HRT+Olympus Labs+ Letrone+OTHERS!

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I decided to log my second run of clomid therapy because I'm certain there's lots of interest in it as an HRT alternative/ for restarts. I also know many are curious about the letrone+clomid stack. So let's get started....

About me:
27 in September
5'7" 155 ~10%BF
Current training full body 3x week + 2 HIIT sessions
Current diet is roughly a 500kcal deficit (1900kcal daily is the target but I sometimes only hit 1800 based on what I feel like having) it's very high protein, moderate to high fat, low carb (under 50)
I am slowly reverse dieting up to 2300; upping 100 kcal every two weeks. I believe my diet led me to have low test this go around.

Current numbers as of July 25
Total test: 333
SHBG:40
Estradiol: 30
FSH: 5.1
LH 4.1
Prolactin: 11.1
RBC, hemoglobin and hematocrit all just under low normal, so "low"

I have done a clomid restart once from a low of 225. It got me up to 1100 but e2 shot up into the 80s! That was on 50mg everyday.

This time around I am dosing 25mg EOD. There's been a lot of research on this dosing scheme so I'm optimistic it will boost me into the 700-800+ range and keep e2 at bay.

I am NOT starting the letrone yet. I will not start it until I get my first labs done in 3-4 weeks and see where e2 is at. I may also add in Ghar1ne and Cardar1ne after the initial round of bloods in 3-4 weeks.

I will post other current supps in the next post.

In short- it's difficult to get out of bed. I have horrible aches and pains in muscles and joints. Headaches. Zero energy except when I mentally psych myself for a workout... No libido or morning wood to speak of at all. Serious lack of muscle fullness and definition 95% of the day. Sleep quality is downright awful. I've managed to keep some strength but it's definitely taken a hit despite my best supplement efforts. Always cranky/depressed/apathetic... I'm really looking forward to feeling human again... Low T sucks!
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Clomid HRT+Olympus Labs+ Letrone+OTHERS!

It's worth noting that LH/FSH aren't HORRIBLE. I'm not shut down which is great, but I'm just lacking production hard.

At age 18-21 I experimented with the harsh PH's that were on the market. I had NO clue what I was doing nor did I even know what a PCT was... I also took winny twice, without test, and no PCT.. Because again, I had no idea wtf I was doing (which is why I love AM). I was also anorexic at age 16-18 and went from 190 pounds to 94 on deaths door in ICU.

That's a crucial age for HPTA development and I'm certain it's affected my natural production, and thyroid (which I'm having labs done for tomorrow or sometime this week finally!)

Stress is high. I'm a business owner (2 businesses) I live on my own. I've been single since March after a 5 year dysfunctional relationship with lots of lies and cheating and just bad stuff. I finally grew the balls- excuse the pun- to break it off knowing I deserved better. With that being said- March and April were great. I had a killer libido and was intimate with a fair amount of girls. I was also taking in 2200-2400 kcal if not more at 175 lbs (I wasn't tracking macros then) Once my diet hit its peak in June at 1450kcal, all that changed and work stress was super high as well due to it being our busiest time of year... I am certain that diet and stress (along with my medical history and improper PH/steroid use) is the cause of my secondary hypogonadism.

Despite being on an insane diet and taking enough supplements to fuel this entire forum, I realized I needed to get my test checked bc I hit a huge wall and felt like I was straight up dying lol. So I slowly upped the cals to 1800-1900 (current) and discovered that T had dropped down to 220-300 range on two separate tests.

Current supps:

OL LJ100
Anabeta original
AS cistamax,
Ursobolic 12 caps daily,
OL elim1nate 1 cap daily
OL Ep1c Unleashed
AS Forskolin 50mg
PES shift
Original usp c20
EC (2 x daily)
OL conqu3r DGE pre workout
I force KNO3
2 caps USP powerfull at bed
AP for fasted training

Staples/General health
Ubiquinol 200mg daily
Fish oil 2-4g daily
Orange triad multi
L tyrosine 1000mg daily
SAM e 200mg daily
Alcar 1000-1500mg daily
ZMA nightly

It's quite the laundry list and I have acquired a huge stash over time. It was great to start out my cut but the low t and metabolism crash has stalled me out... I will slowly be cutting back on many of these and sticking mostly with Olympus products and general health products in addition to the clomid
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I gotta eat something lol then I'll post up my current supps

Not sure if I want to log training sessions. I will most likely post calories for the day tho as screen shots from my tracking app. I use a pen and paper in the gym with a notebook so transferring can be a PIA Sometimes
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Clomid HRT+Olympus Labs+ Letrone+OTHERS!

