RPN Havoc Cycle Log

[YAYY]

Hey guys, I've decided I want to try a first cycle and log it so that others can use my experience for reference. I picked havoc because it's relatively mild in side effects, dry, and has a pretty good Q ratio. Details are below.

Supplements:
Havoc 30/30/30/30
DHEA 75/75/75/75 to keep my joints wet and my libido up. This should counteract the negative anti-estrogenic effects of havoc, while not providing enough estrogen to cause other problems.
Multivitamin
Chondroitin + glucosamine for joints
Fish oil (maybe)

Nolva 20/20/10/10 PCT
DAA 3g/3g/3g/3g PCT (maybe)

Current stats:
Height 5'9"
Weight 170-175
BF ~13%
Bench 285
Squat ~365 (275x8 without too much difficulty)
Deadlift 435
Overhead 160 5x5

General workout routine (subject to change based on needs and scheduling):
push / pull / rest / push / pull / rest / rest

Push = chest, anterior and lateral delts, triceps, all legs except for hamstrings, upper traps (from compound lifts)
Pull = all back, posterior delts, biceps, forearms, abs, hamstrings, upper traps (from compound lifts)

I also spend an average of 1.5 hours walking each day getting to work, gym, food, etc.

My routine focuses on both aesthetics and strength by varying weight, reps, sets, and rest intervals based on my goals for each lift/body part. Sometimes I emphasize certain muscle groups if I feel they are lagging. I use both compound and isolation lifts.

I'm going for a lean bulk at 3000-3500 calories with 200g protein per day.

I'll post before/after pics and workouts too, but later. My avatar pic is from a week ago if you want to get an idea of what my body composition is.

Let me know if you guys have any questions, thoughts, or suggestions.

 

[sinewave3]

Nice plan, looks like you have done your research. good luck!

 

[nbshazeezee]

Good to go.... Personally would run it longer. Have a good run homie.

 

[Driven2lift]

100% would suggest running it 6 weeks, it takes a while to kick in

Also DHEA won't do much for you, Dermacrine would be better suited IMO. Also I would pick up a support product to limit BP/toxicity sides

 

[Driven2lift]

Dermacrine (suggested as it is more effective than DHEA, and a mild "test base" in that it prevents lethargy)

http://orbitnutrition.com/cart/dermacrine-bps-same-as-pp-dermacrine.html

Example of a cycle support

http://orbitnutrition.com/cart/olympus-labs-ar1macare-pro-120-caps.html

 

[YAYY]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. The cycle support and dermacrine both look good, but I already have the DHEA, so I probably won't get the dermacrine.

Here is what I'm working with:

Ill post my first workout soon

 

[SChasEE]

In for this and +1 on running it 6 weeks

 

[A AesthetiX]

In for 6 weeks

 

[YAYY]

Well, it seems like everyone is pushing for 6 weeks, so I might buy another bottle in a couple weeks, depending on how I feel/gain. The dosing would then be something like 30/30/40/40/40/40. If I do that, I might do a 7th week of 20 to get rid of leftovers or go 50/50 for the last 2 weeks. However, this is my first cycle and I'm not sure how much the extra 2 weeks/stronger doses are gonna mess with my body, so I'm not quite comfortable buying more yet. We'll see...
Have you guys tried epi/havoc? If so, what doses and length did you run and what kinds of results did you get after PCT?

Current measurements in inches (R/L):

upper arm 15/14.75
chest at nipples 41
around deltoids 46.5
waist 32
butt 37
thigh 8" above top of kneecap 23.25/22.75
calves 15.75
neck 15
dong 9001

Day 1 workout:

incline bench 45x20, 95x10, 135x10, 185x6, 185x6, 185x8
calves on plate loaded leg press 270x30, 360x30, 450x20, 540x20, 540x20, drop 450x20 drop 360xfailure
front lunge (each leg) 45x10, 95x10, 135x8, 185x5, 225x3, 205x5, 205x5, 205x5, 205x5
DB shoulder press 40x10 superset with lateral raises 15x10 3 times
overhead tricep cable kickback (each arm) 80x10, 70x10, 70x10, 70x10
cable lateral raise 40x10 40x10, 40x10

After a little more than a year of doing mostly compound lifts, my arms started lagging behind my torso, so I'm currently using a lot of volume for all of my arm stuff.

 

[A AesthetiX]

Well, it seems like everyone is pushing for 6 weeks, so I might buy another bottle in a couple weeks, depending on how I feel/gain. The dosing would then be something like 30/30/40/40/40/40. If I do that, I might do a 7th week of 20 to get rid of leftovers or go 50/50 for the last 2 weeks. However, this is my first cycle and I'm not sure how much the extra 2 weeks/stronger doses are gonna mess with my body, so I'm not quite comfortable buying more yet. We'll see...
Have you guys tried epi/havoc? If so, what doses and length did you run and what kinds of results did you get after PCT?

Haha dude, this is like my EXACT first experience with Havoc, I planned 4 weeks and everyone like do 6! Trust us, you'll get to the end of week 3 (that's when it first starts kicking in for me personally, but everyone is different) and you'll just know you need to hit 6 weeks. But do what feels right for your body! You will not regret buying that 2nd bottle though.

