Double Epistane Log - Should be interesting
- 09-19-2013, 09:53 PM
Double Epistane Log - Should be interesting
I have been planning on running this 6 week Epi cycle for a few months now, and have already pre-loaded cycle assist for the past 2 weeks. I am ready to start my Epi Cycle on Monday.
However another user, S0briquet, saw my advice thread and pm'd me saying he has been thinking of running an Epi cycle too and would like to mimic my exact cycle. So we decided it could be cool to run a Dual-Epistane log, to see how two people respond to the same identical cycle. We will both be going for as much lean mass and strength increases as possible, however the only difference will be our training regimen's. Maybe we can see what kind of a training regimen Epistane responds the best with. I will be running a higher-volume 5-6 day a week split, lifting sometimes even twice a day, while S0briquet will be running a less high-volume 4 day split.
Here is our cycle. S0briquet is about 1 week behind me I believe, so we will overlap a little.
1-2 weeks pre-load Cycle assist
Cycle Weeks 1-6:
Aegis shield of the gods throughout
Cycle assist throughout
Animal Flex for joint support throughout
Post Cycle weeks 1-5:
DAA: 3g ED
Cycle Assist throughout
I will also be running Nolva at 20/20/20/20/20 just to be sure, although S0briquet won't be running that.
Here are my only two questions remaining about this cycle. I've read so many threads the past few weeks that my eyeballs hurt. Should I run a Cortisol Blocker like Lean X-treme? And I've also read a ton of different opinions on running a DHEA on cycle like Transaderm. Alot of guys say that it helps you make alot more gains and most importantly avoid lethargy and crazy shutdown. I'm afraid of lethargy more than anything. What do you more experienced guys think? Are Lean Xtreme and Transaderm worth it to get the most out of a cycle?
Pictures and log soon to come as well.
- 09-20-2013, 10:27 AM
Pre-Cycle pics, stats & diet info
I weighed myself this morning upon waking up with nothing but shorts on, and its the same it has been for months - 193 lbs
I also tested all of my max's last week, so I know exactly where I'm at. I'm hoping to gain 6-10 lbs of lean mass on this cycle, as well as drop a few % body fat.
Height: 6 1'
Weight: 193 lb
Bench Press: 290#
Back Squat: 330#
Overhead Press: 160#
I'm hoping to increase my clean&jerk and snatch as well, but those lifts are more based on neurological improvements than strength.
I've been on a clean bulk of 4-5k calories a day for 5 months now, with hardly 1 lb of muscle gain. Just at a huge plateau I can't seem to break through, which is why I decided to run this cycle. At my height there's no reason I shouldn't be 205+.
I will be eating 4000-4500 clean calories a day. My diet consists of the same foods everyday.
Blended shake- Kale & Spinach, carrots, banana, blueberries, strawberries, almonds.
ON Pro Complex Gainer shake with whole milk and 2 raw eggs
Brown rice, chicken and 2 tbsp coconut oil
Banana with 4 tbsp of peanut butter/almond butter
2 beef patties with cheese wrapped in lettuce
12 fish oil caps a day
I will be running the Russian Squat Program for the next 6 weeks, so I'll be squatting 3 days a week. Also will continue to run 5/3/1 for Deadlift and overhead press. I'm on a separate program for Bench. Will also be doing crossfit style metcon's for cardio 3 days a week, using moderate to heavy weights.
Assistance Bench lifts
I know it may seem like too much volume, but I am able to get 9-10 hours of sleep a night, as well as 4-5k calories of food every day, so I recover very well. As they say, "there's no over-training, just under-recovering". I've been making huge strength gains, just haven't gained any weight. Muscle soreness leaves in 1-2 days tops. With the Epistane, I'm assuming that will only improve. If lethargy hits me hard for some reason, I will change up the split and add a 2nd rest day.
- 09-20-2013, 10:56 AM
Cool keep us updated. What are your dosages gonna be. I just finished my 5th week @ 40mg and I think for 6th week I might ramp it up to 50mg not sure. But I started cycle at 198 lbs. now I'm sitting at a solid 210. Strength went up like crazy I was db shoulder pressing only 65s (10 reps) at the beginning now I'm doing 80s (10 reps) like nobody's business.
