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    Havoc Begins


    Started my first cycle yesterday. I'm running Havoc at 20 days 1-2 then 30/30/40/40. Running CEL Cycle Assist, Creatine Mono, fish oil and a multi on cycle. Got my PCT as well. Not sure if its a placebo effect but I feel like I have more energy than I've ever had in my entire life. I'm twenty eight years old. 5'10" and 155lbs. Hoping to get some solid gains on this cycle and boost strength. Will post weekly updates as I go along. Super stoked to be on my first cycle.

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    epistane at 155? i think there were some "better" options. i use the term lightly though based on your diet
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    epistane at 155? i think there were some "better" options. i use the term lightly though based on your diet
    Yeah I've heard that from some people and others say its a good first cycle PH. My diet is not clean by any standards since I'm trying to get an all out fuller look. I've always been lean and had a lazy mans 6 pack without ever working out. But since I've been chugging Up Your Mass shakes and popping the Creatine, I've went from 143 to 155 in about 2 weeks. Now adding this to the mix, I figured I could expect decent results. Also just trying to get a cycle under my belt for when I move up to the "real" stuff lol.
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    At least you're old enough to do this. Enjoy your cycle man, always a good time. And placebo or not, all that energy is a positive

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2 View Post
    At least you're old enough to do this. Enjoy your cycle man, always a good time. And placebo or not, all that energy is a positive

    Sent from my super duper VS920 4G using Am.com app!
    Hey thanks and yeah I'm at work, of all places, and feel wired. Hit the weights yesterday and felt amazing pumps in my biceps. First time I've ever had that. And I hope it is like you said, a good time
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post

    Hey thanks and yeah I'm at work, of all places, and feel wired. Hit the weights yesterday and felt amazing pumps in my biceps. First time I've ever had that. And I hope it is like you said, a good time
    Haha yeah it's hard stop doing cycles. I always enjoy the way I feel regardless of what time of day it is. What's your pct look like? Saw you had pct but was wondering what the layout was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2 View Post

    Haha yeah it's hard stop doing cycles. I always enjoy the way I feel regardless of what time of day it is. What's your pct look like? Saw you had pct but was wondering what the layout was.

    Sent from my super duper VS920 4G using Am.com app!
    I have Nolva on hand but I also have iForce Reversitol V2. Thinking about only running Reversitol since I've read good feedback running that maybe along side PCT Assist. Have you ran epi/havoc before? If so, what did you experience.
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    No SERM, no cycle. Do it cautiously the first time, experiment later.
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    Why not run for 6 weeks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstep View Post
    Why not run for 6 weeks?
    Think that's too long for a noob? Just curious
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    Re: Havoc Begins


    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    Think that's too long for a noob? Just curious
    Nope. 4 weeks is when you start to get to the good part. You should be fine as long as you aren't at the local college binge drinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post

    Nope. 4 weeks is when you start to get to the good part. You should be fine as long as you aren't at the local college binge drinking.
    Hahah nope. I'm almost 30, married with 2 young kids! No drinking here. Well, socially but not during this time. And this might sound dumb, but what do you mean "the good part" Is it a feeling mentally wise or a physical strength. And thanks for your input guys, makes this alot easier on a noob.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post

    Hahah nope. I'm almost 30, married with 2 young kids! No drinking here. Well, socially but not during this time. And this might sound dumb, but what do you mean "the good part" Is it a feeling mentally wise or a physical strength. And thanks for your input guys, makes this alot easier on a noob.
    Also, stick with the same dosage or change for 6 weeks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    No SERM, no cycle. Do it cautiously the first time, experiment later.
    Really? Hey you're doing a cycle? No SERM? Oops gotta have one. Doesn't matter if I'm wasting it because my PH isn't estrogenic or not. Only thing to worry about with one like Havoc would be conversion to E, and thgats not even an issue. Maybe have a SERM around in vase something goes wacko or for a pct. A person who isn't gyno prone doesn't even have estrogen rebound to an obvious degree on 20-30 of Epi each day.. Be original. Don't copy cat what you here. Use a SERM where necessary. Don't just tale it for granted. They aren't the answer
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    P.S. I am all for being cautious and I still am cautious and I'm not a first timer
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    Re: Havoc Begins


