Double Epistane Log - Should be interesting

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  1. Fantastic results, man.
    Great all around gains. Hope PCT is smooth so you can maintain it all and bounce back quick.

    I've been on the fence about my Epi cycle (was having some 2nd thoughts) but you're making a good case.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by doggy_dog View Post
    Fantastic results, man. Great all around gains. Hope PCT is smooth so you can maintain it all and bounce back quick. I've been on the fence about my Epi cycle (was having some 2nd thoughts) but you're making a good case.
    Glad to hear it man, I would highly recommend you give it a go. It went surprisingly smooth and I love that you don't have to worry about gyno on cycle. I realize I'm not out of the woods yet because I just started my PCT, but I'll be posting updates every few days so check back when it's all said and done to get the final verdict.
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  3. Forgot to ask, did you notice any hair loss on cycle?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by doggy_dog View Post
    Forgot to ask, did you notice any hair loss on cycle?
    None whatsoever

  5. Some pretty notable results there bro. Good work!

  6. Yea I'm 5th day of pct... It's going great cept just has slight testicle pain... I guess that means they coming back... You might get same prob so don't stress.. I dunno if Clomid or hcg takes care of that... I think also I was gonna start 're running activate extreme at 3 pills so I can extend it past the serm finish

  7. Great gains btw

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaz123 View Post
    Yea I'm 5th day of pct... It's going great cept just has slight testicle pain... I guess that means they coming back... You might get same prob so don't stress.. I dunno if Clomid or hcg takes care of that... I think also I was gonna start 're running activate extreme at 3 pills so I can extend it past the serm finish
    That's good to know. I'm down for whatever as long as I get my balls back lol. Is activate extreme a cort controller? I'm on lean extreme. Are we only supposed to take those for 4 weeks?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post
    That's good to know. I'm down for whatever as long as I get my balls back lol. Is activate extreme a cort controller? I'm on lean extreme. Are we only supposed to take those for 4 weeks?
    Nuh activate xtreme isn't a cortisol blocker only erase is... But I've researched 1+ grams of vitamin c reduces cortisol by 30%... So I'm on that.... You're on the perfect pct but Clomid/nolvadex are for serious drugs... Epistane is really mild... Stick with your lean xtreme and erase... I don't know the ai between both I think erase and xtreme both have suicidal ai properties... Can someone correct me?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaz123 View Post

    Nuh activate xtreme isn't a cortisol blocker only erase is... But I've researched 1+ grams of vitamin c reduces cortisol by 30%... So I'm on that.... You're on the perfect pct but Clomid/nolvadex are for serious drugs... Epistane is really mild... Stick with your lean xtreme and erase... I don't know the ai between both I think erase and xtreme both have suicidal ai properties... Can someone correct me?
    Clomid and nolvadex are for anything that suppresses your hpta which ill add epistane does. If your going to use anything suppressive a serm is a must to get things happening as fast as possible. You will recover without one BUT it will take a lot longer and you'll probably lose what you gained. /rant
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Clomid and nolvadex are for anything that suppresses your hpta which ill add. epistane does. If your going to use anything suppressive a serm is a must to get things happening as fast as possible. You will recover without one BUT it will take a lot longer and you'll probably lose what you gained. /rant
    Yea that's true, but do they actively brings your nuts back or do we have to wait naturally for them...? What does hcg do compared to nolvadex/Clomid?

  12. Man, this PCT is not going well so far. I haven't lost much really, still weighing 203 in the mornings, but it has been impossible to go to sleep the last three nights. I also feel extremely sick this morning like throwing up, and don't feel like working out or eating, which is not good.

    Any suggestions from you experienced guys about how to deal with the sleep issues and feeling sick?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post
    Man, this PCT is not going well so far. I haven't lost much really, still weighing 203 in the mornings, but it has been impossible to go to sleep the last three nights. I also feel extremely sick this morning like throwing up, and don't feel like working out or eating, which is not good. Any suggestions from you experienced guys about how to deal with the sleep issues and feeling sick?
    Been lurking since you started. Nice log. As far as bad sleep goes for me I've used ZMA and inhibit-p before bed and i seem to pass out. My cousin uses the same combo and loves it to.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaz123 View Post

    Yea that's true, but do they actively brings your nuts back or do we have to wait naturally for them...? What does hcg do compared to nolvadex/Clomid?
    They always come ba k naturally, serms just speed up the process. It still takes a lot longer for your body to reach homeostasis. Hcg mimics leutinizing hormone, it shouldn't be used in pct as its suppressive to your natural LH secretion, it can be however used on cycle at small doses e3d to keep your nuts producing endogenous testosterone.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by BlumpkinKing View Post
    Been lurking since you started. Nice log. As far as bad sleep goes for me I've used ZMA and inhibit-p before bed and i seem to pass out. My cousin uses the same combo and loves it to.
    Nice man, thanks for the reference. I'll be buying some of that immediately. Would most major supplement sites carry those?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post

