Havoc Begins

SkinnyChase

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Started my first cycle yesterday. I'm running Havoc at 20 days 1-2 then 30/30/40/40. Running CEL Cycle Assist, Creatine Mono, fish oil and a multi on cycle. Got my PCT as well. Not sure if its a placebo effect but I feel like I have more energy than I've ever had in my entire life. I'm twenty eight years old. 5'10" and 155lbs. Hoping to get some solid gains on this cycle and boost strength. Will post weekly updates as I go along. Super stoked to be on my first cycle.

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OnionKnight

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epistane at 155? i think there were some "better" options. i use the term lightly though based on your diet
 
SkinnyChase

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epistane at 155? i think there were some "better" options. i use the term lightly though based on your diet
Yeah I've heard that from some people and others say its a good first cycle PH. My diet is not clean by any standards since I'm trying to get an all out fuller look. I've always been lean and had a lazy mans 6 pack without ever working out. But since I've been chugging Up Your Mass shakes and popping the Creatine, I've went from 143 to 155 in about 2 weeks. Now adding this to the mix, I figured I could expect decent results. Also just trying to get a cycle under my belt for when I move up to the "real" stuff lol.
 
Lhns2

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At least you're old enough to do this. Enjoy your cycle man, always a good time. And placebo or not, all that energy is a positive :)

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SkinnyChase

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At least you're old enough to do this. Enjoy your cycle man, always a good time. And placebo or not, all that energy is a positive :)

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Hey thanks and yeah I'm at work, of all places, and feel wired. Hit the weights yesterday and felt amazing pumps in my biceps. First time I've ever had that. And I hope it is like you said, a good time :)
 
Lhns2

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Hey thanks and yeah I'm at work, of all places, and feel wired. Hit the weights yesterday and felt amazing pumps in my biceps. First time I've ever had that. And I hope it is like you said, a good time :)
Haha yeah it's hard stop doing cycles. I always enjoy the way I feel regardless of what time of day it is. What's your pct look like? Saw you had pct but was wondering what the layout was.

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SkinnyChase

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Haha yeah it's hard stop doing cycles. I always enjoy the way I feel regardless of what time of day it is. What's your pct look like? Saw you had pct but was wondering what the layout was.

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I have Nolva on hand but I also have iForce Reversitol V2. Thinking about only running Reversitol since I've read good feedback running that maybe along side PCT Assist. Have you ran epi/havoc before? If so, what did you experience.
 
iparatroop

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No SERM, no cycle. Do it cautiously the first time, experiment later.
 
Montego1

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Think that's too long for a noob? Just curious
Nope. 4 weeks is when you start to get to the good part. You should be fine as long as you aren't at the local college binge drinking.
 
SkinnyChase

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Nope. 4 weeks is when you start to get to the good part. You should be fine as long as you aren't at the local college binge drinking.
Hahah nope. I'm almost 30, married with 2 young kids! No drinking here. Well, socially but not during this time. And this might sound dumb, but what do you mean "the good part" Is it a feeling mentally wise or a physical strength. And thanks for your input guys, makes this alot easier on a noob.
 
SkinnyChase

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Hahah nope. I'm almost 30, married with 2 young kids! No drinking here. Well, socially but not during this time. And this might sound dumb, but what do you mean "the good part" Is it a feeling mentally wise or a physical strength. And thanks for your input guys, makes this alot easier on a noob.
Also, stick with the same dosage or change for 6 weeks?
 
tinytony

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No SERM, no cycle. Do it cautiously the first time, experiment later.
Really? Hey you're doing a cycle? No SERM? Oops gotta have one. Doesn't matter if I'm wasting it because my PH isn't estrogenic or not. Only thing to worry about with one like Havoc would be conversion to E, and thgats not even an issue. Maybe have a SERM around in vase something goes wacko or for a pct. A person who isn't gyno prone doesn't even have estrogen rebound to an obvious degree on 20-30 of Epi each day.. Be original. Don't copy cat what you here. Use a SERM where necessary. Don't just tale it for granted. They aren't the answer
 
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P.S. I am all for being cautious and I still am cautious and I'm not a first timer
 
Montego1

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Start to really see the gains and hardness after four weeks. Keep it at 40 for two more weeks and you will thank me :) Epi is mild. I ran it at 60 for eight weeks and had no sides besides being dried out. I wouldn't recommend that for a novice tho.
 
