My First PH Cycle, Cutting with Epistane
- 08-25-2012, 06:52 PM
My First PH Cycle, Cutting with Epistane
Alright let's start off with the basics. I'm 22 and have been working out for 4 years. I weigh in right at 185 and its time to shed some body fat. I have heard epistane is a great PH to use while cutting so I decided to make a log and share my experience with the rest of the members here.
As far as dosing goes I am doing a 4 week cycle at 20/30/40/40. Midway through the cycle I will begin using formastanozol and continue it through PCT. My SERM is nolva and I will be dosing it at 20/20/10/10. As far as any supplements go on and off cycle, Im using Liv52, LOTS of fish oil, multivitamin, cycle assist/PC Assist, Hawthorn Berry, glutamine, and milk thistle. I may have left out a thing or two and if so I'll edit later.
Here are some of my basic lifting stats, I'll post details after each workout.
Bis: Preacher Curl 80x6
Tris: Close Grip BP 165x1, Overhead DB Press 80x4
Shoulders: Military Press 185x1
Back: Barbell Rows 185x4
Legs: Leg Press: 730x4, Squat 250x4
Chest: DB Decline 75x8, DB Flys 50x6
Im going to attempt to really go more on the reps side rather than weight while cutting down. Never tried it so I mine as well. This log is really just to help others make decisions on their route with epistane and I'll be posting my results in order to pave the way for others! Any tips or advice are greatly appreciated!
- 08-25-2012, 07:52 PM
You won't need an estrogen blocker on cycle. Epistane does not aromatise into estrogen and actually brings estrogen levels down VERY low already. That's why you'll have crazy joint pain. Save the formestane for mid-way PCT. You'll need a test booster as well for PCT. DAA is proven. Get it in powder form and get more bang for your buck.
Also, 20mg is too little of a dose to do anything. You should start with at least 30. Perhaps 30/30/40/40.
I'm starting my Epistane run this Monday for a recomp. You can check out my log for further details. I'll be checking on yours to see how your progress is going. Good luck on your cycle!
- 08-26-2012, 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by epstaneman
08-26-2012, 09:38 AM
Healthy fats, slow digesting carbs, lean proteins and PLENTY of green leafy vegetables.
Olives, olive oil, alvacado, peanut butter, nuts, turkey bacon, ground turkey, chicken breast, fish, thin cut steak, center cut pork chops, broccoli, salad, cabbage, beans, sweet potatoes, etc. Don't consume carbs in your last two meals of the day.
If you don't know much about diet, I'd do some more reading before jumping on cycle. You'll want to make the most of it.
08-26-2012, 09:40 AM
4 weeks on epi is a waste imo, by the time you really feel it your cycle will be over
LG Sciences forum representative
08-26-2012, 09:43 AM
Yeah Epi and hdrol both. Idk about waste but 6 is a good ideaOriginally Posted by hvactech
08-26-2012, 09:46 AM
08-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Hmm I'll consider picking up some havok here soon and going 6 weeks. I couldn't find any more of the white capped epistane and I wanted to play it safe for a first cycle. I'm 5 days in @ 20mg and can tell a difference in aggression when I lift. I'll post my logs when I'm not using the AM app.Originally Posted by hvactech
08-26-2012, 04:36 PM
08-26-2012, 07:07 PM
No fair....everyone's having fun already except me! Day 1 for me starts tomorrow. I'm going to rape Epistane and make beast mode babies!
08-26-2012, 08:04 PM
Alright heres day one's log. Took 20mg, 10 in morning and 10 before bed. I decided to start off with bi's and tri's. I limited time between sets to 30-60 seconds and about 2 minutes between each exercise.
Seated curls: 30x10, 30x10, 25x8
Preacher curls: (By plate on each side) 25x12, 35x8, 35x8/20x16(superset)
Cable curls: 40x20, 50x15, 60x13, 80x15, 90x7
Straight bar: 45x10, 45x10
Close grip BP: 95x12, 115x 12, 115x11, 135x9
Straight bar pull down: 70x12, 90x12, 110x8
Triangle cable push down: 100x12, 120x12, 150x10/110x8/70x8(dropset)
Skullcrusher: 40x12, 40x10, 40x10
I got a huge pump during this workout. More than likely it was the placebo effect of being "on something." I really focused on form and pinching the muscle on every rep. Overall awesome workout. I checked my blood pressure before and a couple hours after the workout and I was ~140/75 and ~65 BPM. BP is on the high side so I will be monitoring it daily. (Checked it today (8/26) and it was 126/82 68 BPM so nothing to worry about)
08-27-2012, 12:30 PM
Week 1, Day 2 8/23
Today I did the same thing as last time with dosing, one in the morning and one before bed. Again I tried to limit time between sets and exercises to get blood pumping and sweat dripping.