    Nice man, thanks for the reference. I'll be buying some of that immediately. Would most major supplement sites carry those?
    Yeah nutraplanet should sell those, another thing is melatonin which you can get from a health food shop.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Yeah nutraplanet should sell those, another thing is melatonin which you can get from a health food shop.
    I've been taking that with NyQuil and it doesn't seem to do much. What I'm really worried about right now is the stomach sickness I've been feeling :-/

  18. Does anyone know if it could be the DAA causing the stomach upsetness? I think I read somewhere that it does. I am thinking about forgoing it for the rest of my PCT, but mostly because I just read the article on the home page about it having no effect whatsoever. Not sure if that doesn't apply to guys who are coming off a cycle and have very low levels to start with. But I think I'm going to give it up just because of the stomach issues I've been having. Does anyone have any input on this? I'm not sure if its the Clomid, Nolva, or DAA that's giving me problems, but I can't afford to give up the first two

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post
    Does anyone know if it could be the DAA causing the stomach upsetness? I think I read somewhere that it does. I am thinking about forgoing it for the rest of my PCT, but mostly because I just read the article on the home page about it having no effect whatsoever. Not sure if that doesn't apply to guys who are coming off a cycle and have very low levels to start with. But I think I'm going to give it up just because of the stomach issues I've been having. Does anyone have any input on this? I'm not sure if its the Clomid, Nolva, or DAA that's giving me problems, but I can't afford to give up the first two
    It's definitely not nolvadex... It could be your daa I've used one before and had same prob but really mildly... Try to push through if it starts ruining your training days then stop it just rum Clomid/nolvadex together then wait til you can use erase... You gotta realise you are popping pills like crazy to get your hpta so your body might not be used to it

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    They always come ba k naturally, serms just speed up the process. It still takes a lot longer for your body to reach homeostasis. Hcg mimics leutinizing hormone, it shouldn't be used in pct as its suppressive to your natural LH secretion, it can be however used on cycle at small doses e3d to keep your nuts producing endogenous testosterone.
    Cheers Luke... I get it now, so pretty much keep running nolvadex and xtreme for the rest of pct... Too many hormones to deal with lol

  21. Good call. I'm gonna stop DAA for a few days and continue with just Clomid/Nolva and Lean Xtreme, and I'll let you guys know how I feel. It has absolutely ruined my ability to work out AND eat, which is really concerning to me because I really do not want to lose these gains. If I can narrow down what is making me sick in this log, hopefully it can be helpful to someone else

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post
    Good call. I'm gonna stop DAA for a few days and continue with just Clomid/Nolva and Lean Xtreme, and I'll let you guys know how I feel. It has absolutely ruined my ability to work out AND eat, which is really concerning to me because I really do not want to lose these gains. If I can narrow down what is making me sick in this log, hopefully it can be helpful to someone else
    Have you tried playing around with dose timing? I've heard of a few people having issues like stomach discomfort, try having your supps with food before bed. I haven't read that thing in the home page yet but I've seen numerous studies about the effectiveness of DAA. I'm more inclined to believe a peer reviewed study over and article someone wrote.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Have you tried playing around with dose timing? I've heard of a few people having issues like stomach discomfort, try having your supps with food before bed. I haven't read that thing in the home page yet but I've seen numerous studies about the effectiveness of DAA. I'm more inclined to believe a peer reviewed study over and article someone wrote.
    Well they claim to have definitive proof through case studies they list (which really discredits them imo), but either way I am just going to forego it for the rest of my PCT. I've had te worst abdominal cramps and satanic diarrhea that there's no way I'm ever taking that stuff again. I had been taking two pills in the morning with food and two before bed with food, so that wasn't the issue. Everyone responds differently I guess. But I can't afford to go another day without eating or working out. I don't wanna lose everything I've worked so hard for.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post
    Well they claim to have definitive proof through case studies they list (which really discredits them imo), but either way I am just going to forego it for the rest of my PCT. I've had te worst abdominal cramps and satanic diarrhea that there's no way I'm ever taking that stuff again. I had been taking two pills in the morning with food and two before bed with food, so that wasn't the issue. Everyone responds differently I guess. But I can't afford to go another day without eating or working out. I don't wanna lose everything I've worked so hard for.
    I might have to give it a read while I'm on night shift tonight. Your very much on the money man I think it's just something that doesn't agree with you. Drop it and see how you go!

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    I might have to give it a read while I'm on night shift tonight. Your very much on the money man I think it's just something that doesn't agree with you. Drop it and see how you go!
    Thanks bro. I don't want to sound redundant, but thank you for sticking around my log and all the advice you've given. It has gone a long way towards helping this cycle be as successful as it was.

