so m-sten or havoc?

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    so m-sten or havoc?


    I've heard back and forth that m-sten is or isn't good as a first PH so I was leaning towards a epistane... buuut I like the gains I've been reading about from m-sten. I'm not saying havoc isn't good. I'd just like to run m-sten more lol that is if its advisable. Also I'm looking more for strength gains than mass, but some mass is never a bad thing IMO (almost forgot to mention I'm not gonna be doing the cycle for a few months to get the ducks in order such as getting all my supps and serm for pct)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tovok123 View Post
    run epi for 6 weeks and pct then run m-sten for 4
    Bad idea...

    Do not do this!!!!!!!!

    You need a your time off I.e your time off is your cycle + pct.

    8 weeks off is the norm and preferred
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Bad idea...

    Do not do this!!!!!!!!

    You need a your time off I.e your time off is your cycle + pct.

    8 weeks off is the norm and preferred
    Haha I know not to do that but thanks for not letting my balls die if I didnt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tovok123 View Post
    Sorry I didn't mean go into it straight away after pct. I'd give it 6 to 8 weeks off
    Suuuuurre you did lol. I think I might have ovaries if I did it back to back(I hope you can sense the sarcasm here lll)
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    yeah I was about to say 8 weeks off after PCT minimum and I'd run epi for 6 weeks; I just finished a 4wk kick start between 40-50 and liked it a lot, hard to tell running with tren, but everything has gone up so far.

    Either way strength will go up with these two compounds (as long as you're not part of the unfortunate non-responders), it just depends on how much mass you wanna put on. When I ran SD I blew up, but at one point my bf raised a bit higher than I wanted to and after 6weeks of PCT I decided to cut before starting this cycle. Running Epi and several other things now, I've put the weight on cleanly and I don't look constantly ballooned up; well, when I hit sd again tomorrow, I know I'll have some adjusting to do to compensate for that.

    Make sure you have everything ready to go first and depending on what you run, you'll need quite a few things for supp/pct and we get ya from there.
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    Yeah that's why its gonna be a few months before I run it cause I'm slowly buying it all up, lack of free flowing cash sucks.
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    And one more question. Would it be wise for me to stack epi with stano for my first cycle? Ive seen a lot of guys do it to combat lethargy and libido issues
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post
    And one more question. Would it be wise for me to stack epi with stano for my first cycle? Ive seen a lot of guys do it to combat lethargy and libido issues
    yes, it would be a good idea, id get 3 bottles and go 8 weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    yes, it would be a good idea, id get 3 bottles and go 8 weeks
    Lol nice and quick reply' thanks
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    also if you haven't picked up your serm yet look into torem or clomid; no need for both one or the other is perfect.

    Epi can affect ppl differently, so I'd even look into an AI just in case; I take prami ed and exem eod; but then again I was running test/tren/winny (just started) + epi; from tomorrow on, replace epi with sd, and keep everything else the same, maybe tinker with test/tren/winny as the weeks progress.

    When the time comes or when you're slowly getting your funds together, keep bumping this and we'll get you on the right path with supps/pct and all that good stuff.
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    8 weeks
    Epi 30/40/40/40/50/50/60
    Stano 600/4 weeks
    800/4 weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    8 weeks
    Epi 30/40/40/40/50/50/60
    Stano 600/4 weeks
    800/4 weeks
    That much on the stano? Seems high from what I've been looking up for it for a first timer... then again y'all know more than me
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinX View Post
    also if you haven't picked up your serm yet look into torem or clomid; no need for both one or the other is perfect.

    Epi can affect ppl differently, so I'd even look into an AI just in case; I take prami ed and exem eod; but then again I was running test/tren/winny (just started) + epi; from tomorrow on, replace epi with sd, and keep everything else the same, maybe tinker with test/tren/winny as the weeks progress.

    When the time comes or when you're slowly getting your funds together, keep bumping this and we'll get you on the right path with supps/pct and all that good stuff.
    I decided on torem for pct along with daa and formeron as my AI and maybe a all in one pct product. For on cycle I figure the regular liver and joint supports and my daily multi
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    600 is a starter because of lethary that can hit.

