My M1,4ADD log

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  1. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    This is intresting guys. It seems like you guys are experiencing more estrogen sides then I am with M4AD. Don't take offense, Just an observation. I wonder if Bobo is following this. Hmmm.... I'm not saying that M4AD is better,likely the opposite is true. Just that I'm suprised because the naysayers at my thread would have you think that I should be shopping for a bra by now.

    Look what I said in your thread. I said people experienced more bloat than expected on this substance. Thats straight from "Bruce".

    Consdiering you need around 50-100mg/day of methyl test to see results compared to about 25-30mg of D-bol, this is exactly what should happen. Just from the first few days on M1,4diol the resuklts have been better than M4AD.
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    This m1,4diol is some exciting stuff!!
    Keep the updates coming.

    So what is the conversion of this stuff to dbol? If you take in 30mg ed then how much dbol does that equate to?
  3. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    No clue. Almost all the converiosn numbers are speculative. In this case, nobody knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Look what I said in your thread. I said people experienced more bloat than expected on this substance. Thats straight from "Bruce".

    Consdiering you need around 50-100mg/day of methyl test to see results compared to about 25-30mg of D-bol, this is exactly what should happen. Just from the first few days on M1,4diol the resuklts have been better than M4AD.
    I never implied that M4AD would be better than M1,4. Let me ask you something. Lets say That the conversion rate for M4AD is 15% to methyl test.Fine. At 40mg/day that would yield 4.5 mg of methyl test. 80 mg/day would yield 9mg of methyl test. Follow me? So lets say 20% of that becomes Methyl E. That would amount to not even 2mg of methyl E a day. The rest of the Methyl 4AD has its own anabolic properties and is also unaffected by arematase Right? I'm serious I would like to know what you think about this. If I am completely wrong here,let me know. If my math is wrong correct me. If you know of studdies that have clearer numbers then enlighten me.I would love to know what Bruce or Pat would say. All I can say for sure is that I have Zero estrogenic sides so far. My waist actually went down 1/4". My blood pressure is unchanged and I feel great.
  5. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    I never implied that M4AD would be better than M1,4. Let me ask you something. Lets say That the conversion rate for M4AD is 15% to methyl test.Fine. At 40mg/day that would yield 4.5 mg of methyl test. 80 mg/day would yield 9mg of methyl test. Follow me? So lets say 20% of that becomes Methyl E. That would amount to not even 2mg of methyl E a day. The rest of the Methyl 4AD has its own anabolic properties and is also unaffected by arematase Right? I'm serious I would like to know what you think about this. If I am completely wrong here,let me know. If my math is wrong correct me. If you know of studdies that have clearer numbers then enlighten me.I would love to know what Bruce or Pat would say. All I can say for sure is that I have Zero estrogenic sides so far. My waist actually went down 1/4". My blood pressure is unchanged and I feel great.

    Yes you are right in your conversions. If the conversion is that low then you don't have to worry about the side effects. But then that is also proportional to the anabolic effects (which means again you need a high dose). THe substance itself has already been tested in assays (methyl test) and the estrogenic sides/anabolic ratio is very high. Thats just how it works. Most of the studies and numbers are in the physical literature (old texts from the 50's and 60s) If your not getting many estrogenic sides then your not getting much of an anabolic effect. Thats why I said from the beginning your 2lbs could easily just be water retention (which would increase muscle glyocgen giving the appearance of a leaner look). People often say they look leaner when first shooting insulin because of the increased glycogen storage. That increase in glyocgen storage also leads to increased strength. With methyl test you needed a minimum of 50mg/day, so if nobody knows exactly what the rate of conersion is, nobody knows for sure how much you actually need. I agree Pat and Bruce would know much more about this (especially Pat) Now if you look at the methyl 4AD just by itself, you could have efects from that but its also a general rule that methyalting a compound reduces its androgenic activity. Thats why many peopel do not like this substance because your weakening the overall 4AD while increasing the side effects by methylating it.