09-20-2013, 11:11 AM
I think I listed the dosage at 30/30/30/45/45/45. I have Epi-10 and Epi-150, so I may end up changing it to something like 30/30/40/40/50/50
BTW, what are your opinions about running a Cortisol Control like Lean Xtreme in PCT, and running a DHEA to help keep test levels up and lethargy down. Something like Transaderm? I've read some guys saying that running a DHEA with a PH cycle is a must.
09-20-2013, 01:14 PM
See that's where I get confused too some people tell me to take an A.I like Erase on 2nd or 3rd week and others insist that I don't. I think just stick with serm. I'll be doing Nolva 20/20/10/10 and if I experience any estrogen rebound sides I'll start taking my erase. I'll also be taking some preworkout, creatine, whey, bcaa, and fish oil during pct. I recently read that fish oil can cause prostate cancer so once I'm out of that I'm sticking with flax seed oil.
09-20-2013, 05:33 PM
As Aaron has said, I will be joining him in this exact cycle, although due to a delay in shipping, it looks like I will be a full two weeks behind him instead of just one. I won't reiterate the specifics of the cycle as they can be seen above. As for my personal pre-cycle info;
Weighing myself this morning I clocked in at 182 lbs (definitely need to test at a second scale though because I was told it may be off - great.)
I also tested all of my max's last week, so I know exactly where I'm at. My main concern will be breaking through the strength gain plateaus that I have been stuck at for quite a few weeks now - they're the same plateaus that I have encountered twice before throughout my training. I have had to take a few breaks over the years, and this is the same strength level I always seem to return to;
Height: 6 4'
Bench Press: 265#
Back Squat: 315#
Overhead Press: 135#
The training split I'll be doing is 4 days, and each week has a different rep and set count. It looks like this; Week 1, all exercises 3x15, Week 2, all 4x10, Week 3 all 5x5. Major muscle group split is typically obvious. Shoulders, Back, Chest, Legs each has its own day with several supplementary exercises and smaller muscle groups added to each one. So, in a 6-week epi cycle, I will go through each set style twice; I'm looking forward to comparing the first three weeks and the last three, and hoping for some good strength improvement. Cardio is 1.5 hours of soccer once a week.
I finished my pre-cycle two days ago, and took the first round of epi yesterday, so obviously nothing of note to report yet. I'll try to keep my posts a bit smaller so that they don't interfere with Aarons to much; I'll be giving my experience with strength gains and etc. throughout, and I'm looking forward to it based on what Aaron has already seen after two weeks.
09-20-2013, 07:07 PM
09-20-2013, 07:41 PM
09-21-2013, 10:40 AM
This is one article that sums up how I feel about it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mar...b_3659735.html There's just no way I'm going to stop taking the most potent health drug known to man that has 1000 different ways of making me healthier and lower risk for many diseases, because 1 study claims that it "can cause higher risk for cancer". The proof is in the pudding, people have been taking fish oil for 20-30 years and we haven't ever seen the fish oil loving community begin to develop prostate cancer. Millions of people take fish oil every day, and if fish oil increases your risk by 70%, shouldn't we see lots more people getting diagnosed? What about the Japanese and other Asian cultures that almost exclusively eat fatty fish for centuries? Their overall health is far superior to ours, and that's really all the proof I need. Those are my questions and concerns with a study that claims that. I'm not saying there's no way its true, but I would need to see a whole lot more evidence than what they're giving.
09-21-2013, 10:52 AM
Fish oil , prostate cancer. Bullsh! T.
I read that too. Most studys are bs .
How many cycles have u ran previously.
Ur stats are close to mine.
Also ur strong as fuk those numbers are awesome.
Ur monday is a real fukin kill. Why so many squat variants.
And in like flin.. keep up with the updates
GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
09-21-2013, 11:05 AM
I'd like to compete at Crossfit soon, and in order to be good you have to be extremely well rounded with your squatting (and Oly lifts), and you have to do all of them a lot: Back squat, front squat, overhead squat, single leg squats, etc. So I thrash my legs on monday and give them about 3 days to recover and finish my last two squat sessions Thursday and Saturday. My legs really don't get sore because I squat so much and roll out twice a day. So my body is accustomed to that kind of volume now.
