Epistane/stano stack advise/ideas

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    Epistane/stano stack advise/ideas


    Question: What should I stack with epistane for a nice lean mass gain? Maybe forget epistane for now and try something else? Any thoughts would be awesome!

    Background: Im 24, in college, 5'6, 165lbs, 4.5% body fat. It is extremely hard for me to gain weight. When I graduated high shool I weighed 108lbs with .7% body fat. Ive been lifing since 7th grade with the longest break being to go on a week vacation in the summer. Before anyone gets on me for being too young or not weighing enough I'm majoring in exercise science and nutrition, top of the class, I've done two cycles before (one was superdrol) and got blood work before and after both, and it was perfect. Made good gains on both, almost no sides. I eat a ton and my diet is and has been perfect for the last 4 years. I know what I'm doing and have suscessfully done it before with no problems.

    Extended question: After I ran SD my bf% rose to around 8% (high for me) so I wanted to run epi next. Well throughout the school year my body fat has gone back down so now I want something that will add a little more bulk than epi alone. I was thinking about stacking it with LGI Stanno since its non methal. Prostate is fine and ill be going to the doctor on a weekly basis and can stop if I need to; pct is ready to go. Epi for 6 weeks, stano for 8 weeks. So if I did this my cycle would look like:

    Epi- 0/0/30/40/40/50/50/50 Stano- 600/600/800/800/800/1000/1000/1000

    That would use the full two bottles of epi that i have, but im considering getting another and increasing all the doses by 10mg. Ill have CEL cycle assist and daa for a test base. Are those two together at those doses good for a lean bulk? Would anyone sugguest anything different? Any advise/ideas would be awesome, and thanks in advance!

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    Not calling you a liar but at .7% BF you'd be dead. Also, what does your diet look like now macro wise? I don't necessarily think you're too young but you need to tighten up a bit of your research. DAA is not even close to a test base.
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    I know it was low haha i would bascally die half way through any workout. And ill break down my macro probably tomorrow because i have an exam tomorrow. And i know daa isnt a test base but cycle assist is and daa will supplement that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    I know it was low haha i would bascally die half way through any workout. And ill break down my macro probably tomorrow because i have an exam tomorrow. And i know daa isnt a test base but cycle assist is and daa will supplement that.
    I'm not trying to be sarcastic. There is absolutely no way you have less than %1 BF and still alive. Cycle assist is not even close to a test base either. Not trying to be a jerk but your facts are way off man
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeySon View Post

    I'm not trying to be sarcastic. There is absolutely no way you have less than %1 BF and still alive. Cycle assist is not even close to a test base either. Not trying to be a jerk but your facts are way off man
    x2. less than 2%bf causes the fat means your body is now using the fat holding your organs in place for energy. less than 1% = dead. i have a feeling youre way off on your numbers and your 4.5% is closer to 8-10%

    post a pic and prove me wrong though. at your height, 4.5%bf and 160lbs would be pretty big
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    Dude body builders get their body fat less than 1% before shows, and theyre not 15 year old cross country runners. Bf testing devices are obv not 100% accurate but i promise you it was down there. Also cycle assist by cel is a test base. I will look more into it since you mentioned it just to double check though
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    Alright i will tomorrow with the macro breakdown
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    Also next wednesday in one of my labs ill be doing an underwater bf test so i can report that for a more accurate/recent one
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Dude body builders get their body fat less than 1% before shows, and theyre not 15 year old cross country runners. Bf testing devices are obv not 100% accurate but i promise you it was down there. Also cycle assist by cel is a test base. I will look more into it since you mentioned it just to double check though
    no they dont.

