Planning a cycle - old man seeks advice!

[Webdango]

Planning a cycle in the next week or two. 5-week Havoc/Katanadrol 2 stack.

I'm an older guy, 45, been lifting all my life (30 years).

I'm following a slow carb diet (no grains, no dairy, limited fruit, no processed sugar) with 1 cheat day per week (eat whatever I want). I supplement with an extra 80g of protein a day, also take 5,000mg fishoil, 1,000mg niacin, and 4,000 iu Vitamin D. I'll stop the niacin for the cycle.

I'm at 180 now, having used this diet to come down about 18 pounds over the last 4 months. At 13% BF and would like to finish this cycle still at 180, but around 8% BF. Dropping weight at this age is tough; my strength has come down a lot. But I've decided my future needs to be lifting smart and looking good, instead of 400+ pounds deadlifts, back injuries and constantly sore joints (already had 1 elbow surgery, supposed to get another and have been putting it off for 2 years).

One previous experience with Havoc; ran a 30mg pulse for 5 weeks 4 years ago, gained 8 pounds, dropped about 2% bodyfat. Sides were even more sore joints and some hellacious back pumps.

Preload (1 week)
week 1
LiverCare @ 2 caps/day (AM, PM)

Cycle (5 weeks)
week 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
LiverCare @ 2 caps/day (AM, PM)
LiverLonger @ 1 cap (AM)
Na-R-ALA @ 1 cap (AM)
Havoc @ 20mg (1 cap AM, 1 cap PM)
Katanadrol 2 @ 200 mg (2 caps AM, 2 caps PM)

PCT (4 weeks)
week 7
LiverCare @ 2 caps/day (AM, PM)
Nolva 20mg

week 8
LiverCare @ 2 caps/day (AM, PM)
Nolva 20mg
Lean XTreme 3 caps (AM, mid-day, PM)

week 9
LiverCare @ 2 caps/day (AM, PM)
Nolva 10mg
Lean XTreme 3 caps (AM, mid-day, PM)

week 10
LiverCare @ 2 caps/day (AM, PM)
Lean XTreme 3 caps (AM, mid-day, PM)

Thanks!

 

[Boagrius]

I understand what your doing but I dont understand what your asking help with?

 

[Webdango]

Hi Boagrius,

Just looking for some feedback on the cycle: dosages, supplements chosen, PCT.... any suggestions for making it better, etc.

Thanks-

 

[Boagrius]

Hi Boagrius,

Just looking for some feedback on the cycle: dosages, supplements chosen, PCT.... any suggestions for making it better, etc.

Thanks-

Up the Havoc to 30mg a day and include Super Cissus for joint support and Taurine for back pumps. I have never used katanadrol so i cant really help much on that one.

 

[Webdango]

I ran Havoc solo at 30 in the pulse a few years ago and responded well. I've alse heard 250 is the sweet spot for Katanadrol v2. But being cautious, I was thinking it might be better to go 20/200 in a stack and extend it to 5 weeks instead of 4.

 

[Boagrius]

I ran Havoc solo at 30 in the pulse a few years ago and responded well. I've alse heard 250 is the sweet spot for Katanadrol v2. But being cautious, I was thinking it might be better to go 20/200 in a stack and extend it to 5 weeks instead of 4.

You can run Havoc 30 for 5 weeks and still be ok. Katanadrol i would say stick with 200 to be safe

 

[Webdango]

OK, I'll do this then: my Havoc is a 90 cap bottle, what this means is I can run 20mg for the first 2 weeks and then 30mg for the last 3 weeks to hit an even 90 caps. That way I won't have to buy another bottle.

I've got cissus on hand, but I tried it before and it didn't do anything. I also tried taurine for the pumps, 2g a day, but that didn't do anything either. Later, someone told me I could go up to 6g a day for the taurine.