My first run with EPI was that 6 weeks and PCT was a breeze using Nolva.

 

[clk]

not to sound gay, but damn...you have a nice sweep on your thighs. good job dude. im in to see how this turns out!

 

[YAYY]

Thanks clk! As far as I'm concerned, you guys can sound as gay as you want. I won't think any less of you.
Aesthetix, do you remember what kinds of gains you kept after PCT of your first epi run?

Day 3 workout:

Partner yoga session for the first time earlier today. Low back and hams already getting sore.

weight: 173.7

lat pulldown warmup 80x20, 140x10
weighted chins 55x5 (PR), 55x5, 55x5, 55x5, 55x4
Kroc rows (first time trying these) 60x10, 80x10, 85x10, 85x10, 85x10
lat pulldown to lower pecs on chest fly cable 250x10, 250x10, 250x12 (weights are lighter than reg. lat pulldown)
superset with
cable tricep pushdowns "pump sets" 110x10, 150x10, 150x10
high rows to upper chest on fly cable 150x10, 200x10, 200x10, 180x10
leg curls on machine with pins 80x10, 160x8, 160x8, 160x8
EZ bar preacher curls (weight on each side) 30x7, 30x7 30x5 slow negative and contraction at bottom until failure for last rep for each set

During every gym sesh I'll do a few of what I call pump sets for parts of the arm I'm not focusing on that day (a few bicep sets on push day or shoulder and/or tricep sets on pull day). I do them for 2 reasons. One, I feel that my arms are lagging, so I like to give them just a little more attention. Two, I want to even out my arm pump so I look as swole as possible while I'm in the gym and for a little while after.

Overall, I had a pretty normal workout. I'll probably be setting a lot of PRs in the weighted chins and Kroc rows, since they're both relatively new additions to my program. Push day tomorrow.

 

[A AesthetiX]

Thanks clk! As far as I'm concerned, you guys can sound as gay as you want. I won't think any less of you. Aesthetix, do you remember what kinds of gains you kept after PCT of your first epi run?

I'm going to be honest, no. I remember starting around 186 and ending around 198, I THINK I sat at around 195 for a while after PCT. My 2nd epi/trest cycle I gained to about 208 and didn't really lose anything but a pound or two.

The key, for me at least, is to eat way more during pct than I did during the actual cycle. That ALWAYS assures me that I keep the strength and size I put on.

 

[clk]

Haha dude, this is like my EXACT first experience with Havoc, I planned 4 weeks and everyone like do 6! Trust us, you'll get to the end of week 3 (that's when it first starts kicking in for me personally, but everyone is different) and you'll just know you need to hit 6 weeks. But do what feels right for your body! You will not regret buying that 2nd bottle though.

My first run with EPI was that 6 weeks and PCT was a breeze using Nolva.

just curious, did you feel any brain fog or anything like that on that cycle? i just had to end a super dmz cycle because it wasnt working for me. this is pretty much the only time i can run a cycle because im not in school. i start school again in january. i was looking for a cycle that wont inhibit me from thinking clearly and basically turn me into a foggy headed retard.

same question for the OP. feeling foggy at all yet? could you effectively ingest and digest information without being foggy?

 

[clk]

i think a lot of guys (especially if its their first cycle) lose weight after their pct because they dont adjust their diet for their new found bodyweight. if your 190, get on cycle and get to 2000, but still eat like your 190, well, your gonna go back to 190 after you cycle off. if you want to be a 200 pound man, eat the nutrition for a 200 pound man. regardless if you weigh that much yet or not

 

[A AesthetiX]

just curious, did you feel any brain fog or anything like that on that cycle? i just had to end a super dmz cycle because it wasnt working for me. this is pretty much the only time i can run a cycle because im not in school. i start school again in january. i was looking for a cycle that wont inhibit me from thinking clearly and basically turn me into a foggy headed retard.

Foggy headed.. not so much. Lethargy? Holy **** it was bad. When I ran Epistane solo, by around week 4 I didn't want to do ANYTHING! It was awful.. Once I ran it with TR3ST I had no lethargy issues whatsoever.

 

[clk]

Foggy headed.. not so much. Lethargy? Holy **** it was bad. When I ran Epistane solo, by around week 4 I didn't want to do ANYTHING! It was awful.. Once I ran it with TR3ST I had no lethargy issues whatsoever.

okay thanks. so tr3st + epi = no lethargy? for you at least.

 

[sinewave3]

i think a lot of guys (especially if its their first cycle) lose weight after their pct because they dont adjust their diet for their new found bodyweight. if your 190, get on cycle and get to 2000, but still eat like your 190, well, your gonna go back to 190 after you cycle off. if you want to be a 200 pound man, eat the nutrition for a 200 pound man. regardless if you weigh that much yet or not

Excellent advice! I was stuck in the 180s for a looong time but that's because I hadn't bumped up my maintenance calories. I was stuck thinking that close to 3000 cals was bulking but in reality it had become my new maintenance. Now I have to be hitting 3500 to put on the lbs

 

[YAYY]

clk, I'm still feeling relatively normal mentally, except for feeling a little tired, but that's a regular thing for me since I average 6ish hours of sleep. 8 hours is nice, but getting things done is nicer.

