6 week cycle began yesterday

Nullifidian

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Sorry I forgot to post yesterday. I began my 6 week prohormone cycle:

Week 1: 80mg M1,4AD/320mg 1-Test (trans)/600mg 1,4andro
Week 2: 100mg M1,4AD/400mg 1-Test (trans)/900mg 1,4andro
Week 3-4: 100mg M1,4AD/480mg 1-Test (trans)/900mg 1,4andro
Week 5-6: 900mg 1,4andro/3gram Tribulus/60mg Nolva (liquid)/ZMA

In a previous thread in the prohormone section, I noted that I want to use this opportunity to find out how suppressive 1,4andro is. I'm doing this by starting effectively starting PCT while still using 1,4andro but no other prohormones or steroids. Sure it might not work, but it's worth a try, and we'll all learn valuable information.

Quick question: should I take the M1,4 in 1 dose or 2, and if 1 dose, when should it be taken? Currently I'm taking it in 2 doses, 1 in the morning, 1 in the evening. 1-Test btw, is applied once in the morning after a shower, and once in the evening after a shower. 1,4andro is divided into 3 even doses; morning, noon, and evening.

I'll be sure to weigh myself at the start of each workout as well as first thing in the morning if I can remember. I'll also post working weights for each exercise.
 

Nullifidian

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Update on working weights and bodyweight:

8/9/2004: I started the stack. I did a leg day that evening. I started a new focus on increasing the outer sweep of my quads.

Close stance squats: 4 sets, final set 475x6
Close stance hack squats: 4 sets, final set 385x6

8/10/2004: Lat day.

Bent over BB row, underhand grip, 75 degree angle: 4 sets, final set 210x6
Wide grip pulldowns: 4 sets, final set 185x5
Underhand closegrip pulldowns (chindowns): 4 sets, final set 185x6


Weight:
8/10/2004 evening I weighed 188 pounds
8/11/2004 morning I weighed 183.5 pounds


Still taking the M1,4AD in 2 doses; 40mg in the morning, 40mg in the evening. Still wondering if this is correct or if 1 dose would be just as effective.
 

mauibuilt

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keep us posted, interested in seeing your results...its been a while since someone has cycled 1,4andro
 

Nullifidian

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Chest/Shoulders day, 8/11/2004:

Dumbell Flat bench: 4 sets, final set 120 pound dumbells (240 ttl) for 2 reps (previous set was 110 pounders, 220 ttl, for 6 though)
Dumbell Incline bench: 4 sets, final set 6x100 pounders (200 ttl), previous sets all 85 pounders for 10-12 (they don't have any 90s or 95s at the company gym)
Dumbell Seated Overhead Press: 4 sets, final set 6x70 pounders (140 ttl)
Seated Arnold Press: 2 sets, final set 6x50 pounders (100 ttl)
Dumbell Lateral Raise: 2 sets, final set 8x25 pounders

Post-workout weight, before shake: 190 pounds
(believe it or not, the shake weighs 1.5 pounds)



Also, a note. Other supplements I'm taking:

Creatine Monohydrate 5g/day; postworkout (with about 3 servings of kool aid and 400mg of R-ALA afterwards)
Taurine 2g/day (it's an insulin sensitizer); lunch
NOX3 (3g Arginine); pre-workout
R-ALA (insulin sensitizer and mimmicker); post-workout


In terms of protein, here's what I supplement (in addition to food):
20g NitroTech with oatmeal at breakfast
1 OneWay bar midmorning (32g)
1 Protein Ice midafternoon (40g)
50g AllTheWhey Banana Isolate + 12 oz whole milk after lunch
50g AllTheWhey Banana Isolate + 8 oz water post-workout
40g Micellean (Micellar Casein) + 8oz milk nightly


Daily protein intake is 340-380 grams currently.


Another note: Saturday morning I was 175 pounds at approximately 8% bodyfat and very little water. I'm 5'6.5"
 

skeptical

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Still taking the M1,4AD in 2 doses; 40mg in the morning, 40mg in the evening. Still wondering if this is correct or if 1 dose would be just as effective.
I had much better results from 4 doses of the M1,4ADD. It seems to have a short half life.
 

