FINAFLEX presents....

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    i'll not respond to your silliness and self-amused disparagement of our company any further
    carry on with your fine representation of your company in other company promo threads, sir
    oh, so you have no response for the part in your write up that says your product boost test by reducing aromatizing androgens (this is androstenedione/testosterone) and there by reducing estrogen which will in turn increase androgens?

    Quote Originally Posted by finaflex rep
    "This naturally occurring ingredient found in this plant can help you reduce the circulating androgens in the body that can convert into estrogen.
    Higher estrogen level means lower testosterone production in the human body.
    So, thereby reducing the estrogen levels in your body, you can maximize your naturally occurring testosterone levels."
    something sounds fishy about this product, aside from the studies done on trout being extrapolated (took that from the article ) to coincide with humans.
    cause 11-keto-testosterone is a powerful androgen for fish, and a full blown steroid, but we all know how well that works in humans for muscle growth.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by g0hardorgohom View Post
    I don't understand damn thing about that write-up but if it is from Finaflex, it's worth trying. I'll log this on April during PCT (been on for over 7 months by then so good PCT protocol will be needed).
    On for 7 months?? I'm extremely new here but isn't that way way to long??
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    oh, so you have no response for the part in your write up that says your product boost test by reducing aromatizing androgens (this is androstenedione/testosterone) and there by reducing estrogen which will in turn increase androgens?
    That portion of the writeup was intended to show how the compound has the ability to act as an aromatase inhibitor, not how it can "boost test" by "lowering test". You're trying to read between the lines.

    Years ago, when I joined this forum, I thought there was some merit to your posts. After maturing a bit, and gaining my own fair share of knowledge, I realize that you are just a misguided trainer who sells medicine ball push-ups to old ladies and wishes halodrol was sold in vending machines.

    I'm not sure who all reps for SNS, but I'll tell you that if it weren't for NomZ and aaronuconn, you and rhadam could run that fine company into the ground with your half-ass logs and horrible attitudes.

    While you're going through your "to-do" list and checking the blocks on companies you can try to throw under the bus, make sure to thank HV and PA for all the knowledge you've leeched from the droppings of their coat tails in lieu of doing your own research.

    Although you seemed like an alright guy to me, now you just come across as an arrogant prick with no better agenda than one that tries to blow out other candles so yours will burn seemingly brighter. Are you so unhappy with your own current situation that you must try to highlight the perceived faults of others to make your smile wider?

    Thanks for your input though, it's greatly appreciated.

  4. Weee! Bring on the gains!
    Use Code Montego15 for 15% off at milehighkratom.com

  5. So in short.

    Decease in estrogen.
    Increased testosterone production.
    Increased protein synthesis.
    Deceased protein waste.

    Yeeeep. Ill have three bottles please.
    Use Code Montego15 for 15% off at milehighkratom.com
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  6. bahahaa someone just sent this to me via e-mail

    if you guys ever wondered what some of these so-called self-professed "experts" of supplement understanding on these forums look like irl, check this one out...



    well, he knows how to read the label (kind of anyway)
    pay special attention to ~2:15 in, where he gives up on pronounciation because there are a lot of "big words"
    now I know why he didn't read our promo in depth however, and simply latched on to some bastardized form of his own understanding...

    welcome to your guru who critiques all other products on market, except for the company he reps for
    ingenious

  7. anyway....back to the thread at hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    So in short.

    Decease in estrogen.
    Increased testosterone production.
    Increased protein synthesis.
    Deceased protein waste.

    Yeeeep. Ill have three bottles please.
    precisely, young grass shopper

  8. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    bahahaa someone just sent this to me via e-mail if you guys ever wondered what some of these so-called self-professed "experts" of supplement understanding on these forums look like irl, check this one out... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP27EixXiXM&feature=yo utu.be">YouTube Link</a> well, he knows how to read the label (kind of anyway) pay special attention to ~2:15 in, where he gives up on pronounciation because there are a lot of "big words" now I know why he didn't read our promo in depth however, and simply latched on to some bastardized form of his own understanding... welcome to your guru who critiques all other products on market, except for the company he reps for ingenious
    Lmfao. It does sound fancy. Wtf. I'm not smart , or experienced enough , or hell qualified to make a statement in regards to the science of anything. But what happened to " don't knock it till u try it" if this dude is so sure it's not a good thing y waste his time crying about it. But I'm excited to try it out , and form a real opinion. :-)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    That portion of the writeup was intended to show how the compound has the ability to act as an aromatase inhibitor, not how it can "boost test" by "lowering test". You're trying to read between the lines.