Updated second post

Still eating ;)
 
vujade

vujade

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
definitely interested in this..
 

CJNator

Well-known member
Awards
0
How will you dose Letrone? I'm noticing a weaker libido at 3 caps with rebirth but may up it to 4 caps for fun and get another bottle.
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
How will you dose Letrone? I'm noticing a weaker libido at 3 caps with rebirth but may up it to 4 caps for fun and get another bottle.
Why would you even attempt 4 caps of Letrone? You arent even on anything wet. Extremely low estrogen levels sode effects are almost as bad as high levels (emphasis on almost). Keep the dose lower and run it longer man.
 

CJNator

Well-known member
Awards
0
Why would you even attempt 4 caps of Letrone? You arent even on anything wet. Extremely low estrogen levels sode effects are almost as bad as high levels (emphasis on almost). Keep the dose lower and run it longer man.
Just as a test rat, but I probably won't its just a idea. I would like to see how it would effect someone on nothing wet.
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
I am having good success with 1 cap ED of Letrone.
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I agree with elrock 4 caps seems a bit excessive lol especially when they only recommend 2 for harsh cycles!

I plan on dosing 1 cap most likely... But it's going to be totally dependent on my labs in 4 weeks... If estradiol is in the 30-50 range ; 1 cap, if it's over 50 then most likely two... But again it depends on so much more so it remains to be seen at this time
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438711521.898025.jpg
yesterday's macros; don't mind the goal% I don't really have it set as I know what I want to hit daily. I'm going for high fat today and lower carb.. Just doing HIIT and mobility and core session today
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I still need to update the second post with current supp regimen
 

CJNator

Well-known member
Awards
0
I am having good success with 1 cap ED of Letrone.
I agree with elrock 4 caps seems a bit excessive lol especially when they only recommend 2 for harsh cycles!

I plan on dosing 1 cap most likely... But it's going to be totally dependent on my labs in 4 weeks... If estradiol is in the 30-50 range ; 1 cap, if it's over 50 then most likely two... But again it depends on so much more so it remains to be seen at this time
I started out with one, then 2, now I'm at 3 and I love it. You are right though 4 would be a little much lol but I can say I feel/look IMO pretty dry for about 16% bf.
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Clomid HRT+Olympus Labs+ Letrone+OTHERS!

Today's macros 1843kcal



Did a hiit session with core and mobility work. 10 intervals of 60 seconds on/ 30 seconds off on the bike.. Level 14 work level 10 off. Kept work rpm's at or around 100, rest at or around 50
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438744278.234041.jpg
 
rascal14

rascal14

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
That's quite the list of supplements.. Lol

I love Ep1c Unleashed though, it was awesome.
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I wouldn't be embarrassed. Most of them could be considered staples I think.
Well all that supp and little results body comp wise... Guess that's why Test is king! ..and food... And sleep lol my friends always break my balls Bc I pop all these pills and don't "get huge" but I know that's more diet dependent than anything

I'm just trying to look good naked at this point.. Can't front. Gotta get the T up tho!
 
rascal14

rascal14

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Well all that supp and little results body comp wise... Guess that's why Test is king! ..and food... And sleep lol my friends always break my balls Bc I pop all these pills and don't "get huge" but I know that's more diet dependent than anything

I'm just trying to look good naked at this point.. Can't front. Gotta get the T up tho!
Definitely, diet and patience is key. Even though I'm the worst at being patient. Lol
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Today is day 3 I took my second 25mg around 9am this morning. I'm feeling extremely anxious and stressed out for no apparent reason .. Just zero stress tolerance and everything is bugging me. This is how I've been feeling for a couple months now, however this seems to be more restless energy than apathy. Considering I didn't start clomid from a complete shutdown... I'm thinking it's going to kick in a lot faster than it typically would.

