KLEEN gets Lean w/ GHAR1NE & RADAR1NE!!! (Olympus Labs UK Sponsored)

[MrKleen73]

Well Hello Everyone! Has been a while since I actually logged a product. I didn't have any plans of it but the new stuff from Olympus Labs UK just proved to be too exciting for me to sit back and not experience. I want to thank the OlympusLabs team for sponsoring this run.

I will give you all a little but about each product to help set up expectations.
RADAR1NE - A highly anabolic SARM, touting what looks to be the most anabolic ratio of the SARMS that I have seen before. Characteristics thus far seem to lean toward extreme glycogen retention creating quick size gains, and all day pumps.

GHAR1NE - A non peptide based GH secretagogue - it increases GH, and IGF-1 levels greatly. Aids in lbm gains, fat loss, healing, and a plethora of other body functions. I am using it for the healing and fat loss aspects the most.

Dosing Plans -
RADAR1NE - Weeks 1-2 = 4mg, Weeks 3-4 = 8mg, and Weeks 5-6 = 12mg - I will stick with this unless I end up getting a second bottle.
GHAR1NE - Weeks 1-2 10mg, Weeks 3-5 20mg and 30mg for the remaining caps.

So let's get into this a bit. Those of you who know me know I was an Olympus Labs rep for a while before life got to hectic and I had to take a break. However I assure you that my having been a rep will not have any bearing on my opinion of the product.

Well I ended up taking a break from lifting and dieting as well. I got out of shape in a bad way. Gained about 20lbs of fat and lost some muscle in the process. By February I was bouncing between 225 & 230 and looking sloppy! Since then I started lifting again and gradually got some muscle back and lost a little fat. About 5-6 weeks ago I was in better shape but still about 227 and quite soft and jiggly for my taste. I started training with more athletic performance based training, working on speed, explosiveness, strength and stamina at that time and concentrated a little more on nutrition. Since then I have dropped to 210.3 and strength is coming up. I think I have already been through the initial bounce back regarding gaining lean mass from muscle memory since it has been several months of training now.

Specific Goals - Fat Loss, Increased Stamina, Increased Performance, Improved Composition and Recovery. I will not complain with a few added LBM however fat loss, composition & performance will be the main goals.

Current Training - 3 main training days each week. Each day is a whole body workout focusing on different aspects for each group of each workout. Very athletic based, including sled drags, medicine ball work, sprints, time tested mile runs, time tested complexes. A minimum of 2 days a week is spent on conditioning work. Again that will be sled drags, sprints, weighted carries, car pushes, battle ropes, medicine balls and occasionally LISS. My "off days" tend to rotate around my 3 main training days. Sometimes they are mid week on Tuesday or Thursday and sometimes they are on the weekend. I tend to do things with my daughter on the weekend to help her train for gymnastics so often my rest days end up during the week. I also change the days of my lifts depending on what is going on around me. So basically My normal workout may be set for Mon-Wed-Frim but I may end up doing Tuesday-Thurs-Sat, or any combination there of. So long as each week I get my 3 main training sessions in.

Nutrition - I am working on dialing in my nutrition. I have tons of knowledge in that regard but have never really trained for athleticism and thus I have to find my optimal macro ratio for performance gains while leaning up. So far I have been able to increase carbohydrates a bit. I will continue adjusting in order to keep both performance and fat loss as efficient as possible. I have a challenge I am participating in that I need to have my top 4 abs visible by Halloween so being lean is the biggest focus.

Pictures and Updates - I will take some pictures tonight or tomorrow for my beginning pics and will post up progress photos at least every two weeks. As I get leaner pictures will become more frequent as my confidence increases. I will also more than likely start videoing some of my training. When I put my beginning pics up I will post them here as well.