I was gonna do push day today, but a lot of my body is sore from yoga. It was more intense than I expected. I recommend it for everyone because it promotes flexibility, cardiac health, and a calm mind if you treat it as a meditative exercise.

Push will happen tomorrow. Bout to set some PRs! :head:

 

[sinewave3]

Lol yoga always makes me sore. When I am sore from lifting I stretch, but what can you do when you are sore from yoga/stretching?!?

 

[YAYY]

You lift!

Day 5 workout

weight 176.3 (!) +3 from start, most I've ever weighed

flat bench 45x15, 95x10, 135x10, 185x8, 225x3, 255x1, 285x1, 285x1(failure)
calves on plate loaded leg press (all very slow reps) 180xalot, 270x20, 360x20, 450x20, 450x20, 450x20 (the burnnnn!)
standing bb overhead press 45x15, 95x10, 155x5, 155x5, 135x8
cable tricep pushdown 80x10, 170x10, 170x10, 170x8
cable overhead tricep 70x10, 70x10
db farmers' walks 80sx near failure distance, 80s x nearer to failure
lunges (each leg) 45x10, 95x10, 155x8, 185x5
bb curls (pump set) 45x20, 45x20

Pretty mediocre workout overall. Normally I give my delts and legs more work. During lunges I got this weird feeling in my left thigh that felt kind of like a lactic acid burn that wouldn't go away. I've never felt it before and I'm not really sure what it means, so I cut the lunges short.

Normally I'd do back squats instead of lunges, but I'm recovering from a pulled erector (lower back), so no heavy squats. Front squats are fine though. I'll do some tomorrow to make up for today's relative lack of legs.

My side delts always get sore from farmers walks. I think it's because I have narrow shoulders and I have to hold the dbs out a little so they don't bump into my body. Does anyone else experience this?

The quick jump in weight was pretty cool to see. I barely broke 3k calories per day since my last weigh-in, so it's probably the gear doing its thing. I'm guessing the weight is glycogen and only a little water, since havoc is anti-estrogenic. I'm likely not putting on muscle or fat that quick yet.

In spite of my diet being the same as it was pre-havoc, I've been pooping less (you're welcome). I suppose this makes sense because gear makes your body utilize nutrients more efficiently. I'm not sure if that's actually how it works though.

I've been noticing some lethargy. I really want to sleep a lot during work, which is kind of unusual. I feel myself needing more than the usual (too much) amount of caffeine. Also getting some minor acne on my chest that I can't attribute to havoc just yet. Face is still normal.

No significant gains so far, except for weight.

 

[clk]

my delts also get pretty sore from farmers walks. i think that when you do them, its almost a natural tendency to pull the weight away from your body. i do the same thing even when im bringing in groceries. i dont really know though. just a thought.

 

[clk]

I've been noticing some lethargy. I really want to sleep a lot during work, which is kind of unusual. I feel myself needing more than the usual (too much) amount of caffeine. Also getting some minor acne on my chest that I can't attribute to havoc just yet. Face is still normal. .

to battle the lethargy, you could try caffeine anhydrous. its basically dehydrated caffeine in a pure, pharmaceutical form. the effects of it lasts much longer than typical caffeine. for instance, you drink a cup of coffee with 100mg of caffeine. two hours, or so, later, the effects are gone and you have to get another cup. ingesting more and more caffeine. well, 100mg of anhydrous caffeine will last MUCH longer. although its still the same amount. so really, you need less to do more. i bought some off of ebay. works great. not good for lifting like you would think. but it tastes like absolute ****. ive tried to mask the flavor by putting it in juice, Gatorade, lemonade etc still tastes like a bag of ass holes.

http://www.powdercity.com/products/caffeine-anhydrous

 

[mountainman33]

to battle the lethargy, you could try caffeine anhydrous. its basically dehydrated caffeine in a pure, pharmaceutical form. the effects of it lasts much longer than typical caffeine. for instance, you drink a cup of coffee with 100mg of caffeine. two hours, or so, later, the effects are gone and you have to get another cup. ingesting more and more caffeine. well, 100mg of anhydrous caffeine will last MUCH longer. although its still the same amount. so really, you need less to do more. i bought some off of ebay. works great. not good for lifting like you would think. but it tastes like absolute ****. ive tried to mask the flavor by putting it in juice, Gatorade, lemonade etc still tastes like a bag of ass holes.

http://www.powdercity.com/products/caffeine-anhydrous

Just need a test base. Dermcrine would be the way to go:

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/dermacrine-by-bps

 

[YAYY]

The DHEA is supposed to be a test base, but by all accounts, the oral version (which I'm taking) is not as effective as transdermal. So a few days ago I doubled the DHEA dose from 75 to 150 and since then I've had a normal amount of energy. Hopefully it will stay.

Day 6 workout

weight 176.6 (I poo'd twice today. something is happening)

lat pulldown warmup 80x20, 160x10
weighted chins 55x5, 55x5, 55x5
full rack lat pulldown (just because) 250x2
db Kroc row 45x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10 (PR)
front squat 45x15, 95x15, 135x15
concentration curls, no rest between arms 30x10, 30x10, 30x8 (little ROM by the end)
very slow low back hyperextensions BWx10, BWx10, BWx10 (these are for rehab and some ham activation. decent back pump, but nothing unusual yet)
EZ bar curl to failure (weight on each side) 32.5x16 (failure)

Wasn't really feeling motivated in the gym today. I get about 2-3 days a month when that happens. I'll hit it hard next time.