    Years ago, when I joined this forum, I thought there was some merit to your posts. After maturing a bit, and gaining my own fair share of knowledge, I realize that you are just a misguided trainer who sells medicine ball push-ups to old ladies and wishes halodrol was sold in vending machines.

    I'm not sure who all reps for SNS, but I'll tell you that if it weren't for NomZ and aaronuconn, you and rhadam could run that fine company into the ground with your half-ass logs and horrible attitudes.

    While you're going through your "to-do" list and checking the blocks on companies you can try to throw under the bus, make sure to thank HV and PA for all the knowledge you've leeched from the droppings of their coat tails in lieu of doing your own research.

    Although you seemed like an alright guy to me, now you just come across as an arrogant prick with no better agenda than one that tries to blow out other candles so yours will burn seemingly brighter. Are you so unhappy with your own current situation that you must try to highlight the perceived faults of others to make your smile wider?

    Thanks for your input though, it's greatly appreciated.
    interesting point of view, I can respect that.
    but it seems you guys have to use sns as a scapegoat vs talking to me as a consumer. no where did I bring sns or it's products into this thread. now if I had said, "lame, buy sns xxxx product instead" now that would of been bringing sns into the mix.

    this seems to be a problem with companies on here. when rep gets into a disagreement with a rep from another company of a product, I don't start attacking the company saying, bla bla bla. (though im sure there are those that do this)

    now, if someone wants to address this post in the write up, instead of attacking me or sns, that'd be great, cause this isn't bodybuilding dot come, and we are allowed to share our opinions regardless of who we rep for.

    Quote Originally Posted by finaflex rep
    "This naturally occurring ingredient found in this plant can help you reduce the circulating androgens in the body that can convert into estrogen. "

  10. Quote Originally Posted by gymwrenchwv View Post
    On for 7 months?? I'm extremely new here but isn't that way way to long??
    No, I have "cruised" between "blasts" and I haven't taken too much orals... Original plan was to PCT after 4 months though but I decided to extend it because of an interesting powerlifting meet.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    bahahaa someone just sent this to me via e-mail

    if you guys ever wondered what some of these so-called self-professed "experts" of supplement understanding on these forums look like irl, check this one out...



    well, he knows how to read the label (kind of anyway)
    pay special attention to ~2:15 in, where he gives up on pronounciation because there are a lot of "big words"
    now I know why he didn't read our promo in depth however, and simply latched on to some bastardized form of his own understanding...

    welcome to your guru who critiques all other products on market, except for the company he reps for
    ingenious
    If I was to post a log of sns products, or reviews on them, there is a conflict of intrest here. no matter how much I like a sns product, I'm still a rep for them, and that takes some of the merit away from that.

    man, you guys are so classy, whats up with this? I cant help but laugh, really? what does anything I do have to do with the ingredients in question or the product?

    why cant you just discuss the ingredients in the product? I don't care that you post my videos. go for it. thanks.
    but come on, at least answer the question.

    I am no guru, nor have I ever said, or implied such.

    now, dan duchaine, he was a steroid guru, and author of "underground steroid handbook", but im sure (according to your standards) he doesn't know anything about what he's saying. just look at him?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    bahahaa someone just sent this to me via e-mail

    if you guys ever wondered what some of these so-called self-professed "experts" of supplement understanding on these forums look like irl, check this one out...

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP27EixXiXM&feature=yo utu.be">YouTube Link</a>

    well, he knows how to read the label (kind of anyway)
    pay special attention to ~2:15 in, where he gives up on pronounciation because there are a lot of "big words"
    now I know why he didn't read our promo in depth however, and simply latched on to some bastardized form of his own understanding...

    welcome to your guru who critiques all other products on market, except for the company he reps for
    ingenious
    I can see why enhanced was taken off the market!

