Additional Joint Support Recomedations

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    Additional Joint Support Recomedations


    Hello everyone. First fitness-related post here at AM, been stalking for months. Just looking if anyone has a simple add-on joint support supplement. I'm currently two weeks into my cycle:

    SD: 20/20/20/20/0/0
    Stano: 800/800/800/800/1000/1000

    Orange Triad: 3x2 per day
    Orange Oximega: 3x2 per day (12g total)
    Aegis (TUDCA): 3x2 per day
    Cissus XT: 2x2 per day (3g total)
    CoQ10: 100mg per day (for BP)
    Taurine: 6g per day
    Cycle Assist: 4x2 per day (dosed ~4 hours after SD/Stano doses)

    Protein: Cytogainer (make fun if you want) 2 scoops pre with snack, 4 scoops post
    Muscle Marinade: Up to one scoop pre depending (have BP cuff and monitor my BP throughout the day)

    I'm 25 years old, 6'2" 210 lbs, currently 9-10% body fat.

    Training is 6 day split early mornings. Info on request. 8 years experience.

    Diet is straight bulk (relatively clean food considering), but with great variety. 4500-5500 kcals, 125-175g fat, 250-350g protein, 500-750g carbs. More details on request.

    Don't think I'm missing anything... Anyway, my joints are getting extremely dry. Just looking for something to add to my Cissus and fish oil. Any critique on my cycle is also welcome!

    Oh yea PCT is:

    Clomid 75/50/50/25/0/0
    Erase 0/0/3/3/2/1
    DPol (DAA)
    and all support supps minus Taurine... Thought I'd throw that in before I get flamed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aevarts91 View Post
    Hello everyone. First fitness-related post here at AM, been stalking for months. Just looking if anyone has a simple add-on joint support supplement. I'm currently two weeks into my cycle:

    SD: 20/20/20/20/0/0
    Stano: 800/800/800/800/1000/1000

    Orange Triad: 3x2 per day
    Orange Oximega: 3x2 per day (12g total)
    Aegis (TUDCA): 3x2 per day
    Cissus XT: 2x2 per day (3g total)
    CoQ10: 100mg per day (for BP)
    Taurine: 6g per day
    Cycle Assist: 4x2 per day (dosed ~4 hours after SD/Stano doses)

    Protein: Cytogainer (make fun if you want) 2 scoops pre with snack, 4 scoops post
    Muscle Marinade: Up to one scoop pre depending (have BP cuff and monitor my BP throughout the day)

    I'm 25 years old, 6'2" 210 lbs, currently 9-10% body fat.

    Training is 6 day split early mornings. Info on request. 8 years experience.

    Diet is straight bulk (relatively clean food considering), but with great variety. 4500-5500 kcals, 125-175g fat, 250-350g protein, 500-750g carbs. More details on request.

    Don't think I'm missing anything... Anyway, my joints are getting extremely dry. Just looking for something to add to my Cissus and fish oil. Any critique on my cycle is also welcome!

    Oh yea PCT is:

    Clomid 75/50/50/25/0/0
    Erase 0/0/3/3/2/1
    DPol (DAA)
    and all support supps minus Taurine... Thought I'd throw that in before I get flamed.
    Honestly I think you have it all covered. I use OT and Cissus consistently with great comfort.

    Give them time to really work and you should be gtg
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    I was afraid of that. I switched from bulk fish oil to controlled labs right before I went on, and started cissus then too just as a precaution. Guess I should've pre-loaded the cissus for a couple weeks with the cycle assist... Live and learn.
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    I saw this a couple of days ago and I forgot to post here, because this topic has been one of my top 3 major concerns on/off cycle. From the looks of it you really have everything covered, I mean, I was using OT + Forged Joint Repair + Gloucasamine/Chron combo juice + 8-10 grams of fish oil plus a few other things and at one point my doc said to me that I was taking enough for a horse, told him I didn't care and never had a problem after that overload.