Military Press: 135x12, 135x12, 185x5, 155x8, 135x12
Overhead DB Press: 35x8, 40x6, 35x10
Overhead Machine Press: 150x12, 200x6, 200x5
Barbell Rows: 115x12, 135x8, 135x8, -135x8/70x12(T-bar)- SS
Upright Row: 65x10, 65x10, 65x10, 75x8
Dumbbell Row: 70x10, 75x10
Leg Press: 450x8, 540x9, 630x8, 700x5
Squat: 135x12, 180x8, 180x8, 200x4
I got the usual pump in my shoulders, nothing out of the ordinary, but my legs were damn sore the next morning. I recently read an article about leg pressing written by a pro BB and he recommended reps on the leg press stay between 20 and 30! I'm going to try it out and let you guys know how it goes.
08-27-2012, 03:00 PM
08-27-2012, 04:19 PM
How much sugar and fat are in that gravy? EWWW poison. Looks f'n good though.
08-27-2012, 05:26 PM
Haha it's low fat Caesar dressing.Originally Posted by epstaneman
08-30-2012, 06:06 PM
Alright I've been really slacking on this log. Here are the past few days. As of now im currently in the middle of week 2. Here are the past few days though.
Week1 Day 3 Weight 183
Not much to say here. Just went ape **** on my mid section. I was sweating a lot more than usual but more than likely its because it was the first time I had hopped on a treadmill this month. No sides still and blood pressure still normal (125/79). I am still using a pre-workout energy supplement contrary to many people's advice. It contains DMAA but as of now I am having no problems with high bp.
08-30-2012, 06:32 PM
The night after doing cardio and abs I got a pretty gnarly headache. More than likely it was due to too much caffeine or possibly even dehydration. I've been sticking with the gallon-a-day of water but who knows. Before going to bed a took 10mg and drank 50g of protein. I woke up in the middle of the night sweating my balls off.
Week 1 Day 4 8/25
Back/traps weight: 182
Mainly focused on form today to get a good burn. Numbers are still the same, not really expecting much improvement this early on.
No sides but appetite seems to be up.
08-30-2012, 06:33 PM
Week 1 Day 5 (30mg) Weight:184
Incline DB/Cable Crossover Superset: 60x12/40x10, 65x10/50x10, 65x7/50x8
Decline DB: 55x12, 70x10, 80x7
Bench/DB Flys superset: 115x10/35x10, 135x10/35/10, 135x10/35x10
Incline Cable Flys: 30x12, 30x12, 40x10, 30x10
Straight Bar Curl/Cable Curl Superset: 45x10/40x10, 45x12/40x12, 55x10/50x10
Preacher Curl/Lying Incline Bar Curl: 25(plate on each side)x12/10x12, 25x12/10x12, 35x8/10x12
I got a HUGE pump from the supersets on chest. I would really recommend others to try out this chest routine. Keep time between supersets at 90 seconds and you will be PUMPED. I will definitely be using this routine alot for chest unless im going for PRs.
When I workout my biceps I really like to change up the workout every week. It is hard for me to get a solid pump in my arms. When I was doing the straight bar curls I was bent partially forward at the waist, back straight, and you can really feel the burn in the center of your bicep. Couple this with going straight to cable curls REALLY gave me a good pump, even after the first set. I would definitely recommend others work that superset into their bicep routine.
As for sides, I had a bad headache again. BP was still great though. I drank a ton of water to try to combat it but nothing helped other than the ibuprofen I took an hour later.
Before going to bed I drank 50g of ON whey with the last 10mg pill for the night. I woke up in sweat once again and my arms looked pumped and I felt actually really great, especially for sleeping for only 3 hours then waking up. I did go back to bed though, of course.
08-30-2012, 06:34 PM
Again, Will come back to edit
08-30-2012, 07:53 PM
Week 1 Day 7 8/28
Shoulders/Tris Weight: 180
Military Press: 135x12 135x12 155x8
OH DB Press: 35x10 40x10 45x8 50x6
Front DB Raise: 20x12 20x12 20x12
DB Rows: 70x10 80x10 90x10 (PR)
Close Grip BP: 115x8 115x10 135x8
Straight Grip pulldown: 80x15 100x12 110x12
V Grip: 110x12 120x12 120x12 130x12
Today I bumped dosing up to 40mg and am going for 6 weeks instead of 4. I got a nice pump in my posterior delts. No broken PRs today for shoulders but Im going to bring some new numbers to the table next week for damn sure.
