massage yesterday and although sore feel like it will be better this week. I'm also hoping the ostarine can work some magic in that regard as well.

I will probably not be logging all food, although I may. I have a general idea of what I eat and am consistent with my diet. I'm always looking to gain size but lowering body fat is something I will be working towards.

Stats:
Age: 32
Height: 6'0
Weight: 180
Body Fat: ~13% (Haven't recently measured)

Cycle:
Ostarine 15/15/15/15/20/20/20/20
Elim1nate 0/0/50/50/50/50/50/50
Dermacrine 2/2/3/3/3/3/3/3
CEL Cycle assist 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 (This is half dose)

PCT:
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Ep1c Unleashed - 2 (1 TD/1 Oral)
Eradicate 0/0/3/3/3/2/1

Other Supplements: Fish Oil, Garlic, Beef Liver, Vitamin D, Ashwagandha, ZMA, GABA, Creatine
 
unreal89

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I figure you already bought everything eradicate was trash though
 

mcmenace

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I figure you already bought everything eradicate was trash though
Do you think eliminate is a better choice in place of eradicate for PCT? I had eradicate from a long time ago but eliminate isn't much cost wise.
 

mcmenace

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Day 1: Applied Dermacrine after morning shower and took 15mg of ostar1ne plus garlic/fish oil/cycle assist after my breakfast shake (6 egg whites, cup of oats, banana and almond milk). I'm not 100% due to a sore back/shoulder and a slight fever possibly from a thai massage this weekend. Had many knots in my back and she really worked them out leaving me bruised and my rear shoulder still tender. Today will be Leg/Shoulder day. I workout in the evenings.
 
Vikingbro

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Subbed and good luck. Looks very much like the cycle I will be following soon
 

mcmenace

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Appreciate the subs.

Day 2: Unfortunately due to an unforeseen fever I was unable to lift on Day 1. I don't credit this to ostar1ne or dermacrine at all. I believe I was getting a fever and after a thai massage it accelerated the toxins in my body. (I had a lot of knots in my back/shoulder) My shoulder pain is still there but I feel it's getting better. I haven't been able to work out back in almost a month excluding a super light workout I did last week. I have all intentions to go to the gym today to make up for the missed Legs/Shoulders yesterday. I have only missed a handful of days at the gym in the past 3 years and unfortunately the timing couldn't be worse.

Since starting ostar1ne yesterday I have felt a odd feeling on the backside of my legs opposite the knees. (both sides) It's not painful so much as annoying and I can't say for sure that ostar1ne is the cause, just that I've never felt this before and it started at the same time. I will probably add joint support to my regime as well I started taking Turmeric again at night.
 

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Day 2 Update: Ended up making it to the gym for Legs/Shoulders. I made sure I didn't have a fever and this was my first time in the gym since Friday. Despite a hurt shoulder/congestion it was actually a great workout. The massage really brought out some soreness I didn't realize I had. Skipping squats and opting for Leg Press I was able to push myself through the setbacks. I sweated like crazy and attribute that to getting over a sickness opposed to dermacrine/ostarine. All and all it was a productive gym session and foam rolling stretching got rid of the feeling I was having below my hamstring, above my calf. I believe it was just tight, not sure if ostarine contributed. Tomorrow I will hit chest/tricep. I'm currently covered in TIger Balm trying to speed up the healing of my shoulder (possibly terum major), I think it's improving but I will wait to work out back until sure.
 

mcmenace

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Day 3: Last night I had a very hard time going to sleep. This isn't something new to me as I believe my pre workout at 6pm (prejym) makes it hard for me to sleep around 12-1 am. I have recently ordered triumph and conquer stim-free to hopefully combat this. I took ZMA, GABA, Turmeric and Bioperine around 11:45pm and then took zzzquil around 12:15. Although I got a little drowsy I was still fairly awake at 1. Around 1:30 I got a VERY weird sensation over my body. It was very similar to a "Niacin Flush" in which it feels like an odd tingly feeling as if my body is flushing itself. I would love someone to weigh in on this. It could be a combination of a lot of things. I ordered a few supplements yesterday for helping with sleep. (lemon balm, valerian root) as I don't really like taking zzzquil to sleep. I work up a little tired but all and all feel good.