    Start to really see the gains and hardness after four weeks. Keep it at 40 for two more weeks and you will thank me Epi is mild. I ran it at 60 for eight weeks and had no sides besides being dried out. I wouldn't recommend that for a novice tho.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    Also, stick with the same dosage or change for 6 weeks?
    up to 50mg 5th or 6th week if ud like. i hear 50mg is fun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Start to really see the gains and hardness after four weeks. Keep it at 40 for two more weeks and you will thank me Epi is mild. I ran it at 60 for eight weeks and had no sides besides being dried out. I wouldn't recommend that for a novice tho.
    Ok cool man thanks again for your advice. I'll run for 6 and keep it at 40 as I hit the last 3 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    Really? Hey you're doing a cycle? No SERM? Oops gotta have one. Doesn't matter if I'm wasting it because my PH isn't estrogenic or not. Only thing to worry about with one like Havoc would be conversion to E, and thgats not even an issue. Maybe have a SERM around in vase something goes wacko or for a pct. A person who isn't gyno prone doesn't even have estrogen rebound to an obvious degree on 20-30 of Epi each day.. Be original. Don't copy cat what you here. Use a SERM where necessary. Don't just tale it for granted. They aren't the answer
    Although epi isn't supposed to convert, it's been known to happen, just like SD wasn't supposed to be hepatotoxic. If I were a copycat, I would have flamed him for even suggesting not using a SERM.
    Am I on cycle right now? Are you asking me?
    He's running a compound for the first time in his life. His system will be suppressed. Not using a SERM after 4 or even 6 weeks of a "mild compound" like epi is or Halodrol is like asking for rebound gyno. Why not do it the safe way and use the SERM if you have it on hand? And how would he know whether he's prone to gynecomastia if he's never used? Better to be proactive than reactive. Why wait til something "goes wacko" if you can prevent it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post

    Although epi isn't supposed to convert, it's been known to happen, just like SD wasn't supposed to be hepatotoxic. If I were a copycat, I would have flamed him for even suggesting not using a SERM.
    Am I on cycle right now? Are you asking me?
    He's running a compound for the first time in his life. His system will be suppressed. Not using a SERM after 4 or even 6 weeks of a "mild compound" like epi is or Halodrol is like asking for rebound gyno. Why not do it the safe way and use the SERM if you have it on hand? And how would he know whether he's prone to gynecomastia if he's never used? Better to be proactive than reactive. Why wait til something "goes wacko" if you can prevent it?
    I'm pretty sure I'm not prone to gyno. No one in my family has had that at all in any way shape or form. And like I originally said, I have Nolva on hand. Never said I didn't have a SERM. So that aspect is out the window. I said I have Reversitol V2 from iForce as an assist or to run alone as PCT since I've seen many people use is as a stand alone PCT and not have any issues. It was just a suggestion.
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    Re: Havoc Begins


    Use nolva.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post

    I'm pretty sure I'm not prone to gyno. No one in my family has had that at all in any way shape or form. And like I originally said, I have Nolva on hand. Never said I didn't have a SERM. So that aspect is out the window. I said I have Reversitol V2 from iForce as an assist or to run alone as PCT since I've seen many people use is as a stand alone PCT and not have any issues. It was just a suggestion.
    No, I know you have the SERM that's why I said to use it. My quote was for the other dude who basically called me a dumdum for saying that you should use it. Although no one in your family has ever had gyno, you can induce it through the use of DS because of the way you are manipulating your hormones (in a nutshell). I'd rather you enjoy your first cycle and its results through PCT than have you trying to combat something that you could have possibly prevented. That's just my .02 though.
    And I'm not a parrot. I have, in fact, used epi on more than one occasion, years ago.
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    Use a SERM fool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    Use a SERM fool.
    Haha yeah man. I will. Thanks guys. At ease soldiers lol
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    Wednesdays workout: 4x10 Arnold Press. 4x10 Bent Arm Side Laterals. 4x10 Front Dumbbell Raises. 4x10 Dumbbell Shrugs. All at 30lbs. Felt some amazing pumps in my upper back/shoulder blades last night. Loved this workout. Hoping I can do this with the 50s soon!
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    Yesterday's workout was insane. Today I feel like I've made some progress. My posture looks different. Like when I stand up straight it looks like I have a more broad chest and shoulders. Like a normal person I would say lol. Definitely don't look like I'm skin and bones anymore. So far, the progress of about 1/2 week is making me pumped. Will work out 5 maybe 6 days a week and get plenty of rest on day off. The visual progress of getting bigger makes me want to hit the weights and train even harder.
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    Here's a pic from today. Can definitely tell my traps and shoulders are filling in nicely. Still have a way to go but the motivation is off the chart.

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    It's always the skinny kids that cycle instead of just eating an excess . Sigh. At least you're doing it properly :|
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    I didn't think I needed a SERM either my first time... and when you get done your 6 weeks, you'll feel fine. Don't fool yourself though, especially if you bump it to 40 or higher for the last few weeks. You will definitely be shut down and will probably lose much of your gains if you go OTC like I tried after 6 weeks of Hdrol (4 wks being @ 100). You won't even start to "feel" anything until 18-25 days into the cycle. Just a weight gain of a few pounds at first. 3-4 weeks and you'll be like oh hell yea, everything is light haha.

