Weights Before Cardio - AnabolicMinds.com
    • Weights Before Cardio


      From Iron Magazine

      If you combine strength training with cardio exercise, you probably start your workouts with the strength training and finish with the cardio. That usually feels best. It’s good to follow your intuition, say sports scientists at the University of Jyvaskyla in Finland. They demonstrated that workouts that start with cardio and finish with strength training place a heavier load on your body so you need longer to recover.

      There’s much to be said for combining strength training and – in moderation of course – cardio training. Finishing a weights workout with 20 minutes of cardio exercise is good for your blood vessels/a> for example. There are indications that you burn fat more easily during a post-weight training cardio session, and studies have shown that the combination of cardio and weight training is an excellent way to lose weight.

      A disadvantage of combining these two forms of exercise is that it’s easy to overdo the cardio training, and as a result reduce your progression when it comes to strength, muscle mass and speed. On the other hand, if you can moderate your cardio training appropriately, you can use it to speed up your recovery from the weight training.

      You are less likely to over-train if you plan your cardio training for the end of the workout, according to the study we’re referring to here. The study was done with two groups of 21 inactive young men.

      One group [S+E] trained their leg muscles first on a leg-press machine. The men did 3 explosive sets with 40 percent of the weight at which they could just manage 1 rep [1RM]. Then they did 3 sets with 90 percent of their 1RM, so training for strength. After that they did another 4 sets with 75-85 percent of their 1RM, training for muscle mass.

      The men ended their training with a 30-minute cardio session. They cycled at 65 percent of their VO2max, a level at which they could just carry out a conversation.

      The second group [E+S] did exactly the same, but in the opposite order. These subjects started their workout with a cardio session and finished with the weight training.

      Although both groups performed exactly the same exercise, the order in which they did it had an effect on the subjects’ recovery. The E+S group had less testosterone and more creatine kinase in their blood 24 and 48 hours after the workout than the S+E group. That suggests that their bodies had recovered less.




      In terms of the cortisol level it made no difference what order the men used for their workout; nor did it make a difference for strength recovery.

      “The present E+S loading seemed to require a longer recovery when compared to the S+E loading which may become important when utilizing single session combined endurance and strength training”, the Finns conclude. “However, additional research is necessary in order to investigate the relevance of the present findings with regard to prolonged training adaptations and athletic populations.”

      Acute neuromuscular and endocrine responses and recovery to single-session combined endurance and strength loadings: “order effect” in untrained young men.

      Schumann M, Eklund D, Taipale RS, Nyman K, Kraemer WJ, Häkkinen A, Izquierdo M, Häkkinen K.
      Source

      1Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland 2Central Hospital of Central Finland, Jyväskylä, Finland 3Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut 4Department of Health Sciences, University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland 5Department of Health Sciences, Public University of Navarra, Navarra, Spain.

      Abstract

      Schumann, M, Eklund, D, Taipale, RS, Nyman, K, Kraemer, WJ, Häkkinen, A, Izquierdo, M, and Häkkinen, K. Acute neuromuscular and endocrine responses and recovery to single-session combined endurance and strength loadings: “Order effect” in untrained young men. J Strength Cond Res 27(2): 421-433, 2013-The purpose of this study was to investigate acute neuromuscular and endocrine responses and recovery to a single session of combined endurance and strength loading using 2 loading orders. Forty-two men were demographically matched to perform a single session of combined endurance + strength (E + S) or strength + endurance (S + E) loading. The strength loading was conducted on a leg press and included sets of power, maximal strength, and hypertrophic loads with an overall duration of 30 minutes. The endurance loading was conducted on a bike ergometer and performed by continuous cycling over 30 minutes at 65% of subject’s individual maximal watts. Both loading conditions led to significant acute reductions in maximal force production (E + S: -27%, p < 0.001; S + E: -22%, p < 0.001), rapid force produced in 500 milliseconds (E + S: -26%, p < 0.001; S + E: -18%, p < 0.001), and countermovement jump height (E + S: -15%, p < 0.001; S + E: -12%, p < 0.001), whereas no significant differences between the 2 loadings were observed. Maximal and explosive force production recovered after 48 hours after both loading conditions. Whereas no significant acute responses were found in concentrations of serum testosterone (T) and thyroid-stimulating hormone in the 2 loading conditions, concentrations of T were significantly reduced in E + S during recovery at 24 hours (-13%, p < 0.05) and 48 hours (-11%, p = 0.068), but not in S + E, and concentrations of thyroid-stimulating hormone significantly reduced after both loading conditions (24 hours: E + S, -32%, p < 0.001; S + E, -25%, p < 0.01; 48 hours: E + S, -25%, p < 0.001; S + E, -18%, p < 0.01). The loading conditions in this study showed that neuromuscular performance recovered already within 2 days, whereas endocrine function, observed particularly by decreased concentrations in serum T after the E + S loading order, remained altered still after 48 hours of recovery. These results emphasize the different needs for recovery after 2 loading orders.