    and cycle assist is not a test base. a test base tives you a teststerone base while being supressed on cycle. cycle assist protects you from the compound side effects like bp, prostate, lipids, liver damage. no testosterone in it though. daa isnt a test base either, its a test booster a test booster doesnt boost **** if youre being supressed. thats like claiming 40% more test in an environment where youre producing low to no test. 40% of nothing is nothing
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    Ok, those are the numbers ive gotten throghout my life haha i dont care if you dont believe me or not. Ive found more reliable people state that cycle assist is a good test booster than reliable people who have said otherwise. If its not i guess ill be tired, oh well. I will post any info asked for when i get a chance. Until then, any info on the stack would be awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Ok, those are the numbers ive gotten throghout my life haha i dont care if you dont believe me or not. Ive found more reliable people state that cycle assist is a good test booster than reliable people who have said otherwise. If its not i guess ill be tired, oh well. I will post any info asked for when i get a chance. Until then, any info on the stack would be awesome.
    We're trying to give you advice on your stack and your pretty much calling us liars. Not gonna get a whole lot of help with that method
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    How am i calling anyone a liar? I told you that i thought cycle assist was a test base but i will look into it again to make sure. I said id post my macro for you when i get a chance. Im telling you both that the numbers i got were what i got whether you believe me or not. Ive done studies and written reports in the past where i found body builders getting body fats less than 1%. I have called no one a liar and am trying to provide all the information thats been asked and at the same time back up what i have stated. I appericate the test base comments and will look into them. Im not calling anyone liars haha and the fact that you asked for my macro shows that your willing to help and i thank you for that and hope that you will still help when i get a chance to post the info. Didnt mean to offend anyone, just trying to get off of those topics. Happens every time i mention my body fat haha.
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    Not tryna get involved and don't worry Joey I feel there won't be a long post here from me hahah [sorry that's my now on going joke from a few days ago].

    I was gonna say you can't talk ish to two of the many knowledgeable folks I know on this board trying to help ya out and then expect others to help, I was about to write a few things myself until I saw the page refresh with someone else tackling the 0.7 bf%; listen bro it's just not possible.

    I'm 6ft 3in and when docs thought I had cancer weighing around 132 a couple years ago, my bf wasn't even close to being that low and I was ripped/cup up like fck. I'm not trying to embarrass you or call you out, that's not in my nature; however, you lost me at saying DAA/Cycle assist will serve as a test base, really? I mean really really? You've said you ran SD successfully, assuming you didn't use a proper test base, I'm just curious what was your PCT?
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    Man i really dont know how im coming across as trash talking haha thats seriously not my intention. And i know .7% is really low and the second lowest ive ever seen it is 3.7% but that was almost a year later. The guy testing it was reliable and he was shocked too, tested it again, and it was the same. It was a scale though which has a variance of i think +/- .5% but still. Its what i got, and i still test really low. Might be off, but thats what i got.

    And for sd it was about a year ago so i dont remember exact doses of everything but i tapered clomid for 4 weeks starting around 100 down to i think 60, and some other support supps including aromasin. I honestly felt almost no sides while on it or on pct. Bloodwork was better than i expected and i gained 18 pounds, kept 15. If you would like i can try to get all the exact info? Its all in a log at home.
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    And as for test base, i believe you guys. Im not saying your wrong but i have seem/used them as mine and things ran as if i had one so i guess thats my bad. I really didnt mean to call anyone a liar by saying im pretty sure cycle assist is a test base. But if those arnt a test base, then what should i get for one? I was considering RS-Transaderm already since i was considering stacking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    And as for test base, i believe you guys. Im not saying your wrong but i have seem/used them as mine and things ran as if i had one so i guess thats my bad. I really didnt mean to call anyone a liar by saying im pretty sure cycle assist is a test base. But if those arnt a test base, then what should i get for one? I was considering RS-Transaderm already since i was considering stacking.
    Assuming you don't want to inject there are only a few things that will work as a "test base". There are a few transdermals that would work. Also, Stano is often called a test base but it is not. However, it does alleviate a lot of the symptoms associated with cycling such as lethargy and/or low libido. Happens to be one of my favorite products.

    Not trying to attack you but by claiming DAA or Cycle Assist are test bases there are people who would of come at you a lot more harsh than I did as neither are close to a test base. If you're biggest goal is mass there are a few other compounds that would likely work better but Epi is a popular PH overall.

    We can agree to disagree on the BF issue but post your macro's and some pictures when you get a chance and I'm sure this thread can actually go somewhere at that point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Man i really dont know how im coming across as trash talking haha thats seriously not my intention. And i know .7% is really low and the second lowest ive ever seen it is 3.7% but that was almost a year later. The guy testing it was reliable and he was shocked too, tested it again, and it was the same. It was a scale though which has a variance of i think +/- .5% but still. Its what i got, and i still test really low. Might be off, but thats what i got.