My tris exploded today though. Looked bigger than I have ever seen them. I'm sticking to a strict 30 second break between sets on every exercise except close grip benches. I have hit a serious plateau on arms. Years ago before I had any idea about body building all I would train was arms and a little chest. Altogether I have been training them for 5 years and they look far from arms that are supposed to look like they've been worked on for 5 years. When I would train them I would LITERALLY train them 5, 6, and occasionally 7 times a week. Ridiculous, I know, but they never got sore and I wanted that feeling.
I started to train them once a week, maybe twice. They got sore and pumped nicely never seemed to grow. So now, years later, I am switching the arm training up once again. Bis and tris will have their own routine to be stacked on top of whichever other body group is due.
Arms: day 1-bis day 2-off day 3-tris repeat.
Essentially I will work the bis and tris once every 3 days and they can be stacked with any other muscle group. It'll mix things up nicely. It's all about experimentation and I'm still trying to find out exactly what's right for myself! I'll keep you fellas updated with how its working out for myself.
Also dropping ALOT of fat in a short amount of time. Running a restaurant has alot of perks when it comes to meal choices
08-30-2012, 08:03 PM
Don't you mean week 1 day 7? The 8/28 and the two previous posts don't help either. I'm confused.
Either you make no fuc*ing sense or I'm stoned as hell.
08-30-2012, 08:07 PM
ha yea it's week one day 7.
the previous posts where I dont have anything written are there so I can go back and edit them later when I have my log folder with the info in it.
08-30-2012, 08:32 PM
.....the files are 'IN' the computer.
08-30-2012, 09:38 PM
08-31-2012, 05:36 PM
Well phuck, I have no idea where the past couple of days of my log have gone so I guess I will start from here and not do any more back tracking. Here's a summary of the past days though.
Beginning in week two I bumped the dosage up to 40mg. The first week was kind of strange in regards to dosing. But it worked for me and I had no bad sides so I would try it out. Week one went like so:
Day 1: 20mg
This worked for me, I'm a newbie to PH's, and this log is to help those newbies make a decision based on what they think is best (BASED ON RESEARCH HOPEFULLY) mixed with trial and error of others. So far so good for myself.
The only sides I have had (and this has been very lately) is a little lethargy. I still am pumped and excited for each workout but when I'm not in the gym I just feel empty. My gf has definitely noticed along with my family. It's not a big deal at all, I actually feel much less stressed out or edgy especially if I'm getting bitched at for bullsh*t.
I ordered another bottle of epistane, this time its RPN Havoc. As I said in a previous post I will be running a 6 week cycle now. Along with the Havoc I ordered some Forma Stanzol for PCT.
As of today I am at day 10 of the cycle, feeling like a boss and breaking PRs.
09-03-2012, 09:34 PM
Decline Dumbbell BP:
Incline/Cable Crossover SS:
Had to stop here. Shoulder started acting up.
Incline Cable Flys: 50x12, 50x12, 50x12, 50x12
FINALLY, today I actually felt like I had something extra pumping through my veins. I woke up feeling great and aggressive. Today should have been legs but I tracked my days wrong and did chest. I looked back after my workout to see my previous numbers and it turns out I had done chest just 3 days prior to today. In that 3 days rest I recovered and pumped out 2 more reps and 5 more pounds on decline. On incline I know I could have gone so much heavier but my shoulder really started giving me trouble so I made the decision to stop. More than likely I will be doing chest twice a week instead of once.
No side effects today. I felt irritated for about 3 hours after my workout but that's it. After this week I am considering bumping up dosage to 50mg. I want to make the most out of this cycle and my nuts aren't peanuts yet and I haven't had any acne problems.
09-04-2012, 12:20 PM
You said your already dropping fat?!?
09-04-2012, 05:36 PM
09-04-2012, 06:31 PM
Fuuuaark the back pumps have started!!!! Damn they are seriously a bitch and to have them really start on leg day blocks cawk. Gonna start taking the taurine. Anyways, I still managed to have a decent leg workout. Was gonna go for 300 on squat those pumps just demolished my confidence. Stayed at 270 though.. I can seriously tell a difference in my workouts now. I'm recovering quicker between sets and exercises and even between workouts.
I never made it clear when I was dosing the epistane. Once again, it is the IBE Epistane (white top, original stuff), and the dosing goes like so. 10mg right when I wake up, 10 mg ~3 hours later, 10mg post workout (around 6pm) 10mg before bed. I can not stress this enough, if you decide to take it before bed, drink about 50g of protein with the pill. For WHATEVER reason, I personally sleep so much deeper and wake up feeling stronger. So try it out and let me know what you think.