    That being said, my fear has come upon me...I weighed this morning and I am 199 right now :-( That's like a 5-6 lb drop from where I started my PCT. That's what two days of barely being able to eat and not work out will do to you in PCT I guess. I'm hoping to get over this stomach thing today and I'm going to kick my training into overdrive for the next 3 weeks to get back as much of those gains as I can.

  26. That's a good chunk of weight you dropped.

    But I would think that's primarily water weight. (especially taking into consideration your recent stomach issues)
    Your weight may fluctuate a bit over the next few weeks.
    Once you feel better, I'd give it another couple of days and see what's happening with your weight at that point.

    You've only been off Epi for a few days so I wouldn't get too worried just yet.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post

    Thanks bro. I don't want to sound redundant, but thank you for sticking around my log and all the advice you've given. It has gone a long way towards helping this cycle be as successful as it was.

    That being said, my fear has come upon me...I weighed this morning and I am 199 right now :-( That's like a 5-6 lb drop from where I started my PCT. That's what two days of barely being able to eat and not work out will do to you in PCT I guess. I'm hoping to get over this stomach thing today and I'm going to kick my training into overdrive for the next 3 weeks to get back as much of those gains as I can.
    It's all good bro, here to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by doggy_dog View Post
    That's a good chunk of weight you dropped.

    But I would think that's primarily water weight. (especially taking into consideration your recent stomach issues)
    Your weight may fluctuate a bit over the next few weeks.
    Once you feel better, I'd give it another couple of days and see what's happening with your weight at that point.

    You've only been off Epi for a few days so I wouldn't get too worried just yet.
    ^^ this is exactly what I was thinking, you always lose a bit coming off cycle as your muscles aren't super saturated with glycogen anymore, couple that with being a bit sick which also makes you drop water weight from lack of eating. I wouldn't stress dude!

  28. Yea Dw bout it Aaron it's all a mental thing.... Even though you had dry gains you still added water in your muscles... One thing I noticed since I've lost 2 pounds so far is that when your on epistane you tend to look really hard as you gain... But as soon as you get into pct that rock hardness goes out the window... So started assuming I lost muscle... Not the case.... Losing muscle is very slow even if you're starved of protein... Another bonus you would like to hear is the theory of muscle memory... Whatever muscle you've lost that is not out of your genetic potential you will regain as fast as someone gains fat... Judging by your pics you are not near your potential... So those 6 pounds you lost even if it is muscle will comeback very fast once your hormones get back to normal.... So don't stress champ.. Check it out

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaz123 View Post
    Yea Dw bout it Aaron it's all a mental thing.... Even though you had dry gains you still added water in your muscles... One thing I noticed since I've lost 2 pounds so far is that when your on epistane you tend to look really hard as you gain... But as soon as you get into pct that rock hardness goes out the window... So started assuming I lost muscle... Not the case.... Losing muscle is very slow even if you're starved of protein... Another bonus you would like to hear is the theory of muscle memory... Whatever muscle you've lost that is not out of your genetic potential you will regain as fast as someone gains fat... Judging by your pics you are not near your potential... So those 6 pounds you lost even if it is muscle will comeback very fast once your hormones get back to normal.... So don't stress champ.. Check it out
    Dude, that's what I needed to hear. I've been stressing out like crazy the past 4 days not being able to eat much or work out. But what you said makes a lot of sense, and I'm not gonna worry about what the scale says. I have noticed the thickness and hardness of my muscles has diminished a bit. But I'm sure I'll get a good portion of those lbs back once I can start lifting hard and heavy and eating again. I've pretty much narrowed down that it was the DAA which F'd me up so bad. I have a mild IBS-like condition that I think the acid set off pretty bad, so that doesn't mean it would have this effect on everyone. But I have heard a few guys say that DAA upsets their stomach and keeps them in the bathroom all day, so its not uncommon. I'll probably recommend some other kind of natural test booster to people from now on. Feeling a little better today. Gonna try and eat 4,000 calories, do some back squats and hit arms hard.

  30. Worked out pretty hard today which felt good, and I'm able to eat 3k calories yesterday which still isn't my goal but much better than 1500. Still can't sleep to save my life, and I need to order some of that ZMA stuff.

    I have seen a pretty noticable drop off in strength the past two days. Yesterday I did an 8x3 of back squat with 300#, and it felt like 350#. It destroyed me and I'm crazy sore today, whereas two weeks ago I was throwing 330# around with ease and not getting sore. So that sucks. Today my bench felt quite a bit weaker as well. But I'm not sure how much of that is because I've been sick and low on food/sleep for 5 days now. The good thing is I weighed 200lb this morning, so hopefully I'm gaining some of that weight back. Doing everything I can right now to keep this weight on. Every time I eat I keep getting acid reflux and tasting my food again because of the poor digestion from the stomach issue that DAA caused. But its getting better. Joints are also hurting pretty bad. This PCT sucks dick right now lol
  

  
 

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