    Serisouly your mood and effects sounds like a very low dose of test. This is the same type of response you hear HRT patients give.
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  6. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    You have to look at these things in perspective. Considering what M4AD should convert into and the pharmacology of such hormone you should be getting more than 2lbs/week. I can get 10lb on D-bol easy in the first week and that aromtizes half of what methyl test does. Drol is even better than that (I'm on it now). If you think the results form your first week are good, then never take Drol because you will NEVER want to come off. You virtually explode with size and strength (people look at you like a freak). In all cases you should be getting more gains in size and strenght if you have the doses right (which is tough to gauge since nobody knows the conversion numbers). That is why M1,4 diol sounds much better because they are already seeing D-bol like effects in the first few days. Methylated substances are fast acting hormones. If you can get the saem results from a trandsermal (which is NOT fast acting) then that particulr methylated substance is not that great. Thats all I'm saying and when you take in all these factors, it is a logical conclusion.
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    Thanks for letting me bounce that off you. I do agree withyou in some instances.1 M1,4 is a better compound overall. 2. A higher dose is likely necesary for a decent effect. The point of me testing this was not to see if it would be better than 1,4 It was to see if it had any value itself. I think it could. I think a lot of guys would like to know if the sides are as bad as some say they will be, and if there is a threshold where the sides will outweigh the gains.That is really the goal of this cycle for me.I also agree with you on one more thing. Given that a higher dose is necesary for good gains,There is still the issue of liver stress.So taking more is probably not as "safe" as taking less M1,4. However, I got 4 bottles so I want to learn as much as possible from this cycle so mabey other guys can make a more informed decision. And if I make some decent gains in the process, then all will not be lost. thanks for the stimulating dabate. Can we still be friends?
  8. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    As I said from the beginning I never criticized you, just the susbtance. I don't think your an idiot for trying it as long as you know why certain things work. There is no reason for people to get defensive of what they take unless they are uniformed sheep and just trying it because its "new" or some company like VPX says its good. I don't think you are and never did. It is quite ironic that VPX is marketing this one too. Coincidence? I think not

    Basically to get a real good benefit of this substance just use high doses with Nolva everyday and you should be fine. Wiht both these susbtances Nolva is defiently recommened because your basically getting an AAS related metabolite (17 methyl E2) form a PH. So in terms of protection you should look at this AS an AAS. For the most part I tihnk everyone using this now is doing so but newbies most likely won't know.
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    That's cool. It's all good then. Thanks.
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    I am glad you could test it, like i said i was to busy with methyl-dien to give this one a run. Although adding a methyl can decrease its androgenic qualities in some cases it increases its anabolic properties while making it oral active. if 4 ad is intrinsic and methylating it increases its anabolic properties and lowers its androgenic properties then by all means that makes this better then regular methyl-test. I dont think it will be as good as methyl-14addiol but I never thought it would. I thought it might be good for those few people who lik eto try different thing sout, and if it is more anabolic and less androgenic although not as strong as some other phs then it will still worth a shot.
    I dont think all the new phs to come out should have a min anabolic profile of 1000, it will be good to get a few that are in the 200-600 range, plus not everyone who wants to use a trans and isntready toinject this might be a good alternative for them.

    But Bobo couldnt have said it better with the thought that most of these new PHs should be considered AAS, this way you are always prepared for the whole cycle.
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    Explained last night that I would wait till tonight to to dose nolva. After my staying up late last night cuz I didn't have to go into work or school today, I noticed even more puffiness in my nipples around 3:00am or so. So I dosed 10mg of nolva then. Woke up this morning and was actually pretty hard again. But, now at 7:30pm tonight, I have collected a lot more water already. So, I'm just gonna stick with 10mg ed unless I see that for some reason I wouldn't need it on a particular day. So keep a good watch sifu...
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    Well I know what you are saying. But estrogen is our friend when it comes to bulking. I could really care less about holding some water. I told sledge when he hooked me up I would run it to the true effect. Now if my nips start itching or looking funny, then I will dose the nolva, if not then I won't.

    Today was my day off from lifting. I coached my normal wrestling class today, but I didn't really participate, since I wanted a complete day off.

