Trenavar or Halo?

[sgubinshreds]

I'm looking to do my next cycle (first was epistane). I am trying to decide between trenavar or halo.

I'm looking to put on mass with little to no water retention. Any one have any advice on which one is better or had any experience with either?

 

[Mperkins]

if your first was epi how about an epi/tren combo? that would be great IMO.

age?
weight
height

 

[Mystere3]

I'd run halo, a lot of ppl don't tolerate tren well.

 

[drinkyboy]

Halo is nice

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Both will suit your goals well. H-drol will stress your liver more but some people don't tolerate trendione well.

 

[sgubinshreds]

23, 5'11 and 190

Cool, I will look into the epi/tren combo. I just like to keep things simple/easier on the liver and would prefer to stick with just one. Looks like a lot of people don't tolerate the tren to well. Have you had any experience with either?

 

[g0hardorgohom]

23, 5'11 and 190

Cool, I will look into the epi/tren combo. I just like to keep things simple/easier on the liver and would prefer to stick with just one. Looks like a lot of people don't tolerate the tren to well. Have you had any experience with either?

I've ran both and injectable trenbolone as well.

Epi is my favourite steroid of all time - I think it's better than Dbol, M-Sten and M1,4ADD. Very versatile product, gives me big gains without bloat. Side effects are pretty much non-existent.

I can tolerate Tren pretty well - I've never needed any kind of prolactin antagonists. Injectable trenbolone at 350mg/week disturbed my sleep a bit but you'd need to run trendione pretty high to match that dose of injectable trenbolone.

Nutri-verse.com is having pretty good deals of Epi and Tren. Olympus Labs EP15TANE and TR3N Shredd3d stack for less than 90USD if I recall right - and 10% off with a discount code for first time customers. Products are generously dosed so Shredd3d stack would be enough for a cycle like this:

- Epi 30/45/45/45/45/45
- Tren 60/60/60/60/60/90

Olympus Labs lineup also has great cycle support and PCT products in Nutriverse store.

 

[FitnessLuke]

If youre going to do Halodrol stack it with a test base. I regret not doing so. I made about 12 lbs of gains and lost 3. Was really lean on it, but still not very impressed. Honestly eating a lot of food and maintaining a clean diet would have given me very similar gains in my opinion. I ran all the way to 125mgs did 6 week cycle. No extra gym aggression(which I want) PCT was a breeze with nolva. Balls bigger than before my cycle by the end of week one. Worth doing, but if I did it all over again would deff stack with test of some sort.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Test base will not give you much additional gains, it will just keep lethargy at bay and libido up.

 

[FitnessLuke]

That in itself would give more gains. More energy better workouts. Luckly for me my libido stayed sky high till week 6. Even then it was good. On top of that halodrol reduces shbg, so the test would be able to bind to androgen receptors. It seems like the two would work really well together and youd get that roid aggression in the gym. I have never done test, but I will certainly shoot up the next time I cycle. For me Halodrol by itself just wasnt worth suppressing my natural test levels.

I mean if youre guna shut yourself down you might as well get some real gains all around. You wouldnt even have to dose the test high since the two would be synergistic.

 

[sgubinshreds]

What would you recommend for a test base?

 

[g0hardorgohom]

What would you recommend for a test base?

There really is not many options in the market. 4-AD by AMS and Alpha Bulk by Forerunner Labs are both 4-DHEA products, 2-step precursors to testosterone.

You could also use epiandrosterone (Stano-drol and clones) as a "test" base. It is a precursor to DHT but from my experience it's better at boosting libido and keeping lethargy at bay than 4-DHEA.

Or you could go big and use trestolone. Olympus Labs TR3ST will do all that testosterone does and it'll also make you blow the f*ck up - you'll gain a lot of muscle and your strength will skyrocket. It's very potent stuff and you need to treat it with respect. There really is nothing like trestolone in the market.

 

[sgubinshreds]

So you think it would be good to just stick with Epi or Halo? I wouldn't want to waste a cycle on tren and find out I don't respond well to it..

I wasn't too impressed by epi, got some good strength gains but not much size wise.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

So you think it would be good to just stick with Epi or Halo? I wouldn't want to waste a cycle on tren and find out I don't respond well to it..

I wasn't too impressed by epi, got some good strength gains but not much size wise.