  13. here's what I got from the article, which I read entirely, I'll post the points I posted earlier, as it seems during the personal attacks on me, they got lost.

    new dshea compliant aromatase inhibitor that lowers circulating androgens, and invitro studies on the compound (these are done in a petree dish)
    new m something acid that has been shown to be significantly anabolic in fish (trout specifically) and in vivo studies (test done on actual subjects)

    new m something acid also has greater oral bioavailability than ursolic acid.

    what did I miss (if you could be mature an point it out instead of acting all childish)

  14. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    why cant you just discuss the ingredients in the product?
    we have
    it is not my fault that you don't read it, or understand it for that matter
    you come in here barking offensively and denigrating something you don't understand, why is it my job to console you and attempt to go above & beyond, to attempt to give you education you are sorely in need of?
    I think you have a very warped sense of reality, sir

    we are all about education here at FINAFLEX..
    unfortunately, not everyone who says they are here simply for education, can be taken at face value
    it is sad, yes

    but to reiterate, and attempt once more to help you grasp things:
    jbry, do you even understand the concept of an aromatase inhibition?

    more info -- from third party source at that, nothing to do with any body or division of FINAFLEX company:

    Story of Brassaiopsis glomerulata



    Brassaiopsisglomerulatais a member of the Araliaceae that occurs in south and southeast Asia. B. glomerulata is a large shrub or small tree with thorns on the stems, palmate leaves with 5–7 leaflets. [1]

    This species has several reported traditional medicinal uses. [2] In Vietnam, the plant is used to treat rheumatism and back pain. In India, a group of indigenous tribes called the Nagas drank a juice extract of Brassaiopsis glomerulata bark to aid in digestion and to alleviate constipation. The Nagas also used a paste of the bark of Brassaiopsis glomerulata to treat bone fractures and sprains. This species is also used medicinally in China as one of several kinds of “tongcao”, which means unblocking herbs used to promote urination and assist in lactation. Owing to its use as a “tongcao”, Brassaiopsis glomerulata was then tested usingin vivo anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, and diuretic models.

    The past history of medicinal use by human populations of Brassaiopsis glomerulata may be indicative of being safe when consumed. With the development of modern science, the strong aromatase inhibition of Brassaiopsis glomerulata extract was discovered by both enzyme- and cell-based assays, coupled with the possibility of a favorable safety profile, which both point to the potential for use of Brassaiopsis glomerulata for the hormone modulation.

    Extractof Brassaiopsis glomerulata

    Interested by the traditional use and novel discovery of Brassaiopsis glomerulata, several researchers investigate the components of it. Its compositions are mainly: [3]
    • Acankoreoside A
    • 3α-hydroxy-lup-20(29)-en-23,28-dioic acid
    • 3α,11α-dihydroxy-23-oxo-lup-20(29)-en-28-oic acid
    • Stigmasterol, 6β-hydroxystimasta-4-en-3-one, 7β-hydroxy-4,22-stigmastadien-3-one
    • N-benzoyl-L-phenylalaninyl-N-benzoyl-L-phenylalaninate, N-acetyl-L-phenylalaninyl-N-benzoyl-L-phenylalaninate, and N-benzoyl-L-phenylalanine methyl ester
    • Spinasterone and spinasterol
    • Oleanolic acid
    • (−)-dihydroactinidiolide
    • (−)-dehydrololiolide
    • 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde
    • Linoleic acid (fatty acid)

    Because little was known about the components of Brassaiopsis glomerulata, American researchers subjected it to examination [2]. They discovered that extracts of Brassaiopsis glomerulata leaves have an anti-oestrogenic effect. They isolated the ingredients in the extract and determined the anti-oestrogenic effect of each one. The researchers looked at whether the compounds could inhibit the aromatase that converting androstenedione into female hormones in test tubes trials, and whether they inhibited the conversion in live human cells. The researchers tested the plant ingredients at a concentration of 20ug/ml and meanwhile researchers compared their anti-oestrogenic effect with standard aromatase inhibitors: cytadren (AG) and letrozole (LET).

    As the right figure show, the researchers isolated 13 compounds. Among them:



    showed the most significant aromatase inhibition properties. (−)-dehydrololiolide was found to be as effective as Letrozole, which is approved by FDA as non-steroidal aromatase inhibitor.