Becasue of a ruptured disk about 6 months back, I haven't been doing any heavy deads or squats at all. I only do them 1x a week now and I haven't been above 200, this from a guy who used to do deadlist 5x5 and end up at 385 for my last set.

I've moved away from heavy weight and have been focusing on a time-under-tension workout. 1 set, 7 reps, 5 seconds up, 5 seconds down. If I can get 9 reps, I increase the weight next workout. I'm sure my strength has suffered, but size-wise I haven't lost anything.

Full body 3x a week: leg press, bench press, t-bar row, standing mil press, bar curl, behind the back dips, abs and that it. Whole workout takes about 20 minutes. Seems to be working, although I still have trouble breaking away from the high weight, low reps mindset I've been in ost of my life!

 

[Boagrius]

That looks like a better way to do it. You should see some pretty good results

 

[EasyEJL]

I think you'll see good results, but losing 5% bf in 5 weeks with no weight loss is unlikely.

Where in Tampa are you at? I'm in new tampa, by Wharton High School

 

[EasyEJL]

oh and don't stop the niacin for the cycle, it will be a plus as far as keeping HDL/LDL in line.

 

[Webdango]

Hi EasyEJL-

I'm just across the Hillsborough/Pasco line in Odessa, right off the Veterans and close to 54. Not too far away! Nice to see anther 'old' guy here.

I hear you on the niacin - it (along with the other supps and slow carb diet) made a significant difference in my HDL/LDL. But it stresses the liver. My liver values are fine (just had them checked for a life insurance increase) but with taking a methyl, I thought it might be best to stop for the duration of the cycle.

As far as 5% I'm just looking at the numbers.

180 @ 13% = ~23 pounds of fat (now)
180 with 15 pounds of fat = 8.3% BF (goal)

So I need to swap 8 pounds of fat for 8 pounds of muscle. Based on the 9 pound gain I had on my previous Havoc pulse cycle, I think I can do this if I keep my diet on point and my protein intake high.

Once I start the cycle, I'll log it and do before/after pics.

 

[EasyEJL]

I drive past you then when I head to my parents on the weekends, they are in Tarpon Springs and I take 54 across.

Really with havoc liver strain is pretty low at 20mg and since you are taking the hepaprotective products it shouldn't be a big deal. I'm far more worried about cholesterol + arterial wall damage than short term liver enzyme rises.

And sure, the math seems easy, but in practice i'd bet it will work out more like you either gain 4 scale pounds while losing 3-4 fat pounds or drop 4 scale pounds while gaining 4-5 muscle pounds. Its just thats the way its more likely to work out, 1:1 like that is sooooo hard to make happen in a short amount of time. doing it over 8 months to flip the 8 pounds is still hard.

 

[Webdango]

Yeah, you go right by me then - I'm right off Gunn/54. I like Tarpon Springs, although the greek food I stuff my face with isn't part of my slow carb plan!

I'll consider sticking to the niacin, although to be honest it makes me nervous. When I pulsed Havoc before, I didn't take so much as an aspirin for the duration. Probably paranoid, but maybe that comes with age and finally starting to realize I'm not indestructable like I was 20 years ago

I hear you on the gain/loss. The ultimate goal is to reveal the abs. If I can end up anywhere between 170 - 180 with abs, I'll consider the cycle a success!

 

[EasyEJL]

my parents moved there to be near me, when back in 95 when my wife got pregnant with their first grandchild, got a good price on a house just outside of Howard Park.

at 195 at 5'9.5 i've got top abs showing non-flexed now, and vascular as heck. its taken forever to get here tho. But I started fat, so its been more effort for me to drop fat than really gain muscle.

 

[Webdango]

I'm pretty much the opposite - I've always had trouble putting on muscle, although I've always been string for my build. As I aged, I still had a challenge gaining muscle, but found the fat came easier.

I've finally weaned myself away from the as big as possible mindset (which for me was right under 200, which really isn't big at all) and decided to start leaning up.

And, by Zeus, that's what I'm going to do!