My M1,4ADD log

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    I had a awesome workout, everyone asking me what I am on. Which is funny, because I'm not that big. But anyways the diet is good, the training is great, and the swelling is starting to real come out.

    It is going great so far. Oh ya and my sense of well being is really good. Feels like when I did AAS, but that was over 8 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sifu
    It is going great so far. Oh ya and my sense of well being is really good. Feels like when I did AAS, but that was over 8 years ago.

    Bump on that. Only other stuff I've done has been M1T, 1T, 4AD, and 1, 4 dione. And I feel moodwise the best of any of 'em. I'm looking forward to the upcoming weeks, only thing I'm concerned about is estro bloat, and the ca$h I'm gonna have to fork over at the end of this cycle for bloodwork. I just found out I lost my health insurance and I'm not too happy about that. Hopefully this cycle will be worth it....
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    Ya the bloat is kicking in for me.
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    Yeah bro, as much as I hate to do it, I think I'm going to have to dose some nolva tomorrow night. My nipples are starting to look way too puffy. I give a **** about everything else, but the nips aren't something to mess with. Its pretty weird, earlier today it was fine, now at 1:00 am, they're looking pretty different. Ah well......
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    It's not really my nips, but I got puffy really bad over just the last couple hours. What are you going to dose the nolva at?


    I'll probably wait, but I have a bodyfat test this month with the military, so I don't want to be to bloated.
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    Hmmm...good question. Dunno, probably around 10 or so? I don't think it would need 20 yet, so I don't wanna go overkill, ya know? Yeah, I'll prob dose 10mg as soon as needed, then access how I'm doing. I'll let you know when and then after I do it.
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    Ya I am going to wait. Estrogen is good for growth, but like I said I don't want to much water. It is funny at 20mg a day, I had almost none, I went to 30mg today, and bam here comes the bloat.

    10 sounds about right for the nolva, but I am not sure.
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    This is intresting guys. It seems like you guys are experiencing more estrogen sides then I am with M4AD. Don't take offense, Just an observation. I wonder if Bobo is following this. Hmmm.... I'm not saying that M4AD is better,likely the opposite is true. Just that I'm suprised because the naysayers at my thread would have you think that I should be shopping for a bra by now.
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    I know what you are saying.

    Basically it is giving the same effects as Dbol. Which is ok. My strength is going through the roof and I am swelling up, but I am bloating as well. Oh well, not much to do about it, I want to lay off the nolva for now, if it gets out of hand, at least I have it.


    Other than that there are no sides, it has been fabulous so far.
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    Sounds good. Looks like M1,4 gets a thumbs up. No suprise there. The verdict is still out on M4AD IMHO.
  11. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    This is intresting guys. It seems like you guys are experiencing more estrogen sides then I am with M4AD. Don't take offense, Just an observation. I wonder if Bobo is following this. Hmmm.... I'm not saying that M4AD is better,likely the opposite is true. Just that I'm suprised because the naysayers at my thread would have you think that I should be shopping for a bra by now.

    Look what I said in your thread. I said people experienced more bloat than expected on this substance. Thats straight from "Bruce".

    Consdiering you need around 50-100mg/day of methyl test to see results compared to about 25-30mg of D-bol, this is exactly what should happen. Just from the first few days on M1,4diol the resuklts have been better than M4AD.
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    This m1,4diol is some exciting stuff!!
    Keep the updates coming.

    So what is the conversion of this stuff to dbol? If you take in 30mg ed then how much dbol does that equate to?
  13. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    No clue. Almost all the converiosn numbers are speculative. In this case, nobody knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Look what I said in your thread. I said people experienced more bloat than expected on this substance. Thats straight from "Bruce".

