• Bodybuilder Or Weightlifter?


      By Ron Kosloff N/C Iron Magazine

      You are going to come to a crossroad in our game where you are going to have to decide whether you want to be a bodybuilder or a weightlifter. A bodybuilder sculpts the body to make each and every muscle stand out. If Vince Girondaís method is used, all four heads are worked to really make the muscle take shape, have definition, and aesthetics. A weightlifter (tugger, swinger, pullerÖyou know what I mean) endeavours to have a large ego as well as large muscles. To my way of thinking, weightlifting exercises are a conglomeration of cheating movements.

      For instance, a bench press is a cheating exercise where you use about six (6) muscles. Plant you feet on the floor, arch your back, and immediately you are using the terrous major muscle. You also put your thumbs around the bar (this should never be done ó you should always use a palm grip) and immediately you use the forearms. Now youíre using your back and your forearms as well. Once you arch your back and get your feet in a planted position, primarily the exercise is inner deltoid. When you do this, you are using your biceps and triceps. So youíre using roughly six muscles including the pectorals to so-called lift the weight, never really developing any muscle, never shaping or sculpting it.

      As I said earlier, you should never put your thumbs around the bar. When you do, in any exercise, you will bring your forearms into play. As an example when working your biceps, half of the exercise will be forearms and the other half is biceps. Thatís why people say to me, ďEvery time I do curls, I feel it in my forearms.Ē Thatís right, because you are wrapping your thumbs under the bar, which is called a palm grip, or a false grip.

      Of course, if you do want to be a weightlifter, tugger, and what not, you will have to realize that sooner or later you are going to injure every joint, muscle, ligament, and tendon in your body. All for sake of saying, ďIím a power lifter and I can lift 400 pounds.Ē Itís not going to get you any muscle shape. It will, however, cause you lots of pain, and it will only get worse as you age.

      With most power lifters, diet is thrown to the wind because they eat anything and everything. Technically, the more you weigh the more you can lift. You will have to ask yourself if thatís how you want to look, or do you want to look like a bodybuilder? This is the ultimate decision that youíre going to have to make.

      When I first got into the game, I was a member of a YMCA. I would go there to swim and shoot pool once in a while. Occasionally, I would see these really big fellows come in. They were huge. I soon found out that they were weightlifters. I went to the weightlifting room to observe and was just standing around and one of them said to me, ďCome on in, weíll show you how to lift.Ē I thought, ďOh boy!!! This looks good to me.Ē

      Most people who lift weights have some sort of an inadequacy complex. I wonít say inferiority complex, but they feel inadequate and their self-esteem is low. I knew mine was. I had always been extremely slender. They showed me all of these exercises and I was thrilled. Naturally, I couldnít lift the amount that they were lifting because they were much older than I, but I made an attempt. I thought this was how you attained a decent body because I had seen pictures of Steve Reeves. I never knew how he worked out. I had seen some pictures of the old-time bodybuilders and I thought bodybuilders and weightlifters were one in the same. I had no idea they were that different. I recalled seeing bodybuilding magazines with the type of physique I liked.

      After I worked out my first night, everyone hit the showers. I was looking around at these guys and said to myself, ďHoly smokes, I donít want to look like that!Ē They all had big guts and large rear-ends. These guys were big and strong, but they were not impressive at all. They didnít have the look of a bodybuilder. That is when I found out that there was a huge difference, but since I was a kid, I just didnít know. At the YMCA at that time if you were a bodybuilder you were considered a little funny. They would hold a bodybuilding contest, but it would be in the basement. A man posing, shaving his body ó this was unheard of. So, the weightlifters got all the attention.