Current Stats as of 8/23/15 -
210.3lbs
Lifts I have tested recently -
Max Floor Press - 315
Max Box Squat - 465
Max Conventional Dead Lift 435
Max Sumo DL - 435
Max Weighted Chin Up - +90lbs
100m sprint 15.7 seconds
Broad Jump 8'10"

These are just for reference points of lifts I have tested in the last few weeks since starting the Garage Gym Gladiator coaching by Zach Even-esh! Since I am working on cutting up I want to track some lifts to make sure I am not losing strength. I am hoping with the assistance of the RADAR1NE and GHAR1NE I will see some strength gains. I am also very tempted to add in CARDAR1NE, and may go ahead and get a second bottle of RAD if I do.

I will take my first dose of both products tonight.

 

[MrKleen73]

Pics and Updates

Will post pictures and other stats here as they are captured.

Okay ladies and gentlemen, as promised here are some pics of where I am right now current weight as of Sunday was 210.3 these pics are no pump or anything. I am at a point where a little fat loss should make a pretty big difference. I am still on the come back and this is a big improvement from before. Hard to put them up when you aren't proud of where you are. However when a man says he will post pics he should do it even if it is embarrassing.

]

 

[Dma378]

First!!!! Time to get schooled.

 

[love2liftkat]

Dang! So close! First chick! Lol

 

[bluems10]

subbed. Def interested in this!

 

[MrKleen73]

First!!!! Time to get schooled.

Awesome to have you in here Daniel! Hoping to get some good results like you. I know you have a higher dose to run but curious was I can do with what I have here. I will probably end up getting at least one more bottle of RADAR1NE to bump things up earlier and maybe take that portion into an 8 week run.

Dang! So close! First chick! Lol

Yep first Chick and one of the best!

I forgot to mention above in the body of the original post but I am on doctor prescribed TRT at 150mg per week so there will be no PCT, or conversation regarding getting shut down in this log. A little bit of an idea of my training style, this is what is on tap for tonight. However I will probably do it tomorrow because my knee is bitching from sprints this weekend.

1 - Burgener Warmup - Oly Lifts broken into pieces of the movements done in a circuit to warm up the entire body. x 5 minutes

2 - Super Set
Double Kettlebell Squats - 10,8,6,4,2
Lunge Jumps - 10,8,6,4,2

Tested Lift
3 - Sumo Deadlift - 3,2,1,1,1,10 - Find Max then back weight down for a heavy set of 10

4 - Kettlebell Swing - 1 x 5:00 @ MAX Swings (keep count for records)

5 - Mobility Cool Down - Foam Rolling - 1 x 6:00

As you can see each training session has one tested exercise whether it be a heavy lift, or a timed effort like a complex, sprints, a mile run, you name it I will be testing some aspect of fitness every planned workout from Garage Gym Gladiators. Over the next 6 weeks we should be able to see some performance gains via the tested lifts.

The schedule lift tonight is going to end up being done tomorrow I think because of my knee. Instead I may just do some other form of conditioning.

 

[mixedup]

Very very interested....

 

[Toren]

First! (not including all of the people above me)

Good luck with your run.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Wow I thought I would be first...

 

[liftingamber12]

In!!

 

[Hyde]

Holla

 

[yates84]

In! Can't wait to hear your thoughts on these

 

[clown007]

Sub'd!

 

[puccah8808]

I'm here, we can party now.

 

[rascal14]

I feel like I'm going to learn so much more being apart of this than I am paying thousands of dollars for classes!! Lol

 

[delsolrob]

it's been a long time, old friend!

In for the ride!

 

[RegisterJr]

I'm in.

 

[puccah8808]

See how much love you get, Kleen?

Selfie time!

 

[turff49]

What she said!!

 

[gagandugan]

Let's see what Radarine can do.

 

[wasme]

In, just let me get my hand out of Puccah's panties... :yup:

 

[Hastur]

I love me some Rad! Subbed!

 

[BigRed1974]

In!

 

[Lucianooo]

In

 

[edje007]

Hey big guy.....sure you'll love these Olympus UK products.

I command you to grow

 

[IronAddiction]

I'm here and looking forward to the log brother.

 

[warpyfunch]

Dosing Plans -
RADAR1NE - Weeks 1-2 = 4mg, Weeks 3-4 = 8mg, and Weeks 5-6 = 12mg - I will stick with this unless I end up getting a second bottle.
GHAR1NE - Weeks 1-2 10mg, Weeks 3-5 20mg and 30mg for the remaining caps.