Most of my body is sore, so these next 2 rest days will do me some good. IDK if this is unusual, but I get sore after every workout, no exceptions. It has always been that way.

 

[YAYY]

Day 9 workout

Weight 176.6 (only had most of 1 meal before weighing, which less than before usual weigh-in)

dips BWx10 (warmup)
bb military press 45x20, 95x10, 135x6, 165x4, 165x3, 165x3 I was really bummed after this lift because I've been stuck at a 5RM of 165 for over 6 months, and even though I gained mass and am gearing, I couldn't break the plateau. Oh well... Maybe it was because I ate half as much as usual before working out. And the gear probably isn't working much yet.

calves on plate loaded leg press (fast reps with short pause at bottom) 360x20, 450x20, 540x20, 630x20 drop 540x15 drop 450x15 drop 360x10 drop 270x10
fly cable high row (handle to chest) 90x15, 180x10, 220x10, 200x10
tricep pushdown 100x15, 180x10, 150x10 slow, 150x10 slow
cable lateral raise 40x10, 40x10
db 1 arm shoulder press 55x8, 55x8, 55x8
1 arm db skullcrusher 30x10, 30x10
concentration curl (pump set) 30x12
ez bar preacher curl (pump set) 25 each side x10

Felt kinda ****ty after the military, but the good vibes came back after calves. I felt stronger on calves and biceps today. Calves feel like they have infinite ammo.

Doubling the DHEA made the lethargy go away.

Measured my arms today before lifting. Gained undeniable 1/4 inch on both. yay!

 

[YAYY]

Day 10 no workout

I've noticed that since starting, I've had less appetite. It's been difficult getting past 3k calories, although I make it most days (my natural eating is about 2500/day).
Also, despite gaining weight, my lower abs seem a little more visible than they were when I started. I dig that. No real strength gains yet though.
Recovery feels improved. I'm not sore at all from yesterday's workout. I'm at least a little sore almost every single day.

Ordering another bottle this week. Depending on how things work out with a new lady friend, I might up the dose and run it an extra 2 weeks. If performance gets worse or I feel shutdown enough that PCT is gonna make things hard, (soft actually I'll stop the run at 4 weeks and use the other bottle to recomp during late winter or spring.

I've discovered the effect of carbs on muscle size. Yesterday I barely broke 2k calories because I was really busy, and this morning my arms were back where they started. After eating chipotle and leftover BD's, my arms are back up to +1/4 inch from start. Until now, I've never noticed a within-day difference in muscle size (I've measured twice in a day before), so I'm thinking the havoc is making my muscles store more glycogen.

Gonna do mostly pull-related things tomorrow with lunges and incline bench thrown in.

 

[YAYY]

Day 11 workout

weight 175.9

This whole day I've had pain where my thumb and wrist meet. It's been a mild, ongoing thing for the last 5 or so years, around when I started playing trumpet. Today it was the worst it's ever been and idk why. It normally hurts when I bend my wrist towards my thumb and when I extend my thumb in the same direction. it also hurt whenever I grabbed anything thick and heavy today, like a barbell with weight, or when I held my weight on chins. Because of this I did fewer sets and less weight with some exercises.

incline bench 45xalot, 95x15, 135x10, 205x4, 185x7
lat pulldown warmup 80x15, 150x10
weighted chin 55x5 This felt significantly easier than normal, but I didn't want to continue because it was hurting my hand/wrist
wide grip pullup BWx10, BWx10, BWx7
fly cable lat pulldown to lower chest 240x10, 240x10, 180x10 slow
Kroc row 60x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10 These felt a lot easier too, I'll move up next pull sesh

lunge 95x12, 135x10, 185x5 I think I'm done with these. my balance on my left side limits me from doing as much weight as my legs can push. Losing your balance with a weighted bar on your back is pretty dangerous and very uncomfortable.

back squat (very slow ATG reps) 135x10, 155x10, 185x10 my back has been feeling a bit better, but it's not fully recovered, so I'll do sets of 15 slow reps light weight starting next time and move up like 5 lbs each time

EZ bar preacher curls (weight on each side) 10x10, 30x10 PR, 30x7, 30x5, 30x2 drop 20x5 drop 10x5 these were super effective!
tricep pushdown pump sets 100x10, 150x15 this gave me barely any pump

I had a workout partner today and he said that I'm noticeably bigger in my lats, arms, and shoulders since around 3 weeks ago. Yess!

I feel like I have a little more gas in the tank for each gym sesh. I find myself wanting to add volume.

I think I'm starting to notice improvements in strength, stamina, and recovery. It's still kind of subtle, but I'm making gains faster than normal and everything feels a little easier. My temper might be a little shorter also. The pain in my hand made me kind of angry for a few minutes. I didn't make a scene or anything, but I felt like grunting/yelling because I was upset.

