Priming for the Summer (Test-E/Havoc)

monsterbox

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Hello everyone,

Its cycle time again.

This time I'm coming back real deal. Right now I'm 1 month out from the cycle. All comments welcome.

Routine:
Eating 3400cals, (1000 below maint)
Switched to all Low-GI, Oatmeal, wheatwraps, wheat bread.
300g Protein
Cardio 2x week (45mins) running
Weight Training M-T-Th-F (10-12rep range, light workouts)

Stats:
5' 7'', 200lbs, 12%???
Arms - Easily 16+
Chest - I want to say 47...Ill get exact measurements later..

Supplements:
Testosterone Replacement Therapy (gel based, HCG 100IU/daily)
Arimidex .125mg 2x/week as needed
Creatine 5g/day
Cissus/Glucosamine

Recent Blood Test:
TT - 1100ng/dl
Free - double range
E2 - teens
SHBG - 13.5 (low :) )

Goal:
220lbs, 11%, 17.5inch arms

The Cycle:
1-12 Testosterone Enanthate 400-500mg/wk
1-6 Primaforce Havoc 40-50mg, or weeks 6-12 (which one?)
Arimidex as needed
HCG 100iu/daily

PCT:
None, get back on T-gel :006:

Plan to take an off week right before cycle..trying to heal spranged wrist, and minor forearm splints from curling too much.

Cycle starts June 3rd.


Here what we are working with;




I'm currently priming my body, lower carbs, so that Ill be in the most anabolic state possible when I begin. Cals will go back up to 4500+
 
JamieOleBoy

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Lookin' big man, good luck on your goals
 
monsterbox

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I'm runnin the exact same cycle and will kickstart with havoc.

Oh, and forearm splints, loosen the grip dude.
I worked out friday, and my left arm is still bothering me today. When doing pushups I even feel my arm "bending back" from the splint feeling when I get off of it. :damnit:

How long does it take for this to go away? Its not a stress fracture?
 
rtm

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My forearm splints used to come and go all the time. I had just resigned myself that it would always be there at some point or another.

But then I started training with a guy who is a world ranked arm wrestler, and .."you guessed it" trains with a specialized forearm program. It's intense, but over the last 6 months or so I have noticed a significant reduction in when they bother me.
 
monsterbox

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My forearm splints used to come and go all the time. I had just resigned myself that it would always be there at some point or another.

But then I started training with a guy who is a world ranked arm wrestler, and .."you guessed it" trains with a specialized forearm program. It's intense, but over the last 6 months or so I have noticed a significant reduction in when they bother me.
so continues work will not cause further damage to the arm? I figured it would be smarter to take a week or two off and wait for it to heal before working out again. The reason it worries me, is because, 10 years ago, my father was doing chest compression exercises on a bull-worker (which is kind of like a hand-held fly-machine) He had a slight ache sensation in his upper arm and one day his arm snapped in half doing the exercise.
 
timmmah

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I've had the same exact pain and the only thing that helped is to lay off it.
Go lighter for reps and you'll maintain but never heavy until it's better.
 
monsterbox

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I've had the same exact pain and the only thing that helped is to lay off it.
Go lighter for reps and you'll maintain but never heavy until it's better.
Arm feels much better today. However, I can still generate the pain if I try to force my arm against something inmobile, like the wall.

what about heavy bench, dips, and dumbell curls? If I stay away from barbell curls will it be safe to go heavy?

Should I post-pone the cycle until I feel no pain going heavy on straight bar?
 
timmmah

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Go heavy on other areas, like legs, when the pain goes away, work curls back in. It hurts when you do straight-bar curls, right? bench,overhead press, pressdowns are ok, right?
If you're cycle is a month away, stick with it just go easy on curls till then.
 

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My advice would be to hold off on the epi till the 2nd half of the cycle. Reason bein is Epi/Havoc usually kicks in ~3 weeks and Test e gains usually kick in around the same time, maybe a week or so later. IMO, it'd be hard to tell if the starting of your gains are comin from the test or epi, and I'd definitely wanna know where my gains are comin from.

