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Disappointed

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    Unhappy Disappointed


    Over three years (2/21/2008 to 2/20/2011), I bought for $3838.82 of Custom Capsule products -- for my father, my mother, my sister, my grandmother, two friends, and myself. That's more than $1250/year. After my last order, however, a few inconsistencies in the descriptions of some ingredients drove me to email five questions.

    It took me several emails and international phone calls to finally get some answers ... in June, so four months later. Two of those answers were to the point, another missed it completely, another contradicted the ingredient's description on the website, and the last one was that their providers were too secretive and wouldn't let them know (which I did find slightly worrying).

    So I wasn't very much satisfied by the answers to three out of my five questions. Nate told me then that my questions took time and research to be answered (I'll copy them down below and let you judge) and that my issue was one of their priorities (... of course). Since then, no news, and no answer to my emails. Since June. After having sent my questions in February.

    Here are my remaining questions:
    • GREEN TEA EXTRACT (50% CATECHINS) => The Custom Capsule website states that their green tea extract has 50% catechins (i.e. about 25% EGCG). In an email, I was told it had 50% EGCG. The potency difference is big: simple to double. But when I asked which piece of information was correct, the one on the website or the one in the email, I was told that my questions took time and research to be answered. And that was the end of it.

    • CAPSAICIN / CAPSAICIN (95% CAPSAICINOIDS) => That's the only question that may require a real looking into, even though this "looking into" should already have occurred without my probing. Custom Capsule sells two capsaicin ingredients with very different texture and pricing. Capsaicin is extracted from chili peppers: while there are different kinds of chili peppers, each with very different amounts of capsaicin, any pure capsaicin powder should be pretty much the same as another. Here, though, one has ten times the "fluffiness" (the capsule space it occupies) of the other. That's a huge difference, and one that shouldn't have gone unnoticed. Moreover, one capsaicin product is written "capsaicin (95% capsaicinoids)" -- which makes no sense at all, since capsaicin is a capsaiconoid. So a capsaiconoid product can have 95% capsaicin, but capsaicin can only be 100% capsaiconoid. Similarly, they sell a "curcumin (95% curcuminoids)" even though curcumin is a curcuminoid. So my guess is that they sell a powder that is 95% pure capsaicinoids (capsaicin and derivatives) and a powder that is 95% pure curcuminoids (curcumin and derivatives); but when it comes to stuff I put in my body, I'd rather not have to guess.

    • SAW PALMETTO BERRIES => The dosage recommendation for their saw palmetto berry powder is misleading. The typical dose (i.e. the dose used in the scientific experiments) is 320 mg, yes, but of an 85-95% fatty acids extract. Custom Capsule sells a non-standardized extract (about 18% fatty acids, as was confirmed to me in an email). Of course, I'm not requesting an 85-95% extract, as I very well know it exists only as an oil. But I truly believe that Custom Capsule should remove the "Dosage Recommendations: Typical Dose 320mg" from their website, as it doesn't apply to the ingredient they're selling. It is a rather straightforward ethical issue. To be even clearer: I don't believe it is Custom Capsule's duty or responsibility to provide their customers with dosage recommendations at all; we can and should do our own research regarding what we put inside our bodies; but if they choose to give dosage recommendations, then those should be accurate for the ingredient they're selling, not for a different if related ingredient. Coffee isn't caffeine, yohimbe isn't yohimbine, and saw palmetto berry powder isn't an 85-95% fatty acids extract.
    A few other supplements I was interested in would also benefit from being more clearly defined:
    • BLACK TEA (PE 60%) => 60% of what? Catechins? EGCG?

    • ASHWANGANDHA PE 2.5% => It should be ASHWAGANDHA, but more importantly: 2.5% of what? Withanaloids, I presume, but it isn't stated.

    • FENUGREEK PE 50% => 50% of what? Furostanol saponins, I presume, but here again, it isn't stated.

    • LICORICE EXTRACT 22% => 22% of what? Glycyrrhizin?

    • LICORICE ROOT EXTRACT => What's the difference with the "LICORICE EXTRACT 22%" mentioned above?

    • ASTRAGALUS EXTRACT => Is it standardized to 0.4% 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy isoflavone 7-sug?
    Last edited by Budoka; 12-04-2011 at 02:29 AM.

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    they seem to have issues getting back to everyone.

    not just you.

    JW nutritionals is the company. They do small batches for supplement companies, which ones i dont know. however based on their sketchyness i would not trust them anymore.