    Consdiering you need around 50-100mg/day of methyl test to see results compared to about 25-30mg of D-bol, this is exactly what should happen. Just from the first few days on M1,4diol the resuklts have been better than M4AD.
    I never implied that M4AD would be better than M1,4. Let me ask you something. Lets say That the conversion rate for M4AD is 15% to methyl test.Fine. At 40mg/day that would yield 4.5 mg of methyl test. 80 mg/day would yield 9mg of methyl test. Follow me? So lets say 20% of that becomes Methyl E. That would amount to not even 2mg of methyl E a day. The rest of the Methyl 4AD has its own anabolic properties and is also unaffected by arematase Right? I'm serious I would like to know what you think about this. If I am completely wrong here,let me know. If my math is wrong correct me. If you know of studdies that have clearer numbers then enlighten me.I would love to know what Bruce or Pat would say. All I can say for sure is that I have Zero estrogenic sides so far. My waist actually went down 1/4". My blood pressure is unchanged and I feel great.
  15. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    I never implied that M4AD would be better than M1,4. Let me ask you something. Lets say That the conversion rate for M4AD is 15% to methyl test.Fine. At 40mg/day that would yield 4.5 mg of methyl test. 80 mg/day would yield 9mg of methyl test. Follow me? So lets say 20% of that becomes Methyl E. That would amount to not even 2mg of methyl E a day. The rest of the Methyl 4AD has its own anabolic properties and is also unaffected by arematase Right? I'm serious I would like to know what you think about this. If I am completely wrong here,let me know. If my math is wrong correct me. If you know of studdies that have clearer numbers then enlighten me.I would love to know what Bruce or Pat would say. All I can say for sure is that I have Zero estrogenic sides so far. My waist actually went down 1/4". My blood pressure is unchanged and I feel great.

    Yes you are right in your conversions. If the conversion is that low then you don't have to worry about the side effects. But then that is also proportional to the anabolic effects (which means again you need a high dose). THe substance itself has already been tested in assays (methyl test) and the estrogenic sides/anabolic ratio is very high. Thats just how it works. Most of the studies and numbers are in the physical literature (old texts from the 50's and 60s) If your not getting many estrogenic sides then your not getting much of an anabolic effect. Thats why I said from the beginning your 2lbs could easily just be water retention (which would increase muscle glyocgen giving the appearance of a leaner look). People often say they look leaner when first shooting insulin because of the increased glycogen storage. That increase in glyocgen storage also leads to increased strength. With methyl test you needed a minimum of 50mg/day, so if nobody knows exactly what the rate of conersion is, nobody knows for sure how much you actually need. I agree Pat and Bruce would know much more about this (especially Pat) Now if you look at the methyl 4AD just by itself, you could have efects from that but its also a general rule that methyalting a compound reduces its androgenic activity. Thats why many peopel do not like this substance because your weakening the overall 4AD while increasing the side effects by methylating it.

    Serisouly your mood and effects sounds like a very low dose of test. This is the same type of response you hear HRT patients give.
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  16. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    You have to look at these things in perspective. Considering what M4AD should convert into and the pharmacology of such hormone you should be getting more than 2lbs/week. I can get 10lb on D-bol easy in the first week and that aromtizes half of what methyl test does. Drol is even better than that (I'm on it now). If you think the results form your first week are good, then never take Drol because you will NEVER want to come off. You virtually explode with size and strength (people look at you like a freak). In all cases you should be getting more gains in size and strenght if you have the doses right (which is tough to gauge since nobody knows the conversion numbers). That is why M1,4 diol sounds much better because they are already seeing D-bol like effects in the first few days. Methylated substances are fast acting hormones. If you can get the saem results from a trandsermal (which is NOT fast acting) then that particulr methylated substance is not that great. Thats all I'm saying and when you take in all these factors, it is a logical conclusion.
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    Thanks for letting me bounce that off you. I do agree withyou in some instances.1 M1,4 is a better compound overall. 2. A higher dose is likely necesary for a decent effect. The point of me testing this was not to see if it would be better than 1,4 It was to see if it had any value itself. I think it could. I think a lot of guys would like to know if the sides are as bad as some say they will be, and if there is a threshold where the sides will outweigh the gains.That is really the goal of this cycle for me.I also agree with you on one more thing. Given that a higher dose is necesary for good gains,There is still the issue of liver stress.So taking more is probably not as "safe" as taking less M1,4. However, I got 4 bottles so I want to learn as much as possible from this cycle so mabey other guys can make a more informed decision. And if I make some decent gains in the process, then all will not be lost. thanks for the stimulating dabate. Can we still be friends?
  18. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    As I said from the beginning I never criticized you, just the susbtance. I don't think your an idiot for trying it as long as you know why certain things work. There is no reason for people to get defensive of what they take unless they are uniformed sheep and just trying it because its "new" or some company like VPX says its good. I don't think you are and never did. It is quite ironic that VPX is marketing this one too. Coincidence? I think not