And this will be my first cycle ever. Figured Epi was a good route to go for a first cycle, so we'll see. How many cycles have you ran, and what has been your experience with Epi?
09-21-2013, 05:42 PM
09-21-2013, 06:19 PM
I think you're right especially about the contaminants/mercury and things like that which come in cheaper brands. Although there's been numerous studies of people with chronic health conditions that have been completely turned around with very high doses of fish oil (about 15 grams a day). You can look these cases up on google, but I've read two in particular that are amazing. You might remember the coal mining crew in 2006 or 7 that collapsed and trapped the crew of 13 in the cave. 12 of them died due to lack of oxygen, 1 of them survived. The grey matter in his brain was mostly destroyed and he was supposed to be a vegetable. Dr. Barry Sears put him on 15g of fish oil of day and within a matter of months his grey matter had almost fully returned and he made a full recovery. The other case was with the world's fattest man who was from Mexico I believe, weighed 1200 lbs. they put him on every diet known to man and couldn't get him to lose weight. Dr. Barry Sears again put him on 15g of fish oil which de-inflamed him and allowed his body to respond to the diet and he lost over 600 lbs.
All that to say, there are many studies like that which have proven the amazing effects fish oil can have in high doses, up to a certain point obviously. Its an incredibly powerful supplement. Of course though, if you're taking a cheap brand with contaminants you could def experience negative effects.
That's why I pay good money for my fish oil lol. Like you, I stick to about 6-10 grams a day and it does wonders for me. It has actually completely gotten rid of my IBS for the past two years I've been taking it
09-22-2013, 07:03 PM
Took my first 30 mg dose today. Felt a little adrenaline rush. Lets get this party started!!
09-23-2013, 12:53 AM
Cycle looks solid man I'm in to follow along. Do you plan to run Nolva during cycle or in pct with the clomid?? I couldn't tell from your format...
09-23-2013, 08:31 AM
09-23-2013, 11:45 AM
Why not nolva by itself? I'm ending 6 week cycle this week last 5 days and 50mg a day and I'll be doing nolva only pct 20/20/10/10 and daa @ 3 grams. And you'll know when epistane kicks in the pumps are insane and veins will be bulging this happened about a week and a half into the cycle. One more thing around the 4th week I got back pumps bad and taurine didn't really help me but pumps only kill on leg day and back/shoulders all other days I was fine.
09-23-2013, 11:52 AM
09-23-2013, 12:13 PM
09-23-2013, 12:25 PM
09-23-2013, 02:05 PM
09-23-2013, 02:33 PM
Workout Day 1 - Squat
Back Squat: 6x2 - 265#
5 sec Pause Squats: 3x5 - 205#
Bulgarian Split Squats: 3x5 - 50 lb dumbbells
Front Squat: 5x5 - 170#
EMOM (every minute on the minute) for 12 minutes: 1 Hang snatch, 1 power snatch, 1 Overhead Squat - 115#
Today was my first workout on cycle, 2nd day on Epi. Not feeling much of anything yet of course, but I felt like I should crank up the volume today just to see how well I recover. Won't squat again until Thursday, so I freaking squatted myself into a hole this morning. Almost had to crawl out of my garage and back into the house lol. I felt like I was handling the volume really well until the last few sets of the 5x5 and the exhaustion hit me hard. Took a nap before work and could hardly stand up out of bed. I just finished training my first client today and have a 3 hour gap between, so I did my snatch work.
It was brutal.
My legs were extremely weak and I just had no power from the floor. Felt like snatching with 145#. But its more about technique work with snatching so I got it done.
I hope my next clients don't mind me coaching them from a bench lol. Won't be able to stand much for the rest of the day. I'll make sure and get 4.5k calories to help with recovery. Only change I've seen so far is the added mental toughness to grind through a high volume day like this, just from knowing that I'm on cycle. Loving it so far!