Nullifidian

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8/12/2004
pre-workout weight: 193.5 pounds

Bicep/Tricep day

Skull crushers: 4 sets, final set 6x100
Dumbell Kickbacks: 2 sets, final set 6x30s
Tricep Rope Pulldown: 2 sets, final set 8x75
Bicep Barbell Curl: 4 sets, final set 6x90
Incline Dumbell Curl: 4 sets, final set 8x35s


Looks like I'm definitely gaining weight...


4 doses? Wow. I'll try that starting tomorrow. Next week when I up the dose to 100mg though, I'll take 20 monring, 20 noon, 40 preworkout, 20 evening
 

Nullifidian

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8/13/2004
forgot to weigh myself this morning. Sorry. I'll weigh myself this afternoon if possible. It won't be all that accurate though because I will have had food and drink.
 
SJA

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This is interesting. Just to clarify...are you using M14ADD or M1/4ad? I"m assuming it's the former looking at the dosage. So then my question is why are you choosing to stack that with 1,4 andro? Just wanted your thoughts on this. It seems to be really kicking in!!
 
CEDeoudes59

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thats alot of 1-test!
goodluck
 

Nullifidian

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8/13/2004 evening weight: 193.5
8/14/2004 morning weight after 2 minute morning piss: 186

I'm taking M1,4ADDiol, you are correct.

As for why I'm stacking 1,4andro on there, 4 reasons: 1) added vascularity. 2) increased appetite 3) extra lean gains 4) it uses a different conversion enzyme than M1,4ADDiol does so there is no worry over enzyme competition: 1 diol, 1 dione, and 1 complete steroid.
 

cookmic5

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8/13/2004 evening weight: 193.5
8/14/2004 morning weight after 2 minute morning piss: 186
That was one hell of a piss, did you actually see your vascularity increase as you pissed? (JK)

This is a very interesting log, hope it goes well for you.

cm5
 

Nullifidian

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8/14/2004 evening weight: 191

I didn't eat enough food today IMO. Tomorrow I'll have to be extra sure to eat plenty.

In terms of effects, my lower back has been hurting me. The pain is identical to how it feels after a long workout. Also, my left shin feels the same way. Starting to notice increased vascularity in my shins oddly enough. Spotted another vein in my right bicep.
 

Nullifidian

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8/15/2004 morning weight: 188.5

Wasn't expecting that.
 
SJA

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Morning weight is going up. WOW!! Can't wait to get on my wild-n-wet bulking stack. You got my scrawny ass salivating!! :hammer: :thumbsup:
 
SJA

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8/13/2004 evening weight: 193.5
8/14/2004 morning weight after 2 minute morning piss: 186

I'm taking M1,4ADDiol, you are correct.

As for why I'm stacking 1,4andro on there, 4 reasons: 1) added vascularity. 2) increased appetite 3) extra lean gains 4) it uses a different conversion enzyme than M1,4ADDiol does so there is no worry over enzyme competition: 1 diol, 1 dione, and 1 complete steroid.

Have you used any of these compounds prior to this stack? If so, how were you affected and what were they stacked with?
 

Nullifidian

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Never used 1-Test or M1,4

I used 1,4andro though. I saw a very mild increase in appetite from it and a little bit of vascularity, however at the time I only used 300mg per day.
 
CEDeoudes59

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What's your diet look like?
 

Nullifidian

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See-food diet. Plus what I wrote in a post above about protein.
 

Nullifidian

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8/16/2004 morning weight: 190

Midday update - my lowerback has pump all day except when I lie down for a while. Sitting in my car becomes somewhat unbearable after about 20 minutes of driving. Also, my shins burn as if I just ran 6 miles with even the slightest amount of walking. Not sure if this is normal or which compound is the likely culprit.


Also, as according to plan, bumped morning dose of 1-Test to 200mg (5 sprays) and morning 1,4andro to 300mg (400mg/900mg respectively for daily totals). I switch to the 4 doses per day for M1,4. Daily dose is 100mg as originally planned. 20mg morning, 20mg lunch, 40mg pre-workout, 20mg evening.


Oh and another note: I'm horny all the time. 24/7 wood. It's somewhat socially embarassing.
 

Nullifidian

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From reading logs of people who have used Dianabol, it appears the lower back pump is a one of the telltale signs that D-bol is working. So aparently the M1,4AD is what's causing the lower back pumps, and I'm thinking likely the culprit for the shin pain as well. I guess this means it's working and converting nicely. Lord knows I'm increasing weight.