My skin is drying out and I also feel dry inside/dehydrated despite solid water intake
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
On the plus side, I still got legs.. Those ex fat kid legs!
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438810955.251248.jpg
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Today's total 1912 kcal

Hit 50g carbs for the first time in several months.. Like 4-5.. I can't wait to be up
To 100g by the end of the month.

ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438829002.868535.jpg


Hit up full upper body today with shoulder emphasis already feeling the doms. Energy was horrible all day per the usual but lift energy was there

Considering skipping HIIT tomorrow but I'll probably still do it. Mentally feel like I need the break but I have one full week left (next week) before a planned off week. Haven't had a full off week since May and I typically need them often
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Ended up doing my HIIT and core session

Did the bike for 15 minutes at 30 seconds work : 1:30 rest level 16 and level 10

Then did 30:30 intervals at level 15/8 for 6 rounds

Then finished up with 30: 130 again for 7 minutes at 16/10

Machine totaled 7.72 miles and exactly 300 kcal for what it's worth

Today's macros (fully planned) 1842 kcal

ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438896232.068643.jpg
 
kboxer7

kboxer7

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Dang, not sure how I missed subing this thread.

As for the Clomid dosing. I think you've got it right. I've been over a TON of bloods on Clomid for TRT and I've seen two approaches work best:

1. The 25mg EOD (give or take)

2. Starting at 12.5 month 1, ramping to 25mg, then 50 for month 3. Followed by time off then rinse and repeat.


While it is arguable, there may be some merit to option #2 due to desensitization, and I have seen it be quite effective in two cases. I also like you holding off on the AI for a bit. Typically I wouldn't throw that in before week 2-3 anyway since its typically not needed until then and a bit of a waste.

Wishing you the best man. Keep up the solid work!
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Dang, not sure how I missed subing this thread.

As for the Clomid dosing. I think you've got it right. I've been over a TON of bloods on Clomid for TRT and I've seen two approaches work best:

1. The 25mg EOD (give or take)

2. Starting at 12.5 month 1, ramping to 25mg, then 50 for month 3. Followed by time off then rinse and repeat.


While it is arguable, there may be some merit to option #2 due to desensitization, and I have seen it be quite effective in two cases. I also like you holding off on the AI for a bit. Typically I wouldn't throw that in before week 2-3 anyway since its typically not needed until then and a bit of a waste.

Wishing you the best man. Keep up the solid work!
Thanks bud. Today was actually pretty good energy wise and hip pain wise (next to none) mood was very improved as well. I am planning to keep the 25mg eod for 3 weeks... Then get checked... Then probably continue at that dose for another week or two before

Week 6- 25mg 3x a week (m,w,f)
Week 7- 25mg 2x a week (m,thurs)
Week 8- 25 mg 1x a week (wed)
At this point I would be deep into letrone, ghar1ne, and carar1ne and should be feeling and looking great at the end of October. Looking for peak test levels on Halloween so I can slay something nice at a party or two haha.. Single life does have its perks
 
kboxer7

kboxer7

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Thanks bud. Today was actually pretty good energy wise and hip pain wise (next to none) mood was very improved as well. I am planning to keep the 25mg eod for 3 weeks... Then get checked... Then probably continue at that dose for another week or two before

Week 6- 25mg 3x a week (m,w,f)
Week 7- 25mg 2x a week (m,thurs)
Week 8- 25 mg 1x a week (wed)
At this point I would be deep into letrone, ghar1ne, and carar1ne and should be feeling and looking great at the end of October. Looking for peak test levels on Halloween so I can slay something nice at a party or two haha.. Single life does have its perks
lol love it man. Halloween parties are the best.

I'm still hanging tight to see the exact drop in estro from the Letrone when the time comes.
 
Carminb1

Carminb1

Member
Awards
0
Looking forward to following this and how it helps you!
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Some food porn for u guys..

Frozen Chocolate PB cups
4 ingredients high protein low carb / low fat
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438915489.220315.jpg
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Recipe now. Please..
Haha sure!

