1ifeblood Breaks On Through to the Other Side!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    Unless the day ends in "Y".
    but wait - that would be.........
    owe hay nao eye sea watt ewe didd they're
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    but wait - that would be.........
    owe hay nao eye sea watt ewe didd they're
    First I was like whaaaa? Then I was like ohhhhh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post

    It's absolutely effective. And remember, I'm on TRT. My personal choice would be to go with a SERM rather than an AI. Once your estrogen levels get all screwy, it's much harder to fix by finding the appropriate dosage of whatever you're using as a knee-jerk reaction to combat your symptoms. If gyno is an issue, or you foresee it becoming one, a SERM seems more appropriate. I'd rather keep E at bay than crush it and feel like a bag of ass. That's just my .02 though.
    Seems like it could be a good way to at least stop the gyno from progressing while finishing the cycle like Luke said and blast it with letro if the nolva hasn't fixed it.
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    in this!! Sorry im late bro ive been soo busy! ill be on logging later tonight! not gonna comment on your stack..looks like you got some solid advice! lookin foward to seein you get huge...er...??
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    in this!! Sorry im late bro ive been soo busy! ill be on logging later tonight! not gonna comment on your stack..looks like you got some solid advice! lookin foward to seein you get huge...er...??
    SWEET!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSwanks View Post

    Hrrrmmmmm...

    Noted for later research. If that's truly effective I'd much rather that route than letro
    Nolva is definitely another route as it specifically targets breast tissue growth. Another route is raloxifene, so many options its really down to personal preference. IMO Nolva is a good option on cycle to prevent it from getting worse but I'm not sure how you'd go reversing it when you've got so much test / estrogen in your system.
    Btw when we getting starting nudes? Need some for my spank bank... Wait what?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post

    Nolva is definitely another route as it specifically targets breast tissue growth. Another route is raloxifene, so many options its really down to personal preference. IMO Nolva is a good option on cycle to prevent it from getting worse but I'm not sure how you'd go reversing it when you've got so much test / estrogen in your system.
    Btw when we getting starting nudes? Need some for my spank bank... Wait what?!
    Ralox combined with letro/ or exemestane is by far the most effective treatment for gyno from the research ive read.

    Reason being is ralox is spefic to breast tissue while limiting systemic effects and action in peripheral tissues. Hay que leer....
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.
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    And dude 1life you need to get i.to my log too....so do all you other bozos!!

    Its just a log under the training section.


    -:hijack over:-
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.
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    Wtf da noods!?

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Wtf da noods!?
    Monte not everybody has the luxery of being a noodista like you...

    I for one dont wanna take pics of myself with handsome- davidian statue of a body of yours floatin around the innerwebz!!
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    And dude 1life you need to get i.to my log too....so do all you other bozos!!

    Its just a log under the training section.

    -:hijack over:-
    I'm totally there my man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Wtf da noods!?
    Hey big dog, glad you could make it to my little circle jerk!

    And noodz ARE coming...I promise! I just need to find the right lighting first. :-D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post

    Nolva is definitely another route as it specifically targets breast tissue growth. Another route is raloxifene, so many options its really down to personal preference. IMO Nolva is a good option on cycle to prevent it from getting worse but I'm not sure how you'd go reversing it when you've got so much test / estrogen in your system.
    Btw when we getting starting nudes? Need some for my spank bank... Wait what?!
    I guess I didn't realize nolva targeted breast tissue. I thought it just blocked estro from binding to receptors leaving it to build up in your system. Definitely something I'm gonna look into though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Nice! I know that worked pretty well for LTL too. So many different ways to skin a cat!
    Yes for sure it did. Zapped it with 40 mg Nolva for a few days and tapered to 10-20mg daily for rest of cycle. That cycle I still managed to add 15+ lbs and maintain while running nolva for last 2 months. Didn't ruin any gains.
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    yes nice topic of discussion here
    tho everyone seems to have differing opinions on what to use for gyno control while on cycle (always has been/always will be), and the effects of such on said cycle, I am pretty definitive and set in my own my own personal views
    a pretty good summation of my views can be found in this nice excerpt, I will leave here for educational purposes, if you wish to see supporting information of what I am saying:

    Nolvadex

    (Tamoxifen Citrate)

    Nolvadex is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) comprised of the active drug Tamoxifen first created by Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI.) Originally developed to provide a “Morning After” effect this soon proved to be useless. However, soon after it was discovered the medication had a much more valuable purpose in treating breast cancer; however, as is common among many medications, especially those of a testosterone or estrogenic nature other uses have been found and they have found a welcomed home in the performance enhancing world. While Nolvadex is not a steroid in any shape form or fashion its use in conjunction with anabolic steroids has proven to be invaluable.

    Nolvadex 101:

    Nolvadex is a member of the SERM class of drugs with very similar properties to Clomiphene Citrate. An antagonist of the estrogen receptors by-which it binds itself preventing active estrogen from binding in its place. A common mistake is to classify Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen medication in the same light as other SERM’s such as Arimidex or Letrozole; this is however incorrect. Anti-Estrogen SERM’s such as aromatase inhibitors, which are the from family of SERM’s Arimidex and Letrozole belong to actually reduce the flow of estrogen in the body; Nolvadex does not possess this trait, it merely blocks the hormone from action. Estrogen is a very important hormone for a properly functioning endocrine system as it greatly aids in immune efficiency, however, it can be often times the enemy when levels become too high and very problematic in anabolic androgenic steroid users.

    While aiding in blocking estrogen Nolvadex also possess other important traits. Nolva, as it is commonly referred has been shown to greatly aid in increasing both Luteinizing Hormones (LH) as well as total testosterone production. This is important because without LH there is no testosterone production and when we use anabolic steroids our natural testosterone production is more often than not non-existent. As you can see Nolvadex carries with it two distinct functions and purposes as it pertains to the anabolic steroid user, both during cycle and after cycle during what is known as the post cycle therapy (PCT) period.

    The Benefits of Nolvadex:

    As there are two distinct periods in-which a steroid user may use Nolvadex the purpose will determine the benefits in-which one wishes to obtain. While its mode of action by its very nature is the same regardless of the time in-which it is used the effects of use surround distinct purposes one from the other.

    The most common use of Nolvadex for an anabolic steroid user is during PCT. When we use anabolic androgenic steroids our natural testosterone production comes to a halt, regardless if our cycle was comprised of exogenous testosterone or not and remedy must necessarily be applied. It is for this reason it is imperative most base their cycles around testosterone but once the cycle is complete we must do all we can to bring natural production back to its natural state if we are to maintain any of the gains made while on cycle as well as maintain proper and adequate overall health. As Nolvadex has been shown to greatly increase natural testosterone production it only makes sense to supplement with it after a steroid cycle is complete. While a PCT plan will generally last 3-4 weeks this is not enough to bring your levels back to normal; however, it will greatly speed the process up.

    Another benefit to Nolvadex use as it pertains to the anabolic steroid user is while on cycle, while using anabolic androgenic steroids. Many anabolic steroids bring about strong estrogenic related side-effects, most notably Gynecomastia (male breast enlargement) or “Gyno” as it is commonly known. As many steroids convert to estrogen, thereby increasing estrogen in the body, once this occurs Gyno may be a problem. However, as Nolvadex can block estrogen from binding we can greatly improve our chances and often stave of Gyno. It is important to note, such side-effects like Gynecomastia can occur even with Nolva use in those who are more sensitive and if this is the case only an aromatase inhibitor such as Letrozole or Arimidex will be your saving grace.

    The Side-Effects of Nolvadex:

    Like all medications across the board Nolvadex does carry with it the potential for negative side-effects; however, the probability of such adverse effects remains very low. As discussed, some estrogen action is necessary in the body and it could be possible to limit this action when too much Nolvadex is being used; however, this is still very unlikely. There have also been some reports of negative actions regarding metabolic function but these appear to be extremely rare with little evidence to support a strong claim.

