Why you may want to consider stacking RPM, Drive, and X-Factor

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    Why you may want to consider stacking RPM, Drive, and X-Factor


    Been doing a little research, and found some very interesting stuff! Seems like there is synergism between Arachadonic Acid and increased cyclic AMP levels (which increase significantly when dosing Drive and RPM) on increasing steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (sTAR) and steroidogenesis....take a look:

    J Endocrinol. 2006 Sep;190(3):871-8.Click here to read Links
    The involvement of epoxygenase metabolites of arachidonic acid in cAMP-stimulated steroidogenesis and steroidogenic acute regulatory protein gene expression.
    Wang X, Shen CL, Dyson MT, Yin X, Schiffer RB, Grammas P, Stocco DM.

    Department of Neuropsychiatry, Garrison Institute on Aging, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Lubbock, Texas 79430, USA. xingjia.wang@ttuhsc.edu

    The essential role of arachidonic acid (AA) in steroidogenesis has been previously demonstrated. The present study continues the investigation into how AA regulates steroidogenesis by examining the effects of epoxygenase-derived AA metabolites on cAMP-stimulated steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) gene expression and steroid hormone production in MA-10 mouse Leydig cells. The HPLC analysis of cell extracts from MA-10 cells treated with the cAMP analog dibutyryl cAMP (dbcAMP) demonstrated an increase in three epoxygenase-generated AA metabolites: 5,6-epoxyeicosatrienoic acid (EET), 8,9-EET, and 11,12-EET. Incubating MA-10 cells with each of the EETs induced a dose-dependent increase in StAR protein expression and steroid hormone production in the presence of dbcAMP. These metabolites also significantly enhanced StAR gene transcription as determined by luciferase assays of StAR promoter activity and reverse transcriptase-PCR analysis of StAR mRNA levels. While the EETs enhanced steroidogenesis, inhibiting the activity of protein kinase A (PKA) abolished the stimulatory effects of these AA metabolites on StAR expression and steroid hormone production. This study suggests that cAMP stimulation of MA-10 cells increases epoxygenase-generated AA metabolites and the co-action of these metabolites with PKA significantly increases StAR gene expression and steroid hormone production.


    J Biol Chem. 2000 Jun 30;275(26):20204-9.Click here to read Links
    The role of arachidonic acid in steroidogenesis and steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) gene and protein expression.
    Wang X, Walsh LP, Reinhart AJ, Stocco DM.

    Department of Cell Biology and Biochemistry, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Lubbock, Texas 79430, USA.

    This study was conducted to examine the mechanism for arachidonic acid (AA) regulation of steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein expression and the relationship between AA and cAMP in hormone-induced steroidogenesis. Dibutyryl cyclic AMP (Bt(2)cAMP)-stimulated MA-10 Leydig cells were treated with AA and/or the phospholipase A(2) inhibitor, dexamethasone. Dexamethasone significantly reduced Bt(2)cAMP-stimulated progesterone production, StAR promoter activity, StAR mRNA, and StAR protein. The inhibitory effects of dexamethasone were reversed by the addition of 150 microm AA to MA-10 cells. In addition, MA-10 cells were treated with the lipoxygenase inhibitor, nordihydroguaiaretic acid (NDGA), the 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor, AA861, the epoxygenase inhibitor, miconazole, and the cyclooxygenase inhibitor, indomethacin. Both NDGA and AA861 inhibited progesterone production and StAR protein expression. AA861-inhibited progesterone synthesis and StAR protein were partially reversed by addition of the 5- lipoxygenase metabolite, 5(S)-hydroperoxy-(6E,8Z,11Z, 14Z)-eicosatetraenoic acid. Inhibition of epoxygenase activity inhibited progesterone production significantly, but StAR protein was only slightly reduced. Indomethacin enhanced StAR protein expression and significantly increased progesterone production. Inhibition of AA release or lipoxygenase activities did not affect protein kinase A activity, whereas inhibition of protein kinase A activity using H89 reduced Bt(2)cAMP-induced StAR protein. AA alone did not induce StAR protein expression nor steroid production. These results demonstrate the essential role of AA in steroid biosynthesis and StAR gene transcription and suggest the possible involvement of the lipoxygenase pathway in steroidogenesis. This study further indicates that AA and cAMP transduce signals from trophic hormone receptors to the nucleus through two separate pathways and act to co-regulate steroid production and StAR gene expression and indicates that both pathways are required for trophic hormone-stimulated steroidogenesis.


    Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2002 Feb 25;188(1-2):55-63.Click here to read Links
    Interaction between arachidonic acid and cAMP signaling pathways enhances steroidogenesis and StAR gene expression in MA-10 Leydig tumor cells.
    Wang XJ, Dyson MT, Mondillo C, Patrignani Z, Pignataro O, Stocco DM.

    Department of Cell Biology and Biochemistry, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Lubbock, TX 79430, USA. cbbxw@ttuhsc.edu

    Previous studies have demonstrated that trophic hormone stimulation induced cyclic AMP (cAMP) formation and arachidonic acid (AA) release from phospholipids and that both these compounds were required for steroid biosynthesis and steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) gene expression in MA-10 mouse Leydig tumor cells. The present study further investigates the synergistic effects of the AA and cAMP interaction on steroidogenesis. To demonstrate cAMP-induced AA release, MA-10 cells were pre-loaded with 3H-AA and subsequently treated with dibutyryl cyclic AMP (dbcAMP). Stimulation with dbcAMP significantly induced AA release in MA-10 cells to a level 145.7% higher than that of controls. Lowering intracellular cAMP concentration by expressing a cAMP-phosphodiesterase significantly reduced human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG)-induced AA release. The dbcAMP-induced AA release was inhibited significantly by the phospholipase A(2) (PLA(2)) inhibitor dexamethasone (Dex) and also by the protein kinase A (PKA) inhibitor H89, suggesting the involvement of PKA phosphorylation and/or PLA(2) activation in cAMP-induced AA release. The effect of the interaction between AA and cAMP on StAR gene expression and steroid production was also investigated. While 0.2 mM dbcAMP induced only very low levels of StAR protein, StAR mRNA, StAR promoter activity and steroid production, all of these parameters increased dramatically as AA concentration in the culture medium was increased from 0 to 200 microM. Importantly, AA was not able to induce a significant increase in steroidogenesis at any concentration when used in the absence of dbcAMP. However, when used in concert with submaximal concentrations of dbcAMP (0.05 mm to 0.5 mm), AA was capable of stimulating StAR gene expression and increasing steroid production significantly. The results from this study demonstrate that AA and cAMP act in a highly synergistic manner to increase the sensitivity of steroid production to trophic hormone stimulation and probably do so by increasing StAR gene expression.
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    hehe. thats my stack!
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    Nice find big guy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    hehe. thats my stack!
    I have been keeping up with your stack and a couple others Everyone who I have talked to who is taking this stack LOVES it.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    I have been keeping up with your stack and a couple others Everyone who I have talked to who is taking this stack LOVES it.....
    I dont know dirk, Im up 5 pounds in less than 20 days. Maybe a pound or two is attributed to water, but 4 pounds in under 20 days is really amazing. The X-factor hasnt kicked in yet I think but I was one of the first to notice DOMS. I started noticing heavier DOSM within day 7-8. Maybe it's the blend of Drive that gives it that kick start. All I know is that it's day 20 right now and My legs and traps are burning like there's no tomorrow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    hehe. thats my stack!
    ur the lucky one my stack gives me the shhiittts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    I dont know dirk, Im up 5 pounds in less than 20 days. Maybe a pound or two is attributed to water, but 4 pounds in under 20 days is really amazing. The X-factor hasnt kicked in yet I think but I was one of the first to notice DOMS. I started noticing heavier DOSM within day 7-8. Maybe it's the blend of Drive that gives it that kick start. All I know is that it's day 20 right now and My legs and traps are burning like there's no tomorrow.
    drive alone can give you an amazing transformation
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    PS- the naringin from the Drive and RPM also prevents the breakdown of AA by cytochrome p450, which is especially active in the AA pathway....



