Ostarine & MK-677 RECOMP Log (SARMS)

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    Ostarine & MK-677 RECOMP Log (SARMS)


    ShockTroop's Ostarine & MK-677 6 Week RECOMP Log.

    Body Stats:
    Age: 21
    Height: 6'3.5"
    Weight: 238 (I haven't weighed in for a few weeks. I will tomorrow at the gym, and update with exact information.)
    Current B/F: 14%

    Fitness History:
    6 Yrs. Football
    Continued Lifting
    Military Service
    NASM Personal Trainer
    Going to school for Nutrition Science
    Overall: 7 Years of lifting.

    Dosing:
    Ostarine: 25MG every morning before first meal of the day.
    MK-677: 25MG every night, 1 hour before bed.

    25/25/25/25/25/25
    25/25/25/25/25/25

    Research:

    Ostarine:

    Activity of MK-2866:

    MK-2866 is an androgen receptor modulator (SARM) with anabolic activity. Lack of PSA increases further corroborated selective anabolic effects of Ostarine (MK-2866). Ostarine (MK-2866) also resulted in a dose-dependent decrease in LDL and HDL cholesterol levels, with the average LDL/HDL ratio remaining in the low risk category.

    SARMs create selective anabolic activity at certain androgen receptors and not others, hence their name. SARMs such as MK-2688 do not have androgenic activity in non-skeletal tissues.



    MK-677:

    Activity of MK-677:

    MK-677 is a product which acts as a potent, orally active GH secretagogue, mimicking the GH stimulating action of the endogenous hormone ghrelin.

    Administration of MK-677 25 mg resulted in a 60.1% increase in serum IGF-1 levels at 6 weeks and a 72.9% increase at 12 months. In mixed-effects models that included treatment, time (month), randomization strata (baseline MMSE score ≤20 vs >20), and interaction of treatment-by-time, there were no significant differences between the treatment groups on the CIBIC-plus or the mean change from baseline scores on the ADAS-Cog, ADCS-ADL, or CDR-sob scores over 12 months.



    I'm logging this because I've found it hard myself to find many logs of both SARMS used in a stack. I've seen multiple SARMs stacked, and I HAVE seen a few logs of these two, but none like this. I'm training for performance before ANYTHING.

    Goals:
    Performance: 18 Min. 3 Mile.
    Strength: 305 Bench Press
    Composition: <10% BF


    I'm coming off of a 4 month, all out, all natural bulk. I've went from 198, to my current weight. I've done a lot of research on SARMS, and I feel like it's the SAFEST, and SMARTEST route for me to take at my age. This CAN and WILL be very helpful to others my age who feel the urge to dip into AAS, DS, PH, or any kind of KNOWN harmful substance. I'm NOT recommending SARMS to anyone else my age (yet), and I'm completely unbiased towards them. The research is solid, and so is everyone else's results.
    Here's mine. Take it or leave it.


    I ordered them on Tuesday, I'm expecting them at my door tomorrow, and I'm beginning upon ar*****. Tomorrow is ARMS/DELTS. Should be fun. I'm posting my MACROS/SPLIT/ADDITIONAL SUPPS in the following thread. I WILL post some bloodwork AFTER the cycle to see for myself if there is any suppression, and if the proposed research is true. I've never messed with anything that would screw me up since I last had my levels looked at. (which was recent) so I know that I'm G2G at the moment.

    Lets. Do. This.

    S/O to Tyga.

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    Supps on Board:
    Ostarine
    MK-677
    G n C WheyBolic 60 Whey Isolate
    G n C Casein
    Blox Silk Amino Acids
    OxyElite Pro (Old Formula)
    EXT GO (Pre-Workout)
    MRI Red Repair
    G n C Strength Vitapak (Fenugreek, Tribulus, Creatine HCL, Multivitamin)
    G n C CLA
    G n C Tripple Strength Fish Oil

    Example of Daily Meal Structure:

    0700
    Awaken the monster.

    0730
    1 OxyElite
    2 CLA
    1 Fish Oil
    1 Serving Aminos (Sipping .5 before, and .5 during cardio)
    1-3 mile run.

    0830
    1 Scoop Whey Iso
    *** Strength Vitapak
    25 MG Ostarine

    0900
    1 Cup Oats
    8 Egg Whites
    2 Servings Chopped Turkey Ham
    Water

    1100
    .5 Cup Rice
    93/7 Grilled Beef Patty

    1300
    1 Scoop Aminos
    1 Can Tuna
    2 Boiled Eggs

    1500
    2 Slices Wheat Bread
    Grilled Chicken (Thin Sliced)
    Mustard
    ^> Sandwhich.