    Basically to get a real good benefit of this substance just use high doses with Nolva everyday and you should be fine. Wiht both these susbtances Nolva is defiently recommened because your basically getting an AAS related metabolite (17 methyl E2) form a PH. So in terms of protection you should look at this AS an AAS. For the most part I tihnk everyone using this now is doing so but newbies most likely won't know.
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    That's cool. It's all good then. Thanks.
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    I am glad you could test it, like i said i was to busy with methyl-dien to give this one a run. Although adding a methyl can decrease its androgenic qualities in some cases it increases its anabolic properties while making it oral active. if 4 ad is intrinsic and methylating it increases its anabolic properties and lowers its androgenic properties then by all means that makes this better then regular methyl-test. I dont think it will be as good as methyl-14addiol but I never thought it would. I thought it might be good for those few people who lik eto try different thing sout, and if it is more anabolic and less androgenic although not as strong as some other phs then it will still worth a shot.
    I dont think all the new phs to come out should have a min anabolic profile of 1000, it will be good to get a few that are in the 200-600 range, plus not everyone who wants to use a trans and isntready toinject this might be a good alternative for them.

    But Bobo couldnt have said it better with the thought that most of these new PHs should be considered AAS, this way you are always prepared for the whole cycle.
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    Explained last night that I would wait till tonight to to dose nolva. After my staying up late last night cuz I didn't have to go into work or school today, I noticed even more puffiness in my nipples around 3:00am or so. So I dosed 10mg of nolva then. Woke up this morning and was actually pretty hard again. But, now at 7:30pm tonight, I have collected a lot more water already. So, I'm just gonna stick with 10mg ed unless I see that for some reason I wouldn't need it on a particular day. So keep a good watch sifu...
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    Well I know what you are saying. But estrogen is our friend when it comes to bulking. I could really care less about holding some water. I told sledge when he hooked me up I would run it to the true effect. Now if my nips start itching or looking funny, then I will dose the nolva, if not then I won't.

    Today was my day off from lifting. I coached my normal wrestling class today, but I didn't really participate, since I wanted a complete day off.

    But I still feel great, and the moods are good, as is the constant pump. For some reason I am not bloated today, maybe it was because I ate a potatoe yesterday, they sometimes do that to me.
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    I always thought that if gyno symptoms appear you dose 40 mg nolva until gyno subsides, then cut the dose down to 20mg, then 10mg each day as a sort of "maintenance". Maybe that's only if the gyno hit's you pretty hard???
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    That's what I was thinking as well. Somewhere Bobo posted about how he had run it before. But doing a search under his or Chemos name is just to much damn searching for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    I always thought that if gyno symptoms appear you dose 40 mg nolva until gyno subsides, then cut the dose down to 20mg, then 10mg each day as a sort of "maintenance". Maybe that's only if the gyno hit's you pretty hard???
    It has been said that the consensus would run nolva @ 20-30mg ed and until a few days after the initial day that the problem subsides. And for best results use in conjunction with either arimidex or proviron so the onset of future problems will be slower-acting.

    I chose 10mg due to the actual severity of my symptoms. This is not a factoid for everyone whose gonna use this compound, just the reasoning that I came up with based on MY OWN BODY. I know how my body was before, and I know how it is now. If problems either kept up today, or got worse for that matter, I would have decided to increase my dose on it, thats all. But 10mg seemed to do the trick, so thats what I will stay with for now.
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    any updates? How much total have you guys gained? How about total strength? How about body comp?

    I only ask since i should be recieving my m1,4diol and m5aa cycle within the next couple days
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    Well today is day six for me. I will weigh in tommorow, I only weigh in every seven days, just because weight fluctuates so much. As for strength, I am up on everything. Like I said I don't follow a bodybuilding routine, but all of my lifts are up. And I broke the three bolts in half that were holding up one of the heavy bags in my school, so strength is definately up.

    As for body comp. I was bloated really bad yesterday, but that was it. I know Jergo has had some bloating.

    I am eating totoally clean too, so maybe that is some of it.

    You will like that stack. Strength should go way up on that. What doses are you going to run?
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    jergo so you're gonna do 10mg of nolva for the rest of your diol cycle? how much of the m1/4d are you taking? again, what weight gains are you guys getting on this or strength, any numbers?
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    sifu weights are up? more so then on any other prohormone, bench from 100 to 110lbs or what
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    sledge is gonna have me start with 30mg/m1,4 and 20mg/m5aa and we're gonna take it from there. He wants me to run a longer cycle, possibly 6 weeks. We'll see how it goes, i'm not one to encounter many side effects and i will also be getting liver protectants.
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