    CYTOCHROME P450

    Cytochrome P450, the microsomal enzyme complex participating in drug metabolism, may also act on endogenous arachidonic acid, catalyzing its conversion into epoxy-eicosatrienoic acids (EETs). The epoxide ring of these EETs may be cleaved by the action of epoxide hydrolases, to yield the corresponding vicinal diols. In addition, cytochrome P450 has been shown to produce a family of HETEs by hydroxylation (monooxygenation) of arachidonic acid.
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycste View Post
    ur the lucky one my stack gives me the shhiittts



    drive alone can give you an amazing transformation
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    PS- the naringin from the Drive and RPM also prevents the breakdown of AA by cytochrome p450, which is especially active in the AA pathway....



    CYTOCHROME P450

    Cytochrome P450, the microsomal enzyme complex participating in drug metabolism, may also act on endogenous arachidonic acid, catalyzing its conversion into epoxy-eicosatrienoic acids (EETs). The epoxide ring of these EETs may be cleaved by the action of epoxide hydrolases, to yield the corresponding vicinal diols. In addition, cytochrome P450 has been shown to produce a family of HETEs by hydroxylation (monooxygenation) of arachidonic acid.
    alright grapefruit gonna start that back up. good find didnt know this. !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    I dont know dirk, Im up 5 pounds in less than 20 days. Maybe a pound or two is attributed to water, but 4 pounds in under 20 days is really amazing. The X-factor hasnt kicked in yet I think but I was one of the first to notice DOMS. I started noticing heavier DOSM within day 7-8. Maybe it's the blend of Drive that gives it that kick start. All I know is that it's day 20 right now and My legs and traps are burning like there's no tomorrow.
    4 lbs. in 20 days is no joke!! But it does not surprise me a bit- I have been researching this pathway and its interaction with cAMP and sTAR for some time now, and it is very intriguing from an anabolic standpoint
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycste View Post
    ur the lucky one my stack gives me the shhiittts



    drive alone can give you an amazing transformation
    gotta start slow and work your way up- happens to about 1 in 10 people....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    gotta start slow and work your way up- happens to about 1 in 10 people....
    do we know what it is? anything i can take to help prevent this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycste View Post
    do we know what it is? anything i can take to help prevent this?
    Just make sure your complex carb and water intakes are pretty high, and your saturated fat intake is fairly low- Drive tends to be fairly unforgiving when your diet is not clean, at least at first
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Just make sure your complex carb and water intakes are pretty high, and your saturated fat intake is fairly low- Drive tends to be fairly unforgiving when your diet is not clean, at least at first
    i was referring to poseidon, sorry for confusion
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycste View Post
    i was referring to poseidon, sorry for confusion
    no worries
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    4 lbs. in 20 days is no joke!! But it does not surprise me a bit- I have been researching this pathway and its interaction with cAMP and sTAR for some time now, and it is very intriguing from an anabolic standpoint
    did i mention Im leaning out at the same time? The only thing that I think AN is missing in terms of a blend of supplements for your all in one needed supplements is a cortisol blocker of some sort. Ive noticed some fairly nice leaning out effects on the upper abdominals as well as everywhere else. It's not intense melt off fat lost but i have noticed it. All of this while on a clean bulk. The clean diet part was attributed to the X-Factor.