    1600
    Apple

    1700
    1.5-2 Scoops EXT GO
    2 CLA

    1800
    Gym
    1 Scoop Aminos

    2000
    1 Scoop Whey Iso
    1 Scoop Casien

    2100
    25 MG MK-677 (Before 1st bite)
    MRI Repair
    Sweet Potato
    Bison Steak
    Green Beans

    2200
    1 Scoop Casein
    BED.




    Training Split

    Monday: (Morning Cardio) ARMS/AUX DELTS
    Tuesday: (Morning Cardio) LEGS/PRESSES
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: CHEST
    Friday: (Morning Cardio) BACK(LATS/DEADS)/ABS
    Saturday: (Morning Cardio) OFF
    Sunday: OFF

    ___

    Since I'm starting tomorrow when the mail runs, I'm not going to do Cardio. Cardio will begin Tuesday morning with a 1.5 miler. I'm going to eat until I find a tiny bit under maintenance. I've read MANY logs of guys running a recomp, eating WAY sloppier than me, and gaining weight/dropping BF. I'm lifting with a good friend, who's training for a natural show. Dudes a monster.
    Ready to see how this goes.

    Edit: I have the hookup at G n C. No, I'm not a huge fan. LOL.
    Last edited by ShockTroop; 12-17-2012 at 04:41 AM. Reason: G N C
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    Update:


    Took all my supps this morning, and have kept the cals CLEAN son.
    First Dose of Osta:
    Tastes as horrible as I heard. Haha. Like Licorice and Motor Oil. Netherteless, threw down 25MG and CAN'T wait to hit the gym tonight. Going late.. Arms tonight.

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    In this mother bish.

    Posting bloods huh?! Nice. You got before cycle baseline bloods as well?

    Ive used mk 677 numerous times, and the sleep is phenominal! I get bloated from the 677, keep an eye on it. And best of luck!
    Myokem Athlete
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga
    In this mother bish.

    Posting bloods huh?! Nice. You got before cycle baseline bloods as well?

    Ive used mk 677 numerous times, and the sleep is phenominal! I get bloated from the 677, keep an eye on it. And best of luck!
    Man, I'm in the Corps. I requested bloodwork and when it came back they said everything looked great. I just went in with the "I think my test is low" excuse and it came back quote: "perfectly normal for my age." I asked if I can have a copy. But it's in my medical record, and I don't care to look if its normal.

    Post cycle I'm going through LabCorps and I'll post the entire panel.

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    UPDATE:


    Sorry this update isn't super in depth. Yesterday morning I started getting pretty backed up, and chest congested. But I thought whatever. I'm starting TODAY. Bad idea. By the time I got ready to hit the gym I felt like I had full on pneumonia. I know it wasn't the Osta though.

    Either way, I figured sweating some might help.
    SO I KILT SOME ARMS/DELTS.

    (WeightxReps)
    Seated Curls:
    30x20
    35x12
    40x10
    45x8
    SS W/
    Laying Skull Crushers:
    60x15
    70x12
    80x10
    90x6 > Normally don't attempt this because of how low I normally get. 6 made me feel good..

    Cable Curl (EZ Attatchment):
    60x16
    70x10
    80x10
    95x8
    SS W/
    Tricep Extensions (Rope Attachment):
    110x10
    120x10
    135x8
    135x8 >Pump got STUPID sick around this point

    Front Raises (DB):
    15, 20, 25, 30, 35
    40, 30, 25 , 15
    (Rack run. Up, then back down)

    Preacher Curls (Machine):
    70x10
    80x8
    80x8
    85x5

    Overhead Tricep Extension (Rope Attachment):
    90x15
    100x12
    120x6

    Called it a day after that.
    I went home and felt about as sick as I've ever felt. I ate some beef soup, and drank a 50G Whey RTD from G N C, hit the night time supps, and passed out!

    MK 677:
    I MIGHT rethink recomping while running this. After taking it, I ate about 45 min later.. There's NO WAY to get full on it. I was so hungry. I woke up an hour after going to bed, STILL hungry. I slept great after passing back out.