    As it pertains more directly to anabolic steroid users, as some estrogenic action is imperative to health, when it comes to growth some estrogen can be beneficial. Some steroid users report less growth when Nolvadex is used during a cycle as compared to Nolvadex free cycles; however, again, the evidence is inconclusive.


    Nolvadex and Clomid:

    For all intense purpose Nolvadex and Clomid are identical in almost every way; if you cannot obtain Nolva, Clomid is fine in its place or vice-versa. However, on a milligram for milligram basis Nolvadex is far more powerful; to reap the benefits of 10mg of Nolva you would need to supplement with approximately 75-100mg of Clomid. However, both medications are commonly found and cheaply and highly available as well as rarely counterfeited in any way.

    Nolvadex Cycles & Doses:

    Most anabolic steroid users will find a 10mg dose of Nolvadex every day while on cycle to greatly aid in the prevention of estrogenic related side-effects. While some may indeed need 20mg every day, in most cases if 10mg won’t get the job done stronger aromatase inhibitors are going to be your best bet. However, regardless of the total dose, as you can see from the side-effects discussed they are generally of very little concern and the SERM can be safely used the entire duration of the cycle.

    As it pertains to Nolva’s most optimal time of use, PCT the dosing will be much higher than if used during the actual cycle itself. Those who use Nolvadex for PCT will generally be best served with a dosing of 40mg every day for approximately 2 weeks followed by 2 weeks of Nolva at a 20mg per day dose. Those who wish to get the most out of their PCT will supplement with hCG before Nolvadex use begins; hCG use will begin after the steroid cycle and continue for 10 days to be followed by Nolva therapy.

    When you start your Nolvadex use for PCT will depend on the anabolic steroids you used at the end of your cycle. If your cycle ends with all short ester based steroids PCT can start almost immediately; generally 2-3 days after your last steroid administration, beginning with hCG first followed by Nolva or if no hCG is used Nolvadex may start approximately 5-7 days after the cycles end. For those who end their cycles with long ester based anabolic steroids, a waiting period will necessarily follow of at least 2-3 weeks after the final injection of anabolic steroids. hCG use may begin approximately 10 days after the final injection but Nolva will necessarily wait until the appropriate time.
    note that, while the phenomenon of reducing/eliminating estrogen while on cycle is not definitively stated to be certain to reduce the steroid efficacy, it is however, noted that this may indeed be an occurrence, and that generally stance on the issue is one certainly does not want to have total elimination of estrogen while on a cycle due to reduction of potential overall gains/potential detriment to overall health - I also happen to agree with this, to the extent it is worried about here

    conversely, some info on exemestane:
    Aromasin (exemestane) is a steroid-al AI - an irreversible aromatase inhibitor ... great for controlling estrogen "during cycle" and "PCT" ...

    But, what else does it do ???
    Good reading....

    ABSTRACT FROM JOURNAL OF CLINICAL ENDOCRONOLOGY AND METABOLISM

    Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose.

    RESULTS :

    The 25- and 50-mg doses of daily exemestane had comparable effects in suppressing circulating estrogen concentrations, with 38 24% (mean SD; P = 0.002 vs. baseline) and 32 29% (P = 0.008) decreases in estradiol concentrations, 71 12% (P < 0.0001) and 74 12% (P < 0.0001) decreases in estrone concentrations, and 45 27% (P = 0.004) and 51 20% (P = 0.02)

    BUT THERE'S MORE

    There was an increase in circulating testosterone concentrations after both 25 mg (60 58%; P = 0.001) and 50 mg (56 48%; P = 0.003) exemestane. Androstenedione concentrations were increased as well after 25 mg (32 36%; P = 0.004) and 50 mg (47 59%; P = 0.052) exemestane, respectively (Fig. 1Go and Table 2Go).

    SHBG concentrations were decreased by 21 7% (P = 0.0003) and 19 39% (P = 0.18) at 25 and 50 mg exemestane, respectively.