    However, what they don't tell you about gloucsamine and what not, is that it takes some time for it to kick in and stay in your system. Just keep at it and you'll be good in no time; I'm not trying to be funny but one relation I have to a fictional character is the amount of injuries I've managed to accumulate over the years; back, hip, shoulder, both knees and I still train like I'm getting back into the ring. Yoga and stretching will help a lot, it took me a couple of years to ease into it, that and my sensei beat that into me as I made a lot of fun with those "trainings"; however, you do those right alls I gotta say is dayum you'll notice a difference.
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    My exact go to joint stack is Orange Triad,Oxi-omegas,and Cissus XT .It has improved my issues greatly!
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    Yea I think I just didn't give it enough time pre-cycle to kick in. Hopefully I'll get some relief soon.

    As far as stretching and yoga, this is one area where I have no problem admitting my program is lacking. I've just started my research on proper stretching, and there seems to be so much misinformation on what kinds of stretching and when to incorporate them in. I mean hell, I'm just looking for some mobility stretches to ease up my joints before training!

    Anyway, no I was not planning on logging this cycle. Perhaps my next one. Only sides so far have been vicious back pumps, almost crippling after heavy deads (despite 6 grams of Taurine).

    Thanks for the replies! Look likes there's no "easy solution" and I need to continue to research stretching techniques.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevarts91 View Post
    Yea I think I just didn't give it enough time pre-cycle to kick in. Hopefully I'll get some relief soon.

    As far as stretching and yoga, this is one area where I have no problem admitting my program is lacking. I've just started my research on proper stretching, and there seems to be so much misinformation on what kinds of stretching and when to incorporate them in. I mean hell, I'm just looking for some mobility stretches to ease up my joints before training!

    Anyway, no I was not planning on logging this cycle. Perhaps my next one. Only sides so far have been vicious back pumps, almost crippling after heavy deads (despite 6 grams of Taurine).

    Thanks for the replies! Look likes there's no "easy solution" and I need to continue to research stretching techniques.
    No doubt and I'm glad ya wrote that, because I was going to tell you if you never tried it before, just ease into it; I won't lie, when I first started the intro to beginners was still intense and I felt just as sore as a typical calisthenic workout.

    Before w/o stretch the muscle you're gonna workout (hold for 10 seconds, anymore you might compromise strength/endurance). However, when you're done try to stretch for 20-30 seconds after a workout. Yes there is a lot of bad information with stretching, on top of the mentioned injuries I forgot to include a chest that had to be snapped in half for surgery on top of hand surgery (broke 9 knuckles, fun huh); so I know I was doing the wrong stretches at the wrong time. Make sure you read about flexion and extension stretches and see which one will apply to you, and always remember a stretch is not supposed to hurt, a burn is good, but not painful and breath through it.

    Those back pumps/calf pumps on SD are a killer, I know, I also throw in helladrol on top of that and well, there may be a few things we can do to help out:

    1. Take tuarine before and after workout (3 pre and post).

    2. Either 2x banana's or pill form of potassium/magnesium

    3. If it doesn't ease up and gets unbearable, might have to alternate deads (are you getting ready for a show/competition?)

    4. Stretch your back properly (prone, cobra, pelvic thrusts for hip/back and a slight crunch (knees up and slowly crunch, but don't tell your body come up too high, I'd say come up lightly when you're half way up on a crunch hold it for a couple of seconds and then slowly go back down and continue (you can definitely youtube this as I'm sure my explanation might be a bit confusing).

    5. At the moment STAY AWAY FROM LEG STRETCHES THAT INTEND FOR LOWER BACK! Very important and this is what set me back, I was doing the wrong stretches at the wrong time and damn did I pay for that.