    Ostarine:
    Okay, it's early, I know. But instead of my normal 2 scoops of pre, I took 1 because I didn't want it to keep me awake. My pump and focus was way better than 2 normally gets me. I credit this to the Osta. My pumps were so full, they hurt about 1/2 way through.

    Today:
    Just took my morning supps. I feel a little better.. Still going to try to sleep before work.
    I'll be in later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShockTroop View Post
    UPDATE:

    Sorry this update isn't super in depth. Yesterday morning I started getting pretty backed up, and chest congested. But I thought whatever. I'm starting TODAY. Bad idea. By the time I got ready to hit the gym I felt like I had full on pneumonia. I know it wasn't the Osta though.

    Either way, I figured sweating some might help.
    SO I KILT SOME ARMS/DELTS.

    (WeightxReps)
    Seated Curls:
    30x20
    35x12
    40x10
    45x8
    SS W/
    Laying Skull Crushers:
    60x15
    70x12
    80x10
    90x6 > Normally don't attempt this because of how low I normally get. 6 made me feel good..

    Cable Curl (EZ Attatchment):
    60x16
    70x10
    80x10
    95x8
    SS W/
    Tricep Extensions (Rope Attachment):
    110x10
    120x10
    135x8
    135x8 >Pump got STUPID sick around this point

    Front Raises (DB):
    15, 20, 25, 30, 35
    40, 30, 25 , 15
    (Rack run. Up, then back down)

    Preacher Curls (Machine):
    70x10
    80x8
    80x8
    85x5

    Overhead Tricep Extension (Rope Attachment):
    90x15
    100x12
    120x6

    Called it a day after that.
    I went home and felt about as sick as I've ever felt. I ate some beef soup, and drank a 50G Whey RTD from G N C, hit the night time supps, and passed out!

    MK 677:
    I MIGHT rethink recomping while running this. After taking it, I ate about 45 min later.. There's NO WAY to get full on it. I was so hungry. I woke up an hour after going to bed, STILL hungry. I slept great after passing back out.

    Ostarine:
    Okay, it's early, I know. But instead of my normal 2 scoops of pre, I took 1 because I didn't want it to keep me awake. My pump and focus was way better than 2 normally gets me. I credit this to the Osta. My pumps were so full, they hurt about 1/2 way through.

    Today:
    Just took my morning supps. I feel a little better.. Still going to try to sleep before work.
    I'll be in later.

    Good things may come to those who wait. But only those left, by those who hustle. -Abraham Lincoln
    Nice update. The appetite increase from 677 is serious isnt it lol I like the extremely deep REM sleep i get from it. Im assuming you went through "GTG" ? Anywho, keep the updates coming and at the end of week one begining of week two report back on the pumps/fullness... i think youll be impressed.
    Myokem Athlete
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    Is there any difference between the ostarine by research sites, and the ones like ostanish?

    Thinking of getting some after I come off pct
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    Quote Originally Posted by edje007
    Is there any difference between the ostarine by research sites, and the ones like ostanish?

    Thinking of getting some after I come off pct
    Ostanish is a pill form. I've heard a lot of things about "avoiding the powder" and what not. But I've seen the same things with SERMS. Some love the pills..
    I went with GTG. Mine is Liquid and I haven't found any bad raps on the company. I guess a pill would cover the horrible taste, but might dilute absorption which isn't worth it to me.

    Mine is 15 ML bottles, 50 MG/ML. So I'm doing .5ML of both daily.

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    So, turns out I caught the flu. I haven't been awake for more than 4 hours the whole past few days. Today feels WAY better though. May hit it again. Will post an update when I do. For sure.

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    Sorry this thread has been asleep. I got the Flu super bad. 104 degree fever, coughing up a lung. On top of that, I received the news the other morning that we'd lost my best friend. He was my hero, and it was a huge loss for the whole world of bodybuilding. His name is Jeremy Sanders, and he was the 2012 NPC Teen Lightweight Champion. You can search him. The man was a monster.

    Today was my first day coming off of the flu. I can report that while sick, my eating went out the window, and I barely moved. I took the SARMS through it though, and I think it helped retain some muscle that could've went down the drain.

    On another note, I KILLED chest/Triceps tonight.