Been using ghar1ne for about 5 weeks now, and honestly I wish I had stayed longer at 10mg before going up to 20mg. I did 2 weeks at 10mg, like you are planning, and then got impatient and jumped up to 20mg. I take huperzine a and egcg, but I still definitely feel like a tolerance develops. I think I could have gotten benefits from 10mg for another 1-2 weeks before increasing, thus maximizing the time before that tolerance sets in.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Been using ghar1ne for about 5 weeks now, and honestly I wish I had stayed longer at 10mg before going up to 20mg. I did 2 weeks at 10mg, like you are planning, and then got impatient and jumped up to 20mg. I take huperzine a and egcg, but I still definitely feel like a tolerance develops. I think I could have gotten benefits from 10mg for another 1-2 weeks before increasing, thus maximizing the time before that tolerance sets in.

Maybe some of the effects there might be some kind of tolerance going on. Many of the positive effects would be more noticed over a longer period of time. The question would be would increasing dosage faster have any effect on the longer term advantages, would it speed things up any?

 

[yates84]

Maybe some of the effects there might be some kind of tolerance going on. Many of the positive effects would be more noticed over a longer period of time. The question would be would increasing dosage faster have any effect on the longer term advantages, would it speed things up any?

Nope. I would ride as low a dose as possible for as long as possible. Positive effects can be seen from gharine at 10mg in the beginning. I jumped on 20mg too soon myself and the lethargy was unbearable. I think it had a lot to do with my diet as well but still, see how long 10mg can be effective. You will know when you need to up your dose just by how you sleep and numbness in hands upon waking

 

[warpyfunch]

Maybe some of the effects there might be some kind of tolerance going on. Many of the positive effects would be more noticed over a longer period of time. The question would be would increasing dosage faster have any effect on the longer term advantages, would it speed things up any?

The way I've been lead to understand it is that it has to do with somatostatin increasing over time. More GH leads to more somatostatin, which in turn starts inhibiting the release of GH. Huperzine a and egcg might do a little to inhibit somatostatin, but it will happen regardless eventually. That makes it seem to me like the best way to maximize the run would be to use the lowest effective dosage for as long as possible before increasing. You can only increase the dosage two or three times before it starts becoming cost prohibitive, so once you start getting desensitized at 30-40mg, that's pretty much it, I think. I would think that increasing the dosage faster would only lead to faster desensitization.

 

[DreamWeaver]

The way I've been lead to understand it is that it has to do with somatostatin increasing over time. More GH leads to more somatostatin, which in turn starts inhibiting the release of GH. Huperzine a and egcg might do a little to inhibit somatostatin, but it will happen regardless eventually. That makes it seem to me like the best way to maximize the run would be to use the lowest effective dosage for as long as possible before increasing. You can only increase the dosage two or three times before it starts becoming cost prohibitive, so once you start getting desensitized at 30-40mg, that's pretty much it, I think. I would think that increasing the dosage faster would only lead to faster desensitization.

ok I get it, I was thinking more of a situation like mine where I can only use it for about 2 months as it is supposed to cause water retention. I would definitely rethink it if I could run it longer, but I am in prep.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Nope. I would ride as low a dose as possible for as long as possible. Positive effects can be seen from gharine at 10mg in the beginning. I jumped on 20mg too soon myself and the lethargy was unbearable. I think it had a lot to do with my diet as well but still, see how long 10mg can be effective. You will know when you need to up your dose just by how you sleep and numbness in hands upon waking

Ok that is good information.

 

[Hastur]

Been using ghar1ne for about 5 weeks now, and honestly I wish I had stayed longer at 10mg before going up to 20mg. I did 2 weeks at 10mg, like you are planning, and then got impatient and jumped up to 20mg. I take huperzine a and egcg, but I still definitely feel like a tolerance develops. I think I could have gotten benefits from 10mg for another 1-2 weeks before increasing, thus maximizing the time before that tolerance sets in.