    because of my diet my abs are starting to appear agian slightly and im gaining weight at the same time. The only thing that bugs me is that my cortisol doesnt seem to have budged. Ive taken X-lean with some nice results but having a AN cortisol blocker with some other benefits would be cool. You should make it happen.
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    Somehow, I just cannot get over the conceptual and actual inflammatory sides of AA. I always see AA supplements from that perspective, and may not overcome this perspective enough to try any AA supplement. I know this is a minority opinion, but that's the way I see it. Glad to know a lot of others are happy with AA supplements, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    did i mention Im leaning out at the same time? The only thing that I think AN is missing in terms of a blend of supplements for your all in one needed supplements is a cortisol blocker of some sort. Ive noticed some fairly nice leaning out effects on the upper abdominals as well as everywhere else. It's not intense melt off fat lost but i have noticed it. All of this while on a clean bulk. The clean diet part was attributed to the X-Factor.

    because of my diet my abs are starting to appear agian slightly and im gaining weight at the same time. The only thing that bugs me is that my cortisol doesnt seem to have budged. Ive taken X-lean with some nice results but having a AN cortisol blocker with some other benefits would be cool. You should make it happen.

    Icariin is a cortisol antagonist- as well as cissus (in Osteo-C)


    Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2005 Dec;82(4):686-94. Epub 2005 Dec 27.Click here to read Links
    Antidepressant-like effect of icariin and its possible mechanism in mice.
    Pan Y, Kong L, Xia X, Zhang W, Xia Z, Jiang F.

    State Key Laboratory of Pharmaceutical Biotechnology, Immunobiological Laboratory, Institute of Functional Biomolecule, Nanjing University, PR China.

    The behavioral, neurochemical and neuroendocrine effects of icariin isolated from Epimedium brevicornum were investigated in behavioral despair models of KunMing strain of male mice. Icariin was found to significantly shorten immobility time in the forced swimming test (FST) after orally administration for 21 consecutive days. Icarrin also produced a marked reduction in immobility time in the tail suspension test (TST) when administered for at least 7 consecutive days. The preferable antidepressant action by icariin was obtained at 17.5 and 35 mg/kg in the present study. Moreover, it was observed that the stress of FST exposure induced increases in brain monoamine oxidase (MAO) A and B activities, serum corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) levels, as well as decreases in brain monoamine neurotransmitter levels. Treatment of icariin for 21 consecutive days mainly reversed the above effects in the mouse FST. These results suggested that icarrin possessed potent antidepressant-like properties that were mediated via neurochemical and neuroendocrine systems.

    Biol Pharm Bull. 2006 Dec;29(12):2399-403.Click here to read Links
    Effects of icariin on hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis action and cytokine levels in stressed Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Pan Y, Zhang WY, Xia X, Kong LD.

    State Key Laboratory of Pharmaceutical Biotechnology, Nanjing University, China.

    Icariin is one of the major active flavonoids constituents of Epimedium brevicornum MAXIM (Berberidaceae). Icariin and E. brevicornum have a wide range of pharmacological activities. Abnormality in the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis is considered to be a key neurobilogical factor in major depression, and cytokines have a close relationship with the activation of the HPA axis. In the present study, the aim was to determine whether icariin possesses an antidepressant-like activity, and to explore the effects of icariin on the HPA axis and cytokine levels in chronic mild stress (CMS) model of depression in Sprague-Dawley rats. Icariin significantly increased the sucrose intake of CMS-treated rats from week 3. It not only attenuated the CMS-induced increases in serum corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) and cortisol levels, but also reversed the abnormal levels of serum interleukin-6 (IL-6) and tumor-necrosis-factor alpha (TNF-alpha) to the normal in the stressed rats. These results suggested that icariin possessed an antidepressant-like property that was at least in part mediated by neuroendocrine and immune systems.