    Duration: 45 Min

    Flat Barbell Bench
    135x15
    185x10
    225x5
    Dropset

    Incline Smith Bench
    155x10
    185x8
    205x8
    215x5

    Superset W/
    Front Raises
    20x15
    30x12
    35x8
    35x8

    Hammer Loaded Chest Press
    Machine+180x20
    M+270x10
    M+270x8
    M+280x5

    Superset W/

    Cable Flyes
    30x15
    30x15
    40x10
    40x10

    Tricep Pulldown (Rope)
    80x20
    110x10
    130x10
    Drop set starting @ 140

    Lying Skulls
    70x10
    80x8
    90x6
    90x5

    Dips
    12
    10
    10
    8

    KILLED IT. Intensity was THROUGH the roof. The pump was nasty and I was sweating like a freak. Today was Jeremy's funeral so I was motivated anyway, but I will say this is the first workout to FEEL the SARMS, and it was MONEY. I felt like a monster. No crazy PRs, but I did a LOT in the time I was there. All of this went down in about 45 minutes.

    I also weighed in and calibrated my Bf to give you an exact starting point. Coming off my bulk, I'm:

    139.8 Lbs
    15.7% BF

    Lets see that Bf DROP son.
    This is dedicated my brother. I WILL kill it.

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    Slept GREAT last night. Woke up, took my supps, did a light cardio, then killed a money breakfast.
    Here's some before pics. And what was on the menu this morning.
    2 cans tuna
    2 cups Chipotle Pasta
    1 scoop Bcaas

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    Didn't want to update this until I had a BOMB report.
    I'm posting my last few workouts today in a bit, but I JUST DEMOLISHED legs, set PRs, have been doing heavy cardio AND eating at a deficit, stacking Oxyelite and CLA with the SARMS, caught the flu..
    AND IM STILL AT 242. (+3) Bf has gone down..

    Maybe it's because I've never done ANYTHING else..
    But these SARMS are money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShockTroop View Post
    Didn't want to update this until I had a BOMB report.
    I'm posting my last few workouts today in a bit, but I JUST DEMOLISHED legs, set PRs, have been doing heavy cardio AND eating at a deficit, stacking Oxyelite and CLA with the SARMS, caught the flu..
    AND IM STILL AT 242. (+3) Bf has gone down..

    Maybe it's because I've never done ANYTHING else..
    But these SARMS are money.
    Notice anything from the 677?
    Myokem Athlete
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga

    Notice anything from the 677?
    Yeah. I was going to get more into detail when I get to my laptop to post the workouts, but here's what feeling:

    Morning:
    25 MG Osta
    1 OEP
    2 CLA
    1 Fish 1000MG

    The Ostarine doesn't taste near as bad as it did to begin with. I think mainly due to how horrible the 677 tastes. I can feel it by noon, because it leaves me with a full look and a pump all day long. I've had guys ask what NO im taking. Seriously. My workouts have been much more intense and I've broken a major plateau. I'm way warmer and I sweat more. I also feel like I recover cardio wise faster in between sets.

    The MK is insanely noticeable. I seen in your log were you woke up in the middle of the night starving? The hunger is INSANE. I love the appetite, but its not unbearable for me as it is with some guys recomping. It's perfect. I sleep really deep, and can wake up after six and feel like I slept ten. It's $$$.
    I also have warm pulses shoot through my body about an hour after I take it, and sometimes throughout the day. They're the strongest at night. I also get tingly sensations afterwards. I looked it up an others who took the MK feel it to. And related it to GH pulsations. It's really sick. I love that trash. I literally feel like I can feel the GH pulsing in my body.

    Overall, I'm a fan of both.
    I'm thinking about introducing Epistane for the last 4 weeks. I'm going to push the Osta/MK to 8 weeks and maybe run EPI the last 4. I have a BUDDY to get me some Aromasin and Nolva for PCT.
    Any thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShockTroop View Post

    Yeah. I was going to get more into detail when I get to my laptop to post the workouts, but here's what feeling:

    Morning:
    25 MG Osta
    1 OEP
    2 CLA
    1 Fish 1000MG

    The Ostarine doesn't taste near as bad as it did to begin with. I think mainly due to how horrible the 677 tastes. I can feel it by noon, because it leaves me with a full look and a pump all day long. I've had guys ask what NO im taking. Seriously. My workouts have been much more intense and I've broken a major plateau. I'm way warmer and I sweat more. I also feel like I recover cardio wise faster in between sets.