      I used to go to some of the weightlifting meets. When I first walked in, I saw all of these guys with bandaged shoulders, wrist, and knees. I could smell the liniment. It was horrible. I could hear them saying, ďI ruined my knee, sprained my ankle, hurt my back, etc.Ē I thought to myself, ďThis sure as hell isnít something that I want to get into.Ē After observing that, I knew right away that I didnít want to be a weightlifter. As an older guy today, I donít have many injuries except for some scar tissue in my left shoulder and left knee when I tried to prove I could lift a weight that I couldnít. When scar tissue forms, it never goes away. If you try and lift weight that Mother Nature never intended for you to lift in the first place, you are going to injure yourself. Most of my life being a bodybuilder, I never taxed the scar tissue in my shoulder or knee, so I have never had any injuries. I never tore anything. I have never injured ligaments or tendons. Most power lifters, weightlifters and bodybuilders today take steroids. The simple fact is, and most people donít understand, that steroids will certainly make you bigger, absolutely. They will make you tremendously stronger. They will anesthetize you. You will feel great when you take them. One thing that steroids canít do is make your ligaments, tendons, and joints stronger. Thatís one reason theyíre so many injuries in sports in general. Some professional athletes are on steroids, either to get bigger and stronger or to recuperate from the strenuous, almost-yearlong endeavour of preparing for their jobs. My teacher, Vince Gironda, hated them, and he accused them of destroying the game that we partake in. When steroids first came into prominence in 1963, all meaningful advancement in natural bodybuilding ceased, which was tragic. Of course, it broke Vinceís heart. He hated steroids and he made it known and he stood alone.

      At the YMCA, someone had posted a sign down in the dungeon, where the bodybuilders used to train, that the western YMCA was holding a bodybuilding contest. There were going to be ten (10) contestants. So, I got on the bus and went to the contest. The minute I saw those guys I knew it was exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to look good. I wanted to have shape, definition and aesthetics.

      Most power lifters look down on bodybuilders as not strong people. This is simply not true. I try to explain (if people listen) there are two types of strength. There is individual muscle strength and there is group strength. Letís say you lift 200 pounds in a standard bench press. I bet that you couldnít do 200 pounds in a Vince Gironda neck press. Whatís the difference? A neck press is where you lie on the bench with feet crossed and knees as close to your chest as you can. Your back is flat now. Take the weight off the rack and use a 90-degree grip between your forearm and your bicep. Thatís your set position. Your back is flat and your chin is up. You start out with the weight elevated as high as you can get it and then slowly bring the bar down to the sternoclavicle, or your Adamís apple, and then draw your elbows back.

      In a standard bench press, you bring the bar down to the lower pectoral line, which now becomes an inner-deltoid exercise. When you bring the bar down to the sternoclavicle and pull your elbows back, you are getting a tremendous stretch between the top of the pectorals and the bottom. It is a tremendous exercise, but I bet you will cut your weight almost in half. Now youíre lifting 100 pounds with one muscle instead of 200 with six (6) muscles. Thatís the difference between a weightlifter and a bodybuilder. You have to decide whether you want to impress people with how much weight you can cheat up or how you look.

      When Larry Scott entered a bodybuilding contest, do you think the judges cared if he could do a 300-pound bench press? They didnít care how much he could lift. They were concerned about how he looked. Did he have shape, definition, and aesthetics? People who do individual exercises have individual strength. Those who do group exercise have group strength. I cannot workout the way a weightlifter can but in turn he canít workout the way I do.