    This is sad bc i have a few things i would like to put into a cap and buyin kilos of 10 ingredients simply isnt cost effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    JW nutritionals is the company. They do small batches for supplement companies, which ones i dont know.
    Nate told me the same, giving me to understand that they now had bigger fish to fry ... and therefore little time left to waste on their original customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    This is sad bc i have a few things i would like to put into a cap and buyin kilos of 10 ingredients simply isnt cost effective.
    Indeed. Which is why they can afford to have such poor customer service: They don't have any actual competition. Which is why I'd buy from them again if they answered my questions, even though their silent treatment will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.

    On a related note, TrueNutrition is supposed to start offering custom health powder mixes (using grams) to complement their custom protein mixes (using percentages). It may prove a worthy alternative, depending on the selection.
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    If there are still questions here you need answered i will answer them asap.
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    Well the original questions were still left unanswered
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC rep View Post
    If there are still questions here you need answered i will answer them asap.
    All those in my opening post. Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    Well the original questions were still left unanswered
    Indeed. And some of those questions date from February 2011. One year ago.
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    I sent my questions on February 25th, 2011.

    Today is February 25th, 2012.

    Not that I took his words seriously in the first place, but Nate said that my questions were one of their priorities. Should I laugh or should I cry?
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    I have contacted jesse... i hope we can clear this up somehow...
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    Two more weeks later....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budoka View Post
    Two more weeks later....
    Thanks Budoka. the second one worked. Will rep you again when they let me.
    :blindfold:
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    Hey, fwiw I looked up fenugreek pe and it seems to be standardized for 4-hydroxy-isoleucine and when they say "95% CAPSAICINOIDS" they mean 95% actives and 5% inactive compounds. So they are all technically CAPSAICINOIDS but only 95% are active compounds... I don't know if that helps at all but I thought it might... it's ridiculous that they can't give you a response or even a guess.
    :blindfold:
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Hey, fwiw I looked up fenugreek pe and it seems to be standardized for 4-hydroxy-isoleucine
    How do you know? Why not standardized for furostanol saponins?

    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    and when they say "95% CAPSAICINOIDS" they mean 95% actives and 5% inactive compounds. So they are all technically CAPSAICINOIDS but only 95% are active compounds...
    My guess, as I said, is that they sell a powder that is 95% pure capsaicinoids (capsaicin and derivatives). But have a look at their website and you'll find TWO capsaicin ingredients, with no indication as to the difference.

    So I still feel like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budoka View Post
    How do you know? Why not standardized for furostanol saponins?
    You're right, no way of telling without them telling you which plant extract they bought.

    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/fenugreek-p.e..html



    Quote Originally Posted by Budoka View Post
    My guess, as I said, is that they sell a powder that is 95% pure capsaicinoids (capsaicin and derivatives). But have a look at their website and you'll find TWO capsaicin ingredients, with no indication as to the difference.

    So I still feel like
    It appears only one is a standardized. The other offers no guarantee min/max of actives. That's my guess at least...
    :blindfold:
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    It appears only one is a standardized. The other offers no guarantee min/max of actives. That's my guess at least...
    Actually, capsaicin itself is the active ingredient (extracted from chili pepper). So it doesn't make sense. Capsaicin is capsaicin; there shouldn't be any difference. There are huge differences in capsaicin concentration between different kinds of chili peppers, but since the ingredient isn't "chilli pepper powder," it shouldn't be the problem here.

    Still, your guess is as good as mine -- and neither is good enough to make an informed choice regarding one's health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC rep View Post
    I have contacted jesse... i hope we can clear this up somehow...
    That was three weeks ago. Any news?
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    You sound like a really educated guy. I know it's frustrating not getting the answers you want, and I know people generally expect suppliers to know everything about their products, but sometimes they don't. I do agree that if they didn't know the answer that they should have contacted you, but they're a small company and their manpower is probably not that high which makes customer service one of the harder aspects of operation. Those (even slightly) old e-mails can get lost quickly when a lot of orders and customers service inquiries are coming in. Try contacting them again and see if you get a response. Best of luck to you mate!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllGenetic View Post
    You sound like a really educated guy. I know it's frustrating not getting the answers you want, and I know people generally expect suppliers to know everything about their products, but sometimes they don't. I do agree that if they didn't know the answer that they should have contacted you, but they're a small company and their manpower is probably not that high which makes customer service one of the harder aspects of operation. Those (even slightly) old e-mails can get lost quickly when a lot of orders and customers service inquiries are coming in. Try contacting them again and see if you get a response. Best of luck to you mate!
    I tried to get in touch again several times; I emailed both Nate and Jesse; they don't bother answering. I even called -- international calls, mind you -- three times, during U.S. office hours, but only got to converse with an answering machine. Also, CC representatives both here (two months ago) and on Modern Fitness Forum (four months ago) told me they'd try to get answers, but neither has brought back any. I've PMed a monthly reminder to J2jud on MFF; he's just been ignoring them -- purposefully, since he's still posting in threads. As for Russian Star, here, he wrote in this very thread, "If there are still questions here you need answered i will answer them asap." (two months ago) and "I have contacted jesse... i hope we can clear this up somehow..." (one month ago).