    The MK is insanely noticeable. I seen in your log were you woke up in the middle of the night starving? The hunger is INSANE. I love the appetite, but its not unbearable for me as it is with some guys recomping. It's perfect. I sleep really deep, and can wake up after six and feel like I slept ten. It's $$$.
    I also have warm pulses shoot through my body about an hour after I take it, and sometimes throughout the day. They're the strongest at night. I also get tingly sensations afterwards. I looked it up an others who took the MK feel it to. And related it to GH pulsations. It's really sick. I love that trash. I literally feel like I can feel the GH pulsing in my body.

    Overall, I'm a fan of both.
    I'm thinking about introducing Epistane for the last 4 weeks. I'm going to push the Osta/MK to 8 weeks and maybe run EPI the last 4. I have a BUDDY to get me some Aromasin and Nolva for PCT.
    Any thoughts?
    All of that sounds on point, ive had that full look since i started osta...two months ago The epistane at the tail end should harden you up even more, and the pct looks good. What do you take your 677 with at night? Do you take it on an "empty" stomach? I can notice the bloat from the 677 already, its a slight film of water..
    Myokem Athlete
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    I drink a Casein shake and I also take MRI RED REPAIR. It's a Recovery/Sleep Aid supp. But stomach is empty before I dose it.
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    DESTROYED a Bicep/Back workout last night. Set a PR on Lat Pulldowns, getting 220 for 6 on my last set!
    I'm feeling a little like my libido isn't effected as much as it was at first??

    Also, I hit the gym LATE last night, so I tried the MK677 With my Preworkout...
    MONEY! By the time I finished lifting, I was drenched and STARVING. I went to Wingstop with my girl and demolished 25 wings and like 6 large waters. It was ridiculous. Still had room for my casein shake.
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    220 for 6 on lat pulls? Beastly bro. Keeps killin it
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    Thinking about transitioning into a PH cycle, then back to finish my sarms in PCT..
    I'm getting leaner and keeping my weight. Lifts are going up. I'm definitely a believer in this stuff.
    Just hit chest/tris/abs.

    Incline: 4x15, 12, 10, Drop
    Flat Plate Loaded: 4x12, 10, 10, 6
    Dips(Superset): 3x12, 10, 10
    Ab Hammer Strength(SS): 3x20, 20, 20
    Cable Flyes LowtoHigh(SS2): 3x15, 12, 10
    Tricep PushDown (Rope)(SS2): 3x12, 10, Drop

    Sick pump!! Very fast paced, and weights were HIGH son. Will update with them later.

    Here's a post workout pic.
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    I'm in for this one bro. Just picked up some ostanish for pct. Gonna run One wk prior to starting pct for saturation to kick in, then run it for the duration of pct. Lose the dog tags bro, you look like a boot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist
    I'm in for this one bro. Just picked up some ostanish for pct. Gonna run One wk prior to starting pct for saturation to kick in, then run it for the duration of pct. Lose the dog tags bro, you look like a boot!
    Baha! I had inspection today son. Don't hate.
    In a week I'm going on a SuperDrol/EPI bridge and bringing the Osta/MK back in during PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShockTroop View Post

    Baha! I had inspection today son. Don't hate.
    In a week I'm going on a SuperDrol/EPI bridge and bringing the Osta/MK back in during PCT.
    Superdrol/epi bridge? Dang bro you cray. Lol get hyoooge
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga

    Superdrol/epi bridge? Dang bro you cray. Lol get hyoooge
    Funny story son.
    That's what we do.
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    6 yrs in the Corps. E-5. Just sayin...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShockTroop View Post

    Baha! I had inspection today son. Don't hate.
    In a week I'm going on a SuperDrol/EPI bridge and bringing the Osta/MK back in during PCT.
    6 yrs son. Sgt in the Mother effin Marine Corps. 0311 you pogass MF. Nonetheless hit that shyt hard bro. I wanna see how that ish hits!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist

    6 yrs son. Sgt in the Mother effin Marine Corps. 0311 you pogass MF. Nonetheless hit that shyt hard bro. I wanna see how that ish hits!
    3 years until I qualified for MECEP. (Doing that bid now)
    0341.
    1/3 C Co.

    Easy with the pog slanging sgt!! I'm a cpl making your pay right now.
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    Yesterday was an off day. Had to work a long shift and my body was pretty run down, so I just kicked it with my girl. I'm planning my next cycle to bridge these SARMS into now. It shall be NASTY.

    Until then, this log continues, but in the Future..