This evening is a leg workout. I'll be doing close stance squats and close stance hack squats like last week. I'll try to pyramid up the weight like last week. Of course, only problem here is that I think my shoulders might not be able to handle all the weight that my legs can. I was working with 475 last week on my last set of squats and 385 for my last set of hack squats. Perhaps I'll see about something along the lines of 505/415 this week.
 

Nullifidian

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Leg day, 8/16/2004

Close Stance Squats: final set 6x525
Close Stance Hack Squats: final set 10x405
 
SJA

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This is going NIIIIIIce.....can't wait to get my M14ADD cycle going. Very inspirational.
 

Nullifidian

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Yeah, I was pretty happy with the leg workout tonight. Actually I probably could have cranked out another 2 hack squats. I'd be willing to bet I could have gone up to like 455x6

However, I didn't so for now I just have to use this as the benchmark to beat next week.


Tomorrow I'm going to take it easy though. My lower back is killing me. I was originally planning back/biceps but I don't think bent over rows would work too well after that squat workout tonight. So I'm going to do Abs and Calves instead. Some simple high rep stuff. I think I'll also be sure to spend a lot of time stretching. I'm feeling tight all over; my flexibility has disappeared lately.
 

tattoopierced1

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Did you take some before pics, and do you plan on taking some "after" pics to visually see your progress?
 

Nullifidian

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Well my before pics are the ones I took for the Mucle & Fitness forum competition. I took those on the Saturday before I started the cycle. I weighed 175 at that time.





 

Nullifidian

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8/17/2004 evening weight: 196

Just abs and calves, all bodyweight stuff. Nothing strenuous; my lower back was killing me.

8/18/2004 morning I forgot to weigh myself.

I think the 1,4andro just kicked in with a fury. I don't know what else could cause my appetite to go through the roof like it just has today. I just had some breakfast, a protein bar, and 3 donuts and I'm still twitching for more food. I'm going to pix up a protein shake and see if that puts a dent in me. If not, then this will hopefully mean I can stop force-feeding myself.
 

Nullifidian

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8/18/2004 Back day:

Underhand Bent over row: 4 sets, final set 6x230
Lat Pulldown: 4 sets, final set 6x195
Underhand Closegrip Pulldown (Chin-downs): 4 sets, final set 8x195


My elbows are starting to give me grief. i.e. they now ache steadily and moreso during a workout. The final set of chindowns was very painful. For chest tomorrow I'll be wearing elbow wraps.
 

Nullifidian

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8/19/2004 evening weight: 196

Chest day:

Barbell Flat Bench: 4 sets, final set 4x275




Bad news -

My right elbow now has a constant intense ache. I had to cut the workout short because the exercises became far too painful to continue. I could have done more reps if it hadn't been for the pain. I'm not sure if it is the joint itself that is damaged or if it is possibly my tricep. Either way, I'm pissed now because I have to rest and thus can't take full advantage of the cycle for the next week. I'll continue with the dosage scheme as planned though. But I'm not going to do any exercises which involve my arms in any way. So I'll do legs on Monday, and Abs/calves on Tuesday, but no back/biceps and no chest/triceps. I think I might use the lateral raise machine at some point and possibly the flye machine since neither puts any strain whatsoever on my elbows.
 
SJA

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8/19/2004 evening weight: 196

Chest day:

Barbell Flat Bench: 4 sets, final set 4x275




Bad news -

My right elbow now has a constant intense ache. I had to cut the workout short because the exercises became far too painful to continue. I could have done more reps if it hadn't been for the pain. I'm not sure if it is the joint itself that is damaged or if it is possibly my tricep. Either way, I'm pissed now because I have to rest and thus can't take full advantage of the cycle for the next week. I'll continue with the dosage scheme as planned though. But I'm not going to do any exercises which involve my arms in any way. So I'll do legs on Monday, and Abs/calves on Tuesday, but no back/biceps and no chest/triceps. I think I might use the lateral raise machine at some point and possibly the flye machine since neither puts any strain whatsoever on my elbows.

Sorry to hear that. :rant: :frustrate Do you supplement any joint stuff? Do you remember any time where you didn't warm up before lifting heavy recently? Injuries really piss me off even when they happen to other people who are making good gains. Hang in there and get some glucosamine, chondriotin sulfate, MSM, and a good collagen supp. Hope that it heals soon.
 