Same schedule, dermacrine with morning shower and ostarine at 10 with cycle assist, garlic, fish oil. I feel like my shoulder is getting better everyday. Today will be Chest/Tricep. I don't feel any pain in my rear shoulder when doing pushing movements. I will probably go in for another deep tissue massage and either work back out very light this week or possibly swimming. It's killing me not being able to work out back.
 
Toren

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Day 2 Update: Ended up making it to the gym for Legs/Shoulders. I made sure I didn't have a fever and this was my first time in the gym since Friday. Despite a hurt shoulder/congestion it was actually a great workout. The massage really brought out some soreness I didn't realize I had. Skipping squats and opting for Leg Press I was able to push myself through the setbacks. I sweated like crazy and attribute that to getting over a sickness opposed to dermacrine/ostarine. All and all it was a productive gym session and foam rolling stretching got rid of the feeling I was having below my hamstring, above my calf. I believe it was just tight, not sure if ostarine contributed. Tomorrow I will hit chest/tricep. I'm currently covered in TIger Balm trying to speed up the healing of my shoulder (possibly terum major), I think it's improving but I will wait to work out back until sure.
Nice work on pushing through even though you're not feeling the best. I would guess it was just a coincidence on the leg tightness. I can't see a couple days of Ostarine causing any muscle issues.

Day 3: Last night I had a very hard time going to sleep. This isn't something new to me as I believe my pre workout at 6pm (prejym) makes it hard for me to sleep around 12-1 am. I have recently ordered triumph and conquer stim-free to hopefully combat this. I took ZMA, GABA, Turmeric and Bioperine around 11:45pm and then took zzzquil around 12:15. Although I got a little drowsy I was still fairly awake at 1. Around 1:30 I got a VERY weird sensation over my body. It was very similar to a "Niacin Flush" in which it feels like an odd tingly feeling as if my body is flushing itself. I would love someone to weigh in on this. It could be a combination of a lot of things. I ordered a few supplements yesterday for helping with sleep. (lemon balm, valerian root) as I don't really like taking zzzquil to sleep. I work up a little tired but all and all feel good.

Same schedule, dermacrine with morning shower and ostarine at 10 with cycle assist, garlic, fish oil. I feel like my shoulder is getting better everyday. Today will be Chest/Tricep. I don't feel any pain in my rear shoulder when doing pushing movements. I will probably go in for another deep tissue massage and either work back out very light this week or possibly swimming. It's killing me not being able to work out back.
Good idea on switching to a stim-free pwo; hopefully it helps with your sleep concerns. I don't notice any immediate contraindications with any of the stuff you're taking around bed time so I can't really speak to the flushing. I get it from time to time but it usually on lasts a few minutes and then it passes. There is no other symptom that comes with it so I just don't worry about it. I'm sure you know that GABA can cause a niacin-like flushing, but this usually happens within a few minutes of taking it and the effects lessen with continued usage. It definitely helps me with sleep but I find I can build a tolerance to it so I like to cycle it when it is part of my current supplement regimen. I found valerian and lemon balm to be very mild/weak with helping in the sleep department. I could take valerian like candy and it did nothing. I stoped using it years ago.

The best combo I have found is low-dosed Melatonin with 5-HTP and L-Theanine. Gaba can add to this if need be. They do make supplements with the three of them combined. Again, when I use daily, I build a tolerance so it's best to use only when necessary.

Another thing that can keep you awake at night is eating a meal before bed or taking too many supplements. Your body has to process this stuff and your core temperature naturally rises a bit when digesting food. I try and keep my pre-bed intake to a banana and some protein at the most and preferably at least 30 minutes before laying down.

Just to add to my last thought, avoid up-close bright lights (computer/phone/tv) before bed. The bright light (blue spectrum) can disrupt/destroy the melatonin production within our bodies. Another thing to consider is using an app on your electronic device that changes the white/blue spectrum lights to a more red/amber variety at night. This is supposed to help with sleep or at the very least, not disrupt it as much. I really need to get into a better habit myself and cut out the electronics before bed. I think I will go back to doing some old school reading before bed to help my body wind down in a non-intrusive way.
 

mcmenace

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Great reply as usual and much appreciated. It is very possible it was the GABA with the bioperine. I've always avoided melatonin based on the few things I have read on it. I'm hoping the stimulants in the pre workout is the culprit as I've had this issue since I started this day shift job a few months ago and work out at night. I have looked into 5-HTP and will look into adding that. Also good call on the app that changes lights. I also probably eat too close to bed, now that I'm typing things out I'm doing a lot of things wrong, lol.

