1-T Tren LV w/4-AD Log

[ex-tightend83]

What's up everyone,

Hope you're all enjoying the holidays. Next Monday (Jan. 4th), I will be embarking on a 6-week cycle of PP's 1-t Tren LV and AMS' 4-AD. I will then be takkng PCT consisting of PP's TRS...although I'm a bit disappointed because when I called NP to order it, they were out of the Toco-8, which means I can't save money. They gave me some story about PP concentrating more on selling out of the 1-T Tren LV by the 4th (I thought all those bottles were gone?!) and that PP is not sending any online store anything for at least two weeks (?). So I ordered the SA Liqui-Vade and Endo-Amp and will order the Toco-8 later on this week from PP. Needless to say, I'm not very happy, but oh, well...when I ordered from AMS online, I bought three bottles of the 4-AD XL, but the website says to allow THREE TO FIVE DAYS for them to ship (any AMS reps wanna chime in here?!), but naturally, I was told this AFTER I placed my order...sheesh. My protocol is as follows:

Training: 5-day split (M-F)

On Cycle Supps (Weeks 1-6):
1-T Tren LV: start with three 2-ml doses for the first week, may up to 3ml after this, depending on how I feel and advice.

4-AD: Two (2) 1-ml doses, may up to three doses for second week

Sustain Alpha: 5 days on, two days off to enhance/protect libido

PCT (weeks 7-12)

Toco-8 (per label instructions)
EndoAmp (per label instructions)
AI Post-Cycle Support
I also have 45 tablets of Tamoxifen on hand (a just-in-case SERM)

Throughout Cycle:

ON HydroWhey
ON Casein
Universal Animal Pak (multivitamin)
Scivation Xtend (BCAAs)
Glutamine
Fish Oils
Vitamins C, D, E
Palo Alto Labs Incarnate
Arginine (powder)
Phosphatidylserine (powder)
Carnitine (powder)

I have creatine, but I'm thinking of saving it for PCT. Also, I assume I'll still be taking the 4-AD and 1-TT LV even on Saturday and Sunday (non-workout days)?

Also, I have a bad left shoulder, so pressing movements will be compromised to some degree. But it's better to have 50% of something than 100% of nothing. Too bad it took me f-ing up my shoulder to realize that, LOL!

I'll be keeping a close eye on my libido, any signs of gyno, muscle hardness, intensity and, of course, aggression--which I have to keep a lid on, because I'm a quick-tempered person by nature...so I'll try my best to stay the fukk away from people while I'm on this, which is easier said than done. Trouble seems to find me when I'm out and about.

Beginning Stats:

Age: 42
Height: 6'3"
Weight: 328 lbs, at 19% BF.

Let's see if we can add more bodyweight with little or no fat gain. Tall order, but I think it can be done. Any and all help is appreciated.

Oh, one last thing: In regards to the 1-TTLV, what the hell is a "WORM SHOT?" I keep seeing this as a way to take this, but I don't quite get it. Would someone care to explain this to me?

 

[SimplyDraven]

Just to be clear are you cycling 1-T LV or the newer TREN LV?

The worm shot is just a small amount of water in a cup, squirt in your syringe full of LV and take it like a shot without mixing. The LV looks like a worm in the bottom of the cup. This is how I've been dosing mine and you really can't taste a thing...

You are a big mother f*cker man.
Good luck. Keep us posted!

 

[ex-tightend83]

Just to be clear are you cycling 1-T LV or the newer TREN LV?

The worm shot is just a small amount of water in a cup, squirt in your syringe full of LV and take it like a shot without mixing. The LV looks like a worm in the bottom of the cup. This is how I've been dosing mine and you really can't taste a thing...

You are a big mother f*cker man.
Good luck. Keep us posted!

It's the Tren LV, the soon-to-be discontinued one (if it isn't already). I'm just waiting for my three bottles of AMS 4-AD XL, I will order a container of Toco-8 tomorrow, and I'll be ready for Monday.

 

[Trauma1]

In, buddy. Good luck!

 

[ex-tightend83]

T1! Whazzup, ma man? Not very happy with PP right now, if you've read...costing me extra money for the TRS stack! I had to order everything SEPARATELY, 'cuz NP was out of the Toco-8. Now I have to order that separately tomorrow! Can you help?

 

[ex-tightend83]

Not yet, if at all. I don't have a digital camera, and I'm not exactly computer literate. I may confer with a friend of mine who is and post some at the end of the cycle. We'll see.