    A company that deals with nutritional products should know what they sell. Or, to be precise, they should have the information on file. Are you telling me it's OK if they don't really know what they buy and then sell for people to put into their bodies??

    (I know I sound upset. Because I am upset. But not at you, so I apologize if it feels that way.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Budoka View Post
    I tried to get in touch again several times; I emailed both Nate and Jesse; they don't bother answering. I even called -- international calls, mind you -- three times, during U.S. office hours, but only got to converse with an answering machine. Also, CC representatives both here (two months ago) and on Modern Fitness Forum (four months ago) told me they'd try to get answers, but neither has brought back any. I've PMed a monthly reminder to J2jud on MFF; he's just been ignoring them -- purposefully, since he's still posting in threads. As for Russian Star, here, he wrote in this very thread, "If there are still questions here you need answered i will answer them asap." (two months ago) and "I have contacted jesse... i hope we can clear this up somehow..." (one month ago).

    A company that deals with nutritional products should know what they sell. Or, to be precise, they should have the information on file. Are you telling me it's OK if they don't really know what they buy and then sell for people to put into their bodies??

    (I know I sound upset. Because I am upset. But not at you, so I apologize if it feels that way.)


    Nah I didn't mean it's okay for them not to know, but sometimes it is hard to find out. I ran a similar company for a while and the problem lies with the fact that all these ingredients come from China. Out of all the companies I ever dealt with only one had a U.S. subsidiary, meaning the language barrier was in effect with all the other suppliers. The language barrier sucks when it comes to getting that specific information you asked for because the suppliers don't fully understand what you're asking and will send you the wrong documents over and over again, and eventually will get frustrated and won't answer your regular e-mails you send to place 25kg orders because they figure its another "pointless inquiry". Like I said though man I agree that CC should have given you a shout by now, but you should take their lack of correspondence as a "we're out of business". I haven't heard much about Jesse for a long time (we used to live in the same city) so he's probably tied up on another project/venture. I know he moved to start new work, but that's all the info I know. Good luck man!
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    Yeah maybe these guys went out of business. I wouldn't bother with them anymore if I were you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllGenetic View Post
    Nah I didn't mean it's okay for them not to know, but sometimes it is hard to find out. I ran a similar company for a while and the problem lies with the fact that all these ingredients come from China. Out of all the companies I ever dealt with only one had a U.S. subsidiary, meaning the language barrier was in effect with all the other suppliers. The language barrier sucks when it comes to getting that specific information you asked for because the suppliers don't fully understand what you're asking and will send you the wrong documents over and over again, and eventually will get frustrated and won't answer your regular e-mails you send to place 25kg orders because they figure its another "pointless inquiry".
    They'll stop thinking your inquiry pointless if you refuse to buy the product without an answer. If you're too eager to buy whatever they sell, without question, they'll sell you table sugar and call it creatine or beta alanine or whatever you really wish to order.

    Anyway, COAs are required to import food supplements into the States, and the information I requested, being pretty basic, should be on those COAs.


    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllGenetic View Post
    Like I said though man I agree that CC should have given you a shout by now, but you should take their lack of correspondence as a "we're out of business". I haven't heard much about Jesse for a long time (we used to live in the same city) so he's probably tied up on another project/venture. I know he moved to start new work, but that's all the info I know. Good luck man!
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Yeah maybe these guys went out of business. I wouldn't bother with them anymore if I were you.
    Thanks, both of you. Maybe you're right ... but I spent so many hours designing custom formulas! I even made an Excel sheet that helps me design a capsule (volume and pricing) without using the -- much slower -- electronic form on the CC website.
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    *sigh* Another bad omen: Not only haven't they updated their FB page since last September, but they let random people spam it with ads.

    https://www.facebook.com/CustomCapsule?sk=wall

    A spam ad if I ever saw one:
    Limited Stocks SALE Nike Air Yeezy "Glow in the Dark" ( ALL-STAR ) Price:: 109.99$ Site::
    http://nikeshopper-2012.blogspot.com/
    US Men's size : 8,8.5,9.5,10,11,12,13 for your assurance call our live support team +1-888-247-1652
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    Bump!
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    Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

    Got Glycophase ...?


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    This is just sad! And I was going to look at what they had too! ill stick to nutra and TP (now TN)
    LG Sciences Board Rep
    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.
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    I finally got some (not all) answers.

    And those answers did matter. Before, we just had two "capsaicin" ingredients. Now, we know that one contains 55% capscaicin, the other 0.5%. Not a small difference! Also, the green tea extract has twice the EGCG content previously advertised.
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