    Free testosterone concentrations were increased by 117 74% (P = 0.0001) and 154 95% (P < 0.0001) at both doses, due to the decrease in SHBG and the increase in total testosterone.

    THE ICING ON THE CAKE !

    There were no changes in circulating serum triglycerides, cholesterol, or LDL or HDL cholesterol concentrations with either dose of exemestane.
    testosterone levels are actually increased with exemestane use! total win
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    ^^KABOOM!!!!! STUDY BOMB!!!^^

    thats the reason ill only use exemestane!!
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.
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    Exemestane, in that study seems as though it would be the end all answer. Unfortunately, that study lacks a couple of key pieces of information that would be useful to an individual on an AAS cycle. I will pose a couple of questions that could maybe be answered here for the better understanding of both myself, and other readers.

    1. Q: Is T/E ratio not more important than a simple ideal E#

    We've all heard of the guys who get panels run mid-cycle and have an elevated E level (some I've seen as high as +300 and the individual in question had no sides associable to high E). While these numbers may seem outlandish, is T/E ratio not seemingly more important than simply keeping E as low as possible? 29 seems to be a good E# for an individual with a normal T level, yet someone running 500mg/EW has a T level somewhere closer to 3K.

    2. Q: What are the physiological and psychologic effects of having an E level that is too low?

    This answer is pretty simple (in many cases). Low E can wreak havoc on the body and mind. Loss of libido-check, achy, dry and painful joints-check, emotional instability-check, and the list goes on.

    3. Q: Will exemestane increase overall testosterone production in an individual running 500mg/EW of a long ester (such as cypionate or enanthate), and will that effect even be as pronounced as it would in an individual running nothing?

    I pose this question because at that level of use, I see the T producing effect of said substance to be negligible, at best. Now if we're talking about a guy who doesn't already have ~3K ng/dl of T sloshing around in his veins, then I can see the need/desire for it and why this particular AI would be appealing. But again I defer to the T/E ratio, which I think can be argued as more important than a simple number to shoot for when on cycle.

    4. Q: Is it not harder to get E numbers back UP to a tolerable level after they have already been "crushed" than it is to bring them DOWN to tolerable levels by using a(n) suicidal inhibitor/inhibitor?

    This is why I bring nolvadex/tamoxifen to the argument. If the concern is gyno, and not an overall E figure, then this seems like a no brainer. Not nolva, in particular, but the family of drugs known as SERMs. These target breast tissue pretty specifically without wiping out the overall level of E in the body. Everyone (well maybe not everyone, but most experienced users) knows that having E in your system is arguably just as important as having T, when the RATIO is correct.

    I pose these questions not to be a jackass, or to dismiss the value of SAI/AI, but maybe to shed more light on the subject, and to help anyone else who may have no fcuking clue as to what any of this stuff really does.

    Dave
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    nice info david, whether I agree with all of your points personally is beside point

    with that in mind: if it is your preference to use SERM, then roll with torem (best SERM for issue you speak of), or ralox
    I have no use for nolva really, when there are other options for gyno on cycle, than nolva
    in fact - would ONLY use nolva for very specific purposes, and still not sure I would use in these as (just mentioned) there are I feel better options
    I think nolva is the most commonly overused, abused, and misunderstood SERM out there, and one of those nasty little "outdated" concepts that simply refuse to go away
    just my .02
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    nice info david, whether I agree with all of your points personally is beside point

    with that in mind: if it is your preference to use SERM, then roll with torem (best SERM for issue you speak of), or ralox
    I have no use for nolva really, when there are other options for gyno on cycle, than nolva
    in fact - would ONLY use nolva for very specific purposes, and still not sure I would use in these as (just mentioned) there are I feel better options
    I think nolva is the most commonly overused, abused, and misunderstood SERM out there, and one of those nasty little "outdated" concepts that simply refuse to go away
    just my .02
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    nice info david, whether I agree with all of your points personally is beside point