    Since everyone is different and bodies will react differently to anything, be careful with new stretches and take your time with them, no point of rushing or tweaking anything, especially when you're trying to make that particular area more stronger, flexible and allow better blood/oxygen flow; give it a bit more time and before you know it, you'll wake up one day and say oh ish I feel like a new person. And of course, feel free to post up or PM and we got you.
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    Also don't purposely crack anything, if it happens naturally then it's no major biggy, but don't go twisting, jerking anything and snap it on purpose (hahaha sorry I know my mind is dirty, but didn't intend on a pun).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinX View Post

    No doubt and I'm glad ya wrote that, because I was going to tell you if you never tried it before, just ease into it; I won't lie, when I first started the intro to beginners was still intense and I felt just as sore as a typical calisthenic workout.

    Before w/o stretch the muscle you're gonna workout (hold for 10 seconds, anymore you might compromise strength/endurance). However, when you're done try to stretch for 20-30 seconds after a workout. Yes there is a lot of bad information with stretching, on top of the mentioned injuries I forgot to include a chest that had to be snapped in half for surgery on top of hand surgery (broke 9 knuckles, fun huh); so I know I was doing the wrong stretches at the wrong time. Make sure you read about flexion and extension stretches and see which one will apply to you, and always remember a stretch is not supposed to hurt, a burn is good, but not painful and breath through it.

    Those back pumps/calf pumps on SD are a killer, I know, I also throw in helladrol on top of that and well, there may be a few things we can do to help out:

    1. Take tuarine before and after workout (3 pre and post).

    2. Either 2x banana's or pill form of potassium/magnesium

    3. If it doesn't ease up and gets unbearable, might have to alternate deads (are you getting ready for a show/competition?)

    4. Stretch your back properly (prone, cobra, pelvic thrusts for hip/back and a slight crunch (knees up and slowly crunch, but don't tell your body come up too high, I'd say come up lightly when you're half way up on a crunch hold it for a couple of seconds and then slowly go back down and continue (you can definitely youtube this as I'm sure my explanation might be a bit confusing).

    5. At the moment STAY AWAY FROM LEG STRETCHES THAT INTEND FOR LOWER BACK! Very important and this is what set me back, I was doing the wrong stretches at the wrong time and damn did I pay for that.

    Since everyone is different and bodies will react differently to anything, be careful with new stretches and take your time with them, no point of rushing or tweaking anything, especially when you're trying to make that particular area more stronger, flexible and allow better blood/oxygen flow; give it a bit more time and before you know it, you'll wake up one day and say oh ish I feel like a new person. And of course, feel free to post up or PM and we got you.
    1) Already on it! Been hitting 6 grams/day and been playing with my doses: all 6 pre; 3 2 hours prior and 3 immediately pre; 2 evenly spaced 3 times a day... I'll try 3 pre and 3 post on Saturday for leg day.

    2) I've been pretty good about eating one banana per day. Upping it to two shouldn't be a problem.

    3) It gets unbearable. No shows or competitions, I just love deads (am I a masochist?). I do my lighter sets snatch grip with 2 plates lying on the ground (about 3-4" high), and my heavy sets are traditional with pronated grip. Maybe every other week I'll rotate in some rack pulls instead.

    4) I'm familiar with all of these. I was in physical therapy for a year after my second deployment. Just muscular stress caused by a hypomobile SI joint and scoliosis. Fukcing infantry. Ever since I started up weights again I haven't had any problems. I do these stretches every morning and evening. Heating pad in the mornings on back day. And foam rolling between sets of deadlifts, and also pre/post on back days.

    5) PLEASE ELABORATE! I usually throw in some basic hamstring stretches to hit my erectors as well. I'd like to hear more about your experiences with detrimental leg stretches.

    Overall, my core strength and stability has gone up exponentially the last couple of years. I'm not really concerned too much with the back pumps... It's more annoying that I have to rest so long between sets to roll it out and relax it.