 

[Trauma1]

T1! Whazzup, ma man? Not very happy with PP right now, if you've read...costing me extra money for the TRS stack! I had to order everything SEPARATELY, 'cuz NP was out of the Toco-8. Now I have to order that separately tomorrow! Can you help?

Check out our New Years Sale:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/142303-primordial-performances-new.html

GREAT price on the TRS.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Check out our New Years Sale:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/142303-primordial-performances-new.html

GREAT price on the TRS.

I saw it, but like I said, I already have SA Liqui-Vade and Endo-Amp coming in the mail. It doesn't make sense for me to buy the whole stack again. Plus, NP ships a bit quicker than PP does. Sigh...I'll just look for a deal on the Toco-8 elsewhere online.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Im in here yo. Good luck big guy.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Glad to have all of you . Thank you.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

On Cycle Supps (Weeks 1-6):
1-T Tren LV: start with three 2-ml doses for the first week, may up to 3ml after this, depending on how I feel and advice.

4-AD: Two (2) 1-ml doses, may up to three doses for second week

Sustain Alpha: 5 days on, two days off to enhance/protect libido

PCT (weeks 7-12)
Toco-8 (per label instructions)
EndoAmp (per label instructions)
AI Post-Cycle Support
I also have 45 tablets of Tamoxifen on hand (a just-in-case SERM)

why are u using the sustain alpha 5 days a week On cycle to protect libido when ur running 4-ad with it? im pretty sure the 4-ad would keep ur libido up and why arent u running the sustain in ur pct? or did u just not list it in ur pct list? also i thought sustain is only used like EOD on cycle?

 

[ex-tightend83]

why are u using the sustain alpha 5 days a week On cycle to protect libido when ur running 4-ad with it? im pretty sure the 4-ad would keep ur libido up and why arent u running the sustain in ur pct? or did u just not list it in ur pct list? also i thought sustain is only used like EOD on cycle?

Really? I thought the 4-AD would more be better served against lethargy. And I definitely intend to use SA in PCT, I must have omitted that. But like I said, I'm very open to suggestions.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

never heard of lethargy from tren but the 4-ad should keep ur libido up since it converts to test. thats one of the reasons for stacking 4-ad along with reducing lethargy is because the conversion to test. i could be wrong tho but i think the 4-ad would keep ur libido going stronger then before probably

 

[ex-tightend83]

never heard of lethargy from tren but the 4-ad should keep ur libido up since it converts to test. thats one of the reasons for stacking 4-ad along with reducing lethargy is because the conversion to test. i could be wrong tho but i think the 4-ad would keep ur libido going stronger then before probably

I'm going to find out one way or the other, lol!!! Thanks for your input. Anyone else wanna chme in on this?

 

[bowtie]

I'm 4 weeks in on 1T-Tren and Animal Test, so far I haven't seen much change in strength. I've gained 7 lbs, but I've also upped my calories quite a bit. I'm eating very clean and training 5 days a week. Not much in sides... Hopefully I'll see some positives soon.

 

[ex-tightend83]

I would say that 7 lbs in four weeks is pretty good. Are you what is considered a hardgainer? Have you done PHs before?

 

[bradleywiens]

In for sure.

As for the 4-AD, my libido was great my entire cycle, and I had zero lethargy.
I also would definitely use SA as a part of your PCT as opposed to on cycle.

 

[ex-tightend83]

In for sure.

As for the 4-AD, my libido was great my entire cycle, and I had zero lethargy.
I also would definitely use SA as a part of your PCT as opposed to on cycle.

I'll definitely do that. As you like to say, "Good times!" Glad to have you on board.

 

[bowtie]

I would say that 7 lbs in four weeks is pretty good. Are you what is considered a hardgainer? Have you done PHs before?

My bf % has gone up 2% of those 7-8 lbs, but like I said...I stared eating quite a bit more food...so it's hard to say if it's the ph or the extra calories...

First go round with PH.

 

[bulldogz]

late, but in for the ride and results...good luck brotha and sfw..!!

yeah, the 4ad should be good for libido and reduce lethargy...no need for the SA while on cycle if your stackin the tren with 4ad...keep SA for pct

 

[ex-tightend83]

late, but in for the ride and results...good luck brotha and sfw..!!

yeah, the 4ad should be good for libido and reduce lethargy...no need for the SA while on cycle if your stackin the tren with 4ad...keep SA for pct

Will do...thanx and glad to have ya!!!

