Test cyp, Test Prop, Winny...HELP!

[cala1981]

I am looking into my first AAS from doing a few PH cycles. Looking for lean, dry gains, not a ton of mass, and easy to keep. (maybe 10 - 12 lbs total) I have been doing so much research, and I feel as though I am going in circles. Originally I was going to do a Winny only cycle for 6-8 weeks with some Nolva PCT (simple). It seems that no one recommends this for lots of reasons. I am now just confused after months of research. Test only? (Cyp or Prop)?, Test with Winstrol, 8 weeks Test with Winstrol only last 6 weeks, adding Arimidex on cycle or just during PCT.

Being my first cycle, not knowing exactly how these are going to affect my body, am I best off doing Test only? Prop, Cyp...?? Winny only or a combo of both? Or should I switch it up completely?

PCT with both Clomid and Nolva? AI needed? HCG?

Any help would be appreciated, if anyone has had success with this type of cycle as a novice, a sample cycle would be great...

Height: 5'8
Weight: 202
BF: 11%
Age: 29

Thanks!

 

[nosnmiveins]

a simple test only cycle is always advised for a noob to injectables, but personally i see no harm in adding an oral in there...winstrol would be fine.

Test E or C 500mg/week 1-10
Winstrol 50mg ed 7-12

 

[EustisPanther]

-As it's your first cycle, personally I would advise against a long ester test like cyp or enanthate. Point being, if you begin to develop problems, i.e. gyno, unwanted bloat, etc. you're stuck with the test in your system for an extended period of time. With prop, although you inject eod., the test will be gone in 3 days tops if you begin to experience sides. This makes it much easier to manage sides for someone who is new.

-I would not use both clomid and nolva. Either or, C- 100/100/50/50 or N-40/40/20/20

-If you want mainly lean dry gains you're probably better off with the prop bc it's believed to have less estrogen spill over as the test is consumed in a much shorter window than with cyp/enan.

-hcg- you'll get mixed advice on this. Search around, many people say it's not needed for a cycle of 10 weeks. But it also shouldn't hurt if you choose to take the extra precaution.
Around 500iu's every 4 days from about week 4-10. (If someone has another idea, chime in)

 

[cala1981]

Thank you guys for the info. So would an 8 week cycle be too short?

Is Arimidex all I need to have on hand if sides start showing....or would running .5 mg of it throughout cycle be a good idea anyway?

Cycle I was considering:

Weeks 1-8 100mg Test Prop EOD.
Weeks 3-8 40mg Winny ED.
Weeks 1-8 .5mg Arimidex ED
PCT
Weeks 9-11 Arimidex .5mg ED
Weeks 9-12 Nolva 40/40/20/20
Weeks 9-12 HCG 500ius EOD

Is this solid? What kind of Cycle Support would you recommend running for liver, heart, etc? OTC?

Thanks again?

 

[EustisPanther]

Thank you guys for the info. So would an 8 week cycle be too short?

Is Arimidex all I need to have on hand if sides start showing....or would running .5 mg of it throughout cycle be a good idea anyway?

Cycle I was considering:

Weeks 1-8 100mg Test Prop EOD.
Weeks 3-8 40mg Winny ED.
Weeks 1-8 .5mg Arimidex ED
PCT
Weeks 9-11 Arimidex .5mg ED
Weeks 9-12 Nolva 40/40/20/20
Weeks 9-12 HCG 500ius EOD

Is this solid? What kind of Cycle Support would you recommend running for liver, heart, etc? OTC?

Thanks again?

An 8 week cycle of Prop is fine. Cyp would need to be longer.

There is a major difference between the uses of A-Dex and Nolva. They are different types of drugs.

-I would not use A-dex during PCT, and I also would not use hcg during PCT. It can be suppressive itself.

-Test Prop-
-100mg-150mg e.o.d 8 weeks
-A-Dex .25-.50mg/day ONLY , and I stress ONLY if you need it, bc you are -getting bloated, which I doubt with prop.
-hcg 250-500iu's every 4 days from weeks 3/4-8

PCT
Nolva 40/40/20/20

 

[cala1981]

I see. So A-dex and hcg should be used only ON cycle? So much info to learn.