    He can start at 400 but that dose may do nothing and be a waste.
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    1000-1400 was my sweet spot
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    600 is a starter because of lethary that can hit.

    He can start at 400 but that dose may do nothing and be a waste.
    try to start between 600-800 and ramp yourself up to:


    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    1000-1400 was my sweet spot
    spot on between these two, and it's worth it, I think you might have better success with stano as compared to transderm
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post
    I decided on torem for pct along with daa and formeron as my AI and maybe a all in one pct product. For on cycle I figure the regular liver and joint supports and my daily multi
    should be good togo and nice pick up with torem, that's my favourite at the moment, DAA 3g 3wks (if you don't notice bloat, you can stretch it out maybe 1 more week to 4wks), and I like formeron, just don't go too crazy with it and you'll be alright. Also, 2 weeks after PCT use minimum dose of formeron to prevent any rebound. I'd only suggest getting a test booster with fadogia or a straight up fadogia product and you're golden.
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    So my 6 week cycle would need 2 bottles of havoc or another epi clone and 3 bottles of stano?
    Loading with liver support and cycle assist a week before
    Epi
    30/40/40/40/40/maybe 50
    Stano
    600/600/750/750/750/maybe 900

    Pct
    Torem
    90/60/60/30/20? along with my daa and pct assist and probably pes erase as my AI if needed
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post
    So my 6 week cycle would need 2 bottles of havoc or another epi clone and 3 bottles of stano?
    Loading with liver support and cycle assist a week before
    Epi
    30/40/40/40/40/maybe 50
    Stano
    600/600/750/750/750/maybe 900

    Pct
    Torem
    90/60/60/30/20? along with my daa and pct assist and probably pes erase as my AI if needed
    just make sure with whatever clone you get to check the doses and shouldn't be an issue, depending on how you feel/left overs maybe bump the epi last two weeks to 50, that was the sweet spot for me, I didn't notice anything extra at 60 for a week and a half.

    stano needs to come up a bit more, 600 is a good start, but after second week start heading into 750-800 area for sometime and ramp your way up to 1k-1400.

    I'd hit 120 the first few days of torem and then continue normal doses after that; DAA + erase are very good staples for PCT and I'd use them even if you think you're feeling great, better safe than sorry ya know.
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    Thanks for the help y'all. Its been helpful, I'll update this or start a new thread when I start the cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinX View Post
    just make sure with whatever clone you get to check the doses and shouldn't be an issue, depending on how you feel/left overs maybe bump the epi last two weeks to 50, that was the sweet spot for me, I didn't notice anything extra at 60 for a week and a half.

    stano needs to come up a bit more, 600 is a good start, but after second week start heading into 750-800 area for sometime and ramp your way up to 1k-1400.

    I'd hit 120 the first few days of torem and then continue normal doses after that; DAA + erase are very good staples for PCT and I'd use them even if you think you're feeling great, better safe than sorry ya know.
    So I got a interesting question. Is havoc no longer made? Just ordered 2 bottles and orbit nutrition had A disclaimer saying item discontinued all sales final. But I got my 2 bottles lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post
    So I got a interesting question. Is havoc no longer made? Just ordered 2 bottles and orbit nutrition had A disclaimer saying item discontinued all sales final. But I got my 2 bottles lol
    Havoc is still available in some places, I picked up some for my cycle 2 bottles as well.

    I think they might have stopped producing it, but there should be a lot floating around, and there's quite a few clones out there that are just as effective. Since it's not banned [yet or I dunno if they plan to], there's gonna be a lot of companies with their own touch to it, just go with the respectable companies in the future and you're gtg.
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    Good to know, thanks
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    Alright so I was looking for stano and ran across sterone d3 instead of stano could I run this along side the havoc? Googled it and found a couple reviews that were good. Other than that not much. Anyone ever hear of it?
  

  
 

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