The way I've been lead to understand it is that it has to do with somatostatin increasing over time. More GH leads to more somatostatin, which in turn starts inhibiting the release of GH. Huperzine a and egcg might do a little to inhibit somatostatin, but it will happen regardless eventually. That makes it seem to me like the best way to maximize the run would be to use the lowest effective dosage for as long as possible before increasing. You can only increase the dosage two or three times before it starts becoming cost prohibitive, so once you start getting desensitized at 30-40mg, that's pretty much it, I think. I would think that increasing the dosage faster would only lead to faster desensitization.

I'm not sure what you mean by tolerance, but that is definitely not what occurs to individuals in the available studies. There are 100 studies regarding MK-677 on PubMed, you will see that dosages of 25mg for up to 2 years were used without tolerance occurring, your GH remains elevated above baseline and IGF-1 appears to continue to increase for AT LEAST a year with daily dosing. So to say that 5 weeks is enough to cause tolerance contradicts what studies are telling us in a much larger sample of the population. If a somatostatin increase occurred to the point of tolerance within 5 weeks the studies would have shown that, but they don't. Again, we have studies showing that chronic dosing of 25mg for 2 years remains effective. You don't have to continuously up the dosage to see effects, effects are seen over a long span of time with MK-677, much longer than just 5 weeks. You will not become desensitized to it, this simply does not occur.

 

[warpyfunch]

I'm not sure what you mean by tolerance, but that is definitely not what occurs to individuals in the available studies. There are 100 studies regarding MK-677 on PubMed, you will see that dosages of 25mg for up to 2 years were used without tolerance occurring, your GH remains elevated above baseline and IGF-1 appears to continue to increase for AT LEAST a year with daily dosing. So to say that 5 weeks is enough to cause tolerance contradicts what studies are telling us in a much larger sample of the population. If a somatostatin increase occurred to the point of tolerance within 5 weeks the studies would have shown that, but they don't. Again, we have studies showing that chronic dosing of 25mg for 2 years remains effective. You don't have to continuously up the dosage to see effects, effects are seen over a long span of time with MK-677, much longer than just 5 weeks. You will not become desensitized to it, this simply does not occur.

I stand corrected!

 

[Hastur]

I stand corrected!

You didn't get hostile, weren't confrontational, and didn't attempt to engage me in an argument. I wish more users were you like you! Repped.

 

[MrKleen73]

I feel like I'm going to learn so much more being apart of this than I am paying thousands of dollars for classes!! Lol

WOW no pressure!

it's been a long time, old friend!

In for the ride!

Long time brother, glad to have you!

I'm in.

Welcome!

See how much love you get, Kleen?

Selfie time!

Seeing this post next to your current Avi... well you made me think dirty thoughts let's just say that....

What she said!!

YEP!!!!

Let's see what Radarine can do.

Welcome!

In, just let me get my hand out of Puccah's panties... :yup:

I was going to ask you to stop rubbing your spit on my fingers... :spank: :spank: :spank:

I love me some Rad! Subbed!

Welcome!

In!

Welcome!

In

Welcome!

Hey big guy.....sure you'll love these Olympus UK products.

I command you to grow

Yes Sir! I will grow since you put it that way!

I'm here and looking forward to the log brother.

Welcome!

Been using ghar1ne for about 5 weeks now, and honestly I wish I had stayed longer at 10mg before going up to 20mg. I did 2 weeks at 10mg, like you are planning, and then got impatient and jumped up to 20mg. I take huperzine a and egcg, but I still definitely feel like a tolerance develops. I think I could have gotten benefits from 10mg for another 1-2 weeks before increasing, thus maximizing the time before that tolerance sets in.

Excellent Info!

Maybe some of the effects there might be some kind of tolerance going on. Many of the positive effects would be more noticed over a longer period of time. The question would be would increasing dosage faster have any effect on the longer term advantages, would it speed things up any?

Yes and no, you will release more GH initially but taking more will probably increase attenuation so that it would stop being effective sooner. If you only have a short period then maybe it might be worth it to run it higher. Just because of the truncated time frame.