One question I have is I've noticed I feel a little warmer than normal. I tested my temperature but it is around 97-98 however I feel like my head is warmer. Is this a "side effect" of ostarine?
 
Toren

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Great reply as usual and much appreciated. It is very possible it was the GABA with the bioperine. I've always avoided melatonin based on the few things I have read on it. I'm hoping the stimulants in the pre workout is the culprit as I've had this issue since I started this day shift job a few months ago and work out at night. I have looked into 5-HTP and will look into adding that. Also good call on the app that changes lights. I also probably eat too close to bed, now that I'm typing things out I'm doing a lot of things wrong, lol.

One question I have is I've noticed I feel a little warmer than normal. I tested my temperature but it is around 97-98 however I feel like my head is warmer. Is this a "side effect" of ostarine?
I definitely do a lot of things as well that are counterproductive to good sleep. Every once in a while we all have to do some accounting of ourselves and reset a bit.

I can't say I've ever noticed that effect. I do notice that Osta makes me sweat a bit more. When I take a dose before bed, I usually tend to sweat a bit in my sleep, although there could be plenty of things causing that. Have you checked your blood pressure recently? For some people osta raises BP a bit and Hawthorne (Cycle Assist) initially raises BP as well, before it eventually helps to lower it. An increase in BP leading to a hypertensive state may cause a full or warm sensation in your head. It certainly does for me anyway.

You have added a bunch of new supplements though so your body will need time to adjust anyway. You may feel or notice things more when you are being extra cautious in a hyper-sensitive state. I think the combination of using your first hormonal compounds, as well as taking new supplements will initially add to the constant flux your body is in. I'm definitely hyper-sensitive to new stuff when I first start taking it, then after a day or a few days, it fades into the background.
 

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Day 4: Yesterday was Chest/Triceps and I felt great in the gym. Nothing extraordinary however being back in the gym and feeling better overall is refreshing. My back/shoulder feels a lot better today and although I'm not sure I will be able to work back this week I feel like I will be able to sooner than later. Today will be an off day and tomorrow will either be back/biceps or some sort of light back movement with biceps.

I changed/added some supplements and it really made a difference. I took my turmeric with some fat sources and bioperine a couple hours before bed and then I took Valerium Root, Lemon Balm, Ashwaganda and ZMA. I decided to not take GABA. That combination gave me a nice calming effect and although I didn't go right to bed I did feel the effects. Once I switch out my pre workout I believe sleep will be of little issue. Looking forward to being a couple weeks in but taking everything one day at a time.
 

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Day 5: Yesterday was a rest day, nothing new to report. Slept much better with new regime. Today I will try and see if my back is good enough to do a light workout. I will also be doing biceps. My hamstrings are very sore from leg day on tuesday. I also did 20 minutes on the stairs after chest day so that could also be a factor.
 
Toren

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Dma378, get in here bro. I know you enjoyed your first Ostarine run and could contribute some great info. I know yates84 and CJNator have also run Ostarine. I can't for the life of me remember anybody else that ran Ostarine in the past...
 
unreal89

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I ran osta but didn't log but also had 30 mg andarine and lgd 10 mg with it so I couldn't say osta did anything
 

mcmenace

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The more the merrier, this is all new to me but thankfully the support on this forum is very helpful.

Day 5 update: Just finished my first actual back workout in 4 weeks. Although I did very light I was able to complete it without pain, which for me is a huge step in the right direction. I'm still icing it and taking it slow but I'm confident it's finally healing.
 

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Day 6: Off work, so same morning routine and then gym around 1:00. I added tr1umph to my pwo and will be taking conquer stimulant-free on weekdays. Today was legs/shoulders and although my legs are a little sore from last week I had no problem pushing around 5+lbs over my standard, comfortably. I am not going 100% on shoulders to give my injury some additional rest. Looking forward to going into week 2, overall feel pretty good.
 