SkinnyChase

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Start to really see the gains and hardness after four weeks. Keep it at 40 for two more weeks and you will thank me :) Epi is mild. I ran it at 60 for eight weeks and had no sides besides being dried out. I wouldn't recommend that for a novice tho.
Ok cool man thanks again for your advice. I'll run for 6 and keep it at 40 as I hit the last 3 weeks.
 
iparatroop

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Really? Hey you're doing a cycle? No SERM? Oops gotta have one. Doesn't matter if I'm wasting it because my PH isn't estrogenic or not. Only thing to worry about with one like Havoc would be conversion to E, and thgats not even an issue. Maybe have a SERM around in vase something goes wacko or for a pct. A person who isn't gyno prone doesn't even have estrogen rebound to an obvious degree on 20-30 of Epi each day.. Be original. Don't copy cat what you here. Use a SERM where necessary. Don't just tale it for granted. They aren't the answer
Although epi isn't supposed to convert, it's been known to happen, just like SD wasn't supposed to be hepatotoxic. If I were a copycat, I would have flamed him for even suggesting not using a SERM.
Am I on cycle right now? Are you asking me?
He's running a compound for the first time in his life. His system will be suppressed. Not using a SERM after 4 or even 6 weeks of a "mild compound" like epi is or Halodrol is like asking for rebound gyno. Why not do it the safe way and use the SERM if you have it on hand? And how would he know whether he's prone to gynecomastia if he's never used? Better to be proactive than reactive. Why wait til something "goes wacko" if you can prevent it?
 
SkinnyChase

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Although epi isn't supposed to convert, it's been known to happen, just like SD wasn't supposed to be hepatotoxic. If I were a copycat, I would have flamed him for even suggesting not using a SERM.
Am I on cycle right now? Are you asking me?
He's running a compound for the first time in his life. His system will be suppressed. Not using a SERM after 4 or even 6 weeks of a "mild compound" like epi is or Halodrol is like asking for rebound gyno. Why not do it the safe way and use the SERM if you have it on hand? And how would he know whether he's prone to gynecomastia if he's never used? Better to be proactive than reactive. Why wait til something "goes wacko" if you can prevent it?
I'm pretty sure I'm not prone to gyno. No one in my family has had that at all in any way shape or form. And like I originally said, I have Nolva on hand. Never said I didn't have a SERM. So that aspect is out the window. I said I have Reversitol V2 from iForce as an assist or to run alone as PCT since I've seen many people use is as a stand alone PCT and not have any issues. It was just a suggestion.
 
Montego1

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Use nolva.
 
iparatroop

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I'm pretty sure I'm not prone to gyno. No one in my family has had that at all in any way shape or form. And like I originally said, I have Nolva on hand. Never said I didn't have a SERM. So that aspect is out the window. I said I have Reversitol V2 from iForce as an assist or to run alone as PCT since I've seen many people use is as a stand alone PCT and not have any issues. It was just a suggestion.
No, I know you have the SERM that's why I said to use it. My quote was for the other dude who basically called me a dumdum for saying that you should use it. Although no one in your family has ever had gyno, you can induce it through the use of DS because of the way you are manipulating your hormones (in a nutshell). I'd rather you enjoy your first cycle and its results through PCT than have you trying to combat something that you could have possibly prevented. That's just my .02 though.
And I'm not a parrot. I have, in fact, used epi on more than one occasion, years ago.
 