Nope. I would ride as low a dose as possible for as long as possible. Positive effects can be seen from gharine at 10mg in the beginning. I jumped on 20mg too soon myself and the lethargy was unbearable. I think it had a lot to do with my diet as well but still, see how long 10mg can be effective. You will know when you need to up your dose just by how you sleep and numbness in hands upon waking

Well the lethargy actually tells you that it indeed was working and stronger. When GH levels are held at a higher level for extended periods your IGF-1 levels increase which make you go hypo quite easily. Especially with you being on a cut, increasing IGF-1 levels is gong to run you right into hypo town pretty quickly. That would explain the lethargy.

For me I am going to extend the 10 out until I feel I need to bump it since you all mentioned it. However in Doug's case where time is of the essence I imagine going directly to an advanced dose is going to get the desired results faster for him. I also had a buddy of mine running it and 10 worked for him about a week and a half then he noticed he wasn't getting tired and was feeling anxious. I told him to bump to 20 and it corrected that for him immediately. Not sure what that was about but it definitely made it better for him.

The way I've been lead to understand it is that it has to do with somatostatin increasing over time. More GH leads to more somatostatin, which in turn starts inhibiting the release of GH. Huperzine a and egcg might do a little to inhibit somatostatin, but it will happen regardless eventually. That makes it seem to me like the best way to maximize the run would be to use the lowest effective dosage for as long as possible before increasing. You can only increase the dosage two or three times before it starts becoming cost prohibitive, so once you start getting desensitized at 30-40mg, that's pretty much it, I think. I would think that increasing the dosage faster would only lead to faster desensitization.

It would lead to faster desensitization, however also to higher initial GH levels. For someone in a hurry only running for 8 weeks I think starting higher would be more beneficial. The timeline is truncated so likelihood of desensitization in the shorter period would be lowered, while the effect should be increased from the beginning with the higher dose. Doug, is planning a hail Mary, not running a 3-6 month long run. In that particular situation I would recommend running it higher throughout to maximize benefits in the short time he has. I would also do what you are with the Huperzine-A, and ECGC, as well as divanil, I think it was divanil, may have been berberine... Possibly toss in some mucana to increase pulses and pulse strength.

ok I get it, I was thinking more of a situation like mine where I can only use it for about 2 months as it is supposed to cause water retention. I would definitely rethink it if I could run it longer, but I am in prep.

I think you are golden with your plan but yates84 and warpyfunch have the right idea for most anyone else. Your situation is very specific.


Last night was not in the books for me. I had to go run an errand when I got home and it ended up running until 9PM. So no cardio was done either. However I simply dropped about 500 calories from my day to make up for it. Zach responded and told me not to try to max out on the dead lifts tonight and just go lighter maybe do some speed sets of 3-5 reps. So that is the plan as of right now. I also did not get to take my pics to I will see if I can get my daughter or wife to take a shot or two before I actually start working out tonight.

 

[warpyfunch]

You didn't get hostile, weren't confrontational, and didn't attempt to engage me in an argument. I wish more users were you like you! Repped.

Well I went back and found the old posts that I'd thought I understood, skimmed the referenced studies, and couldn't find anything to dispute what you said. The only thing I did find was evidence that there does seem to be a peak GH output after about 8 days, and then it declines a bit. (Possible slight somatostatin effect there?) Also, both serum GH and IGF-1 were slightly higher at 6 months than at 12 months. But everything does stay well above baseline for a seemingly indefinite period.

google.com/patents/US7442706
(figures 2A-2D)

 

[Hastur]

Well I went back and found the old posts that I'd thought I understood, skimmed the referenced studies, and couldn't find anything to dispute what you said. The only thing I did find was evidence that there does seem to be a peak GH output after about 8 days, and then it declines a bit. Also, both serum GH and IGF-1 were slightly higher at 6 months than at 12 months. But everything does stay well above baseline for a seemingly indefinite period.

google.com/patents/US7442706
(figures 2A-2D)

Mhmm, and long term studies don't show desensitization, as in, by year 2 it still effectively raises GH/IGF-1 above baseline. That's a LONG period of time as well, so if desensitization doesn't occur on that time scale... We can't judge the effectiveness by it's side effects either, after a period of time side effects appear to diminish considerably, but it's only after a period of time do you really see the benefits of the elevated GH/IGF-1 in regards to recovery, body composition, so on.