 

[ex-tightend83]

Day 1

Well, today didn't start off too hot because I spent most of the day in the hospital with my son (he's an asthmatic), so I didn't get a chance to work out. Everything's fine, however, so I will be in the gym first thing tomorrow morning.

I did, however, get a chance to take the supps...and let me tell you, it was quite an experience. The 4-AD was OK, tasted a bit like Scope. The Tren LV I decided, for some reason, to take STRAIGHT, and OH, MY GOD...I almost GAGGED! Vanilla ice cream flavor, huh? RIIIIIIIGHT. I made a serious beeline for some water after downing that. And it BURNED, a sign that it's really Tren.

No real effects yet, but I can tell I'm going to have to seriously watch myself and my temper on these supps. Like I said before, trouble seems to find me when I'm out and about. My Eagles got their asses kicked by the Cowpunks yesterday, but I still insisted on wearing my jersey and sideline hoodie. Most people saw the look on my face and didn't say anything, but this one dude (a bus driver) when I got on, said to me, "You need to take that s--t off!" Now why did he say that? I glared at him and replied, "You can cheer for who you want, but don't ever tell me what to wear, dude. We're going to have some serious problems if you do. And by the way, if this Eagles gear bothers you so much, perhaps you'd like to try to take it off of me. If not, then shut the f*ck up!" :bryce: And I was literally shaking mad when I said it. Luckily, he clammed up and kept driving and there was no further incident, but when I sat down, the whole bus was eerily quiet until some dude I know leaned over and said to me, "Look, man, I know you used to play for them and you're still a huge fan and all, but you have to expect that. Now I agree with you on someone not telling what to wear, but be prepared!" I just nodded my head as I was trying not to snap. Sheesh! Gotta go food shopping tomorrow after I leave the gym to pick up some more grub for a couple of weeks.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

The taste of prohormones like tren and 4-AD are extremely difficult to mask even with flavoring agents. Just have something sweet to wash them down and the taste will disappear quickly. Also people have a tendency to get use to them...sort of like an acquired taste.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Day 2: WOW!!!

This is interesting...

Worked out at 6:30 AM. I worked chest and triceps. The pump I got was decent, but I was amazed at the seemingly immediate strength and endurance gain I experienced. Remember, my left shoulder is only about 50-60%, but I still managed to bench in the 300s, something I wouldn't have even thought about trying a few weeks ago. Also, after such a long layoff, I would usually be gassed about halfway through my workout. My energy was there; I could have gone another 45 minutes. Amazing! Hopefully, this was not some "placebo effect," but I definitely felt SOMETHING. I was cautious with my movements because of my shoulder, and I definitely felt it, but it didn't really hurt per se; it was more like a dull ache, letting me know it was there. I could easily have gone up with the weights I used, but this was a "dress rehearsal" in my mind. We'll see how I feel tomorrow, but I am most definitely impressed with this combo so far...and I'm not one who is easily impressed.

Supps taken: 2 servings Incarnate, 2x1ml 4-AD, 2x2ml Tren LV (will take the third dose later on), Animal Pak, No-Doz (caffeine before workout), Xtend, glutamine, ON Hydrowhey, Fish Oils, Vitamins C, D, E, CEL Cycle Assist (had some left over, so I decided to use it).

I went food shopping, and I'm snacking now on some cottage cheese (ugh, looks like this is an ACQUIRED taste), jazzed up with some cinnamon and apple butter.

Libido seems fine, I'll find out tonight when this girl comes over. No lethargy or anything else to speak of. Recovery seems great so far.

I'm liking this.

Starting weight this morning: 335.25 lbs.

 

[bulldogz]

sounds like the tren lv/4ad stack is money!

 

[Royd The Noyd]

How soon before you workout are you dosing each?

Also if you dont like cottage cheese a possible replacement is greek yogurt. Similar macro profile if I remember correctly. ***e is my favorite brand...

 

[ex-tightend83]

How soon before you workout are you dosing each?

Also if you dont like cottage cheese a possible replacement is greek yogurt. Similar macro profile if I remember correctly. ***e is my favorite brand...

I dosed them about an hour or so before my workout.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I dosed them about an hour or so before my workout.

Nice. That's pretty much perfect.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Nice. That's pretty much perfect.

I figured as much. But thanks for confirming. I want to get the most possible out of this.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Day 3

My shoulder is sore, but not like it's been in the past the day after a chest workout, so that is definitely progress. I worked legs today, and while I was gassed towards the end of the workout, the recovery properties of this stack are undeniable. Weights were decent, not great, but then again, I'm coming off a long layoff.