If you wasn't impressed with Epi, try something else. Maybe methylstenbolone if you don't want to try tren? It's very potent compound with relatively little sides. It doesn't make you put on water.

 

[sgubinshreds]

Did you notice a lot of lethargy or loss of libido while on Halo?

 

[sgubinshreds]

If you wasn't impressed with Epi, try something else. Maybe methylstenbolone if you don't want to try tren? It's very potent compound with relatively little sides. It doesn't make you put on water.

I've heard Msten makes you retain a lot of water? Do you know how tren would affect someone who doesn't respond well to it?

 

[Mperkins]

I've heard Msten makes you retain a lot of water? Do you know how tren would affect someone who doesn't respond well to it?

msten= no water. the kid who said 12lbs gained is not impressive dont listen 12lbs is great!

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I've heard Msten makes you retain a lot of water? Do you know how tren would affect someone who doesn't respond well to it?

Just like Mperkins said.

It'll fill your muscles with glycogen but it won't bloat you like Dbol does. It's extremely versatile product.

 

[FitnessLuke]

msten= no water. the kid who said 12lbs gained is not impressive dont listen 12lbs is great!

I mean in reality it was 8-9 lbs gained after pct. Its impressive, but I have been at this weight before and was all natural never touched an anabolic. That is why I wasnt impressed. Now on the plus I was a bit harder and more vascular then in the past at that same weight. Overall not what I was expecting for my first steroid cycle

 

[Mystere3]

What did you expect? Pop a bottle of pills and you're suddenly Kai Greene? 9 lb in a month is a nice result.

I mean in reality it was 8-9 lbs gained after pct. Its impressive, but I have been at this weight before and was all natural never touched an anabolic. That is why I wasnt impressed. Now on the plus I was a bit harder and more vascular then in the past at that same weight. Overall not what I was expecting for my first steroid cycle

 

[fueledpassion]

I mean in reality it was 8-9 lbs gained after pct. Its impressive, but I have been at this weight before and was all natural never touched an anabolic. That is why I wasnt impressed. Now on the plus I was a bit harder and more vascular then in the past at that same weight. Overall not what I was expecting for my first steroid cycle

My first cycle, which was Dienolone, I put on 14lbs and kept 12. I'd say Hdrol did just what it should have done. There is an important piece all of u are missing about hdrol.

I've used it with Test, and with TRT is works mightily. Better than any other combo or stack I can think of. There is definitely synergy with the two, which is much more than anyone can say about Msten and DZine. What you guys should know is that 6 years later and 40lbs of muscular gains, Hdrol put on another 10lbs for me and I'm only 5'5". I kept all 10 and today I'm 4-5lbs heavier than when I last touched it (last summer). I have a veteran lifting friend that took it again for the THIRD TIME last summer with me and he made 17lbs and kept around 14. He wasnt on TRT.

Sides vs gains, nothing compares IMO. More is not better. Aim for dry, keepable gains. I personally think Hdrol and Tren PH together will kill everything else you'd consider. Run NAC or Cycle Assist with it and ur gtg.

Lastly, what is MOST important is priming ur body for a bulk. Cut up a bit, get ur insulin sensitivity very high (i.e. cardio, low carb, carb cycling & IF diets work well). If u just want some guarantees in gains, go to the WalMart pharmacy and purchase some Humilin R OTC and run it with the Hdrol for guaranteed jackness.

I dont recommend that btw. But it DOES work, lol.

 

[FitnessLuke]

My first cycle, which was Dienolone, I put on 14lbs and kept 12. I'd say Hdrol did just what it should have done. There is an important piece all of u are missing about hdrol.

I've used it with Test, and with TRT is works mightily. Better than any other combo or stack I can think of. There is definitely synergy with the two, which is much more than anyone can say about Msten and DZine. What you guys should know is that 6 years later and 40lbs of muscular gains, Hdrol put on another 10lbs for me and I'm only 5'5". I kept all 10 and today I'm 4-5lbs heavier than when I last touched it (last summer). I have a veteran lifting friend that took it again for the THIRD TIME last summer with me and he made 17lbs and kept around 14. He wasnt on TRT.