    with that in mind: if it is your preference to use SERM, then roll with torem (best SERM for issue you speak of), or ralox
    I have no use for nolva really, when there are other options for gyno on cycle, than nolva
    in fact - would ONLY use nolva for very specific purposes, and still not sure I would use in these as (just mentioned) there are I feel better options
    I think nolva is the most commonly overused, abused, and misunderstood SERM out there, and one of those nasty little "outdated" concepts that simply refuse to go away
    just my .02
    Yep, nolva not necessarily the best SERM out there. Haven't used torem for gyno specifically but it's good stuff too.
    We don't have to agree on everything, but one thing I know we agree on is that this log is gonna be fun in a real ghey kind of way.
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    I still haven't found anything that says nolvadex effects breast tissue, just that it stops estro from binding to breast tissue receptors in order to halt growth. Which in and of itself is a positive effect for prevention measures, but if you've already got growth occurring I don't see by what mechanism it's able to reduce the tissue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    Yep, nolva not necessarily the best SERM out there. Haven't used torem for gyno specifically but it's good stuff too.
    We don't have to agree on everything, but one thing I know we agree on is that this log is gonna be fun in a real ghey kind of way.
    is not about agreeing/disagreeing stance on everything bro - the conversation itself is stimulating, I enjoy conversing with you (and usually learn something in the process)
    you are a knowledgeable dude -- as long as the topic is not hgh


    Quote Originally Posted by 1ifeblood View Post
    Oh, Hey Snags..?
    HAI there iowa!
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    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    is not about agreeing/disagreeing stance on everything bro - the conversation itself is stimulating, I enjoy conversing with you (and usually learn something in the process)
    you are a knowledgeable dude -- as long as the topic is not hgh


    HAI!
    Just wanted to point out I got your 6000th post! \m/ . , . \m/
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    Do AIs really crush estro altogether? Surely some atomization still occurs at low doses. I found this study that shows a decrease of E2 at 48% using .5mg of arimidex daily. Which I would think with T levels increased and some aromatization still occurring, that would still allow plenty of estro activity. Which would explain why some guys can still get gyno on AIs.
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    Search

    Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

    Authors

    Mauras N,*et al.*Show all

    Journal

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7.

    Affiliation

    Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. nmauras@nemours.org

    Comment in

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Apr;86(4):1836-8.

    Abstract

    We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    is not about agreeing/disagreeing stance on everything bro - the conversation itself is stimulating, I enjoy conversing with you (and usually learn something in the process)
    you are a knowledgeable dude -- as long as the topic is not hgh
    Learning is fun. I know it's not all about agreeing. We can all learn something, hopefully, in our quests to become better.
    Thanks for the compliment. You, yourself, are pretty well versed and many of us can learn from you.
    As far as HGH, that shizz is EXPENSIVE, and that is about all I need to know until I hit the lotto.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post

    Learning is fun. I know it's not all about agreeing. We can all learn something, hopefully, in our quests to become better.
    Thanks for the compliment. You, yourself, are pretty well versed and many of us can learn from you.
    As far as HGH, that shizz is EXPENSIVE, and that is about all I need to know until I hit the lotto.
    And I've got a LOT to learn! Which is why I'm glad I've got you guys here to help me through it. Now is my thinking on the right track or am I completely missing something?
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    Low doses won't crush your levels on a cycle but each ai will effect you differently. Letro being the strongest in my experience. Low dose ai off cycle could possibly get them a bit too low but you need blood work to see how YOU react. With 1800 t levels I was at 30 estro using .25 mg adex twice a week. I didn't expect my t level to be that high or another .25mg would have been added. Keep in recommended dose while dballing though.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    If not slightly higher

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Low doses won't crush your levels on a cycle but each ai will effect you differently. Letro being the strongest in my experience. Low dose ai off cycle could possibly get them a bit too low but you need blood work to see how YOU react. With 1800 t levels I was at 30 estro using .25 mg adex twice a week. I didn't expect my t level to be that high or another .25mg would have been added. Keep in recommended dose while dballing though.
    Isn't that right where you want to be? 25-50 is considered a good range to be isn't it? I was planning on .25mg/day while on dbol then dropping back to eod.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ifeblood View Post

    Isn't that right where you want to be? 25-50 is considered a good range to be isn't it? I was planning on .25mg/day while on dbol then dropping back to eod.
    Anything higher then 30 isn't good for me. I like the low 20 range. That dose while Bolling should be safe.