    Either a SuperDrol, Epistane, and M14ADD Bridge with SARMs back in, in the PCT.
    or if I can get it..
    Test E with SDrol kicker and Epistane finisher.

    Either way, it's about to get Anabolic in this thang.

    Today is:
    Shoulders/Traps/ForeArms/Calves

    I hit the smaller muscles with Shoulders/Traps.
    Will update later!

    Pz
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShockTroop View Post

    3 years until I qualified for MECEP. (Doing that bid now)
    0341.
    1/3 C Co.

    Easy with the pog slanging sgt!! I'm a cpl making your pay right now.
    Lol. Bang up job Devil! 4 yrs active, now 2+ in the Reserves. It ain't the same but its still fun, even got an Eastern Europe deployment out of the Reserves a year ago. Sounds like the Corps is getting rid of my Battalion in the next few months though and turning my unit into an MP or truck company so I'll be a pog soon myself!

    Anyway, so you're holding off the peps till PCT now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Anyway, so you're holding off the peps till PCT now?
    Thats what it looks like..
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist

    Lol. Bang up job Devil! 4 yrs active, now 2+ in the Reserves. It ain't the same but its still fun, even got an Eastern Europe deployment out of the Reserves a year ago. Sounds like the Corps is getting rid of my Battalion in the next few months though and turning my unit into an MP or truck company so I'll be a pog soon myself!

    Anyway, so you're holding off the peps till PCT now?
    'Preciate it Sgt. Field MPs do a hellofa job too man. I'm on track to be an 0203. Infantry Intel Platoon Commander. So I'll be working with Sniper Platoons/Recon. I'm amped. Mortars were never really my style.

    Right now, I'm still riding the SARMS.
    Update:

    Biceps and Back last night. Threw in some Forearms just to get the NASTIEST arm pump possible.
    The "Mind/Muscle" connection on this stuff is amazing. I've learned that the best times to go to the gym are 1-2 hours after dosing Ostarine, or when I take MK677 with my Preworkout.
    Osta gives an INSANE mind/muscle connection. I was doing seated rows and I swear I could feel every contraction of my Rhomboids from squeezing my last at the peak of the movement.
    Pump was insane. Strength is up.
    My weight right now hasn't changed, but know what has?
    My BF has went from 15% to 13%. No weight change. Still 240. That's eating less and taking fat burners. I like this for ANYONE wanting a recomp.

    Around next Friday, my SARMS ride turns into a bridge into my first ride with Test Prop..
    The SARMS are coming back into PCT FOR SURE.

    I'm looking at:
    1-10 Test Prop 150Mg EOD
    1-3 SuperDrol 10/10/20
    6-10 Epistane 40/40/40/40
    5-10 500iu HCG 2x/Week
    2-12 Exemestane .6 E2D

    10-14 Torem 120/90/60/60
    10-14 DAA 3.12G
    10-14 ZMA/Trib/LongJack
    10-14 OSTARINE 15MG
    10-14 Mk677 25MG

    Any thoughts^
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    Trib and long jack are worthless IMO. The osta might suppress a little in pct ad raise E levels so an AI is worth thinking about in pct. Congrats on being MECEPed. That's going to be an awesome career, and don't leave unless you really want to because its hard as hell to get back in. I've been working for months on trying to get an SOI instructor billet
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist
    Trib and long jack are worthless IMO. The osta might suppress a little in pct ad raise E levels so an AI is worth thinking about in pct. Congrats on being MECEPed. That's going to be an awesome career, and don't leave unless you really want to because its hard as hell to get back in. I've been working for months on trying to get an SOI instructor billet
    SOI instructor sounds like it just may be the worst BBillet ever. Lol. Well, recognition wise. Just because its Drill Instructor hours, with less fame and recognition. But any SOI hat that I've seen HATED DIs. Either way, it has to be the MOST REWARDING BBillet. Just don't punch a boot. Haha.
    Well I think running Osta at 10 won't suppress. I don't see any suppression at 25 until 3 weeks in. So not too worried about it. I may pull it until week 3 of PcT. May just run MK.