SkinnyChase

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Wednesdays workout: 4x10 Arnold Press. 4x10 Bent Arm Side Laterals. 4x10 Front Dumbbell Raises. 4x10 Dumbbell Shrugs. All at 30lbs. Felt some amazing pumps in my upper back/shoulder blades last night. Loved this workout. Hoping I can do this with the 50s soon!
 
SkinnyChase

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Yesterday's workout was insane. Today I feel like I've made some progress. My posture looks different. Like when I stand up straight it looks like I have a more broad chest and shoulders. Like a normal person I would say lol. Definitely don't look like I'm skin and bones anymore. So far, the progress of about 1/2 week is making me pumped. Will work out 5 maybe 6 days a week and get plenty of rest on day off. The visual progress of getting bigger makes me want to hit the weights and train even harder.
 
SkinnyChase

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Here's a pic from today. Can definitely tell my traps and shoulders are filling in nicely. Still have a way to go but the motivation is off the chart.

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EatMoar

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It's always the skinny kids that cycle instead of just eating an excess . Sigh. At least you're doing it properly :|
 
6andaHalf

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I didn't think I needed a SERM either my first time... and when you get done your 6 weeks, you'll feel fine. Don't fool yourself though, especially if you bump it to 40 or higher for the last few weeks. You will definitely be shut down and will probably lose much of your gains if you go OTC like I tried after 6 weeks of Hdrol (4 wks being @ 100). You won't even start to "feel" anything until 18-25 days into the cycle. Just a weight gain of a few pounds at first. 3-4 weeks and you'll be like oh hell yea, everything is light haha.

Your natural body likes you at 155 lbs though and that's right back where you'll end up a lot of times without a SERM. Being that light in the first place, it is honestly far more beneficial to gain all natty until 20 lbs or so later. Cycling from a point that you could still easily gain more natty is really selling yourself short in the long run. You'll get to a nice weight in 6 weeks but... if you would have done it natty and then cycled.... now you're in a whole new realm and sitting at a beastly 5'10" 200+. Just my 2 cents. Your first cycle will always be the most potent

I know you said you'll take a SERM but so did I until I thought I was fine a week or two after my last dose (continuing to lose weight). I did the reactive Nolva dosing 3 weeks into PCT instead of the proactive Nolva dosing right off the bat (never again making that mistake) and it was a little disappointing to see 5-6 pounds go out the window that I could have probably saved.

Never the less, be safe and have fun man! You can still gain natty if you want afterwards.
 
SkinnyChase

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Yeah I'm gonna do natty after this. And I'm going to do everything in my power to keep my gains. This is off topic but my arms started out at 12" which is pathetic and now they're almost 13". I used gainer shakes for a month before I started so that might have something to do with the quick jump up. Thanks again for your input. And I agree, I could of waited and done things differently and I will from now on. Life's a constant learning cycle :)



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SkinnyChase

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Yeah I'm gonna do natty after this. And I'm going to do everything in my power to keep my gains. This is off topic but my arms started out at 12" which is pathetic and now they're almost 13". I used gainer shakes for a month before I started so that might have something to do with the quick jump up. Thanks again for your input. And I agree, I could of waited and done things differently and I will from now on. Life's a constant learning cycle :)



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6andaHalf

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You won't ever see an inch in a month without serious gear. Its probably a coincidence of measuring after a work out or something. A whole inch is much more than it seems. I've gained 2 inches in about 3+ years. Granted inches are WAY harder for a guy my height.
 
SkinnyChase

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You won't ever see an inch in a month without serious gear. Its probably a coincidence of measuring after a work out or something. A whole inch is much more than it seems. I've gained 2 inches in about 3+ years. Granted inches are WAY harder for a guy my height.
Yeah I worked arms 2 days ago. Been at work all day and haven't done anything that would require my arms to get pumped. So idk, who knows lol. Either way, I'm happy haha
 

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Following man.
Hows the weight going? any sides? Who is your Havoc by?
 