    But I still feel great, and the moods are good, as is the constant pump. For some reason I am not bloated today, maybe it was because I ate a potatoe yesterday, they sometimes do that to me.
  13. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
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    I always thought that if gyno symptoms appear you dose 40 mg nolva until gyno subsides, then cut the dose down to 20mg, then 10mg each day as a sort of "maintenance". Maybe that's only if the gyno hit's you pretty hard???
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    That's what I was thinking as well. Somewhere Bobo posted about how he had run it before. But doing a search under his or Chemos name is just to much damn searching for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    I always thought that if gyno symptoms appear you dose 40 mg nolva until gyno subsides, then cut the dose down to 20mg, then 10mg each day as a sort of "maintenance". Maybe that's only if the gyno hit's you pretty hard???
    It has been said that the consensus would run nolva @ 20-30mg ed and until a few days after the initial day that the problem subsides. And for best results use in conjunction with either arimidex or proviron so the onset of future problems will be slower-acting.

    I chose 10mg due to the actual severity of my symptoms. This is not a factoid for everyone whose gonna use this compound, just the reasoning that I came up with based on MY OWN BODY. I know how my body was before, and I know how it is now. If problems either kept up today, or got worse for that matter, I would have decided to increase my dose on it, thats all. But 10mg seemed to do the trick, so thats what I will stay with for now.
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    any updates? How much total have you guys gained? How about total strength? How about body comp?

    I only ask since i should be recieving my m1,4diol and m5aa cycle within the next couple days
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    Well today is day six for me. I will weigh in tommorow, I only weigh in every seven days, just because weight fluctuates so much. As for strength, I am up on everything. Like I said I don't follow a bodybuilding routine, but all of my lifts are up. And I broke the three bolts in half that were holding up one of the heavy bags in my school, so strength is definately up.

    As for body comp. I was bloated really bad yesterday, but that was it. I know Jergo has had some bloating.

    I am eating totoally clean too, so maybe that is some of it.

    You will like that stack. Strength should go way up on that. What doses are you going to run?
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    jergo so you're gonna do 10mg of nolva for the rest of your diol cycle? how much of the m1/4d are you taking? again, what weight gains are you guys getting on this or strength, any numbers?
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    sifu weights are up? more so then on any other prohormone, bench from 100 to 110lbs or what
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    sledge is gonna have me start with 30mg/m1,4 and 20mg/m5aa and we're gonna take it from there. He wants me to run a longer cycle, possibly 6 weeks. We'll see how it goes, i'm not one to encounter many side effects and i will also be getting liver protectants.
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    I've only had two workouts since I've started 4 days ago. The two sessions I've had were back/bi's, and legs/deads. All exc. went up in strength and/or endurance. What exc. really surprised me was BB curls. Those usually don't move up that fast. The other day I added on 10 more lbs. along with 8 more reps. Thursday will be my first chest workout, so I'll be able to really evaluate it then, especially since that will be day 7 for me.

    Again body comp. among those other things can't really be evaluated yet, I only have a 3 day split and I'm not doing any cardio right now. This cycle is for bulk, nothing else. I could care less about body comp. changes at the moment. Sifu would be better to ask about that since he's cutting w/ it.

    As for weight gain, I'm sure I've put on about 5 or so lbs. of water. I don't have a problem gaining weight, just good weight. I rarely ever weigh myself anymore, I judge by the mirror mostly and tape, caliper readings. I'll weight in for you guys on Sunday or something.
  22. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Unless you start forming lumps (usually smaller than pea size) under and around the nipple you should be ok. Even if you do develop that just use Nolva and they should subside. Nolva won't reduce gains that much since they usually block receptors locally and don't reduce circulating estrogen that much. Arimidex and Letro on the other hand will effect gians as they block the aromatization all together (not totally but a very good amount).