      PMID: 23222087 [PubMed - in process]

      Study Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23222087

      Source: http://www.ironmagazine.com/2013/rec...io-afterwards/
      Comments 9 Comments
      1. Legacyfighter's Avatar
        Legacyfighter -
        There is one MAJOR problem to this study. It does not look at hypertrophy response at all. Cardio after weight training is a VERY BAD idea when looking to gain or retain lean mass. Immediately after training mTOR, the primary non-inuslin mediated hypertrophy response, is through the roof. Feeding during this time is critical for hypertrophy. The higher the GI carbs and the quicker the protein source the better. When cardio is performed after weight training AMPKinase levels raise. AMPKinase shuts down the mTOR pathway, greatly inhibiting the hypertrophic response. Not to mention that the longer you wait after weight training the less sensitive your muscles are to inuslin and glucose, further limiting the hypertrophy response.

        If you must do cardio and weight training in the same day, I would highly recommend doing cardio 2 hours or more before lifting, or 6 hours or more after lifting.
      1. jman245's Avatar
        jman245 -
        wow,wat u just said now has me confused on what to do.everything i have read said to do cardio after lifting.is this only if i want to shed fat?
      1. Othello1276's Avatar
        Othello1276 -
        From the latest articles I've read on the subject, they seem to agree with LegacyFighter. Cardio before training , on non training days or with at least a 6 hour break between are best for maintaining the lean muscle you worked hard to gain. They article I read also mentioned that if cardio needed to be done after then HIIT , cycling or rowing was best as it showed no real impact on muscle loss. I personally have had good results with separating my steady cardio sessions and doing HIIT if I need to do it after training.
      1. jman245's Avatar
        jman245 -
        i usually do HIIT as my form of cardio after lifting,some sprints on the treadmill.sometimes i cycle for 10-15 mins after lifting,nothing hardcore just a good ride of 3-5 miles on it.is that ok?
      1. Othello1276's Avatar
        Othello1276 -
        Originally Posted by jman245 View Post
        i usually do HIIT as my form of cardio after lifting,some sprints on the treadmill.sometimes i cycle for 10-15 mins after lifting,nothing hardcore just a good ride of 3-5 miles on it.is that ok?
        Yeah, I would say that was fine. The study showed the problem being the 20+ steady state post training cardio session did the most to blunt the hypertrophic response. Cycling, Rowing., and pretty much any form of HIIT had little to no effect, due to their resistant training type qualities
      1. Legacyfighter's Avatar
        Legacyfighter -
        Originally Posted by Othello1276 View Post
        Yeah, I would say that was fine. The study showed the problem being the 20+ steady state post training cardio session did the most to blunt the hypertrophic response. Cycling, Rowing., and pretty much any form of HIIT had little to no effect, due to their resistant training type qualities
        I would still suggest not to do cardio afterward. Even if HIIT has been shown to be muscle sparing I would be concerned with where the nutrients are going. If i just finished up with a heavy chest day, I want every bit of protein and carbohydrates i'm ingesting during and immediately after going to rebuild my pecs. I don't want it being used to fuel my cardio session. HIIT, due to its higher intensity is more likely to burn through glycogen, when you take in carbs and protein post workout it will go to refill the glycogen you just used up. Again, I want every bit of nutrients going to rebuild my pecs after my chest days.
      1. Othello1276's Avatar
        Othello1276 -
        Originally Posted by Legacyfighter View Post
        I would still suggest not to do cardio afterward. Even if HIIT has been shown to be muscle sparing I would be concerned with where the nutrients are going. If i just finished up with a heavy chest day, I want every bit of protein and carbohydrates i'm ingesting during and immediately after going to rebuild my pecs. I don't want it being used to fuel my cardio session. HIIT, due to its higher intensity is more likely to burn through glycogen, when you take in carbs and protein post workout it will go to refill the glycogen you just used up. Again, I want every bit of nutrients going to rebuild my pecs after my chest days.
        Yeah, can definitely understand that but what if your goal is to drop bodyfat while not only maintaining but building lean muscle. And if time is also a factor in your training, getting there twice just to separate your resistance and cardio sessions just isn't an option.
      1. Legacyfighter's Avatar
        Legacyfighter -
        @Othello: Then what I would recommend is incline walking before weight training. Heart rate under 120. That should bias calorie expenditure toward fat and away from carbohydrates and protein. It shouldn't effect glycogen stores much and won't take away from the workout.
      1. fueledpassion's Avatar
        fueledpassion -
        Just drink BCAA's and stop worrying about it. That's what the supplement is for. There are a number of ways to avoid muscle wasting during training. One effective way is to be carb-loaded when doing resistance-training and carb-depleted (but supplementing BCAA's) when doing cardio.

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