    And for sd it was about a year ago so i dont remember exact doses of everything but i tapered clomid for 4 weeks starting around 100 down to i think 60, and some other support supps including aromasin. I honestly felt almost no sides while on it or on pct. Bloodwork was better than i expected and i gained 18 pounds, kept 15. If you would like i can try to get all the exact info? Its all in a log at home.
    If you have access to another place, I would recommend getting that checked again; even at 3.7% if that's true with your size and weight, you should be pretty damn big with a 15 pack. Well, as long as you used a serm, ai and a few other things accordingly (proper doses/timing) after running SD, I'll say fair enough to that. At the end of the day we're trying to help ya, not with bro-science, but real science; so hearing numbers like you mentioned isn't possible, I mean just the bf%, not the bloods or other info. Don't take this the wrong way but it's just how ya came across at first and then followed up; I don't know who told you that cycle support is a a test base and a good test booster, because there are no ingredients in there to aid in that department at all and I'd stop listening to them.
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    Ohh i know, and you didnt even atack haha you were nice about it. And i thank you. But yeah i will get those up hopfully tomorrow. And like i said next wednesday ill be getting a more accurate bf test done so that should help too. And thanks again, i will look into all of those
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    Haha alright thanks sin. Yeah i get this stuff every time ive mentioned bf but ive gotten it tested at peobably 6 different places and have my own scale that can test it. And yeah i guess its my bad the way i was responding; hard to tell via text also. But ill try to get the rest of the info up asap. Thanks for the help guys!
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    Alright these are from the end of feb so pretty recent. If i had a camera with better quality, you can see the veins in my chest almost all the way to my heart. And also its hard for me to keep my weight and body fat this high. If i get sick i drop almost 10 pounds in a week and it takes over a month to get it back.
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    Yes im procrastinating from my school work haha. For macro if you want more in depth let me know. Im not tracking my diet currently as i dont have time, but when i start my cycle over the summer i obv will. Last summer/cycle along with this one will be the same since both are bulking.

    I eat good quality grilled meat (usually either chicken, steak, pork, mince beef) every meal, along with a side of whole grains (usually brown rice) and some sort of veggie (usualy green beans, peas, or brocalii). Protien and fat is pretty even throughout the day, and i get most carbs during my first meal and the meal after my workout. I have 6 meals a day. This is what i aim for:

    Protien- 350g
    Carbs- 500g
    Fats- 80g

    I almost always go over on protien and carbs (which i consider good) and over the years have figured out how much i can eat each meal to maximize intake. I usually can get around 5000 calories a day and eat as clean as possible. If i feel that what i got that day isnt enough and i cant eat enough my last meal i sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and drink a quick protien shake provided i have enough sleep.

    Also: I have a.d.d. so my meds speed up my metabolism and lower my appetite. But i will stop them for the cycle so that should help too.
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    Also since my legs arnt in the pics, theyre big since i played soccer for like 15 years. Havent maxed on legs recently but deadlift is probably around 340, squat 380.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Haha alright thanks sin. Yeah i get this stuff every time ive mentioned bf but ive gotten it tested at peobably 6 different places and have my own scale that can test it. And yeah i guess its my bad the way i was responding; hard to tell via text also. But ill try to get the rest of the info up asap. Thanks for the help guys!
    No worries bro and well I mean, I just can't explain that and it's all good I know at times when ya read something you kinda picture your own tone to it so no worries. Sounds like me you have an extremely fast metabolism and as long as you're hitting those macros with a good amount of fiber you should be good, if you want to slow down your metabolism a bit, put some honey into your protein shake or just take a table spoon in 2x a day. I'll take a look at what ya wrote later on, gotta take care of a few things on here before I head out for a bit.
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    Humm interesting. Never heard of that. Ill have to try. But yeah my metabolism has to be or theres something wrong with me haha. But its all good, no hurry, and thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Humm interesting. Never heard of that. Ill have to try. But yeah my metabolism has to be or theres something wrong with me haha. But its all good, no hurry, and thanks
    my fault it's not honey, use syrup I get those two mixed up a bit my bad on that. Don't eat syrup straight up, just put it in your shake.
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    Like maple syrup?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Like maple syrup?
    yes, I mean you're putting a bit of extra goo there, but for temp use during a lean bulk, I think that could help. With a naturally fast metabolism, unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do other than to keep your calories high in order to gain. With your pics, I really don't know how much more you wanna get shredded, but I think if you want to keep the same bf% and add as much weight as possible, I think epi and stano would suit well.

