Too much fat to start cycle?

[TxM22]

 

[mixedup]

What kind of cycle bulk or cut

 

[mgkoret]

Most people like to get down to 7-12% bf before starting a cycle. Yes you will see results using a product if you do it right. But don't expect a miracle physique. I'd say change up the diet for a few months, clean it up and see where it gets you. I'd say from the pic your sitting at around 17-22%bf.
If bulking, I'd say no reason not to. As long as you don't plan to total recomp out of it
If cut, cut natty for awhile first, then jump on something if you feel the need.
Good luck

 

[TxM22]

Im just really looking to add some mass so I want to bulk. My diet very clean except one cheat meal a week as usual. Figured if I ran it now I could just cut bf later. You guys gain much bf on cycle?

 

[mgkoret]

These were my results after a 8 month bulk. Cutting now.

Is still suggest cutting some fat before cycle to improve physique results. And when on cycle, lift big. Really start to develop your body. You gotta kill it every day. Not saying your not. Just saying.

 

[TxM22]

These were my results after a 8 month bulk. Cutting now.

Is still suggest cutting some fat before cycle to improve physique results. And when on cycle, lift big. Really start to develop your body. You gotta kill it every day. Not saying your not. Just saying.

You got some good gains there man. What did you run for your cycle? Ive been cutting for a few weeks and still lifting hard as hell which Ive been keeping my strength up and increasing some too. I think Ill keep at it until my bf is lower. As much as I hate cutting, Id like to see the results from my cycle be much more apparent when Im done.

 

[mgkoret]

I logged it all

Epi at 30/30/40/50/60/60

Pct

Clomid 50/50/25/25

6 week break

Dimethabold 30/40/60/60/75/75/90/90
Halo 50/50/50/50/0/0/0/0
Stano 800/800/800/800

Same pct + wicket pct from AAR (banned now and I'm pissed)

Lots of chicken and eggs.

 

[TxM22]

Thats a solid cycle and results. What was your weight in the before pic and was that your first time running a cycle? I am getting feedback on other forums saying Im too small to run a cycle. Its annoying when I have people telling me to cut (hence, getting smaller) before I run a cycle and others telling me I need to get bigger first...

 

[mixedup]

Thats a solid cycle and results. What was your weight in the before pic and was that your first time running a cycle? I am getting feedback on other forums saying Im too small to run a cycle. Its annoying when I have people telling me to cut (hence, getting smaller) before I run a cycle and others telling me I need to get bigger first...

When they say get bigger that probablly mean more lbm when we say cut we mean cut bf%. . Bigger doesn't necessarily mean more weigh. And cutting doesn't mean you have to get smaller

 

[mixedup]

Im just really looking to add some mass so I want to bulk. My diet very clean except one cheat meal a week as usual. Figured if I ran it now I could just cut bf later. You guys gain much bf on cycle?

I'd also like too see your definition of very clean it's good you want to improve and not taking a swipe at you but imo if your diet was very clean your wouldn't be worrying if you were too fat to cycle. A clean diet to me will keep you in sub teen bf% very clean would keep you single digits.

 

[TxM22]

No, I understand gaining size as in lbm and cut bf in terms of fat and maintain current muscle mass. I am on a current caloric deficit of 300. Ive been maintaining strength and size for the most part, but obviously I feel smaller on a cut. Last year I lost my job and got depressed and stopped working out. I used to be bigger and less fat. Ive been back to lifting for 5 months now going 5 days a week hitting upper/lower twice a week.

My idea of clean eating is anything on the dollar menu and diet pepsi only. Haha jk.

I eat brown rice, oats, sweet potatoes and sometimes wheat bread for carbs.
Protein is whey, fish, shrimp, boneless skinless chicken, tilapia, tuna, ground turkey, eggs.
Fats include peanut butter, olive oil, avocados and mostly coconut butter when cooking. I don't count veggies into macros...mostly spinach and broccoli. I do carb reloads on weekends and include cheat meal.

I am pretty keen on what to eat and what not to eat. I am coming off a bulk so my current bf is not relative to my knowledge of nutrition.