I ordered a bottle of ironflex brawn today. I still don't know if I'll use it during this cycle.

Let me know if you guys have any thoughts related to anything I've written so far. The purpose of this log is for education, so if there is anything you'd like to add, or something you disagree with, feel free.

 

[clk]

can you do front squats with your wrist hurting? it would be better, in my opinion at least, than doing the squats. front squats are awesome for targeting the quads. ive never been a fan of lunges. they just dont feel right for me.

 

[clk]

also, have you tried wrapping your wrist with wrist wraps? not the ****ty ones you get at academy, walmart etc. some really good wraps. like mark bells gangster wraps. might help with the wrist pain. i was shot through the wrist in iraq. after rehab and all that jazz, i thought it healed well. then i started lifing heavy again and it started hurting like a mofo! so i tried my friends wraps and it helped a lot. didnt completely cure it of pain when lifting. but absolutely made it tolerable.

 

[YAYY]

The front squats hurt in the clean position, but I suppose I could try the crossed arms. I like how front squats feel in my core and middle back. They basically force me to have good posture. I've been meaning to do them more too.

Hmm, I haven't. It sounds like a good idea though. If I plan to stay in the lifting game for the rest of my life, which I do, I'm bound to have some wrist and knee issues. I think I'll give the wraps a shot.

I appreciate your service.

 

[clk]

front squats will kill your core. my deep, inner core is always really sore after i do front squats. its great. the wraps are worth a shot. they are pretty cheap. may as well try them.

thanks. my pleasure.

 

[YAYY]

Day 13 workout

weight 176.9

standing bb overhead press 45x20, 95x10, 135x6, 165x5, 165x5 (PR), 165x5, 165x5 YESS BROKE A 6 MONTH PLATEAU
calves on leg press (slow reps with pause at full contraction) 450x15, 450x15, 450x15, 450x15, 450x15
db shoulder press 45x10 supersetted with lateral raises 15x10 3 times PR and easier than last time
tricep pushdown 100x15, 180x10, 150x10 slow, 150x8 slow, 150x6 slow (reached failure)
back squat (low, slow, and controlled) 45x15, 95x10, 135x10, 185x10, 185x10, 185x10, 135x10 (pause at bottom) These were surprisingly difficult, although my legs still weren't pushed very hard.

bb curl pump set 45x20

All of a sudden, my delts are significantly stronger. This is good news!

My hand felt normal. Also good news! However, I've been noticing a few more minor joint aches than normal. Left knee and left shoulder feel a little something, but it's not to the point where I'd call it painful. This might have to do with havoc's anti-estrogen properties. I think the estro is at least mostly in control though, since my libido is normal and my joints are pretty much normal.

I was gonna do some front squats today, but I don't think I could've handled it after all the tri and delt work.

Since my deadlift injury, I haven't worked my lower back much, so it's gotten a bit weaker. After doing squats today I realized how much work the lower back actually does during squats. I never felt squats much in my lower back until today. My lower back feels completely spent right now, 2.5 hrs after the workout.

My back felt a pretty normal muscle pump during and after the squats, but after I got home and sat in my chair for a while I felt a dull ache near my spine (lower) on both sides that didn't go away until I laid down for a bit. It didn't feel like usual pain from my pulled muscle. Was this the notorious back pump? I always imagined back pumps to be like regular muscle pumps, just a lot more intense and to the point of pain. Lower back pumps are kind of intense to begin with.

I think it's starting to work! I'm stronger and look a little leaner, yet bigger. So far, havoc seems best for me as a tool for recomp or cutting. I find that I don't want to eat much when I'm on it. I feel like I'm forcing food inside me against my body's desires.

Gonna up some weights tomorrow

 

[A AesthetiX]

Day 13 workout weight 176.9 standing bb overhead press 45x20, 95x10, 135x6, 165x5, 165x5 (PR), 165x5, 165x5 YESS BROKE A 6 MONTH PLATEAU calves on leg press (slow reps with pause at full contraction) 450x15, 450x15, 450x15, 450x15, 450x15 db shoulder press 45x10 supersetted with lateral raises 15x10 3 times PR and easier than last time tricep pushdown 100x15, 180x10, 150x10 slow, 150x8 slow, 150x6 slow (reached failure) back squat (low, slow, and controlled) 45x15, 95x10, 135x10, 185x10, 185x10, 185x10, 135x10 (pause at bottom) These were surprisingly difficult, although my legs still weren't pushed very hard. bb curl pump set 45x20 All of a sudden, my delts are significantly stronger. This is good news! My hand felt normal. Also good news! However, I've been noticing a few more minor joint aches than normal. Left knee and left shoulder feel a little something, but it's not to the point where I'd call it painful. This might have to do with havoc's anti-estrogen properties. I think the estro is at least mostly in control though, since my libido is normal and my joints are pretty much normal. I was gonna do some front squats today, but I don't think I could've handled it after all the tri and delt work. Since my deadlift injury, I haven't worked my lower back much, so it's gotten a bit weaker. After doing squats today I realized how much work the lower back actually does during squats. I never felt squats much in my lower back until today. My lower back feels completely spent right now, 2.5 hrs after the workout. My back felt a pretty normal muscle pump during and after the squats, but after I got home and sat in my chair for a while I felt a dull ache near my spine (lower) on both sides that didn't go away until I laid down for a bit. It didn't feel like usual pain from my pulled muscle. Was this the notorious back pump? I always imagined back pumps to be like regular muscle pumps, just a lot more intense and to the point of pain. Lower back pumps are kind of intense to begin with. I think it's starting to work! I'm stronger and look a little leaner, yet bigger. So far, havoc seems best for me as a tool for recomp or cutting. I find that I don't want to eat much when I'm on it. I feel like I'm forcing food inside me against my body's desires. Gonna up some weights tomorrow

Congrats on the PR brotha! There's many more to come

 

[soul0wner]

Caught up and subbed!