2nd, it'd be nice to lean out at the end of the cycle, so I say run havoc at the end. You should also run it 8-14 b/c it takes 2 weeks for the enanthate to leave the system. If u run it 6-12, u will have 2 weeks of not running anything and I'd rather run somethin to fill the void.

just my 2cents. Other than that, looks good brah. Lighten up and lay off on your forearm splints. I got them pretty bad back then, and the best remedy is to give it time to heal.
 
timmmah

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Monsterbox,
I guess I didn't realize that this is your first injectable cycle. In this case, run test solo first time, don't kickstart or stack, you need to asses your sensitivity to injectables. Which brings me to:
My advice would be to hold off on the epi till the 2nd half of the cycle. Reason bein is Epi/Havoc usually kicks in ~3 weeks and Test e gains usually kick in around the same time, maybe a week or so later. IMO, it'd be hard to tell if the starting of your gains are comin from the test or epi, and I'd definitely wanna know where my gains are comin from.
I however have ran injectables and know what to expect from the enanthate, so as orals have a shorter half life (havoc is 6 hr's, enan 6-10 days) orals also "kick in" the first time of use, which is why it's called a "kickstart"
Needless to say, I'm runnin havoc the first 5 weeks of my 12 week cycle.:fing02:
 

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Monsterbox,


I however have ran injectables and know what to expect from the enanthate, so as orals have a shorter half life (havoc is 6 hr's, enan 6-10 days) orals also "kick in" the first time of use, which is why it's called a "kickstart"
Needless to say, I'm runnin havoc the first 5 weeks of my 12 week cycle.:fing02:
I think OP, if he was to run a kickstart, would need to run somethin that'll work a lot faster and stronger, like dbol or mdrol. It's IMO that by the time u start feeling the full effects of Havoc, it'll come when you start feeling the test. Also, I'll repeat my last statement. If he holds off till the 2nd half of the cycle, he can run Havoc thru the last 2 weeks when he's tryin to let the ester clear
 
monsterbox

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I've run havoc before 3 times. I do not believe it takes 3 weeks to kick in for me. I feel it strongly by day 7. My strength pours in on day 14, end of the second week. I usually have to get 1 workout in, and the second workout on that muscle group is were I notice insane improvement.

I'm very familiar with the affects of havoc, so I think I would be able to distinguish the effects. However, you have a great point by just assesing the sensativity to injectables. I should probably just let it roll in on its own, and add the havoc when gains start slowing, or I want to take things up a notch.
 

rsr08

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I've run havoc before 3 times. I do not believe it takes 3 weeks to kick in for me. I feel it strongly by day 7. My strength pours in on day 14, end of the second week. I usually have to get 1 workout in, and the second workout on that muscle group is were I notice insane improvement.

I'm very familiar with the affects of havoc, so I think I would be able to distinguish the effects. However, you have a great point by just assesing the sensativity to injectables. I should probably just let it roll in on its own, and add the havoc when gains start slowing, or I want to take things up a notch.
I mean you can run epi then if you feel it by day 7, but like I said, u should assess which compound is doing what. If you want, why don't u throw in something like mdrol or dbol as a kick start and hold off on the havoc. Then when u hit your 8th week, throw it in and run it till the 14th week. So...

Test E 1-12wks
Epi 8-14wks
Mdrol 1-3wks
HCG daily
A.I on hand

That's just an example, but u get the point
 
monsterbox

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I mean you can run epi then if you feel it by day 7, but like I said, u should assess which compound is doing what. If you want, why don't u throw in something like mdrol or dbol as a kick start and hold off on the havoc. Then when u hit your 8th week, throw it in and run it till the 14th week. So...

Test E 1-12wks
Epi 8-14wks
Mdrol 1-3wks
HCG daily
A.I on hand

That's just an example, but u get the point
yea I have some m-drol, but its just so strong and hard on the body...
 
monsterbox

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Test solo first time, you need to asses tolerance and sides!
I'm about 90% with you on this...

However, its not my first experience with test. Like I said, I'm already on HCG daily, and I'm taking a heft amount of transdermal testosterone. I'm on pretty much what would be equal to a 200mg/test-e cycle constantly.

So, I'm not expecting too much from 500mg of Test-E. Everyone makes it out to be all earth shattering in that you'll gain like 20-30lbs. I just don't see it happening. I'm already 200lbs, and I've ran PH in the past. I really don't want to run this test and be disappointed, which is why I was strongly considering and oral.

However, as you speak about the sides, this is something thats unpredictable.

I'm now thinking,

add the oral on the back half like the guys suggested above.