    I'm more interested in learning some good shoulder stretches. I've seen a few threads that ZiR Red has posted in, I really need to check out his blog and see what I can work into my program. I usually don't have any shoulder joint pain, so it kind of took me by surprise when my shoulders started acting up as soon as I started my cycle. I knew it would dry them out some, I just didn't expect it to be so pronounced and happen so quickly.

    I have been hitting chest twice a week for the last month (I had been neglecting it, and it was starting to show). So it's possible my form could have slipped for some exercises. I'll see if I can have someone go with me next week and critique my technique. I also threw in "around the world" on an incline bench for about 3 weeks. Felt awkward and slightly painful so I took that out of my routine last week.

    Thanks for the responses. It really got me thinking if this is something I can fix with supplements; or if it is my technique, lack of proper stretching, or even an imbalance in my program.
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    damn took a long time to post this, been having server issues and I'ma write something more concerning shoulders after this post

    Quote Originally Posted by aevarts91 View Post
    1) Already on it! Been hitting 6 grams/day and been playing with my doses: all 6 pre; 3 2 hours prior and 3 immediately pre; 2 evenly spaced 3 times a day... I'll try 3 pre and 3 post on Saturday for leg day.

    2) I've been pretty good about eating one banana per day. Upping it to two shouldn't be a problem.

    3) It gets unbearable. No shows or competitions, I just love deads (am I a masochist?). I do my lighter sets snatch grip with 2 plates lying on the ground (about 3-4" high), and my heavy sets are traditional with pronated grip. Maybe every other week I'll rotate in some rack pulls instead.

    4) I'm familiar with all of these. I was in physical therapy for a year after my second deployment. Just muscular stress caused by a hypomobile SI joint and scoliosis. Fukcing infantry. Ever since I started up weights again I haven't had any problems. I do these stretches every morning and evening. Heating pad in the mornings on back day. And foam rolling between sets of deadlifts, and also pre/post on back days.

    5) PLEASE ELABORATE! I usually throw in some basic hamstring stretches to hit my erectors as well. I'd like to hear more about your experiences with detrimental leg stretches.

    Overall, my core strength and stability has gone up exponentially the last couple of years. I'm not really concerned too much with the back pumps... It's more annoying that I have to rest so long between sets to roll it out and relax it.

    I'm more interested in learning some good shoulder stretches. I've seen a few threads that ZiR Red has posted in, I really need to check out his blog and see what I can work into my program. I usually don't have any shoulder joint pain, so it kind of took me by surprise when my shoulders started acting up as soon as I started my cycle. I knew it would dry them out some, I just didn't expect it to be so pronounced and happen so quickly.

    I have been hitting chest twice a week for the last month (I had been neglecting it, and it was starting to show). So it's possible my form could have slipped for some exercises. I'll see if I can have someone go with me next week and critique my technique. I also threw in "around the world" on an incline bench for about 3 weeks. Felt awkward and slightly painful so I took that out of my routine last week.

    Thanks for the responses. It really got me thinking if this is something I can fix with supplements; or if it is my technique, lack of proper stretching, or even an imbalance in my program.
    Alright no doubt, looks like you got the first several things taken care of, just let it do it's magic and it'll come into affect, well I'm not sure when you exactly started it but could be a month, 2-3 for the gloucasamine/chrond to fully kick in and work. Up until those back pumps calm down, best thing to do is sit down right when you feel it, drink water and rest at least 2 mins (that's what I did on SD). Calf pumps are pretty damn annoying too, but I'd take those all day over back pumps, that's just me though.

    I've had PT several times throughout the past several years and although this was a long time ago,in an area where I sent for a contract I decided to go, because my back was killing me and I refused pain meds plus more cortisone shots. Before I tell you anything, I know our physical conditions are extremely different, but certain things I tried that they told me to do, set me back a lot longer. Just to tell you right quick about my back, I have 4 cracked (fully ruptured) discs, beginning at L2 going all the way down to S1 with stenosis and minor nerve damage; pain was from my mid back to literally all the way down to my right toe (and I mean everything between, including the bad boys and area that area due to pinched nerves).