 

[MrKleen73]

I'm not sure what you mean by tolerance, but that is definitely not what occurs to individuals in the available studies. There are 100 studies regarding MK-677 on PubMed, you will see that dosages of 25mg for up to 2 years were used without tolerance occurring, your GH remains elevated above baseline and IGF-1 appears to continue to increase for AT LEAST a year with daily dosing. So to say that 5 weeks is enough to cause tolerance contradicts what studies are telling us in a much larger sample of the population. If a somatostatin increase occurred to the point of tolerance within 5 weeks the studies would have shown that, but they don't. Again, we have studies showing that chronic dosing of 25mg for 2 years remains effective. You don't have to continuously up the dosage to see effects, effects are seen over a long span of time with MK-677, much longer than just 5 weeks. You will not become desensitized to it, this simply does not occur.

Awesome information!!!!! I had not read that far into it. So thanks for adding to my knowledge here! I agree on the somatostatin being an issue but even then I think it may begin to gradually blunt the effects a little but will not be able to neutralize them or come close. There are a lot of things out there to control the amount of active somatostatin. Warpy is already taking some of that too. The key to this and the most anabolic part of it is that steady increase of IGF-1! Well unless doing for fat loss then obviously that is huge too.

I stand corrected!

Sit down... it is more comfortable.

You didn't get hostile, weren't confrontational, and didn't attempt to engage me in an argument. I wish more users were you like you! Repped.

Yeah Warpy is a good dude! I like how he handles conflicts.

 

[DreamWeaver]

You didn't get hostile, weren't confrontational, and didn't attempt to engage me in an argument. I wish more users were you like you! Repped.

Yah I am glad Warpy brought these points up, it certainly helped me understand things better. Good to hear I am on the right track though.

 

[MrKleen73]

Well I went back and found the old posts that I'd thought I understood, skimmed the referenced studies, and couldn't find anything to dispute what you said. The only thing I did find was evidence that there does seem to be a peak GH output after about 8 days, and then it declines a bit. Also, both serum GH and IGF-1 were slightly higher at 6 months than at 12 months. But everything does stay well above baseline for a seemingly indefinite period.

google.com/patents/US7442706
(figures 2A-2D)

Mhmm, and long term studies don't show desensitization, as in, by year 2 it still effectively raises GH/IGF-1 above baseline. That's a LONG period of time as well, so if desensitization doesn't occur on that time scale... We can't judge the effectiveness by it's side effects either, after a period of time side effects appear to diminish considerably, but it's only after a period of time do you really see the benefits of the elevated GH/IGF-1 in regards to recovery, body composition, so on.

Looking at this I think what we are looking at is a difference in what you mean by desensitization. If you look at the data that Warpy supplied, and what you mention I think you are both correct. There is obviously some desensitization, if 12 month levels were slightly lower than 6 months. However if only slight and still well above natural limits then it is an effective long term PED even with slight desensitization. Hastur, it sounds like to me you are thinking of neutralization as opposed to desensitization. If somatostatin levels got so high they neutralized the effects it would no longer be useful. However being desensitized could simply mean it is only 80% as effective at the 2 year point as it was the fist week.

As long as we don't get caught up on the definition what becomes obvious is that even with some desensitization you can maintain supraphysiological GH and IGF levels for what appears to be indefinitely, and at least 2 years.

 

[warpyfunch]

Yeah Warpy is a good dude! I like how he handles conflicts.

High fives all around, you guys.

