is it wise to bridge Sarm after a prohormone cycle ?

kafahmy

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I'm running a cynostane cycle for 6 weeks and considering to try SARM (probably triple stack) afterward.
From what I've read , SARM are not suppressive and does not go through your liver .
Would you go for an 6-8 weeks SARM cycle right after the prohormone cycle than run your PCT or it's better to run the PCT first and take a short break than give the SARM a try ?
 
mixedup

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Sarms can shut you down but if you wanna be on longer it's safer than amother methyls
 

kafahmy

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I just don't get it
so if they shut you down either way why don't you just run it along with your prohoromne cycle ?
i've seen guys running "OSTA SHRED " among with cynostane or superdrol and I though it was stupid....
 
mixedup

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I just don't get it
so if they shut you down either way why don't you just run it along with your prohoromne cycle ?
i've seen guys running "OSTA SHRED " among with cynostane or superdrol and I though it was stupid....
Some people don't want to stack because sides can add up some people want to extend a cycle and sarms are non methyl
 

kafahmy

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would you suggest running PCT first or it's possible to run Ostarine right after the 6 weeks prohormone cycle than run the PCT ?
thx for your input dude and btw I'm a big fan of your posts :)
 
mixedup

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would you suggest running PCT first or it's possible to run Ostarine right after the 6 weeks prohormone cycle than run the PCT ?
thx for your input dude and btw I'm a big fan of your posts :)
Honestly since your going to be shutdown I go right into the sarm to help solidify your gains than do a full pct..
 

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Don't sarms just upregulate the androgen receptors?
If you have no circulating testosterone (shutdown), then wouldn't the sarm have no effect?
If there's no testosterone to bind to the receptors then their activity is irrelevant.. Right?
If anything you could run a sarm before the cycle, then run that straight into a PH.
 

kafahmy

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That's a very good point !
But if you run it with your PCT ( SERM ,DAA,Alphamax and sns xgel for an example ) and bridge it to the next cycle wouldn't you be already getting your testosterone back to normal while taking advantage of the SARM to keep your gain and hopefully get you leaner ?
I see where you'r coming from ,but If it's true ,I believe SARM might need just a little longer to kick in but won't be useless
 

Jtrepp333

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I'm running a cynostane cycle for 6 weeks and considering to try SARM (probably triple stack) afterward.
From what I've read , SARM are not suppressive and does not go through your liver .
Would you go for an 6-8 weeks SARM cycle right after the prohormone cycle than run your PCT or it's better to run the PCT first and take a short break than give the SARM a try ?
Two things:

First, SARMS are most certainly suppressive. Any compound that interacts with your Androgen Receptors will have suppression because it competes with Testosterone in regard to binding to the receptor sites.

Second, SARMS do interact with your liver. Most will be much less than AAS compounds with the exception of YK-11 as this SARM is methylated - and despite being a SARM its structure is actually the same as Steroids. Anything entering your body, even injectables or Sublinguals will be processed through the liver. While some like the two routes mentioned above avoid the livers first-pass metabolism, the liver will always play a role in what is ingested.

Please, please do your research - there is a lot of misinformation out there on SARMS.
 
Renew1

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I'm running a cynostane cycle for 6 weeks and considering to try SARM (probably triple stack) afterward.
From what I've read , SARM are not suppressive and does not go through your liver .
Would you go for an 6-8 weeks SARM cycle right after the prohormone cycle than run your PCT or it's better to run the PCT first and take a short break than give the SARM a try ?
You'd be better off PCTing, taking proper time off, then running another cycle.
 
wfreiling

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Two things:

First, SARMS are most certainly suppressive. Any compound that interacts with your Androgen Receptors will have suppression because it competes with Testosterone in regard to binding to the receptor sites.

Second, SARMS do interact with your liver. Most will be much less than AAS compounds with the exception of YK-11 as this SARM is methylated - and despite being a SARM its structure is actually the same as Steroids. Anything entering your body, even injectables or Sublinguals will be processed through the liver. While some like the two routes mentioned above avoid the livers first-pass metabolism, the liver will always play a role in what is ingested.