Does test have as much propensity to induce high BP, body heat, mood swings, and strong heart beats as these orals? I notice on havoc, I really feel my heart beating hard, just walking up stairs gets me super winded during the 4th week. I feel like i'm carrying around 80lbs on my back everywhere I go...I can't even kiss my girlfriend without gasping for air. This is the one thing I hate about havoc.
 
timmmah

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If I was in your shoes, I'd probably run havoc the last two weeks of cycle threw till the esther clears like dude said. But that's not the advice I would give because it's not my body.
 

rsr08

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If I was in your shoes, I'd probably run havoc the last two weeks of cycle threw till the esther clears like dude said. But that's not the advice I would give because it's not my body.
This is the right type of advice to give to someone IMHO. It makes sense, right? What's the harm of running havoc thru the 2 weeks of ester clearance when ur already shut down? It's like a window of opprotunity to run something during a time of when an ester clears, and since OP doesn't have to take PCT, it's a win-win situation. Plus, u r basically extending the cycle, which gives ur body more time to adapt to any changes in strength gains, body recomposition, newly added muscles, etc. If I was to spend money on a cycle of AAS, and I was given either 12 weeks or 14 weeks to run a full cycle, I'd definitely get my moneys worth and go for the 14 weeks! :food:
 
monsterbox

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This is the right type of advice to give to someone IMHO. It makes sense, right? What's the harm of running havoc thru the 2 weeks of ester clearance when ur already shut down? It's like a window of opprotunity to run something during a time of when an ester clears, and since OP doesn't have to take PCT, it's a win-win situation. Plus, u r basically extending the cycle, which gives ur body more time to adapt to any changes in strength gains, body recomposition, newly added muscles, etc. If I was to spend money on a cycle of AAS, and I was given either 12 weeks or 14 weeks to run a full cycle, I'd definitely get my moneys worth and go for the 14 weeks! :food:
This is great reasoning. Now its a real toss-up between kickstart/tail
 

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How about a dbol kickstart for 4 weeks, then a 6 week break, followed by 4 weeks of havoc? It seems like it'd be easier to reach a point of diminishing returns during weeks 5 and 6 with havoc when stacking it with an injectable
 
monsterbox

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How about a dbol kickstart for 4 weeks, then a 6 week break, followed by 4 weeks of havoc? It seems like it'd be easier to reach a point of diminishing returns during weeks 5 and 6 with havoc when stacking it with an injectable
well, I dont have dbol, but I do have m-drol. M-drol is just so hard on your blood. Which is worse for you? Dbol or m-drol? If they are the same theres no point in running dbol, I might as well kick off with m-drol.
 

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well, I dont have dbol, but I do have m-drol. M-drol is just so hard on your blood. Which is worse for you? Dbol or m-drol? If they are the same theres no point in running dbol, I might as well kick off with m-drol.
I think m-drol is considerably harsher on lipids and the liver, assuming you don't megadose the dbol. But if you ran it for 3 weeks at a reasonable dose with support supps and supplement with fish oil, you would prob be okay to run havoc 7 weeks later (it would be time on+pct if ran solo). You could always get a blood test done before you did the havoc too
 
monsterbox

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Day 1:

Went ahead and started the havoc at 20mg today. Havoc takes about 2 weeks to kick in, so I'm going to run it a week before I start the test.

Weight Today: 200lbs even.
 
monsterbox

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did you start the test as well?
not yet, I'm starting the test next monday. Havoc takes a little longer to build and I want everything to peak at the same time. I do not want to continue havoc during the peak of my test-e
 
monsterbox

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Day 3: 20mg Havoc

I can already feel the havoc in my system. Its so crazy how just 60mg over 3 days can have an affect. After every pill, I get a slight increase in blood pressure. Libido is increasing a bit, and I'm sadly retaining water.

Strange how havoc makes me retain water now. In the past is used to dry me out. Anyone have a theory as to why this happens? I assume its the combination of havoc+my TRT.

Went ahead and dosed .125mg of Arimidex.

Weight: 201lbs


Plan is to maintain 20mg/day. Increase cardio to 3x week, 30mins. Begin 500mg test-e sunday. Ill also bump up to 30mg/day havoc.
 
carpee

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i'm excited to see this one. I remember your first havoc cycle and the huge transformation you made in a year.
 
monsterbox

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i'm excited to see this one. I remember your first havoc cycle and the huge transformation you made in a year.
thanks man!