1.5 ounce fat free Greek yogurt (I use coconut cream triple zero)
3 ounces almond milk
1 scoop select chocolate protein
4 tablespoons of PB2

Mix all and place in cupcake pan.. Use coconut oil spray to coat the pan for easy removal.

Freezer for 20-30 minutes and then when they sit out for like 5 minutes they're perfect texture to bite right into but not melt.
 
rascal14

rascal14

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
They look and sound amazing. I'll have to make some with my Phase 8 Chocolate Peanut Butter.
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Haha sure!

1.5 ounce fat free Greek yogurt (I use coconut cream triple zero)
3 ounces almond milk
1 scoop select chocolate protein
4 tablespoons of PB2

Mix all and place in cupcake pan.. Use coconut oil spray to coat the pan for easy removal.

Freezer for 20-30 minutes and then when they sit out for like 5 minutes they're perfect texture to bite right into but not melt.
Food boner.
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Had a great workout tonight full body again. I've decided to back off the heavy sets of 5 and work in the 6-8 rand for compounds and 10-12 for accessory and really focus on proper form and contraction... Sure I can weighted pull-ups with +30lbs... But I realized I really wasn't dong it the right way... So I decided to reset both mentally and weight wise and try to take advantage of the sure to be increasing test levels while reverse dieting and really get some quality growth.
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Here's some more food porn for u
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1438992452.953852.jpg
it's PB chocolate protein pizza topped with unsweetened coconut flakes .. Hinggg
 

ucheoma

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I love your candour. No BS in your posts. Your experience backs up what many wise heads have been saying all along: although this is a supplement site, hence the fixation on supps, you have to get the basics in place otherwise all the supps in the world will make little difference. Diet, sleep and lifestyle are the primary goals.

I don't understand why you seem to be so obsessed with a caloric deficit? you're only 155. You mentioned on daily calorie intake of 2200+ you felt great and T was fine. Why are you putting your body through this yo-yo dieting watching and measuring every calorie? It just doesn't feel very healthy to me. Get some proper food down your throat.


It's worth noting that LH/FSH aren't HORRIBLE. I'm not shut down which is great, but I'm just lacking production hard.

At age 18-21 I experimented with the harsh PH's that were on the market. I had NO clue what I was doing nor did I even know what a PCT was... I also took winny twice, without test, and no PCT.. Because again, I had no idea wtf I was doing (which is why I love AM). I was also anorexic at age 16-18 and went from 190 pounds to 94 on deaths door in ICU.

That's a crucial age for HPTA development and I'm certain it's affected my natural production, and thyroid (which I'm having labs done for tomorrow or sometime this week finally!)

Stress is high. I'm a business owner (2 businesses) I live on my own. I've been single since March after a 5 year dysfunctional relationship with lots of lies and cheating and just bad stuff. I finally grew the balls- excuse the pun- to break it off knowing I deserved better. With that being said- March and April were great. I had a killer libido and was intimate with a fair amount of girls. I was also taking in 2200-2400 kcal if not more at 175 lbs (I wasn't tracking macros then) Once my diet hit its peak in June at 1450kcal, all that changed and work stress was super high as well due to it being our busiest time of year... I am certain that diet and stress (along with my medical history and improper PH/steroid use) is the cause of my secondary hypogonadism.

Despite being on an insane diet and taking enough supplements to fuel this entire forum, I realized I needed to get my test checked bc I hit a huge wall and felt like I was straight up dying lol. So I slowly upped the cals to 1800-1900 (current) and discovered that T had dropped down to 220-300 range on two separate tests.

Current supps:

OL LJ100
Anabeta original
AS cistamax,
Ursobolic 12 caps daily,
OL elim1nate 1 cap daily
OL Ep1c Unleashed
AS Forskolin 50mg
PES shift
Original usp c20
EC (2 x daily)
OL conqu3r DGE pre workout
I force KNO3
2 caps USP powerfull at bed
AP for fasted training

Staples/General health
Ubiquinol 200mg daily
Fish oil 2-4g daily
Orange triad multi
L tyrosine 1000mg daily
SAM e 200mg daily
Alcar 1000-1500mg daily
ZMA nightly

It's quite the laundry list and I have acquired a huge stash over time. It was great to start out my cut but the low t and metabolism crash has stalled me out... I will slowly be cutting back on many of these and sticking mostly with Olympus products and general health products in addition to the clomid
 
vujade

vujade

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I love your candour. No BS in your posts. Your experience backs up what many wise heads have been saying all along: although this is a supplement site, hence the fixation on supps, you have to get the basics in place otherwise all the supps in the world will make little difference. Diet, sleep and lifestyle are the primary goals.