Please, please do your research - there is a lot of misinformation out there on SARMS.

You’re about 6 years late
 

Jtrepp333

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This was more meant for people who come across this post now looking for info
 

Jtrepp333

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I actually have a question. If someone did 4-5 weeks on a prohormone cycle (new PH's like Hi-tech's 1or4-Andro a two-step conversion), could they go straight into a 7-8 week cycle of SARMS - and then do a full PCT after that?
 
Renew1

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I actually have a question. If someone did 4-5 weeks on a prohormone cycle (new PH's like Hi-tech's 1or4-Andro a two-step conversion), could they go straight into a 7-8 week cycle of SARMS - and then do a full PCT after that?
I'm not sure why someone would want to.

You could just pick one or the other, and run it a little longer.
 

Jtrepp333

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I'm not sure why someone would want to.

You could just pick one or the other, and run it a little longer.
Because I wanted to try the PH. Haven't noticed too much - but there were some minor gains. But I want to keep going and build on that with RAD-140 and Ibutamoren and I don't want to loose my traction with PCTing for 4 weeks. I rather go directly into the SARM cycle then PCT after that. Between the PH and SARMs it would basically be a 12wk Cycle all together. I would then do a full 4wk PCT with Arimstane and a Test Booster.
 
Renew1

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Because I wanted to try the PH. Haven't noticed too much - but there were some minor gains. But I want to keep going and build on that with RAD-140 and Ibutamoren and I don't want to loose my traction with PCTing for 4 weeks. I rather go directly into the SARM cycle then PCT after that. Between the PH and SARMs it would basically be a 12wk Cycle all together. I would then do a full 4wk PCT with Arimstane and a Test Booster.

IMO, people abandon a cycle, and try to change it to something else (mid-cycle) far too often.
They'll never know what would have been .... And they also won't know what the new compounds would've done for a full cycle.

.... But a 12 week cycle like you're referring to probably won't kill you. :)

However .... You Really need to change that "PCT".

You'll need a SERM (Nolvadex or Clomid).
... And make sure to allow plenty of time between cycles.
 
Renew1

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Because I wanted to try the PH. Haven't noticed too much - but there were some minor gains. But I want to keep going and build on that with RAD-140 and Ibutamoren and I don't want to loose my traction with PCTing for 4 weeks. I rather go directly into the SARM cycle then PCT after that. Between the PH and SARMs it would basically be a 12wk Cycle all together. I would then do a full 4wk PCT with Arimstane and a Test Booster.

 

Jtrepp333

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IMO, people abandon a cycle, and try to change it to something else (mid-cycle) far too often.
They'll never know what would have been .... And they also won't know what the new compounds would've done for a full cycle.

.... But a 12 week cycle like you're referring to probably won't kill you. :)

However .... You Really need to change that "PCT".

You'll need a SERM (Nolvadex or Clomid).
... And make sure to allow plenty of time between cycles.
See with those I'm not sure where to get em legally. I will say I'm four weeks in taking 1-Andro, 4-Andro, Epi-Andro and 19-Nor and I'm not having any suppression or estrogen side effects. In regards to the PH cycle...I'm not stopping mid-cycle, it will be a full 5wk cycle. And yeah I plan on doing a full pct after the SARMs. Next cycle after the RAD140 and Ibutamoren is YK-11 and another bottle of Ibutamoren. After that I have a few others Like LGD-4033, S23, ACP-105 and AC-262,536
 
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Renew1

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See with those I'm not sure where to get em legally. I will say I'm four weeks in taking 1-Andro, 4-Andro, Epi-Andro and 19-Nor and I'm not having any suppression or estrogen side effects. In regards to the PH cycle...I'm not stopping mid-cycle, it will be a full 5wk cycle.
I gave you the link above for Nolvadex (which I prefer).
But he also has Clomid, if you'd rather get that
 
Renew1

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See with those I'm not sure where to get em legally. I will say I'm four weeks in taking 1-Andro, 4-Andro, Epi-Andro and 19-Nor and I'm not having any suppression or estrogen side effects. In regards to the PH cycle...I'm not stopping mid-cycle, it will be a full 5wk cycle.
Whether you Feel suppressed or not isn't the point. If you run a cycle of those compounds, you Will be suppressed.
 