Toren

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Day 6: Off work, so same morning routine and then gym around 1:00. I added tr1umph to my pwo and will be taking conquer stimulant-free on weekdays. Today was legs/shoulders and although my legs are a little sore from last week I had no problem pushing around 5+lbs over my standard, comfortably. I am not going 100% on shoulders to give my injury some additional rest. Looking forward to going into week 2, overall feel pretty good.
Feeling good makes for a good start. Week two should be good but if things work out for you, week 3/4 and beyond will be that much better.
 

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Day 7: Off work on weekends. Same schedule, went to gym around 1:30 pm and worked chest/triceps. Kind of felt lazy today but still did normal numbers, nothing above. Tomorrow will be a rest day and looking forward to starting week 2.

Question: Any benefit to start taking el1minate early as opposed to benefit of waiting until week 3?
 
Toren

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Day 7: Off work on weekends. Same schedule, went to gym around 1:30 pm and worked chest/triceps. Kind of felt lazy today but still did normal numbers, nothing above. Tomorrow will be a rest day and looking forward to starting week 2.

Question: Any benefit to start taking el1minate early as opposed to benefit of waiting until week 3?
The El1minate (Arimistane) will help you drop some water weight and increase vascularity a bit. For me the effects are pretty quick but they only go so far, so visualy speaking, they seem to fade. Starting at week 3 gives you 6 straight weeks of it (and some more at the end of PCT - Eradicate), so it's probably enough of it in that time period.

You can start it early if you feel there is a need. I think you will really like the Ostarine/Arimistane combo in weeks 3/4. When the two of them kick in together, I really dig what it does for me in the mirror.
 

mcmenace

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The El1minate (Arimistane) will help you drop some water weight and increase vascularity a bit. For me the effects are pretty quick but they only go so far, so visualy speaking, they seem to fade. Starting at week 3 gives you 6 straight weeks of it (and some more at the end of PCT - Eradicate), so it's probably enough of it in that time period.

You can start it early if you feel there is a need. I think you will really like the Ostarine/Arimistane combo in weeks 3/4. When the two of them kick in together, I really dig what it does for me in the mirror.
Sounds good. I was tempted to start it this week but if there wasn't an actual point I didn't want to. I'm also considering dropping eradicate on PCT and going for Super PCT.
 
Toren

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Sounds good. I was tempted to start it this week but if there wasn't an actual point I didn't want to. I'm also considering dropping eradicate on PCT and going for Super PCT.
Cool. Sup3r PCT is a better all around PCT supplement for sure. It has Arimistane in it as well.
 

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Day 8: Nothing to report, Monday was a rest day, feel good overall.

Day 9: Today will be back/biceps. Still recovering from my muscle strain and hope to do a little more weight this time for back, still not going overboard.
 

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Day 10: Yesterday was back/biceps and I'm still only able to do around ~50lbs on pulldowns due to my back. That really puts me in a demotivated state. It was also the first day I used a non-stimulated pre workout. I'm using conquer and triumph stacked pwo and to be honest it didn't give me any pump. Possibly because I'm use to the caffeine but I was pretty sluggish at the gym yesterday. On a plus side I had NO issues falling asleep. Today will be legs/shoulders and I'm going to really try and push myself through the tiredness and get use to not having caffeine pwo.
 
Dma378

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I don't get a good pump from non stim PWO either. Even with all the fancy "pump" products in there. Stims give me a pump. Hydration and carbs give me a pump with stims.

Glad to hear you got some good rest bro.
 

mcmenace

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I don't get a good pump from non stim PWO either. Even with all the fancy "pump" products in there. Stims give me a pump. Hydration and carbs give me a pump with stims.

Glad to hear you got some good rest bro.
Yeah, first time I've used a non-stim pwo and I wasn't impressed. It could have been my overall demeanor but I definitely didn't get that energy that caffeine gives. To be honest I didn't realize how much energy the stimulants gave me until one day without them. Going to continue on the non-stim, at least for now, and hopefully a better sleep schedule will give me the natural energy I need.
 