    Vitamin C has some strong IL-6 (a marker of cortisol production and stress) inhibiting effects as well.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Somehow, I just cannot get over the conceptual and actual inflammatory sides of AA. I always see AA supplements from that perspective, and may not overcome this perspective enough to try any AA supplement. I know this is a minority opinion, but that's the way I see it. Glad to know a lot of others are happy with AA supplements, though.
    I don't like some of the sides (aching joints, tiredness, etc.)- but the pathway is interesting- and it has the potential to really maximize gains along with Drive and RPM- so I guess you have to pick the lesser of two evils
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Icariin is a cortisol antagonist- as well as cissus (in Osteo-C)


    Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2005 Dec;82(4):686-94. Epub 2005 Dec 27.Click here to read Links
    Antidepressant-like effect of icariin and its possible mechanism in mice.
    Pan Y, Kong L, Xia X, Zhang W, Xia Z, Jiang F.

    State Key Laboratory of Pharmaceutical Biotechnology, Immunobiological Laboratory, Institute of Functional Biomolecule, Nanjing University, PR China.

    The behavioral, neurochemical and neuroendocrine effects of icariin isolated from Epimedium brevicornum were investigated in behavioral despair models of KunMing strain of male mice. Icariin was found to significantly shorten immobility time in the forced swimming test (FST) after orally administration for 21 consecutive days. Icarrin also produced a marked reduction in immobility time in the tail suspension test (TST) when administered for at least 7 consecutive days. The preferable antidepressant action by icariin was obtained at 17.5 and 35 mg/kg in the present study. Moreover, it was observed that the stress of FST exposure induced increases in brain monoamine oxidase (MAO) A and B activities, serum corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) levels, as well as decreases in brain monoamine neurotransmitter levels. Treatment of icariin for 21 consecutive days mainly reversed the above effects in the mouse FST. These results suggested that icarrin possessed potent antidepressant-like properties that were mediated via neurochemical and neuroendocrine systems.

    Biol Pharm Bull. 2006 Dec;29(12):2399-403.Click here to read Links
    Effects of icariin on hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis action and cytokine levels in stressed Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Pan Y, Zhang WY, Xia X, Kong LD.

    State Key Laboratory of Pharmaceutical Biotechnology, Nanjing University, China.

    Icariin is one of the major active flavonoids constituents of Epimedium brevicornum MAXIM (Berberidaceae). Icariin and E. brevicornum have a wide range of pharmacological activities. Abnormality in the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis is considered to be a key neurobilogical factor in major depression, and cytokines have a close relationship with the activation of the HPA axis. In the present study, the aim was to determine whether icariin possesses an antidepressant-like activity, and to explore the effects of icariin on the HPA axis and cytokine levels in chronic mild stress (CMS) model of depression in Sprague-Dawley rats. Icariin significantly increased the sucrose intake of CMS-treated rats from week 3. It not only attenuated the CMS-induced increases in serum corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) and cortisol levels, but also reversed the abnormal levels of serum interleukin-6 (IL-6) and tumor-necrosis-factor alpha (TNF-alpha) to the normal in the stressed rats. These results suggested that icariin possessed an antidepressant-like property that was at least in part mediated by neuroendocrine and immune systems.


    Vitamin C has some strong IL-6 (a marker of cortisol production and stress) inhibiting effects as well.....

    haha, havent seen anything in terms of cortisol, but maybe the reason I havent noticed much is because of the fat burning on my stomach. Ill keep you updated on that part however. I have yet to try Osteo-C. Maybe ive noticed my cortisol levels to be much higher than before due to the fat burning attributed to the Drive and X-Factor. I have yet to throw in the RPM on a daily basis for the extra icariin content however. I throw RPM in there as a boost in my workout (caffeine)
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80;
    I don't like some of the sides (aching joints, tiredness, etc.)- but the pathway is interesting- and it has the potential to really maximize gains along with Drive and RPM- so I guess you have to pick the lesser of two evils
    I do not doubt the potential. I am just biased towards the negatives. While it may not be a perfect substitute, I suspect I should get respectable results from a Drive/DCP/IGF-2/Shred-XS Hardcore (or Lipo-PM) stack. RPM would be optional. No intention to divert you thread, Sir!
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I do not doubt the potential. I am just biased towards the negatives. While it may not be a perfect substitute, I suspect I should get respectable results from a Drive/DCP/IGF-2/Shred-XS Hardcore (or Lipo-PM) stack. RPM would be optional. No intention to divert you thread, Sir!
    You're fine- this is an interesting discussion
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    im having aching joints and tiredness from Drive, dont know why, but it sucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins;
    im having aching joints and tiredness from Drive, dont know why, but it sucks
    There are several possible causes for the aching joints that may not necessarily be due to Drive. If, however, you are certain it is from Drive, it would be primarily due to the Icariin. Icariin and Dodder Seed potentiate their mutual effects. Their half lives are further extended by Naringin. To fix the issue, if you are sure it is from Drive, try adding Cissus to your supplementation, and/or increase your intake of EFA.
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    yeah i plan on buying some fish oil tomorrow, i cant take cissus