My 2 concerns are gyno and heart/High BP. Is A-dex on cycle the only thing to consider when trying to avoid gyno? Some say Nolva ON cycle, then Clomid PCT. Is that good advice or does the Nolva hinder gains too much?

Anything to add to PCT to be safe or is Nolva/Clomid always solid alone?

Thanks again.

 

[EustisPanther]

I see. So A-dex and hcg should be used only ON cycle? So much info to learn.

My 2 concerns are gyno and heart/High BP. Is A-dex on cycle the only thing to consider when trying to avoid gyno? Some say Nolva ON cycle, then Clomid PCT. Is that good advice or does the Nolva hinder gains too much?

Anything to add to PCT to be safe or is Nolva/Clomid always solid alone?

Thanks again.

A-Dex will hurt gains FAR more than Nolva. As well as risk increasing your BP.

A-Dex is an aromataze inhibitor while Nolva/Clomid are SERM's (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator)

A-Dex will prevent excess test from converting into estrogen, which will prevent bloat and help prevent gyno (will not shrink it), or keep it from getting worse. But the problem is Estrogen has a number of positive effects as well. It helps release, GH, good for your cholesterol, BP, etc.

This is why I would advise against A-Dex unless you really feel like you're bloating and don't want to continue without it. With prop this is not likely to happen.

A SERM is basically a weak estrogen that binds with certain estrogen receptors in the body, i.e. breast tissue and prevent an further estrogen from interacting with these receptors. Think of it like plugging a hole so nothing else can get through it. If the receptors are taken up by the Nolva, then they can't be effected by the estrogen created from excess test on cycle.

If you do feel you are getting gyno, Nolva should be run on cycle daily.

As far as PCT I would still go with nolva, clomid is fine as well but I've never heard/read that if you use one during cycle you should use the other for PCT

 

[cala1981]

If gyno starts to develop, how much nolva on cycle should be taken daily? Also, what if anything should be run PCT with the Nolva?

 

[EustisPanther]

I would start with 20mg at night and then up to 40mg if you need to.
A-Dex can be used in this event to prevent further complications while the Nolva is helping you get rid of the gyno.

During PCT besides Nolva, I would consider a test booster. But it depends how suppressed you are.

 

[cala1981]

I was thinking of running a test booster just to be safe. Any recommendations?

 

[EustisPanther]

Reversitol v2 , Formadrol Extreme , I can't make a solid recommendation on a test booster bc I've got limited experience with them. Usually did fine with Nolva solo.

But there are a ton of reviews on AM about these two and others like them.

 

[tim1985]

I see. So A-dex and hcg should be used only ON cycle? So much info to learn.

My 2 concerns are gyno and heart/High BP. Is A-dex on cycle the only thing to consider when trying to avoid gyno? Some say Nolva ON cycle, then Clomid PCT. Is that good advice or does the Nolva hinder gains too much?

Anything to add to PCT to be safe or is Nolva/Clomid always solid alone?

Thanks again.

Run the Adex if you notice your bloating up. Adex will not raise blood pressure, if anything it will lower it because decreasing estrogen decreases water retention(bloat). Retaining too much water can raise BP, but at the same time you do not want to crush estrogen you just need to control it so dose low.

Formestane is a good option for estrogen control.

 

[cala1981]

I have not looked into formestane. You prefer over adex?

 

[EustisPanther]

Run the Adex if you notice your bloating up. Adex will not raise blood pressure, if anything it will lower it because decreasing estrogen decreases water retention(bloat). Retaining too much water can raise BP, but at the same time you do not want to crush estrogen you just need to control it so dose low.

Formestane is a good option for estrogen control.

I don't know who told you that, but A-Dex does have an indirect impact on BP. I would know, I suffer from High Blood Pressure. Besides if he's running Prop I seriously doubt he will retain so much water it elevates his BP.

The excerpt below is directly from the Arimidex Website, (owned by AstraZeneca):
In the early breast cancer clinical trial, the most common side effects seen with ARIMIDEX include hot flashes, joint symptoms (including arthritis and arthralgia), weakness, mood changes, pain, back pain, sore throat, nausea and vomiting, rash, depression, high blood pressure, osteoporosis, fractures, swelling of arms/legs, insomnia, and headache

 

[tim1985]

I don't know who told you that, but A-Dex does have an indirect impact on BP. I would know, I suffer from High Blood Pressure. Besides if he's running Prop I seriously doubt he will retain so much water it elevates his BP.