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Whether you Feel suppressed or not isn't the point. If you run a cycle of those compounds, you Will be suppressed.
Of course which is why I plan on taking the AI and Test Booster. I can also get my hands on Finasteride but doubt that would do much...even if stacked with an AI like Arimstane.
 

Jtrepp333

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I gave you the link above for Nolvadex (which I prefer).
But he also has Clomid, if you'd rather get that
On another note...my next cycle after the RAD140 and Ibutamoren is YK-11 and another bottle of Ibutamoren. That's for sure. But after that I also have 30ml bottles of a few others Like LGD-4033, S23, ACP-105 and AC-262,536 those four how would you stack em? The RAD and YK I'm doing alongside the Ibutamoren. But for the others after that I want to stack 2 at a time. Any suggestions??
 
Renew1

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Of course which is why I plan on taking the AI and Test Booster. I can also get my hands on Finasteride but doubt that would do much...even if stacked with an AI like Arimstane.
Why are you talking about taking all of these different products that Are Not legitimate PCTs, and ignoring the Legitimate one I gave you?

That makes no sense man.
You're going to end up screwing yourself up.

... At least I did try to help you
 

Jtrepp333

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Why are you talking about taking all of these different products that Are Not legitimate PCTs, and ignoring the Legitimate one I gave you?

That makes no sense man.
You're going to end up screwing yourself up.

... At least I did try to help you
I'm not ignoring you bro. I'm in law school in Arizona. and I'm scared to get caught with an RX drug. They are super strict out here - and I cant mess up my career lol. Did you see my last post tho?
 
Renew1

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I'm not ignoring you bro. I'm in law school in Arizona. and I'm scared to get caught with an RX drug. They are super strict out here - and I cant mess up my career lol. Did you see my last post tho?
Yeah, but I haven't went through it yet ...

Well the site I gave you is a "Research Chemical" site. No prescription required.
If they don't want to arrest Mike (owner of the site) for selling these (for years) ... They certainly wouldn't arrest you for buying them.

But I do understand how you wouldn't want to jeopardize your situation.
It is up to each individual to decide what they should do.

However..... I do recommend (for everyone), if they aren't able/willing to purchase the items to help keep their own natural howmones functioning ... They would be better off not to use suppressive compounds.
.... For their own good.

:)
 

Jtrepp333

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Yeah, but I haven't went through it yet ...

Well the site I gave you is a "Research Chemical" site. No prescription required.
If they don't want to arrest Mike (owner of the site) for selling these (for years) ... They certainly wouldn't arrest you for buying them.

But I do understand how you wouldn't want to jeopardize your situation.
It is up to each individual to decide what they should do.

However..... I do recommend (for everyone), if they aren't able/willing to purchase the items to help keep their own natural howmones functioning ... They would be better off not to use suppressive compounds.
.... For their own good.

:)
I feel you there. This is why I stuck with PH and SARMs tbh. From what I can see much less suppressive. I have no issues taking a SERM - I'm just worried about it getting found in the mail an ****.
In regards to my last question on the SARMs stack - any suggestions for how to stack those last four? I was thinking two at a time - but not sure which to combine with which
 
Whisky

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I feel you there. This is why I stuck with PH and SARMs tbh. From what I can see much less suppressive. I have no issues taking a SERM - I'm just worried about it getting found in the mail an ****.
In regards to my last question on the SARMs stack - any suggestions for how to stack those last four? I was thinking two at a time - but not sure which to combine with which
to be honest bro you just shouldn’t use anything.

totally respect the reason why you don’t want to get a serm but there’s just no point running anything without one. A serm helps your natural production kickstart quicker after the cycle, without it that will take longer, during which time your hormones are very sub optimal. Sub optimal hormones for a sustained period makes maintaining your gains from the cycle very very hard, the likely hood is you’d lose them all and possibly regress to a worse point than before you started.

this is all compounded further by the fact you are running compounds which will deliver that much in the way of results. Ph’s and sarms (depending on which ones you run) will suppress you but do not come close to the outcomes one achieves with actual anabolic agents. If you aren’t going to use a proper pct with them then the juice definitely isn’t worth the squeeze in my opinion.
 