    The culprits for me were laying on my back and doing single leg pull to my chest, double legged pulled to my chest, plus I know I naturally have tight hamstrings so I tried other things, laying on my back and trying to extend each knee up and forward to the ceiling and I believe all of that has done was tweak my back. A good thing for hamstrings, is to lay on your back (don't let it come off the ground), bend one leg and then cross it over the other one, then pull your hands through that small hole between your thighs, grab your knee and slightly pull back and you should feel that below your butt. I'm extremely careful with my back on this one, but for my hammies as well I'll spread my legs a good distance and slowly and carefully bend over; I touch the floor, the space between my feet and then I touch each foot with my opposite hand and I'll hold those for 10-15 seconds.

    I changed to different stretches where my back isn't compromised and haven't had a problem since; however, I refuse to do squats/deads ever again. If you love doing them, don't let anyone tell you different, just keep an eye on it and if it really doesn't get better, change your routine up for a several weeks and ease back into it. On top of doing shoulder stretches also do neck rolls and neck stretches, for most folks that's where all the tension builds up and just make sure to stretch both sides; I know one side will be a bit tender than the other, but don't rush into it, slowly get there and make sure to breath normally during all stretches.

    Well, since the problem is your shoulder, just take it easy with certain exercises by either doing higher reps and lower weights/use a machine until it feels better; that goes for chest/shoulder/trap days and even be careful with arms, if your form is off, you could be hitting the wrong muscle area. If it's slightly painful and you feel fine over the next couple of days, that's fine; however, if that lasts for longer than a few days you're not going to be doing yourself any favors by trying to push through it. It also depends on the kind of pain you're feeling is it sharp, burning, dull or achy? If you feel a weird tingling sensation or straight up numbness, it's nerve entrapment and will go away after proper technique, sleeping the right way, lack of stretching could very well play a part of all of that in combination with each other.

    As long as you're training properly hitting a good combo of more compound and several isolation exercises you'll be alright and the only time I can see there being a major imbalance is if you completely stop working out a certain muscle group for several weeks; everyone is different, but if I take more than a week off it feels like I lose my strength a bit and depending on goals I'll either go higher/lower and adjust to that until I either feel better or time to change it up. My bad for writing a lot, I know there's a lot more I could write but I'll hold off for now and if you have any more questions post it up or feel free to PM me. SD will without a doubt dry up your joints as well.
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    So for the shoulders there's a couple of things that I've been doing to help them loosen up and not have the crunchy feelin all the time.

    Start with your hands behind your back, interlock your fingers and drive your hands down to the floor, keep a straight back, spread your legs just a lil bit (quite a bit less than power stance). You should feel and hear some cracking in your upper shoulders; if you do or don't that's fine, just hold that stretch for 10 secs before w/o and 20 secs after.

    Another one someone I knew coined as high five back five, is where you start off with your hands raised where your elbows are near your head and your extend back for a few seconds, breath out into the complete opposite of that, where it looks like you're giving a big double hand back five; hahah well ten actually, but ya know what I'm getting at.

    One of my favorites is to bend down semi squat position, however you want to be very comfortable here, while you're leaning semi forward, you rotate your shoulders/arms one by one in circular motions and as long as you're doing them right you'll loosen that upper region up quite well.

    If your gym has a stretching station where it looks like you could be using a bicycle, there's a semi rocking chair with handle bars, some have cables to hold onto and some don't. Since mine doesn't I'll tell you that way and if yours has a wrist cable it makes it a bit easier to keep stability (once you practice without it, you'll notice a difference). While most of them also have instructions on it, some of them may be broken off, like mine so I'll give ya a few pointers. This is really better for post workout and these are also great for hammys, glutes and quads.