    The Trib is for libido man. And the LJ DOES help with bringing boys back. If you get 200:1 standardization it causes tissue swelling. May be only while you take it, but I experienced it first hand. Any less than 200:1 is bunk. I see 40:1 everywhere. Same with Trib 40% saponins. Finding 90% saponins is so hard. But it's a world of difference.
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    As a grunt, I think SOI instructor is awesome. Better than when I did marksmanship or mcmap instructor. Check out bulbine for getting the boys back in shape. I really just don't believe any research on trib or long jack. My .02 cents
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    As a grunt, I think SOI instructor is awesome. Better than when I did marksmanship or mcmap instructor. Check out bulbine for getting the boys back in shape. I really just don't believe any research on trib or long jack. My .02 cents
    But you believe research on a relatively new herb (to the supplement industry at least)? Bulbine is weight correspondent.. so its hard to get write.

    Shock stick with your serm+ai+tbooster.

    Torem
    Aromasin
    And whatever tbooster you respond to well
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post

    But you believe research on a relatively new herb (to the supplement industry at least)? Bulbine is weight correspondent.. so its hard to get write.

    Shock stick with your serm+ai+tbooster.

    Torem
    Aromasin
    And whatever tbooster you respond to well
    No. First off I said IMO, not fact. I also believe in what works and doesn't work based on personal experience and what my brothers in iron recommend. When we look at studies on humans not rats, bulbine is the only one of these three ingredients that raise test levels significantly. Tribulus had zero effect on humans. Long jack raised strength 7% and the placebo group was raised 3%, certainly not significant. As for bulbine, test levels in humans were raised roughly 300%, highly significant.

    There is a huge difference between increased libido due to herbal supplementation and actual increases in testosterone. One is not necessarily causative of the other, mere correlation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post

    No. First off I said IMO, not fact. I also believe in what works and doesn't work based on personal experience and what my brothers in iron recommend. When we look at studies on humans not rats, bulbine is the only one of these three ingredients that raise test levels significantly. Tribulus had zero effect on humans. Long jack raised strength 7% and the placebo group was raised 3%, certainly not significant. As for bulbine, test levels in humans were raised roughly 300%, highly significant.
    Did you just compare the strength gained from long jack to the test increase of bulbine?

    Some of the animal studies have indicated that increases in serum testosterone levels with Eurycoma supplementation can range from 300% to nearly 500%! Plus, the extract, added in vitro to human testicular tissue, causes an increase of over 400% in testosterone production. Apparently Eurycoma increases the activity of steroidogenic (testosterone-producing) enzymes, as well as increasing cyclic AMP, which also has a favorable effect on steroid synthesis (among other benefits, including fat loss).

    Bibliography Ang HH, Cheang HS, Yusof AP. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on the initiation of sexual performance of inexperienced castrated male rats. Exp Anim. 2000 Jan;49(1):35-8.Ang HH, Cheang HS. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40.

    Ang HH, Cheang HS. Studies on the anxiolytic activity of Eurycoma longifolia Jack roots in mice. Jpn J Pharmacol. 1999 Apr;79(4):497-500.

    Ang HH, Lee KL. Kiyoshi M. Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice. J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(3):301-8.

    Ang HH, Lee KL. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on libido in middle-aged male rats. J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2002;13(3):249-54

    Ang HH, Lee KL. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on orientation activities in middle-aged male rats. Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 2002 Dec;16(6):479-83.

    Bedir E, et al. Eurycomaoside: a new quassinoid-type glycoside from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia. Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 2003 Nov;51(11):1301-3.

    Hamzah, SH, Yusof, A. The Anabolic Effects of LJ100. Department of Exercise Physiology, Sports Centre, University of Malaya, Kuala Lumpur. Kuo PC, et al. Cytotoxic and antimalarial beta-carboline alkaloids from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia. J Nat Prod. 2003 Oct;66(10):1324-7.

    Kuo PC, Damu AG, Lee KH, Wu TS. Cytotoxic and antimalarial constituents from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia. Bioorg Med Chem. 2004 Feb 1;12(3):537-44.

    Jiwajinda S, et al. In vitro anti-tumor promoting and anti-parasitic activities of the quassinoids from Eurycoma longifolia, a medicinal plant in Southeast Asia. J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Sep;82(1):55-8.

    Satayavivad J, et al. Toxicological and antimalarial activity of eurycomalactone and Eurycoma longifolia Jack extracts in mice. Thai J Phytopharmacy. 1998 Dec; 5(2):14-27.

    M.I.M Tambi, S. Othman, and J.M. Saad "Water-soluble extract of LJ100(TM) as a potential natural energizer for healthy aging men" Specialist Reproductive Research Center, National Population & Family Development Board,Ministry of Women and Family Development, Malaysia. Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, University of Malaya, Malaysia.