    ive never had the problem before taking drive, i still love the stuff....just sucks that my elbows and wrists hurt
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    yeah i plan on buying some fish oil tomorrow, i cant take cissus

    ive never had the problem before taking drive, i still love the stuff....just sucks that my elbows and wrists hurt
    Why can't you take Cissus?

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    he has an anti inflammatory disease I believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude;
    he has an anti inflammatory disease I believe.
    You definitely meant it the other way, my friend, right?
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    yeah, he meant INflammitorty
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    I was just curious if there was a medical condition or allergic reaction to it. I hadn't heard about any issues with Cissus before. Good info and I will file it away.

    I am not afflicted by allergies or diseases, but I would hate to recommend a supplement to someone that may have something.


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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    You definitely meant it the other way, my friend, right?
    sorry, yeah I got a bit confused. thanks for the corrections
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    i was real eager to try clout when i first came out and read a lot into it, thats when i found out i couldnt take it...but its all good
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    Geez.... can I really afford to add X-Factor into this next order......................... ... LOL
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    Hmm how would just using RPM work out in this scenario? still give a push?

    and don't worry lan, you dont need to buy x-factor you just need to eat a pound of chicken liver today, you get more than enough arachidonic acid that way, plus other fine nutrients
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Hmm how would just using RPM work out in this scenario? still give a push?

    and don't worry lan, you dont need to buy x-factor you just need to eat a pound of chicken liver today, you get more than enough arachidonic acid that way, plus other fine nutrients
    haha it's gotta be raw too . choke them things down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Hmm how would just using RPM work out in this scenario? still give a push?

    and don't worry lan, you dont need to buy x-factor you just need to eat a pound of chicken liver today, you get more than enough arachidonic acid that way, plus other fine nutrients
    You raise a valid point........ do breaded and fried livers count? lol

    RPM would have benefit, but I think it's the formulation of Drive that would be the better of the 2 to run alone w/ X-Factor if you were going to choose one or the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post
    You raise a valid point........ do breaded and fried livers count? lol

    RPM would have benefit, but I think it's the formulation of Drive that would be the better of the 2 to run alone w/ X-Factor if you were going to choose one or the other.
    yup yup, have to agree. I checked my weight as of yesterday, 21 days up 3 pounds not including water weight. When X-Factor kicks in, sh1t haha I get the feeling maybe 10 pounds of mass on this cycle with leaning out.
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    no, not breaded, just pan fried with onions + peppers over spinach.

    I don't think i'm allowed to add drive in with this xfactor/superdrol ng log. I ought to beg jjohn
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    I think adding drive into superdrol NG would be sick. I needed a pick me up booster the other day, chucked in some superdrolNG. gave me some stomach issues for 5-10 minutes in the middle of my workout but afterwards I had some pretty nice energy. Adding Drive into X-Factor along with superdrol NG would make sick stack. You basically have everything covered. Although adding drive in might make it hard to distinguish results from superdrol NG but as far as the X-Factor and Drive go, you should be able to distinguish the two.
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    woah!
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