Nullifidian

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I've been taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin for at least 4 or 5 months now. 1500mg/1200mg respectively. Not taking collagen, is it any good? Not sure what MSM is, it sounds familiar though, I might know it's full name but can't think of anything that fits that acronym atm.

On closer inspection of the pain, I think it might actually be tendonitis rather than a joint problem. As for not warming up, that could be it. I only did 1 warmup set the when I did back/biceps this week. It was a crappy super light weight too.

I'm pretty pissed at this problem. I've never broken the 300 mark on barbell flat bench and I was kind of hoping to do so on this cycle.
 
SJA

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I've been taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin for at least 4 or 5 months now. 1500mg/1200mg respectively. Not taking collagen, is it any good? Not sure what MSM is, it sounds familiar though, I might know it's full name but can't think of anything that fits that acronym atm.

On closer inspection of the pain, I think it might actually be tendonitis rather than a joint problem. As for not warming up, that could be it. I only did 1 warmup set the when I did back/biceps this week. It was a crappy super light weight too.

I'm pretty pissed at this problem. I've never broken the 300 mark on barbell flat bench and I was kind of hoping to do so on this cycle.

http://www.msm.com/ArticleDetail.cfm?AID=19

Collagen is the reciever for the enzymes in Gluc/chon. Hyaluronic acid is supposed to be easier for the body to absorb and replace collagen in the joints.

one thing that I noticed with the Gluc/chon is that if I take a liquid or gel cap instead of a pressed pill, it seems to work much better.....absorbtion??

I've also tried EMU oil for similar tendon pains with great success. You have to rub it in the joint/tendon area really hard every night (sometimes morning too).

I get the extra strength EMU oil and MSM form this site
http://colloidalsilversolutions.com/ The easiest way to order is to send an e-mail and then Paypal him. There is no shopping cart on the site but delivery is fast. Otherwise you ahve to fill out some crappy form and snail mail it in :rasp:

Hope that you feel better VERY soon!!!
 

max silver

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Just a quick agreement on the glucosamine/chondritin combo, as I recently noticed exactly the same kind of results as SJA mentions. I had taken this supplement at 3 grams per day for 6 months or so, without much in the way of noticable improvements in joint pain, and I had a ton of aching joints, including a sore wrist, elbow, and knee. Fast forward to 2 weeks after switching to a gel cap form of liquid gluc/chon and I've seen HUGE improvements in joint mobility and pain levels, to the point where I no longer have any wrist or elbow pain, and my knee is only sore a little bit of the time (this one is more badly damaged due to some stupidity a summer ago, and will likely never quite be 100%).
 

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My right elbow now has a constant intense ache. I had to cut the workout short because the exercises became far too painful to continue. I could have done more reps if it hadn't been for the pain. I'm not sure if it is the joint itself that is damaged or if it is possibly my tricep. Either way, I'm pissed now because I have to rest and thus can't take full advantage of the cycle for the next week. I'll continue with the dosage scheme as planned though. But I'm not going to do any exercises which involve my arms in any way. So I'll do legs on Monday, and Abs/calves on Tuesday, but no back/biceps and no chest/triceps. I think I might use the lateral raise machine at some point and possibly the flye machine since neither puts any strain whatsoever on my elbows.
That definitely sucks! Hope it gets to feeling better quickly. You did the right thing by backing off. No use risking further injury. Maybe you could get some backwork in by doing some goodmornings etc. Maybe look at some of the specific lifts you have been doing for a long time and see if cumulative fatigue might not be part of the problem. Some lifts I find to be just murder on the tricep tendons.
 
SJA

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Bump for status. Are you still on cycle? Healing....hurting???
 

Nullifidian

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Sorry for the lack of updates. I haven't worked out; been resting. I should have been posting my weight though.

8/25/2004 morning weight: 200 pounds

Had a massive muscle cramp in my inner thigh last night while getting up from the sofa. It took a minute or 2 to get rid of it. This morning my thigh is still very very sore from it. It feels bruised. Not sure what caused it.

Also yesterday I took a dump. Yeah, yeah, TMI and BFD. The thing is, for the past 4 days I have been EXTREMELY constipated. It appears there is a definite negative side effect to taking large doses of Glucosamine and Chondroitin. The constipation was so bad that yesterday I could barely stand up straight. It prevented me from working out, so I haven't done my leg workout yet this week. When I finally did manage to take a dump, it required so much effort that I broke blood vessels in my upper chest, traps, neck, and face. So now I have all these tiny little red dots all over those areas (thankfully less so on my face though).