So far only only sides are BaCk PuMpS ...............and feeling alpha as phuck. But onto the workout.
Week 2 Day 14 9/3
Straight Leg Deadlifts:
Joints started acting up on leg press so I decided to play it safe and not up the weight.
Now with tris, I recently watched a Jay Cutler video about his theory on tris and it made sense to me. He doesnt really have a set amount of reps or exercise he does, he goes for feel and it helps him get a better pump. He does try to keep the reps between 12 and 15. I tried it out and it felt pretty good just going close to failure every set. I didnt keep up with the weight or reps but here are the exercises.
Close Grip BP
DB Skull crushers
Straight bar underhand pull down
I got a great pump very quickly then called it quits. I sweated my ass off today as well and loved every second of it
09-04-2012, 07:56 PM
09-06-2012, 04:53 PM
Week 3 Day 15 9/5
Rest Day Weight:?
Today, All I did was sleep. Went to bed the previous night at 2am, woke up at 2pm, went and ate, fell asleep at 5pm, woke up at 8pm.
This screwed up my dosing but I got all 4 pills in with equal space between them. I had no negative side effects except my aggression is definitely elevated ALOT. I find myself getting pretty pissed off when I get into an argument with someone. Thank God I have a decent amount of self control because I felt like going psycho on their azzes.
Another thing I noticed was while just sitting on the couch I got a random pump in my forearm. I thought it was pretty badass.
09-06-2012, 05:13 PM
Alright back up to current day again.
Today, I didn't have a muscle group in mind that I for sure wanted to do. I knew I needed to work out the bis but that is a secondary workout for me so I decide to throw in chest as well.
I had done chest 3 days earlier but before this workout. But before that chest workout (the one on sept. 3rd) I had done chest 4 days before doing chest again (aug. 30th). So I decided 3 days may have been enough and I experimented again.
Started with decline dumbbells as usual and got up to 80lbs each hand. on the 6th rep my arms just gave out. So lesson learned, chest needs more recovery time. On barbell bench though I pumped out more reps with more weight than usual so that was cool.
Biceps, like triceps, I am not going for a certain amount of reps or weight, I changed up my routine and am simply going for the pump.
I did 3 supersets incorporating straight bar, cable curls, preacher curls, incline dumbbells, and incline bar. I'm keeping reps between 12 and 15 and really squeezing at the top. My best advice on getting a monster pump in your bis would be to lower the weight, say on cable curls, and lean a little bit forward, keep arms straight and shoulder length apart, then have arms not right by your side but a little bit back. When you curl, try as hard as you can to flex and pinch the muscle at the top of the curl. I'll do about 5 sets of 12 reps on these and after my forearms are rock hard and Its difficult to even move my fingers. I would definitely recommend giving them a try!
09-06-2012, 05:24 PM
Btw, weight was 185 when I hit the scale at the gym. Guessing about a pound was from the protein shake I drank 30 minutes before.
Either way, I'm losing burning fat like a monster and am keeping my weight the same (even going slightly up) so this stuff is working like a charm.
09-06-2012, 05:41 PM
1. 4 weeks is a waste.
2. forma is pointless as Epi does NOT aromatize. dont misunderstand, I like forma, but I personally would save it for a cycle with something that DOES aromatize...
Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
09-06-2012, 05:58 PM
09-06-2012, 06:38 PM
Here are some before and after lift stats 2 weeks into cycle
Decline DB Press
2 Weeks: 90x8
DB Incline Press
2 Weeks: 75x8
2 Weeks: 270x6
2 Weeks: 85x8
Tricep Cable Pulldown
2 Weeks: 130x12
Strength is reaping the benefits of using a steroid, go figure.
As for size, my chest is the most obvious place of visual improvement. As anyone who has been on a cycle, you will hear the recurring cliche "hey, you look bigger" and it is true in my case as well. Quads are also growing exponentially.
09-06-2012, 07:00 PM
Sweet man...keep it up. I know what you mean ....chest is the first thing I noticed that started looking more 'full' so to speak ....and It seemed yesterday my forearm seemed pumped....like it was sort of difficult to bend my arm to brush my teeth and sh*t. Keep kicking a*s.
09-06-2012, 11:57 PM
Jesus bro. Thats pretty good strength for 2 weeks. Keep it up and keep on busting ass. Cant wait to start!
09-07-2012, 10:51 AM
09-07-2012, 10:53 AM
Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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