 

[mgkoret]

Yeah thats pretty clean if youre sticking to it religiously.
If thats yoyr diet and your bf is where ut is, id add in more cardio. Or less rest time between reps to keep heart rate elevated and calorie burning at a maximum.

My beginning weight was 156 I think. Ended at 190. Cut back to 175 or so now. Really liking my physique.
Like I said, when I started I was still pretty low bf. I had some visible abs. Just skinny boy abs. I didnt have a ton of lbm. And that was the goal of my bulk. Im not say just ng get smaller, im saying define out. Grow your lbm % and see where it gets you.
Whats your age/stats/sup history

 

[TxM22]

Yeah that seems to be the consensus to just get as lean as possible then run it. Looks like we have similar starting points. Im 30, 5' 9" and 180lbs. Deadlifts 315, Squats just under 300. I dont bb bench because of my bad shoulder but max rep with 90 dbs. Chest is my weak point. I did 5 weeks of hdrol many years ago and thats it.

 

[mgkoret]

Haha yeah man. I have a bad shoulder too. But I'm up to 235x2 as of yesterday which is the best ever for me. Hoping to hit 250 by May.
Tore my rotator cuff wrestling in Hs

That's a good base to work from though. Our deadlifts are about the same. Idk my max squat. I do explosion/momentum training so I don't max out on squats. More sleds though.

 

[Captn_the]

Id say you're skinny fat bro. Get a diet sorted out, smash food and weights for a year and see where you're at before hitting the GEARZ. Learning how to eat is the hardest part of GAINZ.

 

[TxM22]

Id say you're skinny fat bro. Get a diet sorted out, smash food and weights for a year and see where you're at before hitting the GEARZ. Learning how to eat is the hardest part of GAINZ.

I mean I am obviously carrying some fat but I wouldnt call myself skinny fat. Compared to your stats 6' 2" 230+ lbs, yeah, but im never going to genetically get that big or close to it.

 

[EatMoar]

I mean I am obviously carrying some fat but I wouldnt call myself skinny fat. Compared to your stats 6' 2" 230+ lbs, yeah, but im never going to genetically get that big or close to it.

With that attitude you'll never get anywhere. You don't know your genetic potential until you get your training, diet, and life style in check and dialed in. You'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.

 

[mgkoret]

With that attitude you'll never get anywhere. You don't know your genetic potential until you get your training, diet, and life style in check and dialed in. You'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.

Good advice here. I never thought id get as big as I am now, and in still not satisfied. It's a journey; but you need a solid base foundation to start from. I think your close; but maybe not quite there yet.

 

[Captn_the]

I mean I am obviously carrying some fat but I wouldnt call myself skinny fat. Compared to your stats 6' 2" 230+ lbs, yeah, but im never going to genetically get that big or close to it.

Not bagging your progress mate, but but the looks you're not even close to your genetic potential.

I'm not against ppl using gear, but it would be wasted on you at this stage.

With the right diet you'll put on a good 10lb of muscle easy - then hit the gears if you're so inclined to do so.

 

[aaronjwh250]

When they say get bigger that probablly mean more lbm when we say cut we mean cut bf%. . Bigger doesn't necessarily mean more weigh. And cutting doesn't mean you have to get smaller

nah that isn't correct. He is too small to start a cycle. They are referring to his base, the amount of lbm he has. he hasnt build a sufficient base and this is probably his firat real attempt to cut or actually reach a normal healthy bodyfat. 18-22% is way to high imo. Any amount of test is going to aromatize like crazy. That will cause lots of unhealthy side effects. High bp, libido issues, increased chlorestrol, greater heart problems, more diffucukt recovery post cycle. and not to mention if you cant even achieve a six pack while flexing your diet is probably terrible and needs to be disciplined. OP, you probably wont be happy with your cycle results even if you ran one. if your goal is to gain muscle you are more than likely going to gain even more fat by the time its over. And if you gain any muscle on cycle, you must keep your calories even higher post cycle unless you want all your hard earned muscles to fade away. there is a reason they are telling you not to go out and waste your money yet bro. there are better ways of doing things.

 

[TxM22]

Not bagging your progress mate, but but the looks you're not even close to your genetic potential.

I'm not against ppl using gear, but it would be wasted on you at this stage.