Still trying to decide if I should recomp or bulk. Don't know if this is going to be a huge transformation again. As much as I want to eat twice as much and get huge, I think the girlfriend and family are going to freak out on me.
 
carpee

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thanks man!

Still trying to decide if I should recomp or bulk. Don't know if this is going to be a huge transformation again. As much as I want to eat twice as much and get huge, I think the girlfriend and family are going to freak out on me.
I'd say Recomp bro.

I'd kill to be your size. You will still be able to put on some size during this cycle, but if you get shredded, it'll give you that illusion of being bigger.
 
monsterbox

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I'd say Recomp bro.

I'd kill to be your size. You will still be able to put on some size during this cycle, but if you get shredded, it'll give you that illusion of being bigger.
I'm going to just clean up the diet, drop the high GI carbs and only eat carbs before and after workouts. Ill increase calories 500 above maint, and continue increasing as I gain LBM. I guess you could call this a "lean bulk"
 
carpee

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I'm going to just clean up the diet, drop the high GI carbs and only eat carbs before and after workouts. Ill increase calories 500 above maint, and continue increasing as I gain LBM. I guess you could call this a "lean bulk"
carbs at breakfast, pre and post workout. With the incredible nutrient partitioning going on you will lean out and put on size.
 
carpee

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forgot to mention...i've been makin smoothies lately with egg whites/protein powder, oats, blueberries and strawberries. No problems with adding these types of fruits in there.
 
monsterbox

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carbs at breakfast, pre and post workout. With the incredible nutrient partitioning going on you will lean out and put on size.
Forgot to mention, I have to IGF-1 LR3 coming in too :sgrin:
 
monsterbox

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Day 3: 20mg

Took my 2nd pill of the day, 2 hrs ago. Noticeble hardness/pump feeling. It must be the nutrient repartitioning. I just can't believe how fast this stuff works on me.

Also noticing the mood swings. I always have terrible mood swings on epi. I go from feeling awesome to feeling really depressed/want to cry out of no where about stupid crap.


I know you guys are rolling your eye's going placebo...but just wait :) This cycle, if I can stick it out, will be earth shattering. Test starts sunday :)
 
monsterbox

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Day 7: 30mg

Weight 200.5

I'm been keeping carbs low and protein high. I've leaned out about .5% BF this week, if not a little more. Noticeably more definition in lower abs and my muscles are fuller.

Still not to much "on" feeling yet. Its only day 7...another week at 30mg and havoc will turn "on".

Side Effects:

Mild anxiety late at night before falling asleep,

Major decrease in appetite the past 2 days. Hopefully it will fade.
 
monsterbox

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did you pin today?
I did, and FAILED. WTF.

I had 1 syringe and 1 extra needle 25g. I drew with a 20, switched to a 25, put it in my quad, aspirated, and started pushing the pluger. It wouldn't move through the needle...so I pushed a little harder and the damn needle popped off the syringe blasting the oil all over the place. Complete waste of 1ML!!! god damit.

Now I have to wait for my addional pins to arrive on wednesday.

I don't know what happend? I guess the needle wasn't screwed in far enough and popped off the threads?
 
epilogue

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I did, and FAILED. WTF.

I had 1 syringe and 1 extra needle 25g. I drew with a 20, switched to a 25, put it in my quad, aspirated, and started pushing the pluger. It wouldn't move through the needle...so I pushed a little harder and the damn needle popped off the syringe blasting the oil all over the place. Complete waste of 1ML!!! god damit.

Now I have to wait for my addional pins to arrive on wednesday.

I don't know what happend? I guess the needle wasn't screwed in far enough and popped off the threads?
Wow.. yeah that sucks. I draw and pin with 22g. It's not hard to push in, but the inj site is sore as hell for a day or so.. I don't know if it's from the needle or what. Does anyone know if you can push it in TOO fast? My last injection I pushed in really fast and it seemed to be even more sore... lol
 
monsterbox

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Wow.. yeah that sucks. I draw and pin with 22g. It's not hard to push in, but the inj site is sore as hell for a day or so.. I don't know if it's from the needle or what. Does anyone know if you can push it in TOO fast? My last injection I pushed in really fast and it seemed to be even more sore... lol
my needle site isn't sore at all whatsoever. I didn't inject, but the needle went all the way in.
 
monsterbox

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Day 8: 30mg

30mg again for havoc. I'm tempted to go up to 40-50 like usual, but i dont want to overdo the havoc on top of the test. Test should officially begin tomorrow when the pins arrive.