I don't understand why you seem to be so obsessed with a caloric deficit? you're only 155. You mentioned on daily calorie intake of 2200+ you felt great and T was fine. Why are you putting your body through this yo-yo dieting watching and measuring every calorie? It just doesn't feel very healthy to me. Get some proper food down your throat.
While I agree with you on most of what you said, i have to say that your comment about him being 155 and wanting to
cut is somewhat off. Everyones body is different. At 155 one person may have 8% body fat and another may be 15%.

Not everyone loses weight easily and most of the time they can put it on easily, so they have to be careful not to get fat,
while adding muscle.

Personally I've tried to Lean Bulk several times in the past, both naturally and on anabolics. I have always gained
fat, despite eating a super clean diet and only adding minimal calories to my daily expenditure. I have come to the
the conclusion, the only way I will ever be able to lean bulk, is to first get shredded, so that i have the minimal
amount of fat on me, thereby making it much easier to see what I've gained, and to also lose it.

Currently Im sitting @ 159 & 13.5 to 14% body fat. Goal is to get down to 10%. To do this I'm going to have to
cut down to 150, while maintaining my muscle mass. Which I'm hoping will be feasible with the current cycle I
have planned out.
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
While I agree with you on most of what you said, i have to say that your comment about him being 155 and wanting to
cut is somewhat off. Everyones body is different. At 155 one person may have 8% body fat and another may be 15%.

Not everyone loses weight easily and most of the time they can put it on easily, so they have to be careful not to get fat,
while adding muscle.

Personally I've tried to Lean Bulk several times in the past, both naturally and on anabolics. I have always gained
fat, despite eating a super clean diet and only adding minimal calories to my daily expenditure. I have come to the
the conclusion, the only way I will ever be able to lean bulk, is to first get shredded, so that i have the minimal
amount of fat on me, thereby making it much easier to see what I've gained, and to also lose it.

Currently Im sitting @ 159 & 13.5 to 14% body fat. Goal is to get down to 10%. To do this I'm going to have to
cut down to 150, while maintaining my muscle mass. Which I'm hoping will be feasible with the current cycle I
have planned out.
You hit the nail on the head... Due to my metabolic damage and low T.. My 155 isn't your typical 155. I am the proverbial skinny fat ecto.. The standard rules DO NOT apply here. I am roughly 10-11% at 155. I was 14-15% at 175. I wanted to cut to sub 10% REGARDLESS of scale weight. I achieved that for literally ONE WEEK before it was killing me to maintain.... So I had to up my cals.

Now slowly reverse dieting and slowly and carefully adding in carbs to limit fat gain as much as possible.. Layne Norton has a GREAT video on reverse dieting.

If u only add 100 calories every other week, your body has time to adjust metabolism accordingly, and over the course of the year, you've now adjusted your metabolism to efficiently function / maintain on an additional 2,600 calories! So if I'm maintaining at 1800-1900 right now, in one year I'll be bigger, leaner, and eating nearly double... Thus making cutting EASIER in the future.

You cant cut if there's NO CALORIES to cut ;)
 

chedapalooza

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Energy and mood is great today. I cleaned my whole apartment did laundry then went for a 25 minute run and 25 minute kayak with some laps after .. Nice 1-2 chop on Long Island sound today..haven't had so much energy in a looong time.. And I drank last night
 
rascal14

rascal14

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Energy and mood is great today. I cleaned my whole apartment did laundry then went for a 25 minute run and 25 minute kayak with some laps after .. Nice 1-2 chop on Long Island sound today..haven't had so much energy in a looong time.. And I drank last night
Did any of those drinks include a Long Island Iced Tea? Lol that was my drink of choice for like 6 months straight, delicious.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Cycle Logs 2

Similar threads


Top