    Courtesy of Source-1-Global product literature for LJ-100(TM)

    My fault shock dont mean to clog your thread up.

    Palm, bulbine has the potential to increase test up to 300% again, if you get the correct mg for YOUR weight. If you go over, E raises and test drops. I could pull literature on trib to if you want. Every shrub/herb is extract dependent.. throwing Longjack and trib into a "non effective and or garbage" category is silly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post

    Did you just compare the strength gained from long jack to the test increase of bulbine?

    Some of the animal studies have indicated that increases in serum testosterone levels with Eurycoma supplementation can range from 300% to nearly 500%! Plus, the extract, added in vitro to human testicular tissue, causes an increase of over 400% in testosterone production. Apparently Eurycoma increases the activity of steroidogenic (testosterone-producing) enzymes, as well as increasing cyclic AMP, which also has a favorable effect on steroid synthesis (among other benefits, including fat loss).

    Bibliography Ang HH, Cheang HS, Yusof AP. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on the initiation of sexual performance of inexperienced castrated male rats. Exp Anim. 2000 Jan;49(1):35-8.Ang HH, Cheang HS. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40.

    Ang HH, Cheang HS. Studies on the anxiolytic activity of Eurycoma longifolia Jack roots in mice. Jpn J Pharmacol. 1999 Apr;79(4):497-500.

    Ang HH, Lee KL. Kiyoshi M. Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice. J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(3):301-8.

    Ang HH, Lee KL. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on libido in middle-aged male rats. J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2002;13(3):249-54

    Ang HH, Lee KL. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on orientation activities in middle-aged male rats. Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 2002 Dec;16(6):479-83.

    Bedir E, et al. Eurycomaoside: a new quassinoid-type glycoside from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia. Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 2003 Nov;51(11):1301-3.

    Hamzah, SH, Yusof, A. The Anabolic Effects of LJ100. Department of Exercise Physiology, Sports Centre, University of Malaya, Kuala Lumpur. Kuo PC, et al. Cytotoxic and antimalarial beta-carboline alkaloids from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia. J Nat Prod. 2003 Oct;66(10):1324-7.

    Kuo PC, Damu AG, Lee KH, Wu TS. Cytotoxic and antimalarial constituents from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia. Bioorg Med Chem. 2004 Feb 1;12(3):537-44.

    Jiwajinda S, et al. In vitro anti-tumor promoting and anti-parasitic activities of the quassinoids from Eurycoma longifolia, a medicinal plant in Southeast Asia. J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Sep;82(1):55-8.

    Satayavivad J, et al. Toxicological and antimalarial activity of eurycomalactone and Eurycoma longifolia Jack extracts in mice. Thai J Phytopharmacy. 1998 Dec; 5(2):14-27.

    M.I.M Tambi, S. Othman, and J.M. Saad "Water-soluble extract of LJ100(TM) as a potential natural energizer for healthy aging men" Specialist Reproductive Research Center, National Population & Family Development Board,Ministry of Women and Family Development, Malaysia. Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, University of Malaya, Malaysia.

    Courtesy of Source-1-Global product literature for LJ-100(TM)

    My fault shock dont mean to clog your thread up.

    Palm, bulbine has the potential to increase test up to 300% again, if you get the correct mg for YOUR weight. If you go over, E raises and test drops. I could pull literature on trib to if you want. Every shrub/herb is extract dependent.. throwing Longjack and trib into a "non effective and or garbage" category is silly.
    Wow calm down hard charger. It's not as big a deal as you're making it. To each their own. Lol...

    For every source you cite stating positive results another can be found showing negligible or negative results. IMO stick with what works for you based on experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Trib and long jack are worthless IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    I really just don't believe any research on trib or long jack. My .02 cents
    Your words. All i did was provide validity to anyone else subbd to this thread on effectiveness of Longjack and test increase, in humans (in vitro) not rats.

    /rant
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post

    Your words. All i did was provide validity to anyone else subbd to this thread on effectiveness of Longjack and test increase, in humans (in vitro) not rats.

    /rant
    Very well then. I personally still do not care for either of those two supps. Moving on...

    If the 677 raises igf levels to +60% during long term how does igf-1 lr3 stack against it in a similar fashion over time? I have not found anything on this. Perhaps Tyga would like to comment?
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