Sides vs gains, nothing compares IMO. More is not better. Aim for dry, keepable gains. I personally think Hdrol and Tren PH together will kill everything else you'd consider. Run NAC or Cycle Assist with it and ur gtg.

Lastly, what is MOST important is priming ur body for a bulk. Cut up a bit, get ur insulin sensitivity very high (i.e. cardio, low carb, carb cycling & IF diets work well). If u just want some guarantees in gains, go to the WalMart pharmacy and purchase some Humilin R OTC and run it with the Hdrol for guaranteed jackness.

I dont recommend that btw. But it DOES work, lol.

Exactly what I was trying to say and screw stacking two orals. Injectable test is the way to go and your body will think you for using test over mstane, superdrol, etc

I have yet to stack test and hdrol, but I will forsure in the future and expect a fun ride.

 

[Mystere3]

I agree that most cycles would benefit from a good test base but feel that oral or transdermal test bases are good options too.

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations.

As far as insulin goes, it's def very anabolic but injecting it comes with significant risk if you don't know what you're doing. It will kill you far more quickly than even dnp if used incorrectly.

 

[FitnessLuke]

What did you expect? Pop a bottle of pills and you're suddenly Kai Greene? 9 lb in a month is a nice result.

Well I expected aggression, but shouldnt have due to hdrol being more anabolic. I also thought it would be results that I could see in the mirror by the week(that was dumb on my part due to it being mild and dry gains) Lastly I feel some of my gains were due to muscle memory and not he hdrol. I coulda got underdosed stuff, but I started 75, then did 100mg all the way till week 5-6. Week 5-6 I did 125mg. A pretty high dose..hdrol would make a great cutter though. I could see it cutting u up very well on a diet. I was bulkin and got more defined.

Either way I feel strongly about the fact pinning some test and hdrol would be great.

 

[fueledpassion]

I agree that most cycles would benefit from a good test base but feel that oral or transdermal test bases are good options too.

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations.

As far as insulin goes, it's def very anabolic but injecting it comes with significant risk if you don't know what you're doing. It will kill you far more quickly than even dnp if used incorrectly.

I wouldnt know about comparing it to DNP. But I do know a sensible person would aim for starting at 1iu max and working they're way up with glucose tabs on hand.

Either way, my point is that there ARE options out there for getting solid gains and guaranteed too. But are we willing to do it is another question entirely.

 

[Mystere3]

That's a nice cycle but if you're going to pin you might as well get a longer cycle. I'd run something stronger at cycle start like dbol and use hdrol as a 6 week finisher for a ~16 weeker or smth. Of course there's legal and financial differences there.

 

[Mystere3]

You could easily die with one incorrect dose of insulin, almost immediately. Someone with normal sensitivity who shoots up humalog could drop into a coma and die in minutes.

Dnp won't kill you with one dose, at least not right away, certainly.

 

[fueledpassion]

Well I expected aggression, but shouldnt have due to hdrol being more anabolic. I also thought it would be results that I could see in the mirror by the week(that was dumb on my part due to it being mild and dry gains) Lastly I feel some of my gains were due to muscle memory and not he hdrol. I coulda got underdosed stuff, but I started 75, then did 100mg all the way till week 5-6. Week 5-6 I did 125mg. A pretty high dose..hdrol would make a great cutter though. I could see it cutting u up very well on a diet. I was bulkin and got more defined.

Either way I feel strongly about the fact pinning some test and hdrol would be great.

Yes, 75mg for 6-8 weeks with TRT and a butt load of carbs seemed to work. I ran it 40 days but if I did it again (which I will), I'll run it for up to 8 weeks max.

All this being said, I think keeping a close check on cholesterol levels is important in PCT and thereafter as well.

 

[fueledpassion]

You could easily die with one incorrect dose of insulin, almost immediately. Someone with normal sensitivity who shoots up humalog could drop into a coma and die in minutes.

Dnp won't kill you with one dose, at least not right away, certainly.

Yeah, thats true. But the ultrafast acting ones (the deadly ones) arent OTC. Only the slower releasing ones that have predictable BG curves are OTC.

 

[Mystere3]

Yeah, thats true. But the ultrafast acting ones (the deadly ones) arent OTC. Only the slower releasing ones that have predictable BG curves are OTC.

Yeah 70/30 would be safer. I'd prolly err on the side of 20:1 carb correction, though.