The excerpt below is directly from the Arimidex Website, (owned by AstraZeneca):
In the early breast cancer clinical trial, the most common side effects seen with ARIMIDEX include hot flashes, joint symptoms (including arthritis and arthralgia), weakness, mood changes, pain, back pain, sore throat, nausea and vomiting, rash, depression, high blood pressure, osteoporosis, fractures, swelling of arms/legs, insomnia, and headache

Ive never had BP issues from Adex, I would know, I also have high BP. Have you used Prop? Because it can aromatize enough to mess with BP, I would know, Im on it right now. I don't care what that copy paste stuff says, IN MY EXPERIENCE ADEX DID NOT RAISE MY BLOOD PRESSURE, IT LOWERED IT

 

[EustisPanther]

Ive never had BP issues from Adex, I would know, I also have high BP. Have you used Prop? Because it can/does cause bloat, I would know, Im on it right now.

what a coincidence, makes two of us.. 100mg eod

Besides, you've obviously been in the game for a bit. You should know that side effects simply means X number of people will experience these adverse effects that are undesirable. Meaning not everyone will get High BP bc of A-Dex, but for some it will have an effect. Likewise, test prop can cause bloat, although it is also used to cut on bc of it's short ester. So it's possible to avoid bloat.

 

[tim1985]

what a coincidence, makes two of us.. 100mg eod

Besides, you've obviously been in the game for a bit. You should know that side effects simply means X number of people will experience these adverse effects that are undesirable. Meaning not everyone will get High BP bc of A-Dex, but for some it will have an effect. Likewise, test prop can cause bloat, although it is also used to cut on bc of it's short ester. So it's possible to avoid bloat.

Yeah, your right about how things effect people differently, I have yet to hear anyone complain about adex raising BP, Ive only heard the opposite, but that doesn't mean its not possible.

 

[EustisPanther]

Well I find myself very sensitive to such products, so in my case it does have an effect. But no, that's certainly not the case for everyone.

Good luck with your cycle bro.

 

[cala1981]

Thanks for all the info!

 

[EustisPanther]

Thanks for all the info!

No Problem, I'm sure Tim and I can agree on this.. (get some a-dex)

Use it if you need it (bloat etc.) , stop if you have negative sides (monitor your BP daily). If you do need to stop it, I would run Nolva in it's place, it will work through a different method in the body.

 

[tim1985]

No Problem, I'm sure Tim and I can agree on this.. (get some a-dex)

Use it if you need it (bloat etc.) , stop if you have negative sides (monitor your BP daily). If you do need to stop it, I would run Nolva in it's place, it will work through a different method in the body.

Yes, get some adex or aromasin. Formestane can be used, I know a guy on here that used it for a cycle of Test cyp(1g+), dbol and SD cycle and he was very pleased with its effectiveness.

 

[cala1981]

Thanks again for all the info. Ordering tonight. The only other thing is, when during the day should i take each product assuming I was needing to take all of them? together or some am, some pm?

test prop
winny tabs
adex - if needed
hcg
nolva - if needed (before bed?)

pct nolva
test booster

Thanks again, and here goes nothin...

 

[EustisPanther]

Thanks again for all the info. Ordering tonight. The only other thing is, when during the day should i take each product assuming I was needing to take all of them? together or some am, some pm?

test prop
winny tabs
adex - if needed
hcg
nolva - if needed (before bed?)

pct nolva
test booster

Thanks again, and here goes nothin...

With the test it doesn't really matter IMO. Just take it at the same time EOD. The point is to keep steady levels of T in your blood and the ester will make each injection ware off at the same rate, so same time each injection.

The winny, if you're taking multiple doses I would spread them out equally throughout the day, again to keep steady levels of the drug in your blood.

A-Dex I'm not sure, Tim can chime in here.
And the Nolva is commonly dosed at night.

Hcg, again I would pick a time and stick with it for each injection.