    If you read around you'll see that I'm a stickler for having proper support/serm, I know everyone has their own opinion, but if it's tried true tested and works, I wouldn't stray away from it. Since you've ran a couple before, including SD, I think you'll have a good gauge on your body already at this point and although epi/stano stack isn't nearly as harsh, nor does it come with the same sides, rather be safe than sorry. I say this every time, but I will try and avoid writing a thesis paper, so let me know what you have, what you plan on getting and we'll take it from there.

    Any other goals, short or long term in mind?
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    Im going to build pct once i figure out what im going to do in my cycle. I have clomid, aromasin, and cel's pct assist at home. Also have like 3 different AI's i could use. I have the little things like milk thistle, fish oil... Still havent had time to look at the test bases joey reccomended but will look at those and figure out pct soon.

    As for goals im just trying to get a bit bigger and stronger. If i get too much bigger i dont think ill be able to keep the weight since im already eatting about as much as i can haha. Strength could go up tho, its been almost a year since my last cycle so shouldnt put too much stress on tendons and ligaments. My shoulder and sternum were starting to hurt towards the end of sd but both have been good for a while now.
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    Ohh but yeah ill try the syrup thing too haha thanks for that and you think the epi/stano doses i have there are good? Ive heard a lot of people say eppi gives join pain too and ive always had mild joint pain, but i take NOW's joint support and it works awesome. No joint pain at all when im taking both that and fish oil.
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    Also im tight on money right now, would eppi alone at the higher doses i said be decent? How much would the stano actually help do you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Also im tight on money right now, would eppi alone at the higher doses i said be decent? How much would the stano actually help do you think?
    Epi by itself would be fine. Stano would be a nice addition but is certainly not a must have.

    Also, as far as diet is concerned, you seem to have a good grip on your macros. You are extremely lean as well (7-8%) so don't be afraid to ramp up those calories. Take advantage of the fast metabolism and lean physique as you could easily put on 15-20 pounds without losing any substantial definition.

    There are a few "home remedies" to slow down the digestion of the food in your stomach as noted above but there's not really a ton you can do to truly slow down your metabolism. If your main goal is simply adding mass, jack up those calories and keep the cardio to a minimum.


    Edit: I don't know much about ADD but I certainly wouldn't just stop taking your meds if the doctor has prescribed them.
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    my bad forget to get back to you until I just saw the update; as joey mentioned epi is great on its own and stano would aid in certain areas. It's not a test base (dermacrin/transderm), but it'll help with libido/lethargy, certain other sides. Make sure you have enough cycle support/MT/HB to last you pre-load and throughout cycle. I would also keep taking that joint support and throw another one in if you're concerned; if it's the glouc/chond combo that takes a bit of time to settle in.

    I could understand shoulders, but why was your sternum hurting? Don't bounce the weights off your chest otherwise you rest and lose the tension you're trying to maintain. On top of my many operations/breaks, I've had open heart where my sternum was cracked and after a couple of months I was hitting the weights again and never felt pain in that area since. I don't mean to sound like that, but if it's not your form, I'm just curious. Also hit between 7-10g of fish oil for intense joint pain and in conjunction with other things you should be alright.

    Joey hit everything else.
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    Not to jump in with the big boys and offer advice like I know a lot about ph cycling, but I know plenty about A.D.D. Depending on whether you are A.D.D. or A.D.H.D your doctor might have prescribed one of a few different meds. There are a few problems with not taking them. I believe you said you were in school. Your ability to focus and give attention will go out the window. So, schoolwork will be an issue. Also, they don't necessarily increase metabolism. Basically, people with A.D.D. have there system wired backwards. You're meds are probably strong stimulants that slow you down to an extent, giving you focus and a longer attention span. Those stimulants will suppress appetite quite a bit (giving the same effects of an extremely high metabolism). They will also have certain thermogenic properties(raising your body temperature) which would also aid in burning cals. You should definitely watch you bloodpressure. PHs have a tendency to raise it and the fact that you are taking prescription mega stims is only gonna make that worse!
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    Thanks guys! I will put all this together in a bit. And yes i will make sure i have enough of everything well before i start. I take joint support on a regular basis already so all good there.