Rad83

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On another note...my next cycle after the RAD140 and Ibutamoren is YK-11 and another bottle of Ibutamoren. That's for sure. But after that I also have 30ml bottles of a few others Like LGD-4033, S23, ACP-105 and AC-262,536 those four how would you stack em? The RAD and YK I'm doing alongside the Ibutamoren. But for the others after that I want to stack 2 at a time. Any suggestions??
I wouldn’t run or suggest a single sarm without a serm pct, and you’re talkin bout 4?

YK11 is a steroid…more than capable of long term shutdown/suppression. Don’t gamble any more than you have to with your hpta, like the previous members have well said!

I don’t think there’s much difference in getting caught with a sarm vs. a serm 🤷‍♂️

The whole “sarms don’t require pct” is some lame Reddit and YouTube BS that needs to go away.

Stick with the few natural products that can aid in a fitness/health lifestyle…if you don’t want to have an AI and a couple serms on hand at all times
 
KvanH

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Some great honest FACTS being dropped here. But I'll just summerize my thoughts here aswell.

Arimistane+T booster is not a pct. AI's are not a pct and arimistane is a weak one at that. Even for otc AI's arimistane wouldn't make it to top 5.

Finasteride? What? No.

So you'll rather risk your health, than your career?

Rad brings up a good point about sarms vs serms legality. Sarms are being sold as rx too, right? That's how they can still be sold, they are not for human consumption, for research purposes only.

The 1-Andro typically starts to ellicit (positive) effects on the 4-5 week mark. So you're stopping when it's just getting good. I'd suggest you do a minimum of 8 weeks of the Andros and see where they'll take you. If you feel like you really aren't getting anything out of it, you could increase the 1-Andro dosing. And if you really want to, you could add the Rad-140 to the latter weeks of this run on top of the Andros. This is just what I would do.

But get the serm. I don't live in the US, so maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't see why someone would open your mail to see what's in it in the first place and then call the authorities and would they care about a rx product, that are being sold by several sellers nation wide?
 

Jtrepp333

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I wouldn’t run or suggest a single sarm without a serm pct, and you’re talkin bout 4?

YK11 is a steroid…more than capable of long term shutdown/suppression. Don’t gamble any more than you have to with your hpta, like the previous members have well said!

I don’t think there’s much difference in getting caught with a sarm vs. a serm 🤷‍♂️

The whole “sarms don’t require pct” is some lame Reddit and YouTube BS that needs to go away.

Stick with the few natural products that can aid in a fitness/health lifestyle…if you don’t want to have an AI and a couple serms on hand at all times
I feel you. Well SARMs are considered "Investigational Drugs" which is why as long as they are marked not for human consumption they are grey market. SERMs on the other hand are already approved and require a Rx. Drugs that have not been approved = Research Chemicals. And Drugs already on the market that need a Rx are illegal without one.
 

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And aside from me. How would you guys stack those last four SARMs if you were to do two each at a time? (The four listed after RAD and YK).
 

Jtrepp333

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Some great honest FACTS being dropped here. But I'll just summerize my thoughts here aswell.

Arimistane+T booster is not a pct. AI's are not a pct and arimistane is a weak one at that. Even for otc AI's arimistane wouldn't make it to top 5.

Finasteride? What? No.

So you'll rather risk your health, than your career?

Rad brings up a good point about sarms vs serms legality. Sarms are being sold as rx too, right? That's how they can still be sold, they are not for human consumption, for research purposes only.

The 1-Andro typically starts to ellicit (positive) effects on the 4-5 week mark. So you're stopping when it's just getting good. I'd suggest you do a minimum of 8 weeks of the Andros and see where they'll take you. If you feel like you really aren't getting anything out of it, you could increase the 1-Andro dosing. And if you really want to, you could add the Rad-140 to the latter weeks of this run on top of the Andros. This is just what I would do.