SkinnyChase

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Following man.
Hows the weight going? any sides? Who is your Havoc by?
It's made by RPN. And no sides so far. Again I'm only 3 days in. Weight is up 12lbs but mostly from weight gainers
 

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6 on one off. Going hard. Chest/Tri, Shoulders/Biceps, Legs/Abs. Not in that order. Still sorting things out.
I am currently 12 days into my Halo Extreme and I am getting fantastic results and this is my routine. Consider this for yourself maybe?Monday-Chest/Back 5-10repsTuesday-Shoulders/Deadlifts/Abs 5-10repswednesday-Bicep/Tricep 5-10repsThursday-Squats/Abs 15-3repsFriday-Chest/Back 15-30repsSaturday-Bicep/Tricep 20-40repsReally looking forward to hear how this goes for you as I ordered RPN Havoc on monday.
 
6andaHalf

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I am currently 12 days into my Halo Extreme and I am getting fantastic results and this is my routine. Consider this for yourself maybe?Monday-Chest/Back 5-10repsTuesday-Shoulders/Deadlifts/Abs 5-10repswednesday-Bicep/Tricep 5-10repsThursday-Squats/Abs 15-3repsFriday-Chest/Back 15-30repsSaturday-Bicep/Tricep 20-40repsReally looking forward to hear how this goes for you as I ordered RPN Havoc on monday.
You may feel good but it will take almost twice that long to start affecting any strength or body composition. You will gain a few pounds off the bat in the first week but thats all. Placebo and motivation are an amazing combo, though. Just wait until 25 days in, then you will really like.


It's made by RPN. And no sides so far. Again I'm only 3 days in. Weight is up 12lbs but mostly from weight gainers
I think he was asking in reference to since starting Havoc. Have you gained anything since your first dose? You'll prob put a few pounds on in the first week, just getting primed up though:dance: Week 3-6 tells the true tale.
 
SkinnyChase

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Did chest and triceps today. Tomorrow is much needed abs. Today is day 4 and the 3rd day at 30MG.



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SkinnyChase

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Question: After my workout today, my triceps are shaking/having spasms if I put any weight or flex them. I pushed myself to the limit using 40lb dbs for extensions. This a good thing? I drink plenty of water and milk every day. Maybe pushing them to the brink is good? Thanks.
 

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Question: After my workout today, my triceps are shaking/having spasms if I put any weight or flex them. I pushed myself to the limit using 40lb dbs for extensions. This a good thing? I drink plenty of water and milk every day. Maybe pushing them to the brink is good? Thanks.
Could be just more intensity then usual so your central nervous system's connection to the receptors in your triceps going a little haywire. As long as there is no serious pain keep pushing it to the limit! Remember the S.A.I.D principle (Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demand) Demand them to grow and get strong and thats what they will do!!
 

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You may feel good but it will take almost twice that long to start affecting any strength or body composition. You will gain a few pounds off the bat in the first week but thats all. Placebo and motivation are an amazing combo, though. Just wait until 25 days in, then you will really like.
If this is the case then wouldn't a 30day cycle be kind of a waste if your only going to have 5 really good days? I definitely think it has kicked in already though because before I started my max squat was 260 for 1 and this week I squated 275 for 1. Thats a big jump for a 2weeks mainly placebo?
 
Montego1

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If this is the case then wouldn't a 30day cycle be kind of a waste if your only going to have 5 really good days? I definitely think it has kicked in already though because before I started my max squat was 260 for 1 and this week I squated 275 for 1. Thats a big jump for a 2weeks mainly placebo?
That's why I suggested six weeks. Probably placebo effect on strength. Not gonna notice much till maybe week two.
 
SkinnyChase

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Yeah I'm pushing the limit. That's why I'm seeing my muscles grow now more than ever. If week 3-6 is gonna be better, I can't wait!!! Super stoked. Went to *** today and got Taurine & Liver Support to go along with my cycle assist & creatine. Also grabbed some fish oil and a good multi. Thanks for the help guys! Also everyone that sees me is telling me I already look bigger. That's a HUGE boost to keep going!
 