Dma378

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Yeah, first time I've used a non-stim pwo and I wasn't impressed. It could have been my overall demeanor but I definitely didn't get that energy that caffeine gives. To be honest I didn't realize how much energy the stimulants gave me until one day without them. Going to continue on the non-stim, at least for now, and hopefully a better sleep schedule will give me the natural energy I need.
I tried to stop all stims a couple months ago. Was planning a whole month, lasted about 5 days. It was the constant slight headache and achiness in upper back and neck. Like seriously coming off drugs!! So I relapsed.
 

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I tried to stop all stims a couple months ago. Was planning a whole month, lasted about 5 days. It was the constant slight headache and achiness in upper back and neck. Like seriously coming off drugs!! So I relapsed.
I can easily see that happening to me. I haven't experienced headaches although I only had caffeine in my pwo, no sodas. I have nothing against the stims I just know its the culprit for me not going to bed until 2am every night and I work in the a.m. I already miss them but hopefully when the 3rd week of this osta starts I will have some extra motivation.
 

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Day 11: Yesterday was Legs/Shoulders and I had a great workout. Still adapting to the non-stimulated pre and can't really speak for the effectiveness of triumph/conquer yet but mentally I was there. Feeling good physically and really prepping myself to push myself as much as I can weeks 3-8. On a side note I'm falling asleep earlier than ever.
 
UncleSarm

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Day 11: Yesterday was Legs/Shoulders and I had a great workout. Still adapting to the non-stimulated pre and can't really speak for the effectiveness of triumph/conquer yet but mentally I was there. Feeling good physically and really prepping myself to push myself as much as I can weeks 3-8. On a side note I'm falling asleep earlier than ever.
Following your log. I finished a 6 week Osta cycle at 25mg. I didn't have any sides and, yeah, physically felt really good. On week three you should feel some strength increase. I hit it towards the end of week three and it felt like a nice kick.
 

mcmenace

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Following your log. I finished a 6 week Osta cycle at 25mg. I didn't have any sides and, yeah, physically felt really good. On week three you should feel some strength increase. I hit it towards the end of week three and it felt like a nice kick.
It is much appreciated, I definitely look forward to the third week. I've read through your log a couple of times and I really like your approach. Any feedback or experience you wish to share is always welcome.
 
UncleSarm

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It is much appreciated, I definitely look forward to the third week. I've read through your log a couple of times and I really like your approach. Any feedback or experience you wish to share is always welcome.
The only recommendation I would make is to get bloods, if you can. While Nolva is the conventional wisdom, bloods tell you exactly where you are without having to guess, and they gave me the option of going down the OTC route. I have anything against Nolva. I think it has its place, but it does place additional stress on your body. If I don't have to add that stress to my body, then I would choose not to. I think in my specific case, after seeing lab results, it would have been an unnecessary stress.
I think that the lower the stress I put my body through on a cycle, the sooner it can be back at 100%, ready for another cycle. And I'm not just talking test levels, I'm talking test, liver, kidneys, etc.
 

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UncleSarm, great advice and knowing for sure is much better than going off of feel alone.

Day 11: Rest day, legs surprisingly not very sore. Although typically the second day is worse my legs always feel more doms than other groups.

Day 12: Chest/Tricep day. Decided to take stimulated pre on fri/sat since no work on weekends. That's why I'm writing this at 1:30 am. :) Great workout, last 2 workouts have been great. Giving everything every time I step into the gym the rest of the cycle and beyond. Will eventually update with progress pictures. Physically feel great. Recovery seems a little quicker and still waiting for my back to get better. Will be doing light back tomorrow.
 
Toren

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Looks like it's going well. Have you noticed an increase in workout pump or vascularity yet? Notice any increase in energy or libido from the Dermacrine or are you just feeling good overall?
 
UncleSarm

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UncleSarm, great advice and knowing for sure is much better than going off of feel alone.

Day 11: Rest day, legs surprisingly not very sore. Although typically the second day is worse my legs always feel more doms than other groups.