Libido seems to be OK so far, if last night was any evidence. I use some, uh, ancillary supps anyway for this area, but neither the girl nor I was disappointed.

I have one hell of a headache right now, and had a slight one yesterday...hmm. Also, this combo seems to have given me the sh*ts, but sometimes when I start a new stack, that happens...so I'm not putting too much into that. The biggest challenge so far has been shoveling in more calories, which, for my weight, isn't easy to do.

I haven't snapped on anyone today, but then again, I was only outside briefly.

Today's Meals/Supps:

4:45 am (wake-up): arginine, Xtend, glutamine, Incarnate

5:30 am (pre-workout): 30 g whey protein shake, oatmeal, 2 caps No-Doz, Animal Nitro

During Workout: Gatorade w/Glutamine
7:45 am (post-workout): 60g Protein shake in Gatorade w/Glutamine and Xtend

8:45 am: 6 eggs with ricotta cheese, oatmeal, banana w/peanut butter, 24g protein shake in 2% milk

11am: Protein shake, whole wheat crackers, fish oils, Animal Pak

Noon: 1 ml 4-AD, 2ml Tren LV

1:30 pm: 2 turkey and cheese sandwiches on wheat bread, green beans, salad with oil and vinegar dressing

4pm: cottage cheese with sliced pineapple, Animal Pak, fish oils

6pm: 2ml Tren LV

7pm : Dinner will be 12 0z. steak, large sweet potato, broccoli and salad with oil and vinegar dressing, fish oils

9:30 pm: Before bed meal will be 50g protein shake, banana, mixed nuts.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

You eat a lot. I'm jealous.

 

[ex-tightend83]

You eat a lot. I'm jealous.

LOL, don't I have to, to support my bodyweight and to gain? Trust me, it isn't always fun. I like eating, but not necessarily HAVING to eat. There's a difference.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Yeah no doubt. You are a big one so I can see why you need all those cals.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Day 4

I'm sore as hell all over...but that's a good thing, No hurt, no BIG SHIRT! 4:45 came early as hell this morning (or so it seemed), but I just groaned and got out of bed. After all, I did commit to this (and spent over $600 as well!).

Worked shoulders and traps today, kept weights fairly low, but, like I said, this week has been sort of a "dress rehearsal." I wanted to see how much I could get away with without killing my shoulder. My shoulder hurts now, but not too bad.

Nothing new to report so far, pump is decent, I even seem to get a slight pump when eating (?). Libido is OK, energy is good.

Meals/Supps:

4:45am: 30 g Protein shake w/Xtend and Glutamine, Animal Nitro, 2 caps No-Doz, 3 caps Incarnate, 2ml Tren LV, 1ml 4-AD.

Workout: Powerade w/Glutamine

Postworkout: Gatorade w/ 60g whey protein, Xtend, glutamine, 3 caps Incarnate

8:30am: 5 eggs with 2% milk, oatmeal with walnuts and raisins, 30 g protein shake, Animal Pak, water, fish oils, Vitamin C,D,E.

9:30 am: 1 serving Cycle Assist

11am: 8 oz. cottage cheese with pineapple and cinnamon, 14 whole-wheat crackers, water

1:30 pm: 2 tuna sandwiches with whole-wheat bread and low-fat mayo, 1 can green beans, Animal Pak, water

3pm: 2 ml Tren LV, 1 ml 4-AD

4pm: 40g protein shake, oatmeal, water, fish oils

6pm: Dinner will be: 10 oz 93% lean ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, salad with red wine and olive oil dressing, water

7pm: 1 serving Cycle Assist

Bedtime snack will be: medium sweet potato, casein protein, 2% milk.

 

[bulldogz]

holy f v c k...you spent 6 hundo on this whole cycle...

anyway...sounds like your doing great...keep sfw bro..!!

 

[ex-tightend83]

Yeah...imagine if I knew anything about real gear and where to get it what I could have gotten for that $600...oh, well, it was a Xmas present from the GF. So far it seems to be worth the money. I have no complaints.

 

[bulldogz]

Yeah...imagine if I knew anything about real gear and where to get it what I could have gotten for that $600...oh, well, it was a Xmas present from the GF. So far it seems to be worth the money. I have no complaints.

That's a nice xmas present from your girl...

Yeah, tren and 4ad stack sound and looks like a great stack/cycle imo...if you have enough 4ad maybe up the dosage unless you feel the 2ml (I believe) is doing well for you...

 

[dumbhick3]

I am thinking about this stack as well. I am curious as to what the upper limit of reasonable is for the 4AD, esp. for androgenic support with the TREN.