 

[Hastur]

Looking at this I think what we are looking at is a difference in what you mean by desensitization. If you look at the data that Warpy supplied, and what you mention I think you are both correct. There is obviously some desensitization, if 12 month levels were slightly lower than 6 months. However if only slight and still well above natural limits then it is an effective long term PED even with slight desensitization. Hastur, it sounds like to me you are thinking of neutralization as opposed to desensitization. If somatostatin levels got so high they neutralized the effects it would no longer be useful. However being desensitized could simply mean it is only 80% as effective at the 2 year point as it was the fist week.

As long as we don't get caught up on the definition what becomes obvious is that even with some desensitization you can maintain supraphysiological GH and IGF levels for what appears to be indefinitely, and at least 2 years.

Agreed, I may have jumped more towards desensitization meaning neutralization, but only because of what he implied by his post:

You can only increase the dosage two or three times before it starts becoming cost prohibitive, so once you start getting desensitized at 30-40mg, that's pretty much it, I think. I would think that increasing the dosage faster would only lead to faster desensitization.

And my point was, this is not the case. Studies show healthy males can take it up to 100mg before diminishing returns, and another study shows that after 2 years of daily dosing at 25mg GH remains above baseline, and IGF-1 continues to increase over time. So while you could split hairs and say that 6 months into dosing you have higher GH than 12 months into dosing, it's still high enough above baseline to be effective. And that IGF-1 levels are higher at 12 months than at 6 months, which is in contrast to the GH levels. And that is something we find favorable. At 6 months IGF-1 is around 60% higher, and at 12 months its around 70% higher. So IGF-1 is around 10% higher a year into daily dosing compared to 6 months of daily dosing, so that right there shows us that in ways it grows more effective with time versus less effective.

 

[Hastur]

BTW, loving the log already, Kleen. I love talking supps!

 

[MrKleen73]

By the way I love that we are on the first, well 2nd page and already in a great conversation we can all learn something from. This is how I like my logs to be.

Oh by the way, look at my little Princess on her way to her first day of 6th grade!

Now I know how my wife knows when I talk crap behind her back! Always watching!!!!

 

[Dma378]

Awesome pics buddy!! Be proud of those ladies.

 

[warpyfunch]

Agreed, I may have jumped more towards desensitization meaning neutralization, but only because of what he implied by his post:



And my point was, this is not the case. Studies show healthy males can take it up to 100mg before diminishing returns, and another study shows that after 2 years of daily dosing at 25mg GH remains above baseline, and IGF-1 continues to increase over time. So while you could split hairs and say that 6 months into dosing you have higher GH than 12 months into dosing, it's still high enough above baseline to be effective. And that IGF-1 levels are higher at 12 months than at 6 months, which is in contrast to the GH levels. And that is something we find favorable. At 6 months IGF-1 is around 60% higher, and at 12 months its around 70% higher. So IGF-1 is around 10% higher a year into daily dosing compared to 6 months of daily dosing, so that right there shows us that in ways it grows more effective with time versus less effective.

Can you link the 100mg study? Interested to check that one out.

 

[IronAddiction]

Can you link the 100mg study? Interested to check that one out.

likewise

 

[MrKleen73]

Agreed, I may have jumped more towards desensitization meaning neutralization, but only because of what he implied by his post:



And my point was, this is not the case. Studies show healthy males can take it up to 100mg before diminishing returns, and another study shows that after 2 years of daily dosing at 25mg GH remains above baseline, and IGF-1 continues to increase over time. So while you could split hairs and say that 6 months into dosing you have higher GH than 12 months into dosing, it's still high enough above baseline to be effective. And that IGF-1 levels are higher at 12 months than at 6 months, which is in contrast to the GH levels. And that is something we find favorable. At 6 months IGF-1 is around 60% higher, and at 12 months its around 70% higher. So IGF-1 is around 10% higher a year into daily dosing compared to 6 months of daily dosing, so that right there shows us that in ways it grows more effective with time versus less effective.

Wow the IGF levels are crazy! I love that, especially since the IGF made this way is localized and not just a systemic saturation like a shot. Localized IGF has the effects people are looking to achieve with the IGF LR3 which can cause tons of things you don't want growing to grow. Like tumors, organs or your prostate.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Great pics of the girls Chris.