With the right diet you'll put on a good 10lb of muscle easy - then hit the gears if you're so inclined to do so.

No, I know. I wouldnt post pics or be on a forum if I didnt want the advice/critique. I realize I can get bigger than I am now. Ive been much bigger before with a lot less fat. Like I said I hit a bad streak and just let myself go. Been lifting again for about 5 months again so I know I can gain more. I started out pretty damn ecto so thats what I mean that I cant imagine being 230+.

Now my question is what is the benefit of waiting until you hit your potential? I always hear that but never see anyone post exactly why. Say I can hit my genetic potential in 2-3 years. Why wouldnt I want to drop this bf, run this cycle at 165-170lbs and get to my genetic potential in 1-2 cycles?

 

[mixedup]

Ok so from someone who is around competitors both natural and enhanced on a daily basis I can tell you that generally the people who reach their genetic potential naturally can hold it alot easier naturally. I don't think it's realistic to think your going take 1-2 cycles hit your genetic potential and be able to stay their naturally your body becomes accustomed to being that size based on unnatural hormone levels and will try to revert to its natural state once you come off. That's why you hardly ever see people do 1-2 cycles

 

[bean5er]

You are a long way from cycling. Learn how to eat and train. Drugs are not magic. They enhance. Judging off your progress thus far you do more harm than good cycling. I love testosterone, didn't start using it until I was 32. Your first cycle should be 250-300 mg of test a week. That's it! If one cannot make gains on this you have no right using hormones

 

[bean5er]

How tall are you?

 

[TxM22]

Im just a little over 5' 9". I think I am going to get my test levels checked by my doc because it is very difficult to gain muscle for me. I make progress but not like those around me. I lift with my friend who really knows his **** and is a bodybuilder and notices this too.

 

[bean5er]

Im just a little over 5' 9". I think I am going to get my test levels checked by my doc because it is very difficult to gain muscle for me. I make progress but not like those around me. I lift with my friend who really knows his **** and is a bodybuilder and notices this too.

Go ahead and do that but I'm 99% sure your nutrition is to blame. Everybody always says "nutrition is dialed or on point" and I'd say 80% of those people have no clue what they're doing. Look up mountaindogdiet.com and spend 9 bucks. Everything you need to know regarding this sport is there.

 

[EatMoar]

Go ahead and do that but I'm 99% sure your nutrition is to blame. Everybody always says "nutrition is dialed or on point" and I'd say 80% of those people have no clue what they're doing. Look up mountaindogdiet.com and spend 9 bucks. Everything you need to know regarding this sport is there.

This.

 

[mgkoret]

Good info here man. I have to agree I think this is diet driven IMO as well

 

[TxM22]

Like I said in my earlier post, this is what I eat:

I eat brown rice, oats, sweet potatoes and sometimes wheat bread for carbs.
Protein is whey, fish, shrimp, boneless skinless chicken, tilapia, tuna, ground turkey, eggs.
Fats include peanut butter, olive oil, avocados and mostly coconut butter when cooking. I don't count veggies into macros...mostly spinach and broccoli. I do carb reloads on weekends and include cheat meal.

I count calories and stick to this except my cheat meal on the weekend or switch it to mid-week on my Wed. off day. I am aware of adjusting my macros, meal timing and consuming enough to grow in proportion to my stats. Thats my point is that I do follow all of that and I still struggle.

 

[TxM22]

This has led me to assume I am not genetically predisposed to gain muscle like others or simply, my test levels are low.

 

[mgkoret]

All im saying is we all say this on here and I know we dont all follow this 24/7. Maybe it's true, maybe it's biased. If you really think it's hormone related get a full blood workout, not just test.

 

[bean5er]

You can eat all the right types of food but if they aren't dialed in to your needs as far as macros micros its useless. Do you know your tdee? My advice, lose some fat get down to around 10% or less then look at gaining properly, meaning not putting a ton of fat on. There is no reason to get over 12% when adding weight.