Day 12: Chest/Tricep day. Decided to take stimulated pre on fri/sat since no work on weekends. That's why I'm writing this at 1:30 am. :) Great workout, last 2 workouts have been great. Giving everything every time I step into the gym the rest of the cycle and beyond. Will eventually update with progress pictures. Physically feel great. Recovery seems a little quicker and still waiting for my back to get better. Will be doing light back tomorrow.
Hehehe!! But I see you are already noticing the ... *feel*. :thumbsup:

I loved my Osta cycle. No matter how hard I worked out, I was never sore the next day. I had a shoulder that had been nagging me for a couple of months and it resolved itself in less than a week. Can't wait to do another cycle.
 

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Looks like it's going well. Have you noticed an increase in workout pump or vascularity yet? Notice any increase in energy or libido from the Dermacrine or are you just feeling good overall?
Not a lot more vascularity yet although I'm somewhat vascular already. Pumps in the sense of being able to lift forever. After a grueling workout and a few minutes I feel as if I could lift again... if i had to. Also recovery seems on point. Really looking forward to the third week.
 

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Hehehe!! But I see you are already noticing the ... *feel*. :thumbsup:

I loved my Osta cycle. No matter how hard I worked out, I was never sore the next day. I had a shoulder that had been nagging me for a couple of months and it resolved itself in less than a week. Can't wait to do another cycle.
Starting to feel the exact same way although I'm still having a little soreness in my Terem Major that prevents me from going heavy for back, really hoping this helps that process of healing.
 
unreal89

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Hell yes keep it going bro the dermacrine helps alot
 
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Yo haven't used either solo, right?
 

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Day 13: Saturday was back/bicep day. As I'm still recovering on back I can still only go very light ~50lbs on pull downs/rows. I really think it should be healing better by now so I may go see a specialist if it doesn't soon. I was hoping ostarine would be a solution but I can't say for sure that it's helping.

Day 14: Rest day, nothing new to report.

Day 15: Today will be legs/shoulders and I added in the eliminate as well as upped the dermacrine to 3 pumps instead of 2. I also chose to add in a joint support (zenwise) to help alleviate any potential of drying out my joints. Plan on really pushing it today as I have been, keeping up the intensity.
 

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Day 16: Yesterday was Legs/Shoulders and although I was able to put up the same weight I wasn't exactly feeling stronger. I think non-stimulated pre is making a huge difference as I honestly can't feel anything with Triumph/Conquer. I'll keep on cycle and pushing through but I am really anxious to feel something more. Hopefully this week into the 4th week will make a bigger impact in my training/overall strength.
 

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Day 17: Chest/Triceps, had a pretty great workout. Ended up working out with an experienced lifter for chest. Working out with someone knew that goes hard is always beneficial. Definitely pushed myself the entire workout. Crazily enough after the brutal chest workout was said and done I felt like I could keep working out. No real soreness the next day, just slightly.

Day 18: Back/Biceps, still can't go heavy on back however I focused a lot on the muscle contraction and did what I could. For biceps I followed a pretty intense routine. 50 Reps straight bar non stop, 25 reps each arm dumbbell, 5 sets of 28's (7 full, 7 slow, 7 top, 7 bottom) and then finished it off with 3 x 30 machine preacher and 1 x 50. I'm just trying to mix it up and my arms were spent EXCEPT I still felt as if I could keep going after a little rest. Next day I felt minimal soreness.

I took out the joint support and substitued in Orange Triad for the multi/joint support aspect. I also started taking cissus which I've seen great things about. I'm getting another thai massage today as it's a rest day and doing what I can to recover so I can hit back properly.
 
Toren

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Quicker recovery from workouts is definitely a benefit of taking performance enhancing substances. It just means you can keep pushing yourself in search of that next day and day after soreness! :] Make sure you add in some lower-rep power movements with all that volume to keep the muscle guessing and stimulate maximum growth

I've always wanted to try Cissus for my joints but haven't gotten around to it yet. I can't remember exactly what it is, but I believe there is a specific type of contraindication with Cissus and another substance. I remember somebody on this forum suggesting to avoid taking Cissus with something in particular but I can't remember what exactly that is. Maybe somebody else will chime in and spot me on this one.

Keep us posted on how the recovery feels with the combo of Ostarine (which should start getting good soon) and Cissus.
 
Toren

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Any weight gain or loss yet? What are you hitting for daily cals and are you below, at, or above maintenance most days?
 

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