    Aromatase Inhibition: a Favorable Property for Anabolism

    As mentioned above, the attractive effect of Brassaiopsis glomerulata extract is due to its aromatase inhibition property. Aromatase is the enzyme responsible for catalyzing the last steps of biosynthesis of estrogens (estrone and estradiol) from androgens (androstenedione and testosterone). Inhibition of aromatase has been shown to reduce estrogen production throughout the body to nearly undetectable levels. [4]

    Bodybuilders that take anabolic ingredients often use aromatase inhibitors in order to minimize or avoid estrogenic effects. Aromatase inhibitors can prevent elevated levels of testosterone from being converted to excess estrogen and have also been shown to reverse age-related decline in testosterone.

    Reference

    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassaiopsis_glomerulata

    2. Marcy J. Balunasa,b,d, Bin Sub, et. al. Isolation and Characterization of Aromatase Inhibitors from Brassaiopsis glomerulata (Araliaceae). Phytochem Lett. 2009 February 19; 2(1): 29–33.

    3. http://examine.com/supplements/Brass...s+glomerulata/

    4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase
    hope this helps

    as for any mention of you being with SNS -- oh I do not criticize the company in any way shape or form
    me personally, I can wonder all I want about why they would have someone such as yourself as a rep
    bottom line tho: it is not my business
    what I do find amusing is that you spend such extraordinary amount of time in other company logs/threads/promos, with constant critiques and sideways remarks -- unless, it's someone you are "cool with", or a company that has some affiliation or working agreement with SNS (ie, PES)

    in any event, best to you on (hopefully) your continued evolution of perspective on reality

  15. it doesn't address the statement of the compound lowering circulating androgens.

    aromatase inhibition and decreasing androgens are two different subjects.

  16. @jbryand101b

    The only reason I addressed the fact that you rep for SNS is because the first thing you posted on here was "lame". Although I get that it was an attempt at sarcasm, you continued to "troll", as you would have it and my statement regarding your position, and not your company, was in response to your coming into this thread with a poor attitude, initially. I did not attack SNS, nor will I. That is not in my nature.

    I addressed the emboldened portion of your text/quote and told you what the intent of the statement was. I'm not sure what further questions, regarding that small excerpt, there could be to answer. It was stated earlier in the writeup how it's been shown to demonstrate its potential as an aromatase inhibitor (AI). What is the purpose and mechanism of an AI? Doesn't it inhibit the enzyme "aromatase" thereby lowering the amount of circulating androgens that may be aromatized from T to E? So maybe the wording seems a little confusing initially?

    You've plainly stated that you are not normally a consumer (in the sense that you are using the word) and that most of your products are free. If this is really a consumer question and not just a futile attempt at poking holes in a writeup, then I can respect that for all that it is worth.

    Again, this is not a rep war, nor do I intend it to be.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    it doesn't address the statement of the compound lowering circulating androgens.

    aromatase inhibition and decreasing androgens are two different subjects.
    If you embolden the words following what you continue to embolden, you'll see that it says "that can convert..."
    This is the role of an AI. It's not "lowering the number of circulating androgens", it is, in fact, lowering the number of circulating androgens THAT CAN CONVERT.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    If you embolden the words following what you continue to embolden, you'll see that it says "that can convert..."
    This is the role of an AI. It's not "lowering the number of circulating androgens", it is, in fact, lowering the number of circulating androgens THAT CAN CONVERT.
    so I could be misunderstanding, as to me it sounds like it is lowering circulating aromatizable androgens, (these are androstenedione, and testosterone) that can convert into estrogen. (because if you lower the number of aromatizable androgens, you would over all lower the amount of androgens that can convert into testosterone (aka androstenedion/andro-diol) an thereby lower total testosterone production. (unless it also increased production of andro-diol)

    but are you meaning to say it doesn't have any effect on circulating androstenedione/testosterone, and instead lowers the number of circulating aromatase, as that is the role of an aromatase inhibitor, to inhibit aromatase, not lower aromatizable circulating androgens?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    @jbryand101b

    The only reason I addressed the fact that you rep for SNS is because the first thing you posted on here was "lame". Although I get that it was an attempt at sarcasm, you continued to "troll", as you would have it and my statement regarding your position, and not your company, was in response to your coming into this thread with a poor attitude, initially. I did not attack SNS, nor will I. That is not in my nature.