How old are you? Even if test is lower you can still make progress. I lost a **** ton of weight and got down to 8% with levels in the 200s. And yes when getting bloods get a full panel. Total test doesn't tell the whole story.
Some gain easier than others, I will not dispute that but to say your body is predisposed to not gain muscle is an excuse. Nutrient timing has changed to game for me personally, along with learning how to train with intensity. Both these things make a world of difference. Start reading and learning. Then apply it and toy around with different things and learn how you respond to training and nutrition before wasting your time with hormones.

 

[TxM22]

I did have my calories high because I was afraid over under eating since I was trying to make up for all the muscle mass I lost previously. I am currently cutting and will likely continue doing so until I am at a more favorable bf. Im 30, but not all low test levels is age related. Ill check into the full panel for blood work though. Im not saying I dont gain muscle, just that I am not predisposed to gain at the rate as others do.

I have always lifted as heavy as possible. Perhaps I should add more volume then?

Well, thanks everyone for all the great advice and very knowledgeable input. I will keep my test stashed away for now and keep training.

 

[mgkoret]

If I could give reps on mobile I would. This guy has it down. Argue all you want but he's right

 

[TxM22]

If I could give reps on mobile I would. This guy has it down. Argue all you want but he's right

Who is arguing here???

 

[bean5er]

Its all good guys chill. No ones arguing as far as I can tell. This is how you learn.
OP it is rare to have low test at younger ages, typically there are things causing it at that age which is why its important to not just let a doc put you on T without completely diagnosing you. I had low levels at 28 had a ton of factors contributing.

As far as diet and training, if you can afford 10 bucks a month subscribe to the site a mentioned you'll thank me later

Best of luck

 

[Captn_the]

Common theme: diet. Carb cycling highly recommended. Research priming - combined with above the most effective way to add lbm.

Personally I find a Paleo-style diet highly effective, but include a lot of high-fat dairy. Bulletproof diet, intermittent fasting, worth checking out.

 

[EatMoar]

Common theme: diet. Carb cycling highly recommended. Research priming - combined with above the most effective way to add lbm. Personally I find a Paleo-style diet highly effective, but include a lot of high-fat dairy. Bulletproof diet, intermittent fasting, worth checking out.

I like carb cycling, allocating carbs where needed.

 

[mgkoret]

I get great results from carb cycling

 

[TxM22]

Haha yeah man. I have a bad shoulder too. But I'm up to 235x2 as of yesterday which is the best ever for me. Hoping to hit 250 by May.
Tore my rotator cuff wrestling in Hs

That's a good base to work from though. Our deadlifts are about the same. Idk my max squat. I do explosion/momentum training so I don't max out on squats. More sleds though.

How are our lifts almost the same when you have run 2 cycles already and Im supposedly far from ever touching gear, and my diet isnt in check?

Seriously...not flaming

 

[mgkoret]

How are our lifts almost the same when you have run 2 cycles already and Im supposedly far from ever touching gear, and my diet isnt in check?

Seriously...not flaming

cycling doesn't mean the scar tissue and ligaments in my shoulder just healed over night. Our lifts may be similar on bench, because my injury could have been far more extensive than yours. Therefor the strength in my shoulder to support the weight may be less. Not necessarily strength, but knowing when to not push a weak link in the body.

 

[mixedup]

How are our lifts almost the same when you have run 2 cycles already and Im supposedly far from ever touching gear, and my diet isnt in check?

Seriously...not flaming

well he's done 2 cycles and your lifts are about the same. But... you both have pics up in this log even though your lifts are comparable he's carrying it appears he's carrying a god deal more muscle more vascularity and less bf% lifts are subject because that's based on what you train for. His body composition from pics shows at the moment his diet is alot more on point. Your diet might be on point your lifts may good and you may be ready for juice. Buy honestly if you really felt ready 100% you'd probably already be on instead of asking us don't you think?.

I mean we don't know you if you look at my log I have a before pic before I started my competition diet. I think I was probablly fatter than your pic. I would of got flamed to hell if I posted it asking bout cycling but approx 12 weeks later I have pics in there showing lower abs and veins popping from my shins to my delts

It's obvious no one on here is going to recommend cycling right now so you just have to decide for yourself

 

[EatMoar]

This thread makes me want to pin copious amounts of test, after I said I didn't want to cycle anymore. Thanks for the bad influence guys.