    Sounds like things are going well and the aromatization is occurring as expected.
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    Ya I expected what is happening. I am not complaining, as I said before some estrogen in your body, is a bulkers best friend.
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    You mentioned on the other thread that comparing M1,4AD and 1,4AD was like comparing apples and oranges because M1,4AD is in another league. What was your dosing of 1,4AD?
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    900mg a day. What I mean is that they are completely different compounds. One is for cutting, the other is for bulking. At least for me that is.
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    I see. I haven't been following M1,4AD that much so I don't know much about it. I think what you beta testers are doing is great because I'd like to learn more about this product and try it at some point in the future. It sounds awesome and I hope it continues to work for you.
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    Sifu, You weigh in yet? I'm on the edge of my seat here.
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    Alright all you cult followers. I have a few days off from work, so I decided to stop over at my old gym for a few today. I didn't workout I just wanted to say hi to the owner and I weighed myself on their scale for fun cuz me and this other dude was B.S.'ing. My weight is up to 242lbs. Now, there is no doubt in my mind that this is ALL water. I see no noticeable difference in the mirror except the bloat on my abs. Also, I feel very soft about 2-3 hours after I take my first AM dose. On top of that, I will measure say my arms, they show almost a 1/2" increase, but they are soft at the touch compared to before I started the cycle. I must say, that after this next week, and I still have no "noticeable" muscle gains, i won't consider this a good compound. All this bloat will not be worth it, that is, if I don't put on at least a 2:1 ratio of water to muscle. I am running nolva at 10mg for the past couple days. I don't seem to have any more trouble with my nipples, but will continue to run for a safe measure.
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    ok so far so good, keep us posted I plan on releasing this tomorrow or th enext day. Most people take results from dbol over a 6 weesk period, so give it some tim eto start working. Thanks guys fopr testing these compounds for me.
  30. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Just as DS said, so far so good. Water is what you want and what you should be getting in the first week or two. Then comes strength, and then comes size.
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    Hey sifu, bit of a private question, but are you constipated at all? I've been drinking metamucil like its godamn water and I can only seem to push out tator tot sized fudge pieces every 5-6 hours. Last night I woke up with the most horrible cramps and I almost started urling. I'm not eating or drinking anything different since before this, and I can't figure this $hit out. (literally) You'd think that the metamucil would do something, but I'm in the dark on this one.
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    No constipation for me. I guess I am the opposite. I love this product, I have bloat but not badly. I am making good strength gains, and as for muscle gains well it has only been seven days. I will weigh in tonight and post it for everyone to know.

    I am liking the product a lot, and I am not taking any thing else at the moment.
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    Ok Bobo, sounds good then. I guess its following its planned route. Looking forward to the next weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifu
    No constipation for me. I guess I am the opposite. I love this product, I have bloat but not badly. I am making good strength gains, and as for muscle gains well it has only been seven days. I will weigh in tonight and post it for everyone to know.

    I am liking the product a lot, and I am not taking any thing else at the moment.
    Hmm....well, I hope it clears out quickly. Glad things are goin good for you, I should be having a nice chest workout come tomorrow.
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    Deadlifts for me in about ten minutes, then 30 minutes on the heavy bag.
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    your 30 min ended a LONG time ago bro...so tell me about any strength gains if any
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    Well my deadlift went up twenty pounds on my last set of three. My strength is definately up on this. I weighed in, and I am the exact same weight, which is really suprising. I have a total body composition change, so I know I have lost some fat, and I am swole. Not to mention that I have tripled my cardio getting ready for my tournament season, and started a cutting diet. So that should tell you how strong this product is. For me at least.
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    How long are you guys running this?


    I saw Sifu mentioned somewhere in the range of 3 weeks..what about you Jergo???
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    Well I am running it until my two bottles is gone. Sledge said it should be four to five weeks.
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    YESS!!!!!!!! I HAVE SHAT!!!! Nice healthy one too......umm....sorry, lol. Man, that had me in a $hitty mood, no pun intended.....

    Sweet, now that I have that out of the way, I can get siked for my workout comin' up. I'll be trying to run this for at least 3-4 weeks, BUT, I'm trying to plan around my spring break vacation coming up, so I have to sit down and figure it out. I don't wanna have to worry about PCT, drinking, etc.

    I'll be training today in an hour or so, will post back afterwards.
  

  
 

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