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If this is the case then wouldn't a 30day cycle be kind of a waste if your only going to have 5 really good days? I definitely think it has kicked in already though because before I started my max squat was 260 for 1 and this week I squated 275 for 1. Thats a big jump for a 2weeks mainly placebo?
Yes, a 30 day cycle of Epi or Halo is a waste.
 

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Yeah I'm pushing the limit. That's why I'm seeing my muscles grow now more than ever. If week 3-6 is gonna be better, I can't wait!!! Super stoked. Went to *** today and got Taurine & Liver Support to go along with my cycle assist & creatine. Also grabbed some fish oil and a good multi. Thanks for the help guys! Also everyone that sees me is telling me I already look bigger. That's a HUGE boost to keep going!
Surprised no one has asked this, or maybe I missed it, but how's your eating? Do you know what you're getting in protein and calories? Where are your macros coming from?

Does anyone else think he should throttle back on the training frequency? Six days a week, hitting everything twice I imagine, is an awful tall order for a guy who is clearly a very hard gainer, even with chemical help. I would suggest not doing more than four days a week, and really think a Monday/Wednesday/Friday split would be best.

Oh yeah, don't worry about the quivering triceps. That just means you hit em good.
 
SkinnyChase

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Surprised no one has asked this, or maybe I missed it, but how's your eating? Do you know what you're getting in protein and calories? Where are your macros coming from?

Does anyone else think he should throttle back on the training frequency? Six days a week, hitting everything twice I imagine, is an awful tall order for a guy who is clearly a very hard gainer, even with chemical help. I would suggest not doing more than four days a week, and really think a Monday/Wednesday/Friday split would be best.

Oh yeah, don't worry about the quivering triceps. That just means you hit em good.
Since I'm bulking, I'm eating anything I want. Breakfast usually consists of scrambled eggs, toast and sometimes oatmeal with a shake. And lunch is left overs from the night before. Usually high calorie high carb foods. And I'm taking in around 3000+ calories. And yeah I'm thinking about a 4 days a week thing too. And yeah the shaking turns into more muscle haha. My arms feel better today, just sore like normal.
 
6andaHalf

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Yeah I'm pushing the limit. That's why I'm seeing my muscles grow now more than ever. If week 3-6 is gonna be better, I can't wait!!! Super stoked. Went to *** today and got Taurine & Liver Support to go along with my cycle assist & creatine. Also grabbed some fish oil and a good multi. Thanks for the help guys! Also everyone that sees me is telling me I already look bigger. That's a HUGE boost to keep going!
It's really good that you seem motivated but I honestly need to give you some tough love in saying that I think you probably should have done a lot more research and got a little bit more of a routine diet and training under your belt before you started cycling synthetics. Based on your pictures, you could put loads of muscle on without steroids with a good diet and strong program. You have to understand the people telling you that you look bigger has nothing to do with what you're taking. That's all natural because you're actually working hard. These Pro hormones take weeks to build up in your system and start taking effect.

If I were you I would just start reading the best logs you can find from the most experienced people on this forum. You need to make sure that you set out a good diet that is not just winging it and eating as much as you can and also get a set routine in the gym that does not consist of 6 days on and 1 off. 3-4 days is far better. If you want to hit group twice per week then fine but you can do that in 4 days. Your body needs rest for growth more than it needs to the gym for growth. I'm not coming down on you but I read through some of these posts and it kind of worries me. Get a diet plan and 3-4 day routine worked out and lets hear it. Its not as easy as take a pill, lift hard as many days a week as possible and eat as much as possible. Sorry for the toughness but at 155 with what seems to be very little lifting knowledge, this seemed needed. You're taking steroids, man.
 
OnionKnight

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^^^ ive been holding that in since he started
 

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