    As for my sturnum, it was when i would do dips and stuff. My doctor said it was just tension on the muscle attatchments. Stretching and being off sd made it go away in like a month.

    And i take adderall which makes me feel like i can run through a wall haha. Heart rate goes up, all this stuff. I moniter everything since we look at all that in labs. But ill be doing the cycle during the summer so no school, and if i need to take it i will. I dont take it on weekends and stuff so i know i dont freak out or anything when im not on it haha. But without it i can eat quite a bit more.

    But thanks everyone, ill put all this together when i get a chance, post it, and see how it looks
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Thanks guys! I will put all this together in a bit. And yes i will make sure i have enough of everything well before i start. I take joint support on a regular basis already so all good there.

    As for my sturnum, it was when i would do dips and stuff. My doctor said it was just tension on the muscle attatchments. Stretching and being off sd made it go away in like a month.

    And i take adderall which makes me feel like i can run through a wall haha. Heart rate goes up, all this stuff. I moniter everything since we look at all that in labs. But ill be doing the cycle during the summer so no school, and if i need to take it i will. I dont take it on weekends and stuff so i know i dont freak out or anything when im not on it haha. But without it i can eat quite a bit more.

    But thanks everyone, ill put all this together when i get a chance, post it, and see how it looks
    Yes definitely make sure you have everything ready to go, before ya start. Be careful with your form and if you feel it that intensely, take a look at your form and try to make it easier on your joints/ligaments. Tension is great for muscles and what not, but extra stress on joints/ligaments nah. Try to chill with the addys as well, I mean, if you need them, just be careful because I took that a few times and although I'm pretty good with stims, but I wanted to run for miles, fight a group of ppl, then help my friends with their homework and exams; it's a legal meth pretty much and that in combo with a cycle, not good for your health. Once you have your rough draft, let us know and we'll take it from there.
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    Haha yepp, one of the main reasons i wasnt planning on taking it. First time i lifted after having it prescribed my 1 rem max on bench was like 205, that day i repped 225 4 times haha and accidently worked out for like 3 hours. So yeah ive learned to not do that. Have to lift at like 6pm now. But yeah it will be a while before i get that up since most of my stuffs at home and i wont be back there for a couple weeks, but i will as soon as i can
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW002 View Post
    Haha yepp, one of the main reasons i wasnt planning on taking it. First time i lifted after having it prescribed my 1 rem max on bench was like 205, that day i repped 225 4 times haha and accidently worked out for like 3 hours. So yeah ive learned to not do that. Have to lift at like 6pm now. But yeah it will be a while before i get that up since most of my stuffs at home and i wont be back there for a couple weeks, but i will as soon as i can
    yeah also try to stay away from working out that long on cycle as well yo, even with cardio keep it to 2 hrs 1-1:15 for lifting (sometimes less depending on how many exercises, intensity, distraction, etc) and the rest for cardio. Sometimes 5-10 min on the cardio warmup, light stretches, warmup sets, sets, resting, stretches again maybe a bit more time; but I think you know what I'm getting at. No rush do what ya gotta do then post it up when ya can.
    Everyday Is a Great Day To Die Hard
    Jesus Christ himself has blessed me with many gifts, one of them is knocking someone the fck out!
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    Yeah pretty much only cardio is warm up. I usually aim for 30-45 min high intensity weights which is already more cardio than i want haha. Hour tops on cycle.
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    So for those who were talking about my body fat being so low:

    My Bio-electrical Impedience scale said im 3.7% body fat
    Skin Fold- 4%
    Better BIA- 5.4%
    Under Water Weighing- 5.6%
    BodPod- 5.367%

    All on the same day, one right after another. All done with a professional (besides my scale.) The Bod Pod is supposed to be the most accurate out of all of them. So yes you were all right, my scale reads low

    But also that was at around 3:00 and i didnt eat anything before (woke up late, had class, cant eat or drink within two hours for accurate readings) and was down like 6 pounds from usual. But still, there you go
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