 

[FitnessLuke]

That's a nice cycle but if you're going to pin you might as well get a longer cycle. I'd run something stronger at cycle start like dbol and use hdrol as a 6 week finisher for a ~16 weeker or smth. Of course there's legal and financial differences there.

You are right though. My expectations were maybe a little above and beyond, but I cant complain other then the money spent for the cycle and pct bc I never expirienced a week of feeling shutdown. Really after my last dose the nolva took care of things quickly. No gyno, no hair loss, bp got a little high...no acne...all of those things make hdrol a nice go to and in reality IS the reason I choose hdrol. I think I was a little pist bc as soon as I heard about sarms is when my hdrol cycle was over haha.

Adding test could make recovery a bit more complicated and ****ty. I cant say how bad it is to recover from test bc Ive only used that hdrol once. Your idea of dbol bridged into hdrol all while running test..sounds good as well. Although superdrol or ultradrol seems a bit better then dbol. Again you probably used dbol so your opinion is more valid then mine. Just from whatbI read about superdrol and dbol s.d sounds like a good kick starter and knowing what your getting is nice too.

On a side note stock up on hdrol bc isnt it about to be banned??

 

[Mystere3]

Dbol is def old and def causes water retention. It also isn't as strong mg for mg as sd or msten, but IMO it has a bit more favorable side effect profile for me, at least. Certainly it's terrible to run on it's own, but with test I think it's pretty much the best kick starter I've found for the pure purpose of building mass. That's bc being a wet compound you don't have the estrogen deprivation you get with sd or msten, so you feel great and with test you just blow up. Dbol test (+/- tren and eq) with anavar finisher is IMO the best bulk cycle but obviously that's just my opinion.

 

[Mperkins]

Yeah, thats true. But the ultrafast acting ones (the deadly ones) arent OTC. Only the slower releasing ones that have predictable BG curves are OTC.

im excited to run slin some day but scared soooo much... the off season coach uses it and is VERY well know so i hope he can teach me and help me learn how to use it one day. its id say from studies the best thing in bodybuilding other than HGH. test, slin and halo cycle (obviously slin not all 12 weeks) would turn you into the hulk

 

[Mystere3]

I think running insulin is easy. You just need to take 20g of carbs per unit of insulin and you'll be fine. The trick is to adjust your diet and timing to maximize insulin sensitivity. The last thing you want to do is give yourself type 2 diabetes unintentionally.

im excited to run slin some day but scared soooo much... the off season coach uses it and is VERY well know so i hope he can teach me and help me learn how to use it one day. its id say from studies the best thing in bodybuilding other than HGH. test, slin and halo cycle (obviously slin not all 12 weeks) would turn you into the hulk

 

[Mperkins]

I think running insulin is easy. You just need to take 20g of carbs per unit of insulin and you'll be fine. The trick is to adjust your diet and timing to maximize insulin sensitivity. The last thing you want to do is give yourself type 2 diabetes unintentionally.

damn 20?? all the research ive done said 10-12 per unit. ill talk with him this off season and we will figure out a plan. have you used it? love to hear your personal results

 

[Mystere3]

I haven't used slin or gh personally but know lots of ppl who have, having been around high level athletics for many years. The main reason I'm not using it is that I don't really intend to bulk too much from where I'm at now, but if I was trying to get up to 250-275 I def would.

20 is very conservative, you can try tapering it as you get used to it but as you don't know your insulin sensitivity your priority at first should be not dying. Once you use it more then you should be able to tweak it. It goes without saying that you should have a glucometer and be sticking yourself a lot until you have a good understanding of how your sugars react.

damn 20?? all the research ive done said 10-12 per unit. ill talk with him this off season and we will figure out a plan. have you used it? love to hear your personal results

 

[fueledpassion]

damn 20?? all the research ive done said 10-12 per unit. ill talk with him this off season and we will figure out a plan. have you used it? love to hear your personal results

Join Datbtrue's site. There is a plethora of info on how to do it and what type of insulin does what and the half life of each as well.

A few things I intend to do if I ever get on it for a 4 week bulker:

1) Get a slow-acting one
2) Start at a really low dose (1 unit)
3) Take it only in PWO until I can understand how I respond to it
4) Run copious amounts of H-drol with it