 

[YAYY]

Thanks soul0wner! I haven't been able to hit the gym in a couple days because it's closed for the holidays. The college kids that work there just finished finals and are on break. So I gotta find another gym to lift at for the next couple weeks. Hopefully I'll be able to lift tomorrow.

I think doing those really slow and paused squats were actually worse for my back than doing them fast. My lower back was destroyed yesterday, and it didn't feel like usual muscle soreness. Today it feels pretty normal though. Maybe I'm just not used to lower back work. I think I'll do reps at normal speed and slowly ramp up the weight. I might use a belt for >2 plates.

No changes otherwise. Aggression, libido, and energy level are all normal. It's strange how I have very little appetite though. I barely have any desire to eat, even when body is hungry and my tummy rumbles. It's hard eating at a caloric surplus, but I think I'm still at least a little above maintenance.

I should see some major changes this week. I'm excited!

 

[YAYY]

Day 17 workout

New gym today (yesterday), by where my parents live. Weights and exercises are different. This was also a morning sesh, which I don't like because I'm not a morning person and I had only one meal. Since this workout was yesterday and I just came back from today's workout, the details aren't as fresh in my mind, but I'll do my best.

wide grip pullup BWx10, BWx10, BWx10
Kroc row 45x10, 95x10, 95x8, 95x8 PR
low back hyperextension, slow and pause/squeeze at very top BWx10, BWx10, BWx10
tricep pushdown pump sets 100x10, 150x10, 150x10 (harder than ones at usual gym)
concentration curls, no rest between arms 30x10, 30x10, 30x10
leg curl ?x10, ?x10, ?x10
t-bar row, pause/squeeze at top 45x10, 90x10, 90x10, 45x10
rear delt fly/rows (each hand) 40x10, 40x10, 35x10 these are like bent rows, except I bring my elbows out and to a 90 degree angle

I might've missed some stuff.

This workout doesn't look very intense compared to normal, but I felt my back already getting sore toward the end of the day. This morning the soreness is almost completely gone, which is unusual.

I felt kind of weak, probably because it was a morning workout and I don't really like being awake in the morning.

I think I feel the havoc taking its toll on my joints. My shoulders and knees feel a little worse. The shoulders have a lot of little crackles and pops at the edge of their ROM and my right shoulder, which has never had any problems, sometimes feels a very slight pain only when it starts moving suddenly. It doesn't feel injured though.

Throughout this journey, I've been getting morning wood almost every day. Normally It's kind of a rare thing. I'm thinking it might be the DHEA since havoc is not very androgenic.

I went bowling the night of this workout. When I was not doing great at the beginning, I felt a distinct desire to attack/break something. Instantaneous anger when my shot didn't make its mark. Nothing worrisome though. I'm normally not a fan of mediocrity, but I think I got a little more upset than usual. I didn't make a scene or anything and I managed to do better towards the end of the first and during the next game.

 

[YAYY]

Day 18 workout

Got a 1 week membership at a different gym than the one I went to yesterday. Today is the first day at that place.

Incline bench 45x25, 95x15, 135x10, 205x5, 205x5 (PR), 205x5 This was a pretty big PR. I don't know if I've even done 205x5 for one set before. Today I felt like I could've gotten 8 reps on the first set and probably at least 7 on the second. Big jump in strength.

calves on hip sled 0xa lot, 90xa lot, 180x25, 270x20, 360x20, 360x20, 360x20 The angle of my legs and back on the hip sled compared to the leg press caused my calves to feel much more stretched, which made the weight harder. I didn't feel like I really challenged my calves today though.

standing bb overhead press (short rest intervals) 45x10, 95x10, 135x10, 125x10, 125x8
front squat 45x15 wasn't feeling these after a tricep pump
concentration curl pump sets (no rest between arms) 30x10, 30x10
simultaneous crunch and knee raise on floor BWx30, BWx20, BWx20 This made me realize how weak my abs are. It's kinda strange because they're pretty developed/visible from older times. I really gotta start doing these again. They are great for my entire midsection, including the lower abs. I'm pretty sure I got the most intense ab pump of my life after doing these. Maybe the havoc is making the pumps more intense

hack squat machine to parallel 0x15, 90x10, 180x10, 270x10, 270x10 These feel easy but uncomfortable. I don't really like them
leg press machine whole stack to 90 degree knees 400x10, 400x15, 400x15, 400x10 Also felt pretty easy and less uncomfortable. Massive pump in my thighs.

db shoulder press superset 40x10 with lateral raises 20x10 only one set because of time
db tricep kickback with pause/squeeze at full contraction 20x10

Incline bench went up a lot. GAINSS

Shoulders feeling a little dry. No knee issues.