    For shoulders you want to grab the top handle bar and rock back all the way on the chair, hold that for 20 seconds, then turn your head to each side and hold that for another 20 seconds. Just make sure it's not painful or you feel too much pressure and if you do, continue the stretch and lightly pull away till you're comfortable; but of course you want to feel a slight burn, not incredibly painful. You can also do that with one arm and once you get loosened up more you'll be able to even get on the very edge on the chair and get that fully stretched out.

    Same thing with your legs that I forgot to mention above, if you have that station or plan on purchasing one, it's gonna target from your neck down to your calves and although the stretching positions may be limited, it's still a whole lot better than most things going on.

    For hammy's and shoulders, hit wall pushes, well don't push into the wall mad hard, just make sure you're arms are extended enough where you can feel that stretch and lightly dip down, pushing out through your shoulders and then down where you feel the stretch in each leg, do it one leg at a time; I'm sure you can find a video as I know my explanation on this one ain't that great.

    Another way to hit them is if you find an object that comes up to your shins, with one leg at a time, rest your toes and front part of your foot there
    and lightly push into it and you'll feel that from your glutes down to your hammy's and maybe a bit lower depending on how deep ya go.

    I think that covers a good basic to start off with and try those stretches, I'm sure you're already doing some of them or looking into them, but just like working out, don't over do it and you'll be feelin better in no time.
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    Wow man. That helps a lot. I really appreciate the shoulder stretches. It'll be a good place for me to start. They feel much more effective than the few medieval ones I've been doing.

    I'm going to give the cissus some time to work, and slowly start to incorporate a few stretches into my pre/post workout routines. The information you've provided is a good jumping off point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevarts91 View Post
    Wow man. That helps a lot. I really appreciate the shoulder stretches. It'll be a good place for me to start. They feel much more effective than the few medieval ones I've been doing.

    I'm going to give the cissus some time to work, and slowly start to incorporate a few stretches into my pre/post workout routines. The information you've provided is a good jumping off point.
    No worries bro I got you and I know certain stretches are trial and errors for others, but I feel ya on those medieval stretches I used to do as well, and I realized all I was doing was putting an unnecessary amount of force and pressure on me joints and ligaments.

    I hate making this comparison, but I wanted for the joints to kick in like I waited for hella/osta to kick in, takes several weeks, but once it does you'll be feeling a whole lot better and as long as you don't get one of the really few sides from gloucasamine/chron (diarrhea, etc) then keep going max dose and slowly taper once you feel better. I don't mean completely taper off it, just to reasonable doses. They say all you need is 1500-2000, I say b/s, I was hitting 8-10 and that took around 2-3 weeks on top of the several other things I was taking; so I did 8-10g a day for nearly a month and then slowly cut down to 7 then 6 then stayed at 5 for a while then dropped it to 3 and soon enough I'll be upping everything up again when I start my cyc and plan on pre-loading joint repair, joint force and OT during that week as well just to get things started.

    Let me know how those treat you after sometime and from there we'll move onto intermediate then take it from there, best of luck bro!
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    Also for shoulders:

    Swimmers row: place in foot in front of the other and keeping your shoulder loose and free from tension as possible, mimic a swimmers row with only one arm and rest your other arms hand on your stomach and do this slowly, you'll feel your shoulder open and up a bit more. Hit this 3 times before workout each shoulder, then 4-5x after w/o.

    I'm sure you've tried/possibly do the hand circles, keep your arms straight out to your side and rotate them in a small circle.

    If you really wanna open up, put your hands down and that of crane style (index to ring finger is straight with your thumb, not tucked in), but resting right before your you touch the nails on the backside of your hand. In that position, arms straight to the side, hands down and unlike the swimmers row, use both shoulders and go circular motion forward 4-5x and then backwards 4-5x.
    Everyday Is a Great Day To Die Hard
    Jesus Christ himself has blessed me with many gifts, one of them is knocking someone the fck out!
  

  
 

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