09-23-2013, 11:11 PM
09-23-2013, 11:17 PM
09-24-2013, 11:59 AM
09-24-2013, 10:38 PM
Workout Day 2 - Chest/Triceps
12 Minute AMRAP (as many rounds as possible)
14 Kettlebell swings - 53#
7 burpee box jump overs - 20 inch box
7 rounds +14 KB swings+ 1 burpee box jump
Bench Press Lower 1/2 reps: 185x10, 205x10, 215x10
Bench Press Upper 1/2 reps: 185x10, 205x10, 215x10
Incline Bench Press: 135x10, 155x8, 155x8
Tricep Press-Down: 12x70, 10x80, 8x90, 6x100, 6x100
Ring Dips: 3 max sets
Close Grip Pushups: 3 max sets
Wide Grip Pushups: 3 max sets
Felt good today, held up to the volume really well. I did get extremely tired in the middle of the day and took a 2 hour nap. Is that what lethargy feels like, or was I just tired? lol. Not sure if lethargy is actually feeling sleepy or just not having the drive/desire to lift?
Anyway, got a HUGE abnormal pump in my chest and triceps, not sure if it was just cuz I hit it well today, or if the Epi contributed to it, but it felt good. No sides or anything at all to comment on thus far. We'll see what the scale says tomorrow morning.
09-25-2013, 11:55 AM
That would be lethargy but I don't think it would be hitting you this fast. I didn't have lethargy thankfully. This 6th week for me is shutting me down b-a-d I got no sex drive which is ok since I'm single lol but trying to go out with this girl is driving me nuts so I'd say psychological effects are amplified on the cycle. Can't wait to start pct.
09-25-2013, 11:57 AM
Wow dude that's horrible...sorry to hear that. Hopefully your libido will come screaming back as soon as you start PCT.
Remind me again, what cycle are you on? And how have your gains been coming on cycle?
09-25-2013, 12:25 PM
Epistane 30/30/30/40/40/50. It's my first cycle ever too lol go big or go home imo 4 weeks is too short run 5 weeks at least. I started at 198 and now I'm a solid 215 I'm trying to pack on a few more pounds as well. I'm not tracking my macros too much but high protein, high carb, medium fat diet.
09-25-2013, 12:34 PM
That's actually exactly what I'm looking to do now as well. Except I'm gonna go 30/30/30/40/45/45.
To be honest I'm looking forward to the libido crash. I need a break from having a raging sex drive 24/7. Lol
09-25-2013, 12:39 PM
09-25-2013, 01:24 PM
09-25-2013, 02:53 PM
It was probably by the 2nd week that all my lifts were going up and each week after that up and up lol.
09-25-2013, 03:14 PM
09-25-2013, 04:01 PM
09-25-2013, 05:29 PM
Workout Day 3- Deadlift/Back
Deadlift: 275x5, 315x5, 360x7, 315x8, 275x10
Dumbbell Row: 4x8 - 65#
Lat Pull Down: 5x8 - 175# plus a drop set
Reverse Flies 4x8 at 110#
Workout was great, got a good pump, but man I feel tired today. Was starting to feel sleepy between deadlift sets. Fought through it, but now I'm sitting back in my office and trying to stay awake. It may just be because I didn't get good sleep last night...but I hope this doesn't continue throughout the whole cycle.
No weight gain or noticeable strength gains as of yet. Only my 4th day on though.
09-25-2013, 05:58 PM
Just some heads up.
I ran Epi for 5 weeks 20/30/30/20/20 and was using cycle assist. Had to cut back down to 20 mg a day cuz of the constant headache I was having all day everyday from the 2nd week on because I didn't kno about the high blood pressure side effect...so some advice if I were u I would also use Hawthorn Berry to avoid tht cuz it sucked having a headache during workouts.
Other thn that I didn't experience shut down or major lathargy, just couldn't deadlift during the whole cycle cuz of the back pumps were unbearable
09-25-2013, 06:00 PM
I loved the gains I got from it tho...started noticing I waz ALOT Fuller the 2nd week and crazy veins everywhere.
I went from 192 lbs to 214 in 5 weeks. then after PCT I stayed at 206 lbs
09-25-2013, 06:01 PM
Also have Taurine on hand in case I get back pumps. Not dead lifting is not an option for me as I'm looking to up my strength gains big time on this cycle.
09-25-2013, 06:02 PM
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