But get the serm. I don't live in the US, so maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't see why someone would open your mail to see what's in it in the first place and then call the authorities and would they care about a rx product, that are being sold by several sellers nation wide?
How about the 4-andro and 19-nor?
 
Whisky

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I feel you. Well SARMs are considered "Investigational Drugs" which is why as long as they are marked not for human consumption they are grey market. SERMs on the other hand are already approved and require a Rx. Drugs that have not been approved = Research Chemicals. And Drugs already on the market that need a Rx are illegal without one.
your logic makes sense if you were buying pharma serms….,.. however the site sponsors sell the serm as a research chemical so it’s exactly the same as your sarms…..
 
KvanH

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How about the 4-andro and 19-nor?
What do you mean how about them? I would continue a full lenght cycle of all the andros. The 4-Andro is there to bring some estrogen and test and have you feeling good and all that. Not really for gains, but just a 'test base' product. I don't know much about the 19-nor andro, but I've heard it's not a very good product. But like I said, I don't know much about it. The 1-Andro is the workhorse in that stack.
 

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your logic makes sense if you were buying pharma serms….,.. however the site sponsors sell the serm as a research chemical so it’s exactly the same as your sarms…..
Im not sure if that's how it works. With that logic one can sell/buy cocaine as long as they mark it as a research chemical
 
Whisky

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Im not sure if that's how it works. With that logic one can sell/buy cocaine as long as they mark it as a research chemical
it’s illegal to sell recreational drugs for any purpose. It’s not illegal to sell sarms etc for research purposes (they also limit the form in which it can be sold I believe ).

same reason aas can’t be sold in the USA as research chemicals. All about the classification.

at some it’s likely sarms will go the way of aas
 

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Keep jucing all year long and become King kong with nuts dong...🤣🤣💥💥
 

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it’s illegal to sell recreational drugs for any purpose. It’s not illegal to sell sarms etc for research purposes (they also limit the form in which it can be sold I believe ).

same reason aas can’t be sold in the USA as research chemicals. All about the classification.

at some it’s likely sarms will go the way of aas
This is only true for non-aproved research chemicals. Once it is approved and requires a script than it's illegal to sell or posses regardless of what they put on the label. Them doing this is a very weak attempt - but would most certainly not hold up law wise. And I tell you this as a law student
 
Rad83

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“No SERM no Cycle” that’s a well known motto here for a reason.

If you don’t want to delve into the research chemical realm, don’t run anything hormonal.
No one here gonna co-sign on the route that you want to go, as it stands.
 
Whisky

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This is only true for non-aproved research chemicals. Once it is approved and requires a script than it's illegal to sell or posses regardless of what they put on the label. Them doing this is a very weak attempt - but would most certainly not hold up law wise. And I tell you this as a law student
I’m struggling to see how the likes of Mike Arnold has been doing it perfectly openly for years then?
 

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I’m struggling to see how the likes of Mike Arnold has been doing it perfectly openly for years then?
Don't rely on what I'm saying then....do the research yourself....
 
Whisky

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Don't rely on what I'm saying then....do the research yourself....
it makes zero odds to me bro. I’m in the U.K. and have access to pharma serms plus a good ugl 🤷

my point to the op was that him buying sarms sold as research Chems was no different in legality to him buying a serm sold as a research chem.

my understanding is that you can’t sell something illegal as a research chemical.

however prescription drugs aren’t illegal (and there are lots of legitimate reasons one may need to research using them). So sold as research Chems it’s a loophole.

of course the final category is those that haven’t been classified at all (typically the designer drugs).

i could be wrong but I find it hard to to believe that many suppliers openly sell serms as research Chems, have been doing it years but yet it’s illegal🤷

grey area maybe
 

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it makes zero odds to me bro. I’m in the U.K. and have access to pharma serms plus a good ugl 🤷

my point to the op was that him buying sarms sold as research Chems was no different in legality to him buying a serm sold as a research chem.

my understanding is that you can’t sell something illegal as a research chemical.