    Anabolics, AIs and the such are HIGHLY individualized. Better know your body well. And I wish I had seen your layout earlier. Straight test is what I would have suggested.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Lean bulking I would have said just test at 500 for 14 weeks. Especially for a first. This is a first right?

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Lean bulking I would have said just test at 500 for 14 weeks. Especially for a first. This is a first right?
    Yessir!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ifeblood View Post

    Yessir!
    Well. I'll be honest. Your don't know how you will react to just the test. So say your start getting gyno symptoms. ... is it the test or the dbol? Is it too much test with not enough ai? Or is the dbol pushing you over? To much dbol? See what I'm saying? Just test would put 15 on you at least. Save extras for hard gains down the road.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post

    Anything higher then 30 isn't good for me. I like the low 20 range. That dose while Bolling should be safe.

    Anabolics, AIs and the such are HIGHLY individualized. Better know your body well. And I wish I had seen your layout earlier. Straight test is what I would have suggested.
    I actually am very aware of how my mind and body is reacting. I've had a lot of experience with mood and mental experimentation so I'm confident with my awareness in that aspect. Since symptoms of unbalanced hormone levels carry a distinct affect on these aspects, I feel comfortable with my ability to spot something being off. And the fact that I have a plethora (yes I said plethora) of knowledgeable minds backing me up, this is set up to be one kickass first cycle! :-D
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    Just keeping it real. Everyone on here can tell you this and that and you will be fine if you do this but in the end it's all guessing cause they can't know how your body will react. Just looking out for you homie.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ifeblood View Post

    I actually am very aware of how my mind and body is reacting. I've had a lot of experience with mood and mental experimentation so I'm confident with my awareness in that aspect. Since symptoms of unbalanced hormone levels carry a distinct affect on these aspects, I feel comfortable with my ability to spot something being off. And the fact that I have a plethora (yes I said plethora) of knowledgeable minds backing me up, this is set up to be one kickass first cycle! :-D
    But you don't know how one of these things will effect you. Just be careful lol

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post

    Well. I'll be honest. Your don't know how you will react to just the test. So say your start getting gyno symptoms. ... is it the test or the dbol? Is it too much test with not enough ai? Or is the dbol pushing you over? To much dbol? See what I'm saying? Just test would put 15 on you at least. Save extras for hard gains down the road.
    I see what you're saying bro and appreciate the concern! I guess I figured that Dbol has such a short active life that I can manage it quickly and effectively. If I was trying to do the cycle reactively instead of proactively (only using AI/SERM if I start to get sides) then I would definitely do them individually to assess my reaction to them. But after reading through so many first cycle logs I just felt like I would have a clear understanding of how the Dbol is affecting me (because it kicks in so quickly) as opposed to how the Test is affecting me (since the dbol will be out of my system by the time it's really kicked in). Now I know my thinking is plagued with noobism so I could be WAY off and of course I'll defer to the concensus of those wiser than me. But at least tell me if I'm in the general vicinity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ifeblood View Post

    I see what you're saying bro and appreciate the concern! I guess I figured that Dbol has such a short active life that I can manage it quickly and effectively. If I was trying to do the cycle reactively instead of proactively (only using AI/SERM if I start to get sides) then I would definitely do them individually to assess my reaction to them. But after reading through so many first cycle logs I just felt like I would have a clear understanding of how the Dbol is affecting me (because it kicks in so quickly) as opposed to how the Test is affecting me (since the dbol will be out of my system by the time it's really kicked in). Now I know my thinking is plagued with noobism so I could be WAY off and of course I'll defer to the concensus of those wiser than me. But at least tell me if I'm in the general vicinity.
    Basicly yes you are correct

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post

    Basicly yes you are correct
    Sweeeet. ;-)
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