Juicing vs Natural

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    All gym rats / health nuts (especially if want to compete) come to the fork in the road of staying natural or start juicing. This is where I'm at.

    I would like starter stack advice, horror stories, pros, cons, what stacks to take + dosage. From all of you that can relate, use, or do not chose to use steroids.

    I would like kids someday and would like to keep my hair. I do want to add size and compete(WIN). I would really like to be able to have a more flexible diet while staying at 6-7% BF year round. I've been training for 10+ years but only counted micros / micros for 1 year. Leanest I've been is 4% max is 15%

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    Your pro/ list shows me you don't know much about steroids at all. No offense.
    2" up top???
    leaner year round?
    Birth defects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyNmuscles View Post
    All gym rats / health nuts (especially if want to compete) come to the fork in the road of staying natural or start juicing. This is where I'm at, and want opinions , stack advice, horror stories, pros, cons, what stacks to take + dosage. Here are my current stats: Age:29 5'11" 208 lbs 12-14% No pump measurements are Neck 17" Arms: 17.5" Wiest: 32" Calves: 18" Chest:42" Start Juicing .... Stay leaner longer & allow more flexible eating Repair & recovery Add upper body size quicker (2" everywhere up top) Stay leaner year round!!!! I am not naturally super lean Stay natural: No Need to go pro in bodybuilding I WANT to keep my already starting to thin hair I want children (without birth defects ) because dad wanted a body like a Greek god .
    How long have you been training and when was your avatar pic taken?
    •   
       

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    Training semi consistent for 10 years . Picture taken last year (feb). Want to add size to my chest, another inch to my arms.
    I know a lot of the pros have children while juicing no problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyNmuscles View Post
    Training semi consistent for 10 years . Picture taken last year (feb). Want to add size to my chest, another inch to my arms.
    I know a lot of the pros have children while juicing no problem.
    Changing ur routine and increasing the intensity will get u a bigger chest.

    The risks with steroids short term are:

    -Gyno
    -Acne
    -Aggression
    -Psychological addiction ("Bigorexia")
    -Permenant or temp shutdown

    Long term
    -Addiction
    -TRT for life
    -Trouble gettin lady preggers (not common)
    -If big enough, heart problems and risks

    That last one u need to realize that its the hugeness of ur body that poses the risk, not necessarily the steroid itself. If u come off them after years of use, you'll likely lose 5-15% of ur LBM as a result, which is good for longevity anyways.

    Btw, this list isnt comprehensive. Lots more could be said about them as well as positives aspects.

    Due to the nature of our society being prone to some sort of addiction, I recommend not dabbling with them. Odds are, ur one of the majority that will progressively misuse them over time.
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    Thank you for this post bro. Addicted to results forsure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Your pro/ list shows me you don't know much about steroids at all. No offense. 2" up top??? leaner year round? Birth defects?


    lol yeah that's why he's posting the thread and asking.

    I'm sure he's so thankful for your help.

    Jesus
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    But since you said no offense it's ok I guess right? Lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    lol yeah that's why he's posting the thread and asking.

    I'm sure he's so thankful for your help.

    Jesus
    I need to work on my politeness. But I took it as him informing us of this misinformation, not asking. Sorry for any offense.
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    Ill post the question(s) more clearly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I need to work on my politeness. But I took it as him informing us of this misinformation, not asking. Sorry for any offense.

    No worries man. I see some guys bash other guys for legitimate ignorance.

    He is 29 and obviously has some misconceptions about using gear. Just like most of us at one point.

    But he's not 18 or never worked out before etc etc.

    I took his post as someone that is an experienced lifter that is on the fence about using steroids to further himself in achieving his specific goals. I thought you were having an elitist mentality and bashing him.

    If that's not the case I apologize.
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    I don't have a single friend who lifts. The guys on here give me someone to learn from and talk to. And I think you were right. I did come off that way. I do try and help dispell a lot of medical misinformation on here since that's my area of expertise, but I need to work on not being condescending.
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    My apologies MnM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    My apologies MnM
    You honest with urself bro, thats something men should seek after more often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    You honest with urself bro, thats something men should seek after more often.

    Couldn't agree more.
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    Thx guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyNmuscles View Post
    All gym rats / health nuts (especially if want to compete) come to the fork in the road of staying natural or start juicing. This is where I'm at.

    I would like starter stack advice, horror stories, pros, cons, what stacks to take + dosage. From all of you that can relate, use, or do not chose to use steroids.