Results look good so far...subbed.

 

[ex-tightend83]

That's a nice xmas present from your girl...

Yeah, tren and 4ad stack sound and looks like a great stack/cycle imo...if you have enough 4ad maybe up the dosage unless you feel the 2ml (I believe) is doing well for you...

I'm gonna up the dosage to 3 one-ml servings starting Monday. Since I have 3 bottles of 4-AD UTT XL, I should have enough.

 

[ex-tightend83]

I believe this was already answered in my very first post.

 

[bulldogz]

sounds like I might have a new stack comin my way since you're doin well on this one...yessir...

 

[ex-tightend83]

Day 8

Weight: 336.75 lbs (+1.50 lbs)

Workout: Chest/Triceps

I upped the 4-AD dosage today. For the next two weeks, dosage will be 1 ml 3x daily. I will re-assess in week 4 and may up to 1.5 ml. Tren LV dosage will remain the same for the time being. I also experimented with dosing before and after my workout, just to see the effects. I'll keep you posted. Starting next week, I may also incorporate two-a-days to further take advantage of these, um, supps.

Temper is in full pissed-off mode, not helped by the fact that my Philadelphia Pigeons (ne Eagles) went belly-up this weekend. Almost f*cked up two fools, one yesterday and one more today. This idiot on the bus (yesterday) didn't think I could hear him because I had my iPod on and I was taking my GF lunch that I had cooked for her. I have a habit of turning the music off when I get up to get off public transportation because I want to know what's going on, call me paranoid if you want. Anyway, I'm sure he assumed I couldn't hear him because I still had my headphones on and he remarked, "You need to take that nut-ass jacket off!" I immediately turned to him and said, "Yo, my man, what did you say?" Shocked, he replied, "I ain't say nothin'." I said, "You're a liar AND a bitch. You said, 'You need to take that nut-ass jacket off!' Well, let me tell you this, home sh*t. If what I'm wearing bothers you so much, how about you take it off of me?" And I got right in his face. He didn't say anything further, so I said, "That's what the f*ck I thought! Anyone else?" Getting no reply, I got off the bus. Today, I was coming from the gym and getting off the trolley when some dude a little older than me grabbed my arm and said, "You want to burn that jersey and jacket, don't you?" I gave him the death glare and said, "Do you know me? 'Cuz smart people who don't don't touch me." He started babbling about not taking it personal and I cut him off, saying, "It's not even about the game. You took it upon yourself to touch me, which is not smart if you don't know me, which you obviously don't. Let me warn you by telling you if that you put your hand on me again, you're gonna get it back in pieces. Make your choice wisely. There's no more rap." Sheesh. It's gonna be one hell of an offseason, 'cuz I'm not about to stop wearing my gear. Meals and supps today were kind of rushed, because I overslept and it just threw my whole schedule off.

Libido is still fine, actually I've been getting random wood (a nice bonus!).

Body comp seems to be slowly changing. My GF says I look a little bigger and she can tell I'm ON because I'm meaner. I've also started putting 20 g of whey protein in my workout Powerade/Gatorade to keep things anabolic...a little trick I found in an old issue of Muscle and Fitness. On to tomorrow...

 

[dumbhick3]

"Do you know me? 'Cuz smart people who don't don't touch me."

That is classic. I use public transit all the time, and what I can't stand more than anything is people on the subway pushing into me/touching me/pushing their bags into my elbow/etc (when they can help it) or trying to run over me when we are getting off at the same stop (it doesn't work). Being on cycle just makes it worse for me. It's like being trapped in a sardine can full of morons sometimes. I like my "elevator space"-give me at least 2-3 feet in all directions!

Keep rocking your clothes (I know you will). People need to mind their own d@mn business. I don't know why anyone would talk trash about someone as large as you when you are within earshot of them, headphones or not-seems unwise.

I don't know if you've ran Tren before, you might have already said so, but if not, the aggression can be pretty serious. So I'm not too surprised at what you describe given the $hit that people are throwing at you.

That sux about Philly. I wanted to see them move on this year.

Keep us posted on the higher 4AD doses-you've got me curious about how high it can go and still have the positives > negatives.

 

[AtomicFox]

late, but in for the ride and results...good luck brotha and sfw..!!

yeah, the 4ad should be good for libido and reduce lethargy...no need for the SA while on cycle if your stackin the tren with 4ad...keep SA for pct

Actually PP recommends a 3on/3off protocol for SA while cycling. By doing so it is believed that you can keep your testes active and therefore make recovery much easier.