    Your natural body likes you at 155 lbs though and that's right back where you'll end up a lot of times without a SERM. Being that light in the first place, it is honestly far more beneficial to gain all natty until 20 lbs or so later. Cycling from a point that you could still easily gain more natty is really selling yourself short in the long run. You'll get to a nice weight in 6 weeks but... if you would have done it natty and then cycled.... now you're in a whole new realm and sitting at a beastly 5'10" 200+. Just my 2 cents. Your first cycle will always be the most potent

    I know you said you'll take a SERM but so did I until I thought I was fine a week or two after my last dose (continuing to lose weight). I did the reactive Nolva dosing 3 weeks into PCT instead of the proactive Nolva dosing right off the bat (never again making that mistake) and it was a little disappointing to see 5-6 pounds go out the window that I could have probably saved.

    Never the less, be safe and have fun man! You can still gain natty if you want afterwards.
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    Yeah I'm gonna do natty after this. And I'm going to do everything in my power to keep my gains. This is off topic but my arms started out at 12" which is pathetic and now they're almost 13". I used gainer shakes for a month before I started so that might have something to do with the quick jump up. Thanks again for your input. And I agree, I could of waited and done things differently and I will from now on. Life's a constant learning cycle



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    Yeah I'm gonna do natty after this. And I'm going to do everything in my power to keep my gains. This is off topic but my arms started out at 12" which is pathetic and now they're almost 13". I used gainer shakes for a month before I started so that might have something to do with the quick jump up. Thanks again for your input. And I agree, I could of waited and done things differently and I will from now on. Life's a constant learning cycle



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    You won't ever see an inch in a month without serious gear. Its probably a coincidence of measuring after a work out or something. A whole inch is much more than it seems. I've gained 2 inches in about 3+ years. Granted inches are WAY harder for a guy my height.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    You won't ever see an inch in a month without serious gear. Its probably a coincidence of measuring after a work out or something. A whole inch is much more than it seems. I've gained 2 inches in about 3+ years. Granted inches are WAY harder for a guy my height.
    Yeah I worked arms 2 days ago. Been at work all day and haven't done anything that would require my arms to get pumped. So idk, who knows lol. Either way, I'm happy haha
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    Following man.
    Hows the weight going? any sides? Who is your Havoc by?
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    Also Whats your training routine like?
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    Quote Originally Posted by leanfrk View Post
    Following man.
    Hows the weight going? any sides? Who is your Havoc by?
    It's made by RPN. And no sides so far. Again I'm only 3 days in. Weight is up 12lbs but mostly from weight gainers
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    Quote Originally Posted by leanfrk View Post
    Also Whats your training routine like?
    6 on one off. Going hard. Chest/Tri, Shoulders/Biceps, Legs/Abs. Not in that order. Still sorting things out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    6 on one off. Going hard. Chest/Tri, Shoulders/Biceps, Legs/Abs. Not in that order. Still sorting things out.
    I am currently 12 days into my Halo Extreme and I am getting fantastic results and this is my routine. Consider this for yourself maybe?Monday-Chest/Back 5-10repsTuesday-Shoulders/Deadlifts/Abs 5-10repswednesday-Bicep/Tricep 5-10repsThursday-Squats/Abs 15-3repsFriday-Chest/Back 15-30repsSaturday-Bicep/Tricep 20-40repsReally looking forward to hear how this goes for you as I ordered RPN Havoc on monday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leanfrk View Post
    I am currently 12 days into my Halo Extreme and I am getting fantastic results and this is my routine. Consider this for yourself maybe?Monday-Chest/Back 5-10repsTuesday-Shoulders/Deadlifts/Abs 5-10repswednesday-Bicep/Tricep 5-10repsThursday-Squats/Abs 15-3repsFriday-Chest/Back 15-30repsSaturday-Bicep/Tricep 20-40repsReally looking forward to hear how this goes for you as I ordered RPN Havoc on monday.
    You may feel good but it will take almost twice that long to start affecting any strength or body composition. You will gain a few pounds off the bat in the first week but thats all. Placebo and motivation are an amazing combo, though. Just wait until 25 days in, then you will really like.


    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    It's made by RPN. And no sides so far. Again I'm only 3 days in. Weight is up 12lbs but mostly from weight gainers
    I think he was asking in reference to since starting Havoc. Have you gained anything since your first dose? You'll prob put a few pounds on in the first week, just getting primed up though Week 3-6 tells the true tale.
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    Did chest and triceps today. Tomorrow is much needed abs. Today is day 4 and the 3rd day at 30MG.



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