It kinda sucks not being able to do squats. Nothing works my legs even close to as well. Maybe lunges but the lack of balance worries me. My back has been consistently hurting since august, when I injured it. I was told by a doc that the pain should be gone within a month of the initial injury, but it's been way longer. I think I'm gonna do physical therapy :/

Definitely leaning up in the mirror. Abs more visible. Haven't weighed myself in a little while.

 

[A AesthetiX]

Yeah man, I just started week 3 of Epi.. joints are a problem and I'm taking 6 fishoil pills per day, I'll probably up it to 9. It's to be expected though.

 

[mountainman33]

Yeah man, I just started week 3 of Epi.. joints are a problem and I'm taking 6 fishoil pills per day, I'll probably up it to 9. It's to be expected though.

And you aren't having stomach/intestinal issues?

 

[clk]

Thanks soul0wner! I haven't been able to hit the gym in a couple days because it's closed for the holidays. The college kids that work there just finished finals and are on break. So I gotta find another gym to lift at for the next couple weeks. Hopefully I'll be able to lift tomorrow.

I think doing those really slow and paused squats were actually worse for my back than doing them fast. My lower back was destroyed yesterday, and it didn't feel like usual muscle soreness. Today it feels pretty normal though. Maybe I'm just not used to lower back work. I think I'll do reps at normal speed and slowly ramp up the weight. I might use a belt for >2 plates.

No changes otherwise. Aggression, libido, and energy level are all normal. It's strange how I have very little appetite though. I barely have any desire to eat, even when body is hungry and my tummy rumbles. It's hard eating at a caloric surplus, but I think I'm still at least a little above maintenance.

I should see some major changes this week. I'm excited!

if its hard getting down some calories, get a half (or full) gallon of whole milk and drink it over time. its high in calories and everything else you need. i do that from time to time when im running errands and cant get to a solid meal. right now is not a time you want to miss out on calories. you want to take it all in so you get the most possible effect from the cycle.

 

[YAYY]

Day 21 workout

I was planning on going yesterday, but silly me forgot it was Christmas. Short session today, gym closed early. Had shorter rest intervals across the board. Will make up for lack of volume tomorrow.

Weight 175 naked before breakfast

flat bench 45x20, 95x20, 135x15, 225x8 225 definitely felt easier than last time, although I couldn't quite get the 9th rep and PR. Forgot to use leg drive/glute squeeze though
wide grip pull up, full ROM BWx12, BWx12, BWx12
Kroc row 80x10
db shoulder press 45x10 supersetted with lateral raises 20x10 3 times

Took some pics today. Definitely bigger and leaner than a month ago. Abs #5 and 6 are becoming visible for the first time in about a year.

My mom asked me if I'm on steroids. lol

So I've been doing some thinking, and I've decided that I'm ending the cycle at 4 weeks. Here's why:
1. Based on my research, increasing the dose and duration will likely provide diminishing returns. It seems that finishing this cycle at 4 weeks, going through PCT, and doing another 4 week cycle with PCT later will provide more net gain than using all of my epi/havoc on a single 6 week cycle.
2. Doing 2 cycles with recovery time in between should, in theory, minimize the extent of liver damage.
3. I'm worried that a large shutdown will interfere with my adventures with women. Smaller shutdown = less impairment and quicker recovery. Smaller cycles minimize risk of sexual side effects happening at any point.

I think I'll annihilate my legs tomorrow.

 

[YAYY]

Day 26 I think

I've had a couple workouts in the last few days, but I don't remember the details now. I'll do a better job once I go back to my old gym soon.

I think I'm starting to feel the shutdown. Significantly less desire for sex than at the beginning. Nuts might be smaller too. Should've measured them at the beginning.

Mood's been a little worse. Nothing terrible, but I feel more apathetic about most things.

More intense pumps at the gym, sometimes to the point of discomfort. I did some light squats and my lower back was really tight after each set. I had to let the pump die a little before doing each next set. Calves got painfully tight after seated raises too, which never happens.

Eh

 

[mountainman33]

Taurine, you're going to need a boat load of taurine.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/taurine-by-primaforce

 

[YAYY]

Day 28

weight 177.2

It's good to be back at my usual gym!

lat pulldown 70xa lot for warmup
chin up BWx12
Kroc rows 45x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
rear delt rows (elbow makes 90 degree angle at top) 45x10, 45x10, 45x10
concentration curl 35x10 (PR), 35x10, 35x8 hold/squeeze at full contraction ROM was getting worse at the top
tricep pushdown 70x15, 150x10, 170x10, 170x10
fly cable lat pulldown to lower chest 250x10, 250x12, 250x10 these felt too easy

Workout was cut short because the gym closed.

Back pumps during kroc rows. Not unbearable, just a little uncomfortable.