I am currently using their 1-T Liqua-vade with Cynostane and the 3/3 protocol for SA.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Actually PP recommends a 3on/3off protocol for SA while cycling. By doing so it is believed that you can keep your testes active and therefore make recovery much easier.

I am currently using their 1-T Liqua-vade with Cynostane and the 3/3 protocol for SA.

Interesting...I got damn near roasted when suggesting this protocol earlier in my thread. Anyway, how's that working for ya? And what the hell is Cynostane and who makes it?

 

[bulldogz]

Actually PP recommends a 3on/3off protocol for SA while cycling. By doing so it is believed that you can keep your testes active and therefore make recovery much easier.

I am currently using their 1-T Liqua-vade with Cynostane and the 3/3 protocol for SA.

yeah, but that is if he wasn't runnin 4ad on cycle, which he is...that's why he shouldn't get shut down as much while 4ad is in cycle...

SA would be great if he were just doing the tren by itself

 

[dumbhick3]

What PP recommends for SA kind of varies by what you are trying to achieve. I think 5 on/2 off was recommended in their forums for libido support on cycle while 3on/3off is probably sufficient for helping mitigate shutdown on cycle (as the previous poster mentioned). They recommend 5/2 in all cases for PCT if using their TRS approach.

The TREN LV will be even more suppressive than the 1T Tren topical which was bad enough. Since you are using 4AD and have no libido problems, I think that it may be worth getting an extra bottle of SA and starting it in week 3 of your cycle at 3on/3off (and then 5/2 in PCT). You'll probably have 1/2 a bottle of SA leftover for use in a future cycle if you go this route. Otherwise, you could nix the on cycle SA and stick with 1 bottle for PCT.

You don't have to use SA on cycle, esp since you are using 4AD, but it may help with the TREN LV shutdown which is likely to be major. It's your call and opinions vary as you can see from this thread. Most of what I've read suggests using some SA on cycle (the PP folks, but they make the product of course), but if I could get away with not using it during my next cycle, then I probably would skip it (now I am unsure myself). Perhaps some of the earlier posters will chime back in with their thoughts on 4AD and SA on cycle.

Cynostane is a prosteroid similar on paper to epistane/havoc (an epithol-type steroid), but the feedback on it hasn't been stellar so far. I don't know exactly how similar it is to epistane, but epistane can be had for half as much money, and works well with TREN. It was made by Anabolic Innovations (AI) and was a short run item meaning they sold out and discontinued it almost immediately. There are still plenty of places to buy a bottle of it, but I don't think it is worth $35-$40/bottle.

 

[bulldogz]

I'm just sayin...save yourself $50 or whatever a bottle of SA cost since you have 4ad, and you have plenty of it.

Just bump up the 4ad dosage if need be...4ad coverts to test so you should be good...save the SA for pct...if you didn't have the 4ad in your cycle, then yes...SA would be needed on cycle

 

[AtomicFox]

I'm just sayin...save yourself $50 or whatever a bottle of SA cost since you have 4ad, and you have plenty of it.

Just bump up the 4ad dosage if need be...4ad coverts to test so you should be good...save the SA for pct...if you didn't have the 4ad in your cycle, then yes...SA would be needed on cycle

In my opinion I would rather spend the money and make recovery easier.

The 5/2 protocol is for PCT and the 3/3 is during the cycle.

Since I do not have bloodworks I can't say for sure but my testicles does seem to increase in size when using it. Libido is good too.

As dumbhick said it is comparable to Hdrol/epi. Produces lean gains with low androgenic side effects therefore it does not produce a lot of strength gains and I believe that is the reason some people don't find it satisfying.

I am concerned about hair loss that is why I chose Cynostane =)

 

[ex-tightend83]

In my opinion I would rather spend the money and make recovery easier.

The 5/2 protocol is for PCT and the 3/3 is during the cycle.

Since I do not have bloodworks I can't say for sure but my testicles does seem to increase in size when using it. Libido is good too.

As dumbhick said it is comparable to Hdrol/epi. Produces lean gains with low androgenic side effects therefore it does not produce a lot of strength gains and I believe that is the reason some people don't find it satisfying.

I am concerned about hair loss that is why I chose Cynostane =)

I'll start the 3/3 protocol next Monday. I'd rather be safe than sorry. As a side note, what in your opinion would be an example of a good strength cycle? I mean, I've had some strength gain, but I'm sure most of it is "muscle memory," since I'm coming off a layoff.