      I had a Canadian weightlifter come into my office (Detroit is just across the border from Canada) and he wanted to get liver and protein. We talked about Vince Girondaís methods and he kind of scoffed at them. I said, ďMarcel, what do you do in a curl. Do you ever do dumbbell curls?Ē He said that he used 60-75 pounds for dumbbell curls. I said, ďI have two (2) 25 dumbbells here. Do you think you could do 8 sets of 8 repetitions?Ē He laughed at me. He thought it was funny. But I told him we were going to do it my way, not his way. ďPut your heels together and toes apart. Bend your knees and hunch forward and put your chin to your chest. Grab the dumbbell with a palm grip and straighten your arm out. Start with the dumbbell on your fingertips. As you curl both weights you lock your elbows into your side. Hunch over so the weight at the bottom will have the same resistance when you contract at the top. Youíre not leaning back and cheating the weight from a half movement to a full movement. Close your eyes and feel the weight. Feel the positives. Touch your deltoids and squeeze them as hard as you can for six (6) seconds, then feel the weight on the way down. Do a full set. Donít drop the weight. Let it go down on your fingertips. Put the weight on the floor and hyperventilate for 15 seconds. Grab the weight again and do another set.Ē It was a joke. On the second set, sixth rep, he couldnít even lift the weight. Then I took the 25-pound dumbbells and I cranked out 6 sets of 8 reps and said, ďSee, technically I am stronger than you when I do an isolation exercise. But when you do a weightlifting exercise, youíre stronger than I am. Thatís not to say I canít be as strong as you. If I had the capabilities, I could not do as much weight, but I could increase my weight a lot.Ē

      The reason that Vince Gironda called the squat a sissy squat is because he would make sissies out of weightlifters when they would come in and do squats. Weightlifting squats are not basically a leg exercise. Certainly, you get big thighs but you ruin the proportion between your thighs, hips, abdomen, and lower back. As Vince had said, weightlifting squats do many things that you donít want your body to be accustomed to like increase the size of your stomach because you push it out, widen your lower back, and get a big rear-end. Vince said he could tell an eastern bodybuilder when he came into his gym by the size of his rear-end. Vince would always warn people, and I have advocated this and told people at the Powerhouse Gym people, when I owned it, once you develop your glutes, you can never reduce them. They are the densest muscles in your body. People used to laugh at me, but many years later they now say they wish they would have listened.

      Look at all the modern-day squatters who call themselves bodybuilders. They have rear-ends that proportionately are bigger than their legs. They look horrible. They walk like ducks. Thatís the first thing I noticed at the YMCA. I want to warn all you bodybuilders. If you start to do squats, you will get a large rear-end that will never, never go away. Iíd like a weightlifter to duplicate this. I saw Vince Gironda on a hack-slide/hack-squat machine that he invented. He went up on his toes with heels together, both knees would be pointed towards opposite walls (like a frog). I saw the man crank out 8 sets of 8 reps with 15 seconds of rest in between. I think the bar was around 225 pounds. Now that is strong! Most people do weightlifting squats because itís easy to do. Itís much easier to bend over and use a group of muscles. When you isolate the thigh in hack slide versus a squat, you have one muscle lifting 225 pounds versus five (5) muscles lifting 400, which is a cheating exercise to begin with.

      Now you ask the question, is it possible to be a bodybuilder and weightlifter? Well, unless you are a genetic superior like Vince Gironda always talked about, the answer is no. I have only seen two people in my life that were capable of doing both. One was an old-time bodybuilder/weightlifter who was on the U.S. Olympic team. His name was Tommy Kono and he represented York Barbell. He had a terrific physique. There are some people who can do squats because they have small hips and small glutes to begin with, but 95% of people canít. He entered weightlifting and physique contests. Sergio Oliva, who defected from Cuba in the late 50s to early 60s, was a member of the Cuban weightlifting team. He didnít look like a weightlifter, he looked like a bodybuilder, but he was blessed. When I watched him work out at the YMCA in Chicago, he had such a small waist and small hips and no rear-end to speak of so weightlifting squats didnít affect him that much, if at all. When he started in bodybuilding, he was very successful, but he didnít pay very much attention to his diet. When I watched him work out, he was eating some kind of pie and drinking a Coke. He didnít look like he knew that much about nutrition, and thatís why when he competed against Larry Scott in 1966, Larry just blew him away. Vince once said, ďIf I ever trained Oliva nobody could touch him.Ē He was such a genetic superior. He *****led Don Howorth in bodybuilding proportions. I always thought Don had more potential, but Sergio just never practiced good nutrition. I guess he felt that he didnít have to. When Scott beat him in the 1966 Olympia (I was there), Sergio was just dripping with oil. He put so much oil on his body to try to bring his definition out, and it really made him look worse. Because of his genetic superiority and the fact he was blessed, he went on to win many, many titles. One time I was at a seminar in Minneapolis, he was bragging that he beat everybody. I cleared my throat and said, ďSergio you never beat Larry Scott.Ē He was quite embarrassed about that.