    I addressed the emboldened portion of your text/quote and told you what the intent of the statement was. I'm not sure what further questions, regarding that small excerpt, there could be to answer. It was stated earlier in the writeup how it's been shown to demonstrate its potential as an aromatase inhibitor (AI). What is the purpose and mechanism of an AI? Doesn't it inhibit the enzyme "aromatase" thereby lowering the amount of circulating androgens that may be aromatized from T to E? So maybe the wording seems a little confusing initially?

    You've plainly stated that you are not normally a consumer (in the sense that you are using the word) and that most of your products are free. If this is really a consumer question and not just a futile attempt at poking holes in a writeup, then I can respect that for all that it is worth.

    Again, this is not a rep war, nor do I intend it to be.
    an aromatase inhibitor does not have any lowering effect on circulating androgens, it would be the opposite, aromatase will lower the amount of circulating aromatizable androgens.

    so it seems it is just a simple miswording, which is what I knew all along, but can admit I went about addressing it in all the wrong way.

    you cant increase circulating testosterone by lowering androgens, unless it was able to lower androstenedione, and instead increase androstenediol (which is incapable of aromatization)

    the ai properties of the new compound would increase circulating androgens by lowering the amound of circulating aromatase. <-- I think this is what it was supposed to say.

  20. How many mgs of brassaiopsis glomerulata in Mass 550?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    so I could be misunderstanding, as to me it sounds like it is lowering circulating aromatizable androgens, (these are androstenedione, and testosterone) that can convert into estrogen. but are you meaning to say it doesn't have any effect on circulating androstenedione/testosterone, and instead lowers the number of circulating aromatase, as that is the role of an aromatase inhibitor, to inhibit aromatase, not lower aromatizable circulating androgens?
    Although the wording in the research citation and the company representation of the findings differ slightly, they allude to the same conclusion. It seems somewhat confusing, and I see where you are coming from with the company representation of the findings not specifically addressing "aromatase". However, after reading both, my conclusion is that it is an AI, and that it's not "lowering the number of circulating androgens", but "lowering the number of circulating androgens that can convert" by way of aromatase inhibition. The number, or amount of circulating aromatase is unchanged (if my memory serves me correct), but it is inhibited, or "kept busy".

  22. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    Although the wording in the research citation and the company representation of the findings differ slightly, they allude to the same conclusion. It seems somewhat confusing, and I see where you are coming from with the company representation of the findings not specifically addressing "aromatase". However, after reason both, my conclusion is that it is an AI, and that it's not "lowering the number of circulating androgens", but "lowering the number of circulating androgens that can convert" by way of aromatase inhibition. The number, or amount of circulating aromatase is unchanged (if my memory serves me correct), but it is inhibited, or "kept busy".
    okay, I got what you're saying. it's easier for me to think of it as lowering the amount of active free aromatase, and in doing so, increases the amount of circulating androgens.

    the fact of it being an aromatase inhibitor wasn't imo ever questioned.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by koi1214 View Post
    How many mgs of brassaiopsis glomerulata in Mass 550?
    coming soon!
    we will just discuss the specific components at this time
    label will be released when we get closer to launch

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    an aromatase inhibitor does not have any lowering effect on circulating androgens, it would be the opposite, aromatase will lower the amount of circulating aromatizable androgens.
    Correct. As I stated in my previous post, it is not lowering the number of circulating androgens at all. It is lowering the amount than CAN CONVERT by inhibiting aromatase.

    If we assign a number value to each it will be easier to see how each wording arrangement is sensible.

    Aromatase=10
    Androgens=100

    If for every 1 aromatase enzyme you lose through conversion 1 androgen to E you would have 90 androgens remaining.

    If you inhibit aromatase, you now have 100 free circulating androgens that cannot convert. By inhibiting the aromatase enzyme you have lowered the number of circulating androgens that can convert (a number value of 10, in this case), or you have maximized the number of free circulating androgens that will not convert. Make sense?

  25. Sounds yummy. I volunteer as tribute.
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/226478-country-gets-huge.html#post3905023
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