As for my elbow, it's feeling much better. I'm still going to stay off it for the week though. There is a pain that I can almost feel. I guess the best way to describe it is, I don't feel any pain there, but I can feel that if I were to exert too much effort with my arm, then I would feel pain.
 
SJA

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Also yesterday I took a dump. Yeah, yeah, TMI and BFD. The thing is, for the past 4 days I have been EXTREMELY constipated. It appears there is a definite negative side effect to taking large doses of Glucosamine and Chondroitin. The constipation was so bad that yesterday I could barely stand up straight. It prevented me from working out, so I haven't done my leg workout yet this week. When I finally did manage to take a dump, it required so much effort that I broke blood vessels in my upper chest, traps, neck, and face. So now I have all these tiny little red dots all over those areas (thankfully less so on my face though).

Not to make light of the situation but BWAHAHAHAH!! :icon_lol:

You need some fiber and water really bad. You're lucky that you didn't blow out yoru asshole....really. If you broke blood vessels in your chest I'm surprised that you aren't shaking hands with a hemorrhoid when you wipe. Get a lot of fiber cereal, veggies, metamucil etc going ASAP. And drink a shitload of water to keep things moving along.
 

Nullifidian

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8/26/2004 morning weight: 200 pounds

Did a mild leg workout yesterday. Just leg press, hip abductor machine, low cable hip abduction, and leg extension. If you're curious about the hip abduction, it's because I need to increase the outer sweep of my quads. While most of the recommendations seem to be close stance squats, close stance deads, close stance hack squats, close stance leg press, etc.

Well I know that the outer sweep of the quads comes mostly from well developed outer quads, and not from hip abductors, however my hip abductors are definitely sub-par, and I think perhaps they might be the real cause of my lack of a decent outer sweep. They are certainly much much weaker than my hip adductors. Plus I think building my abductors will lead to sympathetic muscle growth in my outer quads.
 
SJA

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If you can go back to back on leg press and hack squats, I would try this.

Go low and together with your feet on the leg press until failure (go for 10 rep failure). Then move them about 6" apart and go again until failure (~6 reps). Roll out of the leg press and place your feet in the med section of the hack squat foot rest with your heels about 6" apart and your toes pointed outward. Remember that you took out most of your quads on the press so don't load the weight too heavy. Try for failure at about 8-10 reps here. You will definitely hit outer quad and adductor (you'll love me in the morning). 3-4 sets.
 

Nullifidian

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I don't want to hit my adductors (inner thigh), they are already large. My Abductors are what need help. I always thought abductors are hit more by pointing toes IN, not out.

As for your plan, I'd love to do that but can't. The leg press is at the company gym, but the squat station/hack squat station is at home. I can't do squats at the company gym because they don't have a rack. I can't do leg press at home because I don't own a leg press sled or machine.
 
SJA

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DOH!!! I see that I read that wrong. It's good to see you are back at it again.
 

Nullifidian

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8/30/2004 evening weight: 200 pounds

Leg day, 8/30/2004

Close Stance Squats: 3 sets, final set 6x555
Close Stance Hack Squats: 3 sets, final set 6x485

A quick note: I definitely could have done more for squats but I quite literally did not have any more room to add weights. I need to buy more 45s. The lever weighs about 25 pounds (the manual says 45, but I figure it's a little lighter), I own 8 45 pound plates, 2 35 pound plates, and 4 25 pound plates. That is what I had loaded. However I'm thinking I could have done more than 600. Another problem though is the fact that my shoulders don't like having that much weight pressing down on them.
 
Last edited:

Nullifidian

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YEAH BABY!!! INDIAN FOOD ROCKS!!!

Had a huge lunch at an Indian buffet today. Results:

8/31/2004 chest day

Barbell Flat Bench: 5 sets, final set 315x3!!!!!

That's right, baby! Not only did I break the 300 mark, not only did I put up 3 FRIGGIN PLATES, but I did it not 1 time, not 2 times, but 3 times baby!

On the bad side though, my elbow hasn't recovered fully because it hurts again. However, I didn't tempt fate and ended the workout with that 5th set of flat bench.


NOTE: Until today I had never broken the 300 mark on flat bench. Not even for 1 rep. The closest I had come before today was 285 for 1.
 
DmitryWI

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It's awesome, man. Keep kicking ass:thumbsup:
 

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