      Source:http://www.ironmagazine.com/2012/the...-weightlifter/
      Comments 16 Comments
      1. chedapalooza's Avatar
        chedapalooza -
        <3 Vince

        Doing 8x8 n loving it !

        Compliments from strangers at the gym, family, gf...

        Leanest and most dense gains ever, soreness is great... Neck chest presses=omg!

        8x8 reverse lunges ... Smh! Love it!
      1. mattsams89's Avatar
        mattsams89 -
        Your lack of knowledge of anatomy and physiology, sport performance training methods, and sport differentiation (weightlifting and powerlifting, the latter being described in this article, are vastly different) is astounding...
      1. Bryanz47's Avatar
        Bryanz47 -
        I though this was going to be an unbiased article
        When I read this article clearly rants that bodybuilders are better than weightlifters. I was shocked. I mean I love to become a bodybuilder one day. But just this article was so biased. I'll guess I'll go back to doing my CHEATING squats, bench press, etc.....
      1. SweetLou321's Avatar
        SweetLou321 -
        I dont think a writer fully understands what he talks about, there is literally very lil anatomy talk her and science. Just some old time bodybuilder trainer. This article sucks, period. Id like him to go up to matt kroc and call him fat and out of shape for being a powerlifter, yet he has the world record at 220 then went on and won the ncp michigan state show. hahaha idiots. Screw vince and his horrible lifts.
      1. Torobestia's Avatar
        Torobestia -
        Yo Iron Magazine, it's not April Fools yet! Hahahaha.

        Truly terrible article.
      1. The Cold's Avatar
        The Cold -
        This dude is a butt puppet.
      1. cj784's Avatar
        cj784 -
        As someone who studies the human body you have no idea what your talking about. Its people such as you that spread false rumors and write biased articles which give rise to some of the most abstract methodologies out there. If you want to talk about unfounded "bro-science" that's fine but don't try to back your theories with incorrect science. Not only are you spreading false information to everyone who reads this but you sound like an idiot as well.
      1. Torobestia's Avatar
        Torobestia -
        I think I found the author on youtube, sharing more of his "thoughts:"

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8nSHzAE5CQ&ob=av3e
      1. j2048b's Avatar
        j2048b -
        whats even MORE WORSE, IS THAT ANABOLICMINDS ALLOWED THIS TO GRACE THEIR NEWSLETTER! REALLLLY? COME ON NOW AM! GET WITH IT! time to start proof reading crap before it really trully is just thIS > CRAP!!
      1. Bryanz47's Avatar
        Bryanz47 -
        I'm glad I'm not the only one
      1. mikeg313's Avatar
        mikeg313 -
        Well that read was crappy and discouraging! Oh wait, I don't give a $h!t..I do what feels good and works for me! .. Suck a fart outa my a$$! Doh!
      1. CopyCat's Avatar
        CopyCat -
        Squats make your stomach bigger because you push it out? Pfft
      1. lamonster14's Avatar
        lamonster14 -
        This article is absolute blasphemy. It's based on nothing but personal opinion and speculation.
      1. RedneckDB's Avatar
        RedneckDB -
        Terrible article essentially just ripping on the fundamental lifts that have worked for years for many people. *ignored* and back to reading articles by authors that present factual arguments or provide sensible weight training advice.
      1. smash1904's Avatar
        smash1904 -
        Hahahaha man this is good. Youtube video is hilarious too.
      1. Tiger76's Avatar
        Tiger76 -
        Why is it when I bench then does my chest get sore hmmm

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