Weight: 200-202. Depending on carbs.

Looking slightly leaner, before I carb up before workouts.

Sleep is good. Libido is at an all time high.

When I eat carbs, I can feel blood rushing into my muscles and everything gets tense all around, almost like an allergic reaction...I think today is going to be the havoc on-day :) Its amazing how carb-sensative the epithio compounds is...you have to really watch salt/carbs or you turn into a polar bear.

Sides:

Slight anxiety at night, mostly from the shortness of breath. I hate how havoc takes my breath away. I feel like Im breathing in a paper bag alot of times. It comes and goes...I'm going to up the hawthorne and maybe throw in celery.

Stay tuned...gains should be coming shortly!. Test should start tomorrow, and I have the filter coming in to make my acetic acid solution for IGF tomorrow. 2-3 weeks and it will be balls out Test+Havoc+IGF. Sounds nuts.


Still EXTREMELY mad that my first shot blew out all over the place!! F*ckin A!
 
UnrealMachine

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when i swap to my "shooting needle" i twist it on very tight! It should not pop off ever. I dunno what to say about that, other than saying how I prefer 23g needles to 25g.
 
monsterbox

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when i swap to my "shooting needle" i twist it on very tight! It should not pop off ever. I dunno what to say about that, other than saying how I prefer 23g needles to 25g.
I guess I missed that part....I didn't think it'd have to be tightened. Ill be triple checking next time. Wish I bought 23's. That 25 was like pushing concrete through a straw.
 
bigzach1234

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Wow.. yeah that sucks. I draw and pin with 22g. It's not hard to push in, but the inj site is sore as hell for a day or so.. I don't know if it's from the needle or what. Does anyone know if you can push it in TOO fast? My last injection I pushed in really fast and it seemed to be even more sore... lol
bro bump to 23g.. 22 is painful as hell... and hell yes u can push in too fast.. anything more then 30 seconds per mL is too fast... u need to go slow... very slow.. let the oil disperse into your muscle.. the faster you push it in the more pain youll be in.. my first pin ever was with sust.. pushed 2 mL in in 3 seconds max... soooo much pain..... the good thing about smaller needles is it takes longer to inject all the oil.. thats why i love 25gs... youll go nice and slow with no pain
 
monsterbox

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1st Pin DONE!

Wasn't as bad as I anticipated. Shot in the quad. Took FOREVER to get the stuff out. At least 90 seconds. I used a 1.5inch and went about 80% in...I started getting resistance if I tried to go further and it started to get uncomfortable is this okay? Also, I was so nervous I forgot to aspirate. Major no no! But, No blood or anything.

Waiting for the injection pain now...how long till that pops up? Will I notice anything at all from one shot? Increased libido, well being etc..? I'm trying to decide if i should start igf-1 lr3 now or later when the test kicks in, I'm just afraid of test sides and getting them mixed up.
 
epilogue

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hmmm just did another one this time in my glute. I didn't even feel the injection or the oil going in... Pinned about an hour before I hit the gym, not really on purpose just worked out that way... Didn't hurt in the gym but now that i'm sitting on my ass it's sore lol
 
epilogue

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1st Pin DONE!

Wasn't as bad as I anticipated. Shot in the quad. Took FOREVER to get the stuff out. At least 90 seconds. I used a 1.5inch and went about 80% in...I started getting resistance if I tried to go further and it started to get uncomfortable is this okay? Also, I was so nervous I forgot to aspirate. Major no no! But, No blood or anything.

Waiting for the injection pain now...how long till that pops up? Will I notice anything at all from one shot? Increased libido, well being etc..? I'm trying to decide if i should start igf-1 lr3 now or later when the test kicks in, I'm just afraid of test sides and getting them mixed up.
I didn't feel anything until about 3 weeks but I'm not taking near as much.. I feel really good now. Libido is great.. Good pumps in the gym, not much strength though.
 
monsterbox

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I didn't feel anything until about 3 weeks but I'm not taking near as much.. I feel really good now. Libido is great.. Good pumps in the gym, not much strength though.
I'm only running 500...what are you taking?
 
monsterbox

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did some pushups today and realized my f*cking forearm splint in my left arm is back. This sucks...I'm just goin to push through it, and start putting the igf-1 in my left forearm.
 

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