 

[YAYY]

Day 29

weight 177.6

When I went home for the new year, I forgot to bring my goodies, so I still have a couple days of cycle left.

incline bench 45xa lot, 95x15, 135x10, 205x6 (PR), 205x6, 185x9 (PR) There was a 10th rep, but the spotter spotted so it doesn't count
db shoulder press superset with lateral raise 45x8/20x8, 45x10/20x10, 45x10/20x10 This was surprisingly hard. I should've expected that after doing incline
fly cable curls (1 pulley) 70x10, 110x10, 120x10 Torso leaning back to put optimal tension on biceps
fly cable tricep pushdown 170x10, 170x10, 170x10

Gonna do legs and core tomorrow.

So far my 6 rep incline bench is up by 20lb in the last month. Not bad.

It's kind of strange how I do minimal volume for chest, yet my bench press and pecs grow at least as fast as my other lifts/muscles. I do only 1 chest exercise (bench press) twice a week, usually incline because I feel my lower chest is more developed than my upper. No flies or isolations and my bench grip has always been pretty narrow. Still, the chest is the first thing people notice and always have. It feels like my chest needs very little stimulation to grow and get stronger. I wish my arms were like that... Does that happen to other people?

 

[mountainman33]

Does that happen to other people?

No! You b@stard!

 

[YAYY]

Lol I'm sorry.

Day 30

Weight 178.7 Today was the first time I got 2 meals in before lifting. Feelin good

back squat 45x15, 95x15, 135x10, 185x10, 225x10, 225x15 (PR) Never tried that many reps with 2 plates before, so I guess it's a PR
seated calf raise 135x20, 135x15, 135x12 Explode from bottom, pause at top, slow negative. Super effective!
machine leg curl 60x15, 90x10, 90x10 Did these very slow. solid burn and pump

I came into the gym feeling pretty aggressive. Maybe because I took a havoc dose about an hr before coming. Felt some contempt towards the guy next to me squatting with weak ROM. I generally feel contempt when I see people "cheating" on bench or squat by not having full ROM. That's probably bad. Some people might have good reasons for not squatting as low. But some people put 4+ plates on the bar and squat down 3 inches. That makes me shake my head.

Back was feeling almost completely pain-free, so I decided to go a little heavier on squats. The back pump I got after the set of 15 was surreal. I've never felt anything like that before. It wasn't painful, but it was almost obscenely intense. My legs felt detached from my body and I felt like I could fall over at any second. I was walking funny for a while. Strangely, I kind of liked it. I was waddling after calves.

I was surprised how easy the set of 15 felt. My legs definitely had more in the tank. My cardio is what really limits me on squats. And my lower back, but I'm hoping that's a temporary thing.

Even though the volume was pretty light today, I'm pretty destroyed. I'm sure that will change once I start squatting consistently again.

Last day of havoc tomorrow. I'll post pics a few days into PCT. So far 5-6 lbs gain with loss of some belly fat. Decent strength gains too. I think I'll test some maxes towards the end of PCT.

 

[YAYY]

PCT day 2

weight 178.4

Kroc row 45x10, 95x10 (PR), 95x10, 95x10
rear delt row (elbow to right angle away from body) 50x10 (PR), 50x10
fly cable lat pulldown to nips 120x10, 250x12, 250x12, 250x10
overhead 1 arm cable tricep extension 50x10, 80x10, 80x10, 80x10 (or was it 70?)
concentration curl 30x10, 30x10, 30x10 hold/squeeze last rep to failure
seated calves 90x20, 135x15, 135x15, 135x15 slow negative, explode up, pause at top

It seems like some of the havoc effects have recently gotten stronger, even though I stopped taking it. Walking to work in the morning recently started giving me insane calf (soleus area) pumps that make one of my feet numb if I don't rest for a bit. Also noticed more back pump during db rows.

I might be developing tendonitis in my left forearm. When I do a pressing motion or apply force to a supinated wrist, I feel some pressure-like pain on the outside of my forearm right along the bone. the pain is very mild right now and it goes away after I warm up, but it has been slowly and steadily developing.

Either I wasn't very shut down to begin with, and/or the tamoxifen is working very quickly. I woke up with middle-of-the-night wood, which is unusual for me. Sex drive does seem a little reduced from when I started the cycle, but not a lot.

 

[YAYY]

PCT day 3

weight 178.6

Feeling a little demotivated today. It was already 10ish when I started.

incline bench 45x?, 95x15, 135x10, 205x6, 135x13, 135x8 slow
db lateral raise 20x10, 20x10, 20x10, 20x10 drop 15x10 drop 10x10 The burn! I think I'm gonna do more drop sets.
concentration curl 30x15, 30x13, 30x10 drop 25x10 drop 20x10
leg curl (pin+stack) 70x10, 140x10, 140x15, 140x10, 100x10 slow I can work a lot harder with these, but they're not as fun as other lifts
leg extensions (pin+stack) 60x10, 110x10, 140x10, 170x10, 210x10, 250x10, 250x10 drop 190x10 drop 140x10 This was my first time trying these

I don't think I really like leg extensions. They're uncomfortable on the knees and I feel them mostly in the teardrop, which I think needs the least attention on my legs. They can definitely be useful for busting plateaus, bb isolation, and when squats aren't an option. However, I think squats are a better exercise to do in most situations. I have gotten some pretty good quad gains without ever isolating them.

I'll post some pics and measurements tomorrow.