    I would like kids someday and would like to keep my hair. I do want to add size and compete(WIN). I would really like to be able to have a more flexible diet while staying at 6-7% BF year round. I've been training for 10+ years but only counted micros / micros for 1 year. Leanest I've been is 4% max is 15%
    Countless 1st cycle threads out there but I'd just do something really basic like
    1-12/14/16 test e/c 500
    1-4/5/6 dbol 50 or test prop 350/week
    adex .25mgs when you start needing it EOD
    pct clomid 50/25/25/25

    My first was 1-12 test e 500 6-14 var 50mg

    after that, I basically used whatever I wanted.

    I don't have many actual horror stories. Got super super bad anxiety the first time I used EQ, apetite got destroyed once by tren, knots from inj low grade stuff, emotional clomid sides because I listened to idiots suggesting 300-100mgs the first time I cycled.
    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Changing ur routine and increasing the intensity will get u a bigger chest.

    The risks with steroids short term are:

    -Gyno
    -Acne
    -Aggression
    -Psychological addiction ("Bigorexia")-Permenant or temp shutdown

    Long term
    -Addiction
    -TRT for life
    -Trouble gettin lady preggers (not common)
    -If big enough, heart problems and risks

    That last one u need to realize that its the hugeness of ur body that poses the risk, not necessarily the steroid itself. If u come off them after years of use, you'll likely lose 5-15% of ur LBM as a result, which is good for longevity anyways.

    Btw, this list isnt comprehensive. Lots more could be said about them as well as positives aspects.

    Due to the nature of our society being prone to some sort of addiction, I recommend not dabbling with them. Odds are, ur one of the majority that will progressively misuse them over time.
    Nailed the less spoken side effects in bold!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions
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    I'm in MnM's same boat. I'm sub'ed in for info since I could benefit from many of these responses. I've been researching for a while and have Test E, DMZ 2.0, and EQ already on hand. I'm just not 100% on which direction I want to take my first Cycle. From my research, most guys suggest a Test E only cycle, while others suggested Test E with an oral kicker( for the first 4 weeks). And the last common suggestion was a Test E/EQ stack. I've narrowed all my info to these 3 options, maybe that will give you some sort of starting point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNA24 View Post
    I'm in MnM's same boat. I'm sub'ed in for info since I could benefit from many of these responses. I've been researching for a while and have Test E, DMZ 2.0, and EQ already on hand. I'm just not 100% on which direction I want to take my first Cycle. From my research, most guys suggest a Test E only cycle, while others suggested Test E with an oral kicker( for the first 4 weeks). And the last common suggestion was a Test E/EQ stack. I've narrowed all my info to these 3 options, maybe that will give you some sort of starting point.

    I would suggest waiting on the EQ and just doing a test only cycle. See how you respond to just test alone then later on add other compounds in. That way if you so have sides you know where they are coming from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    I would suggest waiting on the EQ and just doing a test only cycle. See how you respond to just test alone then later on add other compounds in. That way if you so have sides you know where they are coming from.
    that seems to be the most common recommendation from my closest friends. Would I be able to throw the EQ in after 4 weeks, or should I just keep it simple with Test for the entirety of the cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNA24 View Post
    that seems to be the most common recommendation from my closest friends. Would I be able to throw the EQ in after 4 weeks, or should I just keep it simple with Test for the entirety of the cycle?
    Not unless you have enough test for an additional 14-16 weeks. The half-life of EQ is very long and takes nearly two months before the merits start to show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    I would suggest waiting on the EQ and just doing a test only cycle. See how you respond to just test alone then later on add other compounds in. That way if you so have sides you know where they are coming from.
    And if u do EQ, taper it up gradually. That'll help with anxiety issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    And if u do EQ, taper it up gradually. That'll help with anxiety issues.


    EQ gave me high bp as well. I personally prefer deca. That's just personal though.
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    Am I correct in thinking that liver support is not necessary with Test E? If I understand correctly, Test E is not hepatoxic and dangerous for your liver, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNA24 View Post
    Am I correct in thinking that liver support is not necessary with Test E? If I understand correctly, Test E is not hepatoxic and dangerous for your liver, right?
    Not at all.
    That why you'll never see anyone on oral TRT. You could inject testosterone every week for 60 years and be fine. Yet, most oral steroids are cycled for only 1 month usually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Not at all. That why you'll never see anyone on oral TRT. You could inject testosterone every week for 60 years and be fine. Yet, most oral steroids are cycled for only 1 month usually.
    Would cycle support be needed with the addition of EQ into a Test E cycle? Or is it just needed with all orals?
  

  
 

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