however prescription drugs aren’t illegal (and there are lots of legitimate reasons one may need to research using them). So sold as research Chems it’s a loophole.

of course the final category is those that haven’t been classified at all (typically the designer drugs).

i could be wrong but I find it hard to to believe that many suppliers openly sell serms as research Chems, have been doing it years but yet it’s illegal🤷

grey area maybe
Once a chemical is ruled by the FDA to be a medicine US law makes it illegal to have anything with that chemical structure in your possession without a prescription. Legit research chemicals like SARMs are not considered even meds yet - they are simply chemicals. Once a SARM is approved for market though then it goes from being considered a chemical to a medicine
 
wfreiling

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If you’re not ready to use a serm then you’re not ready to stack 4 sarms and whatever andros. That’s fine. Stay natural. Real simple. No one is trying to give a hard time for no reason, they’re trying to save you after this cycle is over and you lose all gains and sh1t stops working. If this sounds like a good time then by all means go on with your fool proof plan.
 
Renew1

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Once a chemical is ruled by the FDA to be a medicine US law makes it illegal to have anything with that chemical structure in your possession without a prescription. Legit research chemicals like SARMs are not considered even meds yet - they are simply chemicals. Once a SARM is approved for market though then it goes from being considered a chemical to a medicine
Besides what @Whisky already said above....
Look at it this way ....
If LE doesn't care in the slightest that Mike and others have been selling these as RCs for YEARS with absolutely no issues ....
What makes you think ANYONE is going to care if you buy a bottle of it.

But @Rad83 also stated a Truth.
If you aren't willing to take a SERM, don't take Anabolics.
They'll screw you up.
.... And the good members here certainly aren't going to aid and abet you in that endeavor.
 
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Jtrepp333

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it makes zero odds to me bro. I’m in the U.K. and have access to pharma serms plus a good ugl 🤷

my point to the op was that him buying sarms sold as research Chems was no different in legality to him buying a serm sold as a research chem.

my understanding is that you can’t sell something illegal as a research chemical.

however prescription drugs aren’t illegal (and there are lots of legitimate reasons one may need to research using them). So sold as research Chems it’s a loophole.

of course the final category is those that haven’t been classified at all (typically the designer drugs).

i could be wrong but I find it hard to to believe that many suppliers openly sell serms as research Chems, have been doing it years but yet it’s illegal🤷

grey area maybe
Look at Osterine:
"ostarine is not currently available as a prescription medication in any country. No matter what medical condition you have, your doctor is not legally allowed to prescribe ostarine to you as a treatment." This makes it a true Research Chemical. Once it's approved by the FDA though, and is approved to be used in humans it is no longer a Research Chemical and is now considered a Drug.
 
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Look at Osterine:
"ostarine is not currently available as a prescription medication in any country. No matter what medical condition you have, your doctor is not legally allowed to prescribe ostarine to you as a treatment." This makes it a true Research Chemical. Once it's approved by the FDA though, and is approved to be used in humans it is no longer a Research Chemical and is now considered a Drug.
Brother.... We realize that with what you've learned so far in law school, you think you know better in these matters than we do.
But we live with this stuff in the real world, and have been for years (and decades).

Nobody really cares to debate technical legalities with you.
We choose to, and need to live with what the real world gives us.

Join us, or don't.

At this point I'm losing the ability to care.
 

Jtrepp333

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Brother.... We realize that with what you've learned so far in law school, you think you know better in these matters than we do.
But we live with this stuff in the real world, and have been for years (and decades).

Nobody really cares to debate technical legalities with you.
We choose to, and need to live with what the real world gives us.

Join us, or don't.

At this point I'm losing the ability to care.
I have been using AAS and SARMs for over 5 years. Been weight training in the gym for 10. I have been able to bounce back in a week or less from both with an AI and Test boost. All I was simply trying to find out was an opinion as to whether it is worth going straight from a full PH cycle into a full SARM cycle with a PCT after that. Or if I would see diminishing returns of gains and/or cause more than average suppression. I appreciate all the info. I was simply